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Little Dorrit
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Buddy Read of Little Dorrit mid-Sept onwards with Janelle, Bridget, Lori and others
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Fiona
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Oct 29, 2021 12:51PM
Daniela /Jean - should that be a spoiler alert? I’m hoping not as it’s too late for me :(
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Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Oct 29, 2021 01:09PM)
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When they dramatise these novels, they have to miss a lot out, and also switch events round so it becomes simpler.
In the first dramatisation neither Rigaud nor Blandois (whether one or two) appear at all! Also it is in 2 parts, and goes back to near the beginning for the second part. So it is filmed twice, once from Arthur Clennam's point of view, and once from Amy Dorrit's. That's why I said it was "Arty" :) (But it's fascinating! I like both of the miniseries.)
The second dramatisation is more straightforward, and includes more characters, but events such as flashbacks may well be altered in terms of where they come in the dramatised story. Another example is Amy's infant years, which we do not learn until about chapter 5 or 6, after we have met her already. This confused another reader, who thought the miniseries had invented it, because it was filmed chronologically.
I hope I'm explaining this OK ...
Edit - just spotted the second post - no there's no spoiler - don't worry Fiona! Janelle and I already picked one up very early indeed, (made by someone else) :(
They will have changed this part in the dramatisation, probably to make it seem more immediate and "direct": punchy, rather than the "reported action" we had in the first chapter. And I think we are still being teased as to whether there is any possible relationship between Rigaud and Blandois.
Phew! Thanks, Jean. You’re off the hook, Daniela :)
Fiona, I am sorry, spoiler? I am talking about book 1, chapter 11.
Daniela wrote: "Fiona, I am sorry, spoiler? I am talking about book 1, chapter 11."Just confused, Daniela, as we were discussing the current chapter. No worries.
Dickens also puts this chapter right after a chapter where we were all quite angry about the Dorrit family and how they treat Amy but then this chapter truly shows some evil characters. The Dorrits love and care about each other even if they may do it in selfish or careless ways but none of them are as despicable as Gowan and Blandois.
I guess part of the reason I didn’t get as upset with this chapter is because I only blame the characters for what they do, not the author who writes the book. How many of us have read a mystery and thought we could have committed the crime better and gotten away with it. And we aren’t criminals, merely using our brains on a puzzle.On a funny note, my spellcheck kicked in when I was typing “merely” and suggested “merdle” instead. It’s learning from me!
Lori, I see we were both commenting on the book as a whole at the same time. So glad I’m reading this. It also adds to my anticipation for everything else.
Sue wrote: "I guess part of the reason I didn’t get as upset with this chapter is because I only blame the characters for what they do, not the author who writes the book. How many of us have read a mystery an..."That's hilarious Sue! Love your computer is learning from you.
I just realized, in french "merde" means "Sh**". I wonder if that's just a coincidence or if Dickens did that on purpose.
Oh Bridget! That’s hilarious. I would love to think that was intentional on Dickens part.
Bridget , I’m sure it’s intentional :))
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Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
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Also Mr. Murdstone in David Copperfield has a similar name.
This chapter begins with an acquiescent Amy in regards to being smoothed out and varnished by Mrs. General. It is not an easy adjustment for Amy but she is giving it a go. Amy and Fanny (or rather Fanny) discuss the fact that their father is rather kindly toward Mrs. General. Fanny brings up the possibility (she knows it to be truth) that Mrs. General has designs on him. Amy isn't so sure that she can believe this though. Next, Sparkler becomes the topic of conversation and we are privy to more of Fanny's conniving and cruel behavior toward the poor boy. He is hanging around quite a lot and even Edward is weary with Sparkler's constant presence. But the Merdles are certainly in the sights of at least Fanny and Mr. Dorrit - as we learn at the end of the chapter when they get to Rome.
Curiously, Blandois pays a visit to the Dorrit's and is accepted as a friend of the Gowans. Mr. Dorrit asks him to take a message back to Henry concerning the portrait he wishes to have done.
This leads to a rather stifled conversation with Henry and Blandois in which Henry becomes angry:
for he resented patronage almost as much as he resented the want of it.
Finally Amy and Minnie get to spend a little time together alone until Blandois interrupts and the two become suspicious that he killed Lion.
The fact that Blandois is so easily accepted by her father leads her to compare their new society life with the life in the Marshalsea. She parallels much as so similar that it's rather telling about humanity.
Finally they arrive in Rome and Dickens descriptions are again wonderful and demonstrating how good he is at writing them:
Through a repetition of the former Italian scenes, growing more dirty and more haggard as they went on, and bringing them at length to where the very air was diseased, they passed to their destination
Rome is nothing like Venice and everybody here is talking only about the fashionable things. In fact Mrs. General is in her element because
Nobody had an opinion. There was a formation of surface going on around her on an amazing scale, and it had not a flaw of courage or honest free speech in it.
It's interesting someone recently proposed the idea of Mrs. General and Mr. Dorrit's matching up. This would be a horrible solution for Amy though.Amy is such an insightful young lady and I'm so glad she can see through Blandois. Minnie can as well. She may be the youngest, but the life she lead in the prison being caregiver and keeping her brother and sister as well as forming relationships with people like the Plornishes and Maggy gives her the insight into compassion which society doesn't understand. She will never stoop to do anything because it will better her station. Mr. Dorrit, Fanny and Edward are only interested in connections that will help them. I hope Amy is able to free herself of this life somehow.
Thanks for another excellent summary, Lori. I feel so sorry for Minnie but as we learn more about Henry’s nature, I wonder how he managed to keep it so hidden from her during their courtship. She surely wouldn’t have fallen for such a pompous, duplicitous ass if he’d shown his true colours then?Blandois makes both Minnie and Amy very uncomfortable. Why should he think they’d be talking about him? What is he up to? It won’t be anything good.
Excellent questions, Fiona. I’m guessing Henry was always on his best behavior with Minnie and of course, love is blind. Most likely the Meagles were on to Henry’s negative side since they tried to put a stop to the courtship. And Blandois popping up is concerning. I think he realizes that Amy and Minnie see through him. They aren’t like the others who look only at what they can gain from another person. Amy truly wants to know a person’s heart, I believe. Dickens did this same thing with Florence in Dombey and Son. Florence could sense the evil in the villain, Carker.
Lori, I loved your thoughts about why Amy is so compassionate and insightful. And I also enjoy your summaries. Thank you for that.Fiona, I feel bad for Minnie as well. She's in quite a mess married to Henry. I think its plausible that Henry behaved nicely while he was courting her, and didn't show his true self. I also think Minnie was too young and sheltered to notice the "real" side of Henry.
I'm wondering what Blandois is up to as well. I got the feeling he is "stalking" either Minnie or Little Dorrit. The girls were only alone for 5 minutes when he showed up unexpectedly. The narrator imagines Blandois thinking: "You were going to talk about me. Ha! Behold me here to prevent it". That line is what made me think he's following them.
I have a question about the passage referring to Sparkler hanging around all the time. I got the feeling Sparkler was becoming healthier and more manly through courting Fanny. But maybe I'm reading this passage wrong. Here it is:It was probably owing to this fortification of the natural strength of his constitution with so much exposure to the air, and the salt sea, that Mr Sparkler did not pine outwardly...he was so far from any prospect of moving his mistress by a languishing state of health, that he grew bluffer every day, and that peculiarity in his appearance of seeming rather a swelled boy than a young man became developed to an extraordinary degree of ruddy puffiness
I can't decide if "ruddy puffiness" is a desirable quality. But it must be better than being "a swelled boy". So for all Fanny's cruelty and manipulation, maybe this is a good thing for Sparkler?
In the previous chapter he was described as "splendid" ascending a staircase like Venus's son birthed out of the water. And I thought that made Sparkler seem effeminate. Ruddy Puffiness is a bit more masculine, I guess??
Lori wrote: "Excellent questions, Fiona. I’m guessing Henry was always on his best behavior with Minnie and of course, love is blind. Most likely the Meagles were on to Henry’s negative side since they tried to..."Lori, you and I were typing with the same thoughts at the same time! Great reference to Florence and Evil Carker. That fits perfectly with Amy Dorrit and Blandois
Bridget,I went back to look at the chapter (21) when we met Sparkler and he was described as a swelled boy there.
The colonel's son was Mrs Merdle's only child. He was of a chuckle-headed, high-shouldered make, with a general appearance of being, not so much a young man as a swelled boy. He had given so few signs of reason, that a by-word went among his companions that his brain had been frozen up in a mighty frost which prevailed at St John's, New Brunswick, at the period of his birth there, and had never thawed from that hour.
It sounds as if it is a sickness or could it mean he was chubby? The ruddy puffiness is much more appealing.
As for Minnie’s relationship with Henry, at the time of this novel, a young woman such as Minnie wouldn’t spend a lot of time alone with her beau. A long walk in the park probably wouldn’t reveal many negative traits but would allow a lot of romantic words that mean nothing. Acting is all that’s needed until after the marriage and then, of course, all that is her becomes his.
Some of the descriptions here were quite biting. I particularly liked the section that describes the people visiting various museums, etc. Nobody said what anything was, but everybody said what the
Mrs. Generals, Mr. Eustace, or somebody else said it was. The
whole body of travellers seemed to be a collection of voluntary
human sacrifices, bound hand and foot, and delivered over to
Mr. Eustace and his attendants, to have the entrails of their intellects
arranged according to the taste of that sacred priesthood.
Wow! I imagine Dickens must have witnessed some of this in his travels.
Sue, very sharp description for certain. I had no idea who Mr. Eustace could be but Jean solved that mystery in the original thread. Here's the link to it - it's a very quick read.
link
He was a man who wrote a journal of his travels through Italy which made him famous.
That bit made me think that these people, like Mrs General aren’t travelling because they’re interested, they’re just doing it because it’s what ‘society’ does.I highlighted a whole long paragraph just before your quote, Sue. It was where Amy was thinking about all the endless people of society visiting the Dorrits and she was comparing it to being not much different to the endless comings and going’s in the Marshalsea.
“It appeared on the whole, to Little Dorrit herself, that this same society in which they lived, greatly resembled a superior sort of Marshalsea. Numbers of people seemed to come abroad, pretty much as people had come into the prison; through debt, through idleness, relationship, curiosity, and general unfitness for getting on at home. They were brought into these foreign towns in the custody of couriers and local followers, just as the debtors had been brought into the prison. They prowled about the churches and picture-galleries, much in the old, dreary, prison-yard manner. They were usually going away again to-morrow or next week, and rarely knew their own minds, and seldom did what they said they would do, or went where they said they would go: in all this again, very like the prison debtors. […]”
And it goes on in its comparisons. It’s interesting that Amy (or Dickens) views these tourists as much like prisoners.
Yes! In this section itt did seem that Amy and Dickens were thinking alike.Anyone else surprised and alarmed at Mr. Dorrit’s apparent interest in Mr. Merdle’s skill with money? Mr. Dorrit hasn’t shown to be a particularly good judge of people.
I noticed that as well, Sue. And it appears Little Dorrit is worried about this now too
Sue wrote: "Some of the descriptions here were quite biting. I particularly liked the section that describes the people visiting various museums, etc. Nobody said what anything was, but everybody said what t..."
particularly liked the section that describes the people visiting various museums, etc.
"Entrails of their itellects" is just brilliant!! loved this too
Janelle wrote: "That bit made me think that these people, like Mrs General aren’t travelling because they’re interested, they’re just doing it because it’s what ‘society’ does.I highlighted a whole long paragrap..."
That is such a fantastic passage Janelle! Comparing prisoners and tourists, who both walk through life like zombies without any independent thoughts and observations is wonderful writing. This is why we love Dickens so much.
Lori wrote: "Bridget,I went back to look at the chapter (21) when we met Sparkler and he was described as a swelled boy there.
The colonel's son was Mrs Merdle's only child. He was of a chuckle-headed, high-s..."
That was a great idea to go back and look at the original description of Sparkler. Thank you for posting it here, so I didn't have to look it up myself :-)
I thought "swelled boy" meant he was full of himself, or a spoiled child. But you might be right and its more of a sickness.
I think it could be either Bridget. I think Mrs Merdke is capable of raising a spoiled child! That idea seems to fit the frosty brain too.
So many options for Sparkler. When he was first mentioned, I thought it meant he was a simpleton and Dickens certainly doesn’t think much of his intelligence. Perhaps he had some childhood illness that affected his physical development and education (mental and social). Combined with his mother, that would go a long way to explain the person we see . And the silliness of the name Dickens has given him, for nothing about him is sparkling.
Sue, I love your ideas concerning Sparkler as well. It fits very well with his name as you say - a dull guy with out any spark at all!
This turned out to be quite an explosive chapter full of fireworks! WOW!At first we are taken to the offices of Clennam and Doyce where Daniel has given up the fight and decided to let the invention go. Arthur, however, has reason to encourage him and asks Daniel to explain the invention to him. He is able to convince Daniel that he must continue (which means to start all over again according to the Circumlocution office) and since he, Arthur, is younger and able - he will take on the Circumlocution office himself which will allow Daniel the time to put toward the mechanics of his work.
We find out how much Arthur really missed Amy and that he realizes after receiving her letter that
He saw that he was cherished in her grateful remembrance secretly, and that they resented him with the jail and the rest of its belongings.
He thought of her other wise in the old way. She was his innocent friend, his delicate child, his dear Little Dorrit.
He cannot stop thinking that he is elderly after having lost his attempt at marriage with Minnie but he thinks about the type of gentleman that Amy could marry.
On a day when Arthur is visiting the Meagles, Mrs. Gowan makes a visit.
She descended, in her shady ambuscade of green fan, to favour Mr and Mrs Meagles with a call.
The fireworks begin shortly thereafter with her arrogance and condescending attitude. She was not there for a purely social visit to inquire of their health and well-being. Calling them "Mama and Papa Meagles" was just so ugly. She was there to make a point from the start that Henry married beneath him and that it was the Meagles fault and nothing could be done about it now. That Minnie has certainly made for herself a catch in her son. And we learn that Minnie is pregnant.
However, Mr. Meagles would not be silent and kindly made his side of the discussion known. He tried so hard to hold back his thoughts but when he let them go, he did it in such an honorable way without losing his temper. However, Mrs. Gowan was to have the last word and so making it known that a match so different in background as their children will never make it:
It never does … It is an ascertained fact. It never does. I will therefore, if you please, go my way, leaving you to yours. I shall at all times be happy to receive my poor fellow’s pretty wife, and I shall always make a point of being on the most affectionate terms with her. But … I assure you it never does …
After writing this, I find a dichotomy in Arthur's thinking about his age. He considers himself younger compared to Daniel and more able to take care of the headache that comes with the Circumlocution office. He even called himself "fresh meat". But when it comes to love he feels he is too old. I love that Arthur will help Daniel and it gives him a new project to think about.
Lori - that’s a good point regarding Arthur’s self image.I loved the scene with Mrs Gowan. It’s great drama! Dickens suggests that she manufactures the scene to divorce herself from the Meagles. By manipulating Mr Meagles into rowing with her, she can say to people she had found it impossible to know those people who belonged to Henry’s wife, and who had made that desperate set to catch him. She knows the truth of the matter and can’t afford for her own acquaintances to learn it so by creating this scene - and we have to admit it’s clever, if sneaky! - it would give her pretence a better air.
I’ve been impressed in this novel with Dickens’ insight into complex and manipulative characters. It’s making this so much more interesting to read.
Its so true, Fiona, relationships in this novel are very complex, and so many characters are manipulative. I'm enjoying it all too!The way Mrs. Gowan twists Mr. Meagles' words around so that he looks like the bad guy was a great parallel to the way the Circumlocution Office takes down any Member of Parliament who has the audacity to challenge them. Or the way the Barnacles twist Arthur into a pretzel when he attempts to advance Doyce's invention. Well, Mrs. Gowan is, afterall, a Barnacle herself, right? Of course she's adept at obsfucation!
Lori, I absolutely love your observations about Arthur's self perception. Brilliant!
One more thought.......speaking of complexity, look at the Meagles. When I see them interact with Mrs. Gowan, I feel sorry for them. But when I think about how they treated Tattycoram/Harriet, I think they are well meaning but also really unkind.
Fiona, what a perceptive way to describe what Mrs. Gowan did - divorcing herself from the Meagles. You are so right that she is sneaky and clever in her execution of the plan. It was obviously planned. I don't see her being an impromptu type.Bridget that is a wonderful connection with Mrs. Gowan and the description Dickens gives for how the Barnacles obliterate the member of Parliament. We have all most likely met someone like her and walk very fast away in the opposite direction to avoid them. Not pleasant.
I gotta say that I admire Mr. Meagles for being able to hold his tongue for so long. I especially loved
'Mrs. Gowan, ma'am,'...'I have been a plain man all my life. If I was to try - no matter whether on myself, on somebody else, or both - any genteel mystifications, I should probably not succeed in them.'..
'Therefore, my good madam,' said Mr. Meagles, at great pains to restrain himself, 'I hope I may, without offense, ask to have no such mystification played off upon me.'
But Mrs. Gowan is too well-versed in the ways of this genteel mystification to let Mr. Meagles' attempt to be warm override her viciousness. Like you said, Fiona, it was pure manipulation.
Bridget wrote: "One more thought.......speaking of complexity, look at the Meagles. When I see them interact with Mrs. Gowan, I feel sorry for them. But when I think about how they treated Tattycoram/Harriet, I th..."Good point, Bridget. The kindest people who seem to have a narrow-minded view when it comes to Tatty.
Bridget - I love your comparison with the Circumlocution Office and your phrase about them twisting Arthur into a pretzel made me laugh, thank you!
Mrs Gowan! She’s an awful woman! I really hate fake people, the Meagles are lucky she won’t be visiting again.
The vicious nature of some of these people is amazing. And in Dickens this trait is not confined to a particular class. We see all sorts of bad or vicious people who abuse others physically or emotionally. Mrs. Gowan is a horror. No wonder Henry is the rather useless person he is. I do hope she doesn’t prevent Minnie from visiting her parents.
After the last chapter we were in need of some comic relief and Dickens know exactly how to provide. Arthur learns and approves of the Meagles deciding to go to Italy to be with Minnie. After the events with the affable and condescending ornament of society the night prior. It sounds as if Mr. Meagles is willing to be kind to Henry however we learn that Henry's debts have been accruing again and of course his father-in-law must take care of them.
Arthur next discovers through a comical discussion with Mrs. Tickit shares a possible sighting of Tattycoram about the property. She is rather wordy and prefaces her story with the fact that she was watching with my eyes closed
Thinking she was dreaming, Arthur becomes aware that she may be telling the truth when he spots Tatty and a strange man together.
a strange man of a remarkable appearance: a swaggering man, with a high nose, and a black moustache as false in its colour as his eyes were false in their expression, who wore his heavy cloak with the air of a foreigner.
He follows them until they meet up with Miss Wade and a discussion about a payment of some sort to be made to the gentleman is overheard by Arthur. Now he remains hidden from their view so that he can follow them to their destination. It's a well-known portion of London and one he is very familiar with. They wind up entering into the Patriarchal home - that of Mr. Casby.
Flora and Mr. F's Aunt provide more comedy. Flora eating her toast crusts and then being offended when Arthur won't is just hilarious!
Arthur is able to speak to Mr. Casby learning nothing other than Miss Wade visits on occasion and he never knows when. Pancks arrives and when he finishes his business Arthur is able to speak to him outside. He finds out that Miss Wade comes to Mr. Casby for money and she reluctantly accepts it and that she knows nothing of her parentage. Rather curious information that we learn about her. Obviously, this money she claimed tonite will be used to pay the mysterious man - who also has a mustache.
Right away, I'm wondering if this is Blandois and how it could be him if he is in Italy. Hmmmmmmm........ Dickens drops some new tidbits for us to chew on in this chapter!
Thanks for the summary, Lori. I’m sure this is Blandois - if not, it’s his doppelgänger. He must have returned to England when the others left Venice for Rome. If so, it makes me think that he was with the others to spy on them on behalf of Miss Wade but why on earth would that be? As you say, much to mull over.Cavalletto appears to be working for Arthur. In what capacity? Have I forgotten something?
I’m pleased the Meagles are heading for Italy. Minnie needs them close by. I’m sure Henry won’t be thrilled though.
Again, Dickens describes Pancks in nautical terms. I love this! from the inner Dock where the good ship Pancks was hove down when out in no cruising ground, the noise was heard of that steamer labouring towards them. The chapter ends Mr Pancks…..snorted several times and steamed away. Wonderful imagery!
Fiona, the news of Cavelletto working for Arthur is new to me too. I know Arthur is paying his living expenses so it's possible that they've worked out something. And the nautical terms are fantastic! I love Pancks and his hair!
Please take a look at the illustrations Jean has linked in the original thread. Mr. F's Aunt is quite a character in print!
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Bleak House (other topics)The Holly-Tree (other topics)
The Chimes (other topics)
Little Dorrit (other topics)
Dombey and Son (other topics)
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Charles Dickens (other topics)Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
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