The Cradle Series - Will Wight [January 2, 2022]

[Soo]

Yah! Plato's cave is a good example.

Cradle is one of the series I'll go on a spree reading with a few other books thrown in between. XD

[Nirkatze]

Soo wrote: "Re message 64: Had to go back & read what I wrote. Ha!"
Really nice expansion! I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

Narilka wrote: "Oh. a little like Plato's cave. That makes a lot of sense actually."
And love that summary description too!

I'm in for book two! Not starting until Feb though--I overbooked myself on BRs for the rest of the month. :)

[Paula]

Im also in for book 2 now that i finished rereading this one (I read until book 3 but as i have forgotten most of this book ill bet i have forgotten most of the others so im glad for this reread)
(view spoiler)[I forgot how hilarius were the ploys Lindon used to overcome difficult situations. I espcially liked when he tricked the student to give him a ride to the Glorius school. It was also funny when Whitehall kept telling Lindon he wasnt an unsouled beacuse his reaction time, body that would have been destroyed...and Lindon was listing in his head the why all that happened

I agree with what most of you have said: Suriel chose craddle because of her friend and then saw that some outside force was going to go into craddle so she saw that area and was interested in Lindon (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

@Paula, well when you are at a disadvantage like Lindon is, everything helps :D

[Rob]

book buddyread link Feb 1st

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Choko]

I am in for the duration of the series, barring something I can't help...

[Fazila]

Ok, I am still going slow. I'm on Chapter 7 at the moment.

Asian inspired, liking Lindon so far. He is clearly looking to prove himself and find ways to do so. I was surprised when (view spoiler)[Lindon managed to defeat the tree Remnant, while being unsouled. Guess he is good at using scripts.

Also, I am thinking Suriel is from another world that oversees the rest of it?

I will have to go back and reread the rules and laws regarding the gaining of power and advancing to different stages/levels. Because right now, most of the details have gone over my head.

I like the setting, pacing and the characters and interested in seeing where Lindon is planning to go on his journey to carve his own path. (hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

What do you think about Lindon's village and his family?

[Nyssa]

I'm hoping to finish this by tomorrow, Thursday at the latest. I've been avoiding the thread so as not to stumble upon any spoilers.

I have to say, though, that I hate bullies and this whole system seems set up for one group to have full reign and support in bullying another. The fact that they draw the line on how "low" their opponent can be for it to be "honorable" still does not make it so.

In the beginning, I thought I was frustrated with Lindon, but no, it's this whole Valley and their skewed honor system.

[Nirkatze]

Good point, @Nyssa. A culture with a hierarchy based on strength is fertile ground for bullies.

[Tammie]

Nyssa wrote: "I'm hoping to finish this by tomorrow, Thursday at the latest. I've been avoiding the thread so as not to stumble upon any spoilers.

I have to say, though, that I hate bullies and this whole syst..."

I got frustrated with the honor thing too.

[Fazila]

The village and his family has interesting ideas about success. The whole thing about power coming from progressing to higher levels and those who don't have the natural affinity for it are shunned and treated badly reminded me of how much value some societies and cultures place on education, career and all in real world. In Asian cultures there is a higher value placed on these aspects. Being Indian I have seen a version of this in our culture and it felt familiar. The respect thing, honor is also quite similar in certain families.

[Nyssa]

I just completed the book within the last hour.

My thoughts are summed up in my review. I will certainly be continuing the series.

@Nirkatze - Thank you for the explanation in message #35 and liked your insights on Chapter 11 in message #50. I agree w/ Soo in message #53. *Smile*

@Soo - I appreciated the examples of Progression vs Cultivation in message #46

@Miche and Soo - I agree with the thoughts and conversation from messages #63 -#66

After scanning a few other comments, I realize I'm a bit in the minority with one aspect - I did not find the first 9 chapters boring. I chalked it all up to world-building and trying to get to know/understand that characters.

Chapters 10 & 11 were definitely the turning points, however, and the story became more .. fun.. for lack of a better word.

I admit I was a bit confused about Whitehall at the end; (view spoiler)[I'm still not sure what happened to his Remnant (hide spoiler)]

The epilogue did answer something that I had been wondering about throughout the entire book - (view spoiler)[I thought Lindon's destiny was to create a path for the Unsouled. But no, it is to show that there really is no "unsouled". They have the equivalent of a learning disability, but with the right accommodations, they too can come into their own. (hide spoiler)]

[Fazila]

I love how Lindon is not letting his lack of power rule his life and is always trying to improve himself. He also is quite crafty when it comes to making things work and finding solutions to problems. I loved how he uses his brain and while everyone else is focused on their power he is always trying to get the upper hand by being clever. Loving the scene (view spoiler)[With Amon and with Elder Whitehall. I wonder what he plans to take from the school? Also is the Gold Patriarch going to be coming back? Seemed like we were getting a villain (hide spoiler)].

Learned a lot of new things from all of you guys. Didn't know about LitRPG or progression or cultivation. I will be doing more research on these to get a better understanding of these. Also haven't watched or read any manga so cannot say I am familiar with how the story is similar in that regard. @Nirkatze You always have interesting details and info to add when it comes to books we read. Love reading about them!

@Soo I think when it comes to championing the MC, it's easier to do so with Lindon as he is not just an underdog, but also because he is driven, has a good head on his shoulders, always looking to improve himself and learn more. He has hunger for knowledge but his circumstances do not let him succeed, yet despite all of that he is clever enough to forge his own path or atleast attempt to do so anyways.

I feel this one is a YA/NA. The themes are similar to YA, not dark enough or mature themes to categorize it into adult, IMO. Younger MC/protagonist, coming-of-age, gaining new powers, going on a quest/adventure etc, plot progression all make it feel like YA/NA to me.

[Jenna, I'd be free if not for Temper & Edgewalker]

I finished! I was going to comment a number of times throughout the read, but I felt like every time I stopped by this thread, I had 50 more messages to read! Finally read through them all, and I really loved reading through everyone's thoughts. I've never read any Cultivation or LitRPG before, so it's been fascinating to hear the difference. Does anyone have any good beginner's LitRPG to try to compare to Unsouled?

I also enjoyed the first part more than the last third of the book @Choko. I thought the beginning had a good setup for the worldbuilding and I always love learning about a new fantasy world.

Overall, I enjoyed it, but I wasn't amazed by the book. I can see a lot has been set up for the rest of the series, so I'm still excited for book two!

[Chris]

I started yesterday, after a delay due to normal...

Read about 10%, three or four chapters in. I like the narrative flow and the worldbuilding so far.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I recommend Threadbare to everyone, whether they’re LitRPG fans or not… good intro, 90% cute, 10% dark, lots of fun, and stats matter… about a sentient teddybear golem and the adventure he goes on… the scope of his quest definitely grows… lots of trials and tribulations early on, until he gets his luck and intelligence up…

[Soo]

Woo! Nice review, Nyssa.

I had similar thoughts as Fazila about Lindon in the book. I don't mind sneaky/etc in a character.

Cultivation: Cradle is an intro to cultivation style books. It doesn't go into nitty gritty details to the point that it stalls the story. Nice blend of development across the board and forward moving plot.

One of the older works would be Musashi. Any "finding the way of the sword/martial art" or path of enlightenment of Buddha.

Progression: Any story with a core training/learning plot line is a progressive. It's about being a part of the learning process and enjoying it vs getting brief summaries.

Ditto Iain's suggestion. Stuff and Nonsense #1 has light game statistics, a different approach in main character being a stuffed bear, serious themes with dollops of humor.

Dungeon Crawler Carl #1 - Action packed, humor, dungeon instances and appropriately weird creatures/etc.

Ritualist #1 - The author has several series written in this world, but the Completionist Chronicles is my all time fav by this author. There are more game mechs in this series, but it's a grand adventure story with a quirky MC and rich world. It's based in a fantasy MMORPG setting.

Oh Great! I was Reincarnated as a Farmer #1 - A good start by a new author. There's only one book out right now, but it was a fun book based on strategy: traps and town development.

[Nyssa]

Thanks, Soo! :)

It wasn't so much that he was sneaky; it's that I got "untrustworthy" vibes from him... if that makes sense.

As someone else posted, I'm not familiar with LitRPG. Is Ritualist your suggestion for that subgenre?

[Miche]

Jenna, litrpg that I liked: Ritualist and NPCs. I didn’t read more in either series yet, but at least the starting books were fun. I enjoyed NPCs a bit more than Ritualist.

I like these kind of books for when i need something fun and quick to read.

[Soo]

Nyssa, everything starting from 'Ditto Iain's suggestion' is a LitRPG series.

Hi-5, Miche. Glad you liked those. I like most of Drew Hayes work. I didn't like NPCs that much and had to make myself finish #1. It was worth it! I enjoyed the following books a lot more and waiting for Hayes to add to the series.

[Miche]

Soo wrote: "Nyssa, everything starting from 'Ditto Iain's suggestion' is a LitRPG series.

Hi-5, Miche. Glad you liked those. I like most of Drew Hayes work. I didn't like NPCs that much and had to make mysel..."

I really enjoyed book 1 and I wasn't expecting much from it. I subscribed again to Kindle Unlimited not long ago, so I will definitely continue the series at some point. I am also keeping an eye at Audible sales for them.

[Nyssa]

Soo wrote: "Nyssa, everything starting from 'Ditto Iain's suggestion' is a LitRPG series. "

Cool!! Thank you! :)

[Soo]

You welcome! I aimed for easy to dive into for readers that like fantasy. Some of them have heavy game mechanics, but I actually like how the authors planned it to be a part of the books. When it's done well, it's not as annoying and there's always skip forward (audio) or skim by in ebook. =D

All of them are on my LitRPG Rec list.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Nyssa wrote: "Thanks, Soo! :)

It wasn't so much that he was sneaky; it's that I got "untrustworthy" vibes from him... if that makes sense.

As someone else posted, I'm not familiar with LitRPG. Is Ritualist yo..."

There's basically 3 types of LitRPGs I'm familiar with...

1) MMORPG-style: Threadbare, Ritualist, Anarchy Online and many other "online" series... take place in a digital world and either focus on a character in that world, or the main character gets to create a character/race to play/live in that world... usually MC is disabled or Earth is nigh-apocalyptic, and transplanting brain into game server is better than living in the real world...

2) Dungeons & Dragons style / Tabletop RPG: NPCs, and I'm drawing a blank right now...

3) Real World LitRPGs (world becomes an RPG, or thrust into another world with RPG rules... this is called isekai in japanese literature, I think): System Apocalype, Wandering Inn, etc...

[Nirkatze]

@Nyssa, Fazila, Jenna--so fun reading your reactions!

@Nyssa--I liked the first 9 chapters too. I didn't think they were slow paced or anything either until BAM 11 came along and whoosh went the book. On Whitehall--same question, though my memory is a little more fuzzy at this point. I also appreciate your analysis of the Unsouled condition.

@Fazila--I'm with you on Lindon--he's the type of student I'd love to have in my classes! No one in this world (except for Suriel) seem to ascribe to the "hard work is worth more than raw talent" school of thought. Also, what is NA? My brain is suggesting "near adult" but I haven't heard that before.

@Jenna--I can see what you say about enjoying but not being wowed. I think one of the things I enjoyed most about this book was just how different it was to other books I was used to reading. I also haven't read a lot of self-pub novels, so I had lowish expectations going in.

@Chris--welcome! Never too late to jump in!

@Soo, Iain, Miche--thank you for the recommendations, and also for the genre education!

@Iain--I can answer that not-quite-a-question! *waves hand enthusiastically* Those would fall under isekai, sure! 異世界, "isekai" just means "other world" in Japanese, so anything (not just RPG style stories) where a character from our world ends up in a different world counts. Escaflowne and Twelve Kingdoms are isekai, as is No Game No Life, but Sword Art Online technically isn't. That's one genre I actually know yay! XD

And thank you to all the folks who have mentioned enjoying my posts! I'm really happy to be here in this community.

[Soo]

Sword Art Online was great. Fits under LitRPG.

As for types of LitRPGs, I've read at least one book on every kind imaginable. Sadly, I'm getting more and more out of touch with the gaming stuff. Like, I didn't buy a console system last year because I knew it would gobble up days and weeks out of my life. XD

Yay for book chats!

[Nyssa]

@Soo - Thank you for the list of recommendations!

@Timelord Iain - Thank you for explaining! So, Ready Player One would be classified as MMORPG-style?

@Nirkate - Thank you for your feedback; it is appreciated. I also agree with what you said @Fazila about Lindon. Oh, and NA means "New Adult." The term came about a few years ago.

@Fazila - I like your take on Lindon in message #164.  With his brain and (burgeoning brawn), it will be interesting to see how his character develops throughout the series.

[Soo]

Ready Player One is MMORPG style for the most part, but the story goes into different kinds of games from shooters to puzzles, etc.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I think RPO is closer to GameLit, a sister genre to LitRPG, that takes place in a game world, but lacks the RPG/leveling/class elements of LitRPGs?

[Soo]

Your lingo is behind the times. lol

I like LitRPG as a label. Most authors have decided to go with Gamelit to describe the genre. Gamelit is a bigger umbrella. As in any story that has game elements fits the bill.

I do distinguish LitRPG & Gamelit by stating that LitRPG will have status updates, detailed game mechanics, etc as part of the core plot.

Gamelit is the big umbrella and LitRPG fits under Gamelit's shade.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I think I got my description from you a year or 2 ago?... I'm behind the times on tons of genres... and haven't bought a console in like 10 years... I might have gotten DS 5-8 years ago?... last new new console was a PS2 in 2002?

I mostly PC game... used to be the cheaper option before consoles could get ports of cheap PC games too, in their marketplace...

[Miche]

Soo wrote: "Sword Art Online was great. Fits under LitRPG.

As for types of LitRPGs, I've read at least one book on every kind imaginable. Sadly, I'm getting more and more out of touch with the gaming stuff. ..."

I love gaming, but I get a bit addicted while doing it. Since I stopped playing the MMORPGs I have a lot more time to read.

I still play games at the Xbox and the Switch. Lately I have been playing a lot of Hades. It is super fun!

[Nirkatze]

I've heard good things about Hades! It won the Hugo award in the new Video Game Category this year (I hope they keep it), I think. And I think Brandon Sanderson dressed up as Hades for Halloween too!

I like playing games, but I never have time during the on season. I also have a problem where I never finish them. Or in the case of MMOs, go too slow to stay with the more up-to-date stuff and miss out.

@Iain, lol, I'm glad I'm not the only one with only a PS2 and PC.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I bought an XBox 360 for Skyrim in 2012ish... used and a bit older, tho... none since that and DS... altho I considered a Switch... haven't tho, since I hear the Switch lags when trying to play Disgaea 6, an exclusive title that I want to play...

[Miche]

Nirkatze wrote: "I've heard good things about Hades! It won the Hugo award in the new Video Game Category this year (I hope they keep it), I think. And I think Brandon Sanderson dressed up as Hades for Halloween to..."

Hades is awesome! Usually I am not into roguelike games, but this one made me notice I enjoy roguelite ones. I might start search for others in the same category.

I play the normal difficulty, but there is an option to make it easier with the "god mode". Once you kill the last boss for the first time there is also a great range of addon difficulties you can stack for extra bounties. The game doesn't end when you kill the last boss once. The story is still going even after a few times killing him. I am having a blast with it.

The game has beautiful graphics (even on the Switch), great dialogs, really nice music. It really deserves the hype it got.

[Soo]

Don't make me have sparkly eyes about games! I've been keeping to mobile games. So, I'm more current on mobile games than console or PC. Hades sounds like fun! Disgaea series is good. =)

[[deleted user]]

Miche wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "I've heard good things about Hades! It won the Hugo award in the new Video Game Category this year (I hope they keep it), I think. And I think Brandon Sanderson dressed up as Hades..."

I got a Switch Lite (aroud the time the Pokemon version got out) as an impulse buy but never really used it much( i have not played much of anything lately) until i got Hades.....

I always loved Supergiant Games since Bastion but they outdid themselfs this time

[Miche]

@Filipe, I will be keeping an eye for their games. That was a really well rounded game.

[Fazila]

@Soo @Timelord lain @Miche : Thank you so much guys, for all the details, explanations and recs regarding the genres and sub-genres. Being a relatively new fantasy reader, I have been having a hard time keeping up with all the books, series and sub-genres. With these buddy reads, it's been easier to knock down a few of the books from my list.

@Chris : Welcome! Great to have you in board and can't wait to hear your thoughts as well!!

@Nirkatze @Nyssa @ Jenna : @Nysaa said it. NA is New Adult. Also I like to take in the book and follow the story as it goes. I don't mind slow-paced books as long as we get to learn more about the characters, the world and the magi system. I am more of a character-driven story kind of person than plot-driven. So I love when we get to follow the character and enjoy their journey.

@ Nirkatze Lindon has the hunger for knowledge and power. I agree, they are the kind of students who are the best. I love that Suriel and the five-tailed fox were more about learning, and paving your own path than making him feel like there's no hope or possible future for him.

Haven't played any games at all and I am sitting here and reading all of you geeking out about it and feeling like I am missing out an entire world of fun. Growing up I didn't have a background where we had anyone in my immediate family who played games, read books. I felt like the odd one out most of the time, being an introvert who loved reading and not socializing didn't make things any easier. I finally found my tribe here on Goodreads and other platforms. So happy to have you all and share this reading experience with you.

[Soo]

Fazila, if you want to try games. We can probably recommend some to you. There are browser games that you can play on PC or mobile games on a smartphone. Without having to get into Steam, downloading a game client, buying a console or handheld, etc.

[Nirkatze]

I hear you Fazila! Growing up, my parents didn't let me have any game consoles, so I spent my free time reading and crafting. All my friends played games though (and read), so hanging out with them was often half awkward since I wasn't part of their gaming life. Post-school, all my old friends stopped reading, and we've drifted even more apart. Now that I'm grown up and control my own finances, I've gotten a little into gaming, but can count the number of games I've played to the end without getting into my toes. Still, I enjoy hearing others talk about them, and I like trying out different games every now and then--find a good one and it's like playing through a book.

[Fazila]

@Soo I'll be asking you guys recs for sure! Right now things are hectic but I am hoping someday I get to explore that world as well and see if it's for me or not!

@Nirkatze I can understand that. As we get older people kind of drift apart and finding the right kind of people with whom we can share these can be quite daunting.

[Fazila]

I finished yesterday. Solid first book. It has laid a good foundation for the upcoming series by setting up a world and magic system and also good cast of characters. I am invested in Lindon's future and possible roadblocks and curveball circumstances he will have to face.

Final chapters thoughts :

(view spoiler)[Loved Yerin and her fierceness. The scene where she laid the trap for Lindon! Lindon is definitely getting better at beating his opponents in every situation. He seems to be having a lot of luck and great timing when it comes to his plan of attack. Also will we get to see Suriel and her involvement in future books soon? Clearly there is a world outside and it has control over the small worlds. Are Makiel, Suriel and Ozriel kind of the enforcers who keeps the world's in check? Who has the ultimate say or who is in charge?? Makiel or is there someone above him deciding the fates of the world? What did Suriel so in the final scene? Was it referring to demolishing or activating the demolition of the world Limit or was it something else?

Loved when realization of who he is and what is possible for him hits Lindon. That scene when he learns of his hopeful future was just Gold!

I am wondering how Lindon who hasn't trained in any of the oaths managed to take down a Jade Sacred Artist Elder like Whitehall. It seemed impossible but somehow these odd-defying moments are what has happened everytime Lindon was faced with an adversary. I am looking forward to seeing how differentlybhe is abled in comparison to his clan members. Seems like he does have a fair amount of advantage in certain areas even though he lacked formal training. He also seemed to be able to do things that fir some of his peers would have taken longer. Atleast that's the impression I am getting. Has the orus fruit he took help him in ways and make the impossible possible??

Can't wait to see start the Soulsmith and see how things move forward and what new worlds we get to explore with the duo!!


How did the five-tailed fox leave the clan?? Or is it another illusion or his image that could move places??
(hide spoiler)]

[Nyssa]

@ Fazilla, I enjoyed reading your thoughts. One of your comments struck me - "Seems like he does have a fair amount of advantage in certain areas even though he lacked formal training."

I see it as "Necessity being the mother of invention." He has to anticipate and plan differently because he does not have the power or training afforded his "Souled" clansmen. He literally has to think outside of the box, or path, in his case, so that he can create and strengthen his own. On the flip side, those who have traveled their prescribed paths all of their lives are limited by their expectations and lack of imagination. They do not know how to defend against Lindon because they assume they won't need to. Remember, he is seen as "weak."

[Nirkatze]

Agreeing with Nyssa--really cool end thoughts Fazila, thank you!

(view spoiler)[I wonder if the Elder Fox could always break out, he just chose not to? Or maybe he's dreamwalking.

I also just noticed from your listing of the names like Suriel, Ozriel, Makiel--the pattern for names is the same as Angels. Their names all end in -el, which is I think a Hebrew syllable referring to God. Technically I guess these folks names all end in -iel, but it'll be interesting to see if that holds for others at Suriel's level, and if the names are supposed to invoke a level of power just shy of godhood. (hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

Yay, glad you enjoyed it, Fazila!

Some of the questions you posted will be answered later in series.

Lindon & abilities: I really liked that he didn't stay bogged down by insecurities, the taunting, bullying and all to stay in his "place". He kept dreaming of being more and growing in strength of mind & body. His mom is an innovative person. Dad is the fierce, fighter type. Sister is mix of their parents but nice.

That fruit & other spiritual fruit/etc help to strength the pathways and power up the center/core of energy.

Lindon's strength of mind and adaptability is what made him a tricky but fun person to cheer for. =D

Nirkatze, the author may like iel endings. I know I go in phases when I come up with names. lol It probably does have some loose connection to religion.

[Nyssa]

Soo wrote: "His mom is an innovative person. Dad is the fierce, fighter type. Sister is mix of their parents but nice.

Lindon's strength of mind and adaptability is what made him a tricky but fun person to cheer for. =D"

Agreed!!

I was so relieved to find that his sister is both kind to and supportive of her brother, especially seeing how gifted she is herself.
I hope we get to see them work together as a team.

[Soo]

Yah! =D

[Miche]

@Iain, I just got book 1 of Threadbare because of your recommendation.

I just wished the audiobook was on sale. I love Tim Gerald Reynolds, but one credit for a 10h book is a big no no for me. Maybe if I love it, then I will get it later on. :)