BOTM 3 - September 2021 - A Rogue by Any Other Name

[Sam I]

Discussion thread for the Third BOTM of September 2021. Please remember to use the spoiler tags when necessary! (Please see 'some html is ok' for instructions.)

Happy Reading!



A Rogue by Any Other Name

What a scoundrel wants, a scoundrel gets...

A decade ago, the Marquess of Bourne was cast from society with nothing but his title. Now a partner in London’s most exclusive gaming hell, the cold, ruthless Bourne will do whatever it takes to regain his inheritance—including marrying perfect, proper Lady Penelope Marbury.

A broken engagement and years of disappointing courtships have left Penelope with little interest in a quiet, comfortable marriage, and a longing for something more. How lucky that her new husband has access to such unexplored pleasures.

Bourne may be a prince of London’s underworld, but he vows to keep Penelope untouched by its wickedness—a challenge indeed as the lady discovers her own desires, and her willingness to wager anything for them... even her heart.

[Shannon]

I've read this one, but I may lurk for the discussion. I'm interested to see what others think of it. Since my time is limited right now, I'll choose one of the other books for the BOTM this month.

[Mariana]

I've been doing good to read two BOTM. I'm not ready for a Sarah MacLean reread yet, so I'm going to pass on this one and read the others this month.

[Joanna Loves Reading, Bluestocking of HR novels]

I may listen as a reread. I haven’t decided yet.

[Preeti]

I have read/listen to and liked the audiobook narration by Rosalyn Lander.

[Mamacita aka MawMaw]

Shannon wrote: "I've read this one, but I may lurk for the discussion. I'm interested to see what others think of it. Since my time is limited right now, I'll choose one of the other books for the BOTM this month."

Same here & this is one I wasn't planning to ReRead

[Lady Nilambari]

Read this a few months ago, may read again, not sure yet!

[Leena]

I don't like Sarah McLean much. I've read one of hers and I couldn't finish it. so,maybe I'll brave this one

[SZ]

Loved this book! Read it for the first time last year

[Missy]

I haven't decided if I'll listen to this audiobook yet.

[Maureen]

I read this book in the last 2 weeks. This book is the first book in the “Rule of Scoundrels” series a sequel to series “ Love by Numbers”. It is interesting to read all about the different characters in each series and how there lives interconnect. The main running themes between all the books is how easy it is for “women” to be ruined while men are more popular if they are scoundrels or rakes. Most English marriages were business arrangements between the “ton”. Love didn’t often happen and wasn’t a requirement for marriage.
I really have enjoyed Sarah MacLean’s books. Her characters are interesting, amusing and complex. I would also recommend Lisa Kleypaas and Julia Quinn’s books.

[Cath]

Finished Ch. 2

Could Langford be any more awful? He makes a great villain so that I’m instantly rooting for Bourne, no matter how ruthless Bourne has become.

I liked that we get to see snapshots of Bourne at 15 (via his letters) and at 21, before meeting his 31 year old self. Gives a sense of who he was and had the potential to be, until his life’s trajectory was changed by his parents’ deaths. Makes me feel sad. I do hope to learn more about what he was like at 21, that he could become such a reckless gambler.

Unfortunately I thought Ch 2 really got bogged down w/ too much focus on making sure it’s very obvious to all that Penelope is a spinster with a failed engagement who doesn’t want to get married. First we hear P’s thoughts about this, and then there’s all the breakfast table discussion about it, and then back to more of P’s thoughts on the topic. At 27 pages, the chapter really dragged for me.

What I did like in Ch 2 were:

(view spoiler)[- the letters between P & Bourne

- trying to figure out why Tommy proposed (until the reveal by Needham’s news)

- being surprised by Needham when he suddenly put his foot down & commanded that P would marry, as earlier it had seemed like he was a mild-mannered father more concerned about his dog’s needs than any discussion the ladies were having abt P's future (hide spoiler)]

As for all the talk of scandals: (view spoiler)[seems to me the far greater scandal than that of a 21 year old Bourne recklessly losing his estate at the gaming tables, was the fact that his guardian - the man who was tasked with looking after Bourne & the estate - was the one on the other side of the wager! What about THAT scandal? How is Langford even received in respectable circles after such despicable behavior?

And regarding Penelope’s situation: I’m just very skeptical that, given her father’s immense wealth, Penelope’s being jilted by her fiancé (b/c he was in love w/ someone else) would have created such stigma that eligible male aristocrats would largely steer clear of the other young women in the family. Not when huge dowries are involved! I just find that hard to believe. (hide spoiler)]

[Joanna Loves Reading, Bluestocking of HR novels]

Cath wrote: "Finished Ch. 2

Could Langford be any more awful? He makes a great villain so that I’m instantly rooting for Bourne, no matter how ruthless Bourne has become.

I liked that we get to see snapshots ..."

I am going to start listening tomorrow. This is a reread for me.

I think your “scandal” question gets addressed in a manner later on in the book if I recall correctly.

[Joanna Loves Reading, Bluestocking of HR novels]

Darbella wrote: "Cath, fyi...the hero who jilted Penelope story is Eleven Scandals to Start to Win a Duke's Heart. In this story the heroine calls Penelope the grape.
If you like this one enough I w..."

Good point, Darbella. I agree on the recommendation.

MacLean’s first series was my favorite by her.

[Joanna Loves Reading, Bluestocking of HR novels]

Cath wrote: "Finished Ch. 2

Could Langford be any more awful? He makes a great villain so that I’m instantly rooting for Bourne, no matter how ruthless Bourne has become.

I liked that we get to see snapshots ..."

The sisters (view spoiler)[ I am sort of taking that as dramatics, not seriously ruining their chances, but if it is still the talk of the town, might be embarrassing and assumed as harming their chances. (hide spoiler)]

[Joanna Loves Reading, Bluestocking of HR novels]

I am through Chapter 4. Listening this time, but I also have the ebook for reference.

When Penelope & Bourne see first reunited (view spoiler)[Bourne acts like a jerk more than I remembered. Having their youthful letters helps soften that view of him, but I am a bit put off by his behavior thus far. (hide spoiler)]

[Lauren]

I finished! This was an okay read for me. Bourne was an a** and Penelope just took it. She was too dutiful. I didn't feel the chemistry between them. I know I'm alone in my opinion. The author does redeem the story at the end of the book.

[Cath]

Finished Ch 4.

Well I’m really enjoying this. A pleasant surprise after Ch 2. Fingers crossed for the rest of the book!

Darbella wrote: Cath, fyi...the hero who jilted Penelope story is Eleven Scandals to Start to Win a Duke's Heart.

Thanks, @Darbella! That helps me understand why Ch 2 seemed so static, w/ lots of telling. I probably will try that other series at some point

@Joanna regarding your comment about the sisters and scandals, yes that does seem like a more plausible explanation. Good point.

So my take so far:
Bourne really is an A++ a-hole. Downright cruel. I’m going to need some reckoning and reparations (a.k.a.suffering and groveling!) by the end, so I can get some justice. Otherwise :(

However I still like Bourne. I’m rooting for him to achieve some peace and happiness, eventually. And justice as well. Unfortunately, right now he’s all about vengeance, which he thinks justifies his scorched earth policy, innocent bystanders be damned.

But the upside of Bourne's blatant horribleness is that (view spoiler)[it has given P the freedom to be assertive. No more sitting politely in quiet frustration on the sidelines while men determine her fate. At least this time she will push back.

Since Bourne has abandoned the rules of civility, P can’t rely on using her skills at waving the "properness" flag or citing the conventions of polite society to bring Bourne to heel. She tries, but he just mocks her and tosses them aside when she deploys them. Nor can she use a more acceptable form of passive-aggressive “warfare,” to which women in male-dominated societies must often resort as their only means to assert power, against him. No, he doesn’t care about society’s opinions. Nor will he respond to emotional appeals to his better nature, when she invokes the memory of their childhood friendship. He has shut down that part of himself.

Of course P fights back against him physically. I’m glad. But again, he easily overpowers her.

No, what I think is really great in these scenes is that she gives herself permission to go on offense in the most wounding way possible, in order to do what it takes to defend her right to have some say over her fate . She delivers sharp effective verbal jabs: "it’s not your land;"" it’s my land;" "you lost it." These are the most hurtful things, the most painful things, she could say to him and she knows it. That’s why a part of her feels bad, but still she stands her ground. No more Miss Nice Gal. And he thoroughly deserves those jabs.

So good for P for doing what it takes to stand up for herself. At this point, she is not going to just roll over and give up. Which is what it seems she has been doing for most of her life. (hide spoiler)]

I'm very curious to see where the rest of the story will take her.

[Cath]

Finished Ch 11.

I'd been really enjoying what MacLean was doing with the characters and then p. 195 in Ch 11 came along. Ugh!

Apologies but I just have to go off on a long rant now:

(view spoiler)[Up 'till now it seemed P had a kind of self-awareness along with a firm grasp on reality, which meant she could be honest with herself about her penchant for fantasizing and dreaming; honest about her emotions, including sadness when she had to accept disillusionment; and honest about how much control/choice she could realistically exercise in any given situation. She would make the best of the cards she'd been dealt. It was a joy to watch her navigate through her situation.

But now, here she’s gone to her first dinner out in society with Bourne, to Tottenham’s, where the goal is to re-enter society and convince the aristocracy that theirs was a love match, not a forced marriage, so that her sisters won’t be tainted by scandal and can make good marriages.

And things have gone as planned. Bourne charms everyone. And of course P is affected by seeing this side of Bourne and feels a certain longing about what she wishes their marriage could be. Understandable, b/c she does have those childhood memories of him, and who wouldn’t be attracted to sexy grown-up Bourne at his most charming?

But then on p 195, she essentially APOLOGIZES to him for insisting that as part of the conditions of their forced marriage they pretend it’s a love match. Not literally, but when she says, “Don’t you feel as though…I am taking advantage of you?” she’s implying that he is the injured party here! When the reality is that her stipulation that he pretend they had a love match, was a concession she negotiated for herself to do the best she could with a very bad thing he had chosen to do when he forcefully compromised her so he could get Falconwell!

So then Bourne says: Did I not take advantage of you when I married you?

Yes. Yes, he did. Thank you, Bourne! At least someone’s being honest and consistent in this scene!

And then we get from Penelope the “realization” (sarcastic font, plus *eye-roll*) that:

She’d not thought of it in such a stark way.

WHAT!? Does Sarah MacLean mean to tell me that after everything Bourne pulled in that scene when P showed up at Falconwell, and after the very frank discussion between the two of them about what Bourne was doing and why, PENELOPE NEVER THOUGHT BOURNE WAS DOING A SELFISH THING, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF HER???? REALLY???

I am screaming!!!

And then she says to Bourne: It seems different. And I regret it, nonetheless, asking you to do this for them. For me.

I mean, who needs to gaslight Penelope, when she is happy to do it to herself? (Not that Bourne is doing that anyway.)

So exasperating! Infuriating.

So, now apparently it's to be: yeah, sure, it was fine that Bourne compromised her so he could get Falconwell, and how simply awful that she dared to push back, try to exercise some agency, and at least negotiate something for herself to make the situation a little more bearable????

How did P suddenly become so stupid and turn into a doormat? This is just pathetic. (hide spoiler)]

I can only hope this is a temporary aberration in the story :(

[Missy]

I started skimming through the prologue up to chapter 3 last night to get a feel for the book.

Prologue: I felt so awful for our young hero. (view spoiler)[To lose almost everything in a game of cards. I can only imagine the devastation and betrayal he must have felt. (hide spoiler)]

Ch.1: It was getting interesting. I was starting to like the writing style, but then when Chase walked into the room to give Bourne some news, I lost patience and skimmed through their conversation.

Ch.2: I couldn't help but think of Pride and Prejudice during this entire chapter. I started skimming again when her parents were discussing her marriage prospects and spinsterhood.

Ch.3: The (view spoiler)["kidnapping" (hide spoiler)] kind of sealed the deal. I will continue reading the book...for now.

Ch.5: I did not expect (view spoiler)[them to get intimate (hide spoiler)] this early in the book, but I'm not complaining. :)

I've read up to chapter 6, however, I am still skimming through some parts, because the chapters are so long.

[Missy]

Oh! It’s not often I come across a hero named Michael. I like that name; it’s a nice change from all of the heroes named Sebastian.

[Sandra]

I've started the book. Until now at chapter 6 I'm enjoying the book. It makes me laugh and I enjoy characters with humour. I also like the writing style of the author.

[Joanna Loves Reading, Bluestocking of HR novels]

Cath wrote: "Finished Ch 11.

I'd been really enjoying what MacLean was doing with the characters and then p. 195 in Ch 11 came along. Ugh!

Apologies but I just have to go off on a long rant now:

Up 'till no..."

Good points. I am not sure I felt so strongly about it, but I do think it did seem an abrupt change by P. (view spoiler)[ I am not surprised at the hurt she is feeling but it didn’t feel like it was not quite the right point. I think MacLean is trying to show how not being sought after for her has messed with her self esteem but it feels a bit heavy handed at times. (hide spoiler)]

[Anshi]

The letters gave a beautiful touch to the story. I wish Michael had also written a couple of unsent letters/journaled unsent responses that Penelope could've found in his townhouse. Or some letters as memoirs could've been added at the end of the book.

Penelope was too dutiful and easy to please. She was sweet and easy-going, even against her mother's and youngest sister's barbs.

I wanted more grovelling from Michael. Michael could have journaled/written unsent letters apologising to Penelope for his behaviour on the present day. Something like that could've covered some ground as grovelling. Also, I expected him to flip out when Langford (view spoiler)[manhandles Penelope after she wins but his balanced response seemed inconsistent with the rest of his character build-up. (hide spoiler)]

Fun Fact: For Penelope's ex-fiancee Duke of Leighton's story, you may read Eleven Scandals to Start to Win a Duke's Heart. I had read the series a while back & realised only after finishing this book that Sarah MacLean has done a great job of linking the two series (Love By Numbers and the Rules of Scoundrels). When I was reading Love By Numbers Series, I wanted some closure for Georgiana and I am hoping to get it the Rules of Scoundrels series.

[Joanna Loves Reading, Bluestocking of HR novels]

Anshi wrote: "The letters gave a beautiful touch to the story. I wish Michael had also written a couple of unsent letters/journaled unsent responses that Penelope could've found in his townhouse. Or some letters..."

Rest assured, Georgiana shows back up. Keep reading the series for sure!

I would have liked Michael to write some letters as well. It would feel less one-sided.

[Anshi]

Joanna Loves Reading wrote: "Anshi wrote: "The letters gave a beautiful touch to the story. I wish Michael had also written a couple of unsent letters/journaled unsent responses that Penelope could've found in his townhouse. O..."

I have read the 2nd & 3rd book immediately after reading this one. Cross & Temple were very intriguing. I mean to read the last book featuring Chase soon.

[Joanna Loves Reading, Bluestocking of HR novels]

Anshi wrote: "Joanna Loves Reading wrote: "Anshi wrote: "The letters gave a beautiful touch to the story. I wish Michael had also written a couple of unsent letters/journaled unsent responses that Penelope could..."

Awesome! I hope you enjoy the last one!

[Sandra]

In which order do you think we should read the two series?

[Sandra]

Thanks Darbella!

[Sandra]

Just finished!!

I've liked this book. Easy reading, good characters, nice plot, a bit predictable that's true but a good story nevertheless. Loved Michael and Penelope and the relation between the of them. Looking forward to read the story of Pippa and Cross.

[Joanna Loves Reading, Bluestocking of HR novels]

I finally finished this and I liked it but ultimately found it underwhelming as a reread. It’s just not standing out to me much a few days following reading it.

[Cath]

I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments.

This book kind of went back and forth from a 3.5 to 4.5 for me. Lots of things I liked. MacLean did a great job of showing Penelope’s and Bourne’s story, but also gave us access to their thoughts, which I love. I also enjoyed a lot of their dialogue, including with other characters, and MacLean did a great job with secondary characters, bringing them to life and making them interesting.

But (view spoiler)[I was frustrated at the end that, once again Penelope tried to revise the history of what Bourne did, when she insisted that he didn’t force the marriage and that she chose it. It seems like she was trying to create a fantasy world in which Bourne was not the bad guy, and if Bourne would agree to the story she was telling, then they could live together happily, both pretending their relationship started in a spirit of choice and agreement. This means, to me, that Penelope’s journey, in terms of character growth, fell a bit short. Her inability to be honest with herself, and honest about who Bourne was at the beginning, meant that she had not attained the kind of freedom she had sought. She couldn’t quite accept reality.

I also didn’t like the part where she magically swooped in and saved the day by winning a game of cards against Langford. I felt like this was a way to make Penelope a hero, by saving Bourne. But I felt like Penelope already saved Bourne before that scene. She spent the whole book saving him, by staying with him and confronting him. He changed for the better because of who she was and because she refused to back down. And because Bourne had changed, he now had the ability to deal with Langford in a constructive way and that’s what the scene should have been about IMO. I felt using the card game as a heroic device for Penelope cheapened her story by emphasizing her heroism through a game of luck (chance!), rather than showing that the strength and influence of her character had been the driving force that changed Bourne’s outlook and behavior. (hide spoiler)]