Around the Year in 52 Books discussion
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[2022] Wild Discussion
Pam wrote: "Shannon- Even though we have a travel prompt this year, I still like it and may use it for a common theme for our 3 continents prompt."Oh, good idea :)
I was kind of drawn to: A fiction book about a “hot topic”.
I really like the hot topic or current event/issue but would prefer it not be limited to fiction. It's the perfect prompt to read for non-fiction.I don't really understand what defines "gothic" but I would still vote for it, most likely, to push me to read The Gormenghast Novels. I have a few other books that are classified as gothic. I like that it is different and specific. We have a lot of broad-interpretation prompts so far.
Can't wait to see what gets suggested tomorrow!
I definitely need help with less awkward phrasing but how about ‘ a book that is considered a classic in a particular genre’ . I’m thinking thins like Lord of the Rings, Murder on the Orient Express, Lonesome Dove, etc
Juliet Brown wrote: "I definitely need help with less awkward phrasing but how about ‘ a book that is considered a classic in a particular genre’ . I’m thinking thins like Lord of the Rings, Murder on the Orient Expres..."Maybe "A book that is considered a classic of its genre" (and then give examples so people who skim will understand)
I prefer the "gothic elements" wording and would be very likely to vote for that. I might still vote for "a touch of gothic" but to me, that's a lot less clear.
Thanks for the helpful feedback. I'll avoid "avoid." : ) "Difficult topic" and "hot topic" are better than what I had, but they could be interpreted as 'difficult to understand' or 'popular.' "Read a fiction book on a current social issue" comes closer to what I had in mind. I might hold off on this one for a week or so. We might get more specific topics that are better.
The part about "fiction" was intentional. Fiction is good for promoting social change, because it builds empathy and acceptance. It can teach indirectly so it's more palatable (less preachy). It's absorbed emotionally, so it's more memorable.
*Seeing gay characters on TV and in fiction helped build empathy and acceptance, which helped reduce suicides.
*Seeing women in STEM jobs - especially black women (Hidden Figures) - is really good for encouraging girls to pursue STEM careers. I always like to read about women in non-traditional jobs.
*Reading about characters with disabilities, or reading about neuro-diverse characters might be good for this year.
Is anyone exploring similar kinds of topics?
Hidden Figures wasn't fiction, through... I get your intent, but I do like prompts that make it easy to include nonfiction because it can be hard to fit those into the challenge sometimes.I've been thinking about a few different prompt ideas:
* A book featuring a extended familial relationship (i.e. between cousins, in-laws, aunt/uncle and nibling, etc.)
* A workplace comedy or drama
I like the subgenre idea a lot, because people can tune it to a larger genre they enjoy but still try something new, and not feel forced way outside their preferences.
Yes I thought Hidden Figures was non fiction?
NancyJ wrote: "The part about "fiction" was intentional. Fiction is good for promoting social change, because it builds empathy and acceptance. It can teach indirectly so it's more palatable (less preachy). It's absorbed emotionally, so it's more memorable..."I'd disagree that non-fiction can't do this too, especially if you are reading personal accounts of those directly affected by an issue. I actually have topics I'd rather read non-fiction of, rather than the other way round.
Yeah, I kind of swerved into another lane there with Hidden Figures. I started thinking about a great quote - "If you want people to change, you need to show them what it looks like." Real-life role models are even better than fiction in many cases. I'm sure we'll end up with at least one open non-fiction prompt but it's good to have choices. I'm planning to read at least one non-fiction book for the Flora Fauna prompt. I love the end-of-the-year lists of the best nonfiction and best science books.
We had a family drama tag one month (in my other group) that was really popular. It was a great month. Mental health has a lot of great fiction as well.
Workplace settings would appeal to me too. I would love some suggestions. I like anything that shows examples of culture, change and leadership. Many writers work alone, otherwise I'm sure we'd get more. His Majesty's Dragon was surprisingly realistic in showing work relationships, and two different cultures - Navy and Aviators.
Medical settings might be timely. I wonder if we're going to get memoirs from medical people who worked in the busiest covid hospitals. I also like books on neuro-science, brain science, and even Alzheimer's. I loved Still Alice.
Which subgenre idea did you like? I'm losing track (and I accidentally erased a post this morning.)
Ellie wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "The part about "fiction" was intentional. Fiction is good for promoting social change, because it builds empathy and acceptance. It can teach indirectly so it's more palatable (less ..."Yes absolutely. A lot of it depends on the writing too. Both are important, but we're all at different stages of openness of different topics. (Many year ago I needed to get a family member over his homophobia fast, for the good of the whole family. Showing him great movies with gay characters really helped. He wouldn't have chosen them on his own though.) Fiction is more accessible to people, so it's often a first step with a new topic, but people might not read anything about certain topics without a challenge of some type.
That's why I'm setting this idea aside for now. I hope people will suggest specific topics. I will quickly upvote a disabilities or neurodiversity topic. I'm sure Emily will know when the time is right.
This process of discussing potential tags is very helpful and interesting. I appreciate all the comments. I'd love to hear the other prompts that people are preparing for tomorrow.
This can wait until round 6 unless anyone else is excited about it. Nicole brought up genre prompts, and we talked about sub-genres.
Ellie said... Maybe something wider to do with the climate? Then people can read cli-fi, non-fiction or something with a less obvious connection. With all this extreme weather the world is seeing, I think it's an important topic and not just "the world has ended" scenarios.
====
Climate/Weather
Here are some variations...
1a. Read a book about climate or weather
1b. Read a book about climate, weather, or the environment.
1c. Read a book involving climate, weather, or the ocean. +fire?
1d. Read a book with climate, weather, fire or ocean in the content or title.
2a Read a book involving an extreme weather event. Is this too narrow?
2b Read a book with an extreme weather event in the content or title. (Fire, flood, hurricane, extreme temperature, tsunami, earthquake). Is this too broad? A search for "Fire" brought up 70000 titles.
This can wait until next week unless Ellie or others have a clear favorite.
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For next next time:
Subgenres:
Read a book in a subgenre (in any genre) that isn’t widely known.
So far we have quantum fiction (alternate realities), portal fantasy, steampunk, regency romance, climate fiction, micro-history, cyber-punk, cozy mysteries, hate-to-love, space opera, etc. We can choose to push ourselves to read outside our comfort zone, or dive deeper into a favorite specialty.
Other possibilities: War, WWII (history or historical fiction)
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Quantum fiction
Read a book about alternate realities, alternate worlds, or alternate history, aka Quantum Fiction. (This can include time travel and portals into other worlds.)
The alternate reality plots and devices can be found in most major genres (especially time travel), so this is broader than it sounds. (Physics experts might only count books that specifically mention physics concepts or quantum theory.)
Alternate realities is very broad, so I might suggest this tomorrow to introduce the topic. It probably won't get in, but it might work later (or when combined with other subgenres.
I'm into something like "read from a subgenre you are less familiar with"... open as to the genre.I also am fine with cli-fi being its own prompt, or choice 1 above (which encompases all the others, I think.)
Chrissy wrote: "I'm into something like "read from a subgenre you are less familiar with"... open as to the genre.I was thinking of "new to you" but it might be a way to let people indulge in a favorite that might never come up otherwise. I might be planting a seed for some fun discoveries later, even if it doesn't get in. (I have nature on my mind today, so I'm all about planting seeds.)
I also am fine with cli-fi being its own prompt, or choice 1 above (which encompases all the othe..."
Thanks Chrissy.
Please help me decide what to suggest tomorrow. I'm sorry that I've been writing so very much. I'm still fairly new, and learning, and I had a lot of extra time. I have lots of ideas, but I promise I won't keep it up. I need some feedback to make changes or just go for 1 or 2 of these.
1. Read a book relevant* to the quote: "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times." (See post # 881 for examples.)
2. Read a book relevant* to the quote: "May you live in interesting times." (See post # 881 for examples)
3. Read a book that involves alternate realities, alternate. worlds, alternate history, or Schrodinger's Cat. aka Quantum Fiction. (See post #765 769 for examples and links)
4. Read a book that is an alternate history. (This is more narrow)
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Other possibilities from message # 915 - for now or the next round.
5. Read a book about climate or weather (or broader)
5. Read a book in a new subgenre that isn't well known. (see # 769 or #915 for examples.) [This would be broader than #3)
*Note - I specifically used "relevant" (rather than related) to put the focus on the content of the book, not a word in the title.
Mod
I'm not big on your last two... I also don't read much cli-fi, and with the flora and fauna prompt getting in, I just don't know that I want to add another nature-based prompt (I know climate fiction isn't just nature but I could see people not voting for it because of that).
Also not big on the phrase "isn't well known". How do I determine what is well-known? If it's something I haven't heard of? Or my mom hasn't heard of?
I will say that I like your use of relevant over related!
All constructive criticism! I love that you have so many ideas flowing!!
I thought about suggesting 'a speculative fiction book', but that might be too broad?From the goodreads genre page:
Speculative fiction is a broad category of fiction encompassing genres with certain elements that are nonexistent in terms of reality, recorded history, or nature and the present universe, covering various themes in the context of the supernatural, futuristic, and many other imaginative topics.
Under this umbrella category, the genres include, but are not limited to: science fiction, fantasy fiction, horror fiction, supernatural fiction, superhero fiction, utopian and dystopian fiction, apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction, and alternate history.
It is can be used as an umbrella term for science fantasy.
Mod
Thanks for letting me know! I checked out the past lists, but managed to miss it.
Laurii wrote: "I thought about suggesting 'a speculative fiction book', but that might be too broad?From the goodreads genre page:
Speculative fiction is a broad category of fiction encompassing genres with cer..."
I'd be happy to see prompts on science fiction, fantasy, sci-fi fantasy or speculative fiction. Logically, speculative makes more sense to me than science fiction (because science isn't necessary involved), but sci-fi is more fun to say or type. More people shelve books as science fiction than as speculative fiction (100,000 vs 48000). Since we've had speculative fiction before, people will be more comfortable with it, or they might find it redundant.
I read that some people here will be resistant to science fiction or classics, which is too bad, because sci-fi can be found paired with almost any fiction genre. And classics could include modern classics (not just what you read in high school) and there are so many extraordinary classics.
For a while I thought I hated sci-fi. I love a lot of newer sci-fi by female authors.
Technically, any fiction with non-real elements counts as speculative fiction: sci fi, fantasy, magical realism, even horror. So there ought to be something in there for everyone!
I really like the alternative realities idea. I was surprised to find I had several books using that concept on my list for this year (and I can always use one of those if I don't get to them all). I also like "Best of times/worst of times"I'm not particularly interested in cli-fi, especially because flora and fauna just got in. I know they're not really the same, but I'm already not that into cli-fi, and they are similar enough that it's an extra push not to want it.
I like the alternate realities idea too. I also agree with not loving the "isn't well known" wording. Pop Sugar had something like "a sub-genre you've never heard of" and I found it difficult. I don't know that the sub-genre needs a qualifier, I think just "a sub-genre" would be sufficient.
Emily wrote: "I like the alternate realties one without the Quantum Fiction designation (so, a book that involves alternate realities, alternate worlds, or alternate history). As someone who doesn't read that ge..."===Thanks Emily. Some people reacted positively to the term quantum fiction, and to Schrodinger's cat. (I actually heard it at a party once, and it was funny.) But others might not. The flow would be better without it. As to "well known," I think the sample list will help people decide. I'm a heavy reader but many were new to me until recently.
A few of us were talking about climate recently, so the climate books were top of mind when we added books to flora and fauna. Once more people add their plant and animal books, they'll drop down.
Emily, would it be possible to create a separate listopia list for books with plant and animal names in the title? (As opposed to the content). It would make it easier for those who want the nature content, as well as for those who don't. (I used to be bored by it, but something switched on my interest.) I can help populate the other list.
Nancy wrote: "I like the alternate realities idea too. I also agree with not loving the "isn't well known" wording. Pop Sugar had something like "a sub-genre you've never heard of" and I found it difficult. I ..."
Maybe "a less common subgenre" would be better?
Thanks everyone for the great feedback. I think I'm more excited by alternate realities myself. The overlap with Flora and Fauna makes climate less urgent. I wouldn't want to pit alternate realities against another sci-fi fantasy or speculative prompt though
Depending on what else is suggested I might put in a quote instead.
In another round I was thinking about "Read a book set in the 1800s." Or "Read a book set in the first half of the 1900's. Pub date could be anytime.
NancyJ wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I like the alternate realities idea too. I also agree with not loving the "isn't well known" wording. Pop Sugar had something like "a sub-genre you've never heard of" and I found it..."
I like a "set in the past" prompt. It would be a good way to have a classics prompt without forcing anyone to read a classic - because historical fiction and maybe even some time travel science fiction would work too!
Mod
I'm sorry that I've been writing so very much. I'm still fairly new, and learning, and I had a lot of extra time. I have lots of ideas, but I promi..."
Don't worry about writing too much! New people bring us fresh ideas.
NancyJ wrote: "Please help me decide what to suggest tomorrow. I'm sorry that I've been writing so very much. I'm still fairly new, and learning, and I had a lot of extra time. I have lots of ideas, but I promi..."
Nancy, I don't think you've been writing too much at all!! I love reading through people's ideas and suggestions.
Personally, neither of the quote prompts are speaking to me. I feel like for the best/worst of times one I'd have to read a book about people in a terrible situation, either societally (like a dystopia or during a war) or personally (like a family tragedy), and I'm not sure I'm emotionally up for that even with the "best" part. The "interesting times" quote, on the other hand, I find a bit too broad because I can argue that almost every book has interesting scenarios.
I absolutely LOVE the Quantum Fiction prompt, in any wording. Some of my favorite tropes are reincarnation and time traveling, and I think it's a lot easier and less sci-fi than people might think since I see it all the time in romance novels.
Juliet Brown wrote: "I definitely need help with less awkward phrasing but how about ‘ a book that is considered a classic in a particular genre’ . I’m thinking thins like Lord of the Rings, Murder on the Orient Expres..."I think this might be essentially the same as "Read a classic" because I consider all the books you mentioned classics, and I'm sure lots of people would include modern classics if this prompt made it through. Or did you mean books that specifically started/popularized genres? That would be interesting, but certainly more challenging.
Irene wrote: "Juliet Brown wrote: "I definitely need help with less awkward phrasing but how about ‘ a book that is considered a classic in a particular genre’ . I’m thinking thins like Lord of the Rings, Murder..."I wouldnt limit so far as 'started' but I did mean books that are classics within genre fiction specifically . So sci -fi, mystery. romance, etc but excluding a lot of your standard school curriculum 'classics'
Juliet Brown wrote: "Irene wrote: "Juliet Brown wrote: "I definitely need help with less awkward phrasing but how about ‘ a book that is considered a classic in a particular genre’ . I’m thinking thins like Lord of the..."It might be difficult to differentiate genre fiction from literary fiction, could you maybe provide more specific examples?
I feel like a lot of "school curriculum classics" do fit into specific genres, such as Jane Eyre, Dracula, Frankenstein, and Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde being gothic literature, Romeo & Juliet, Pride and Prejudice, and Anna Karenina being romance, etc. I had to read Sherlock Holmes and Edgar Allan Poe's mysteries as required school reading as well.
and this is why I am having trouble phrasing what I mean.So, to take a couple genres, Sci fi , once you start reading it, eventually most people pick up things like I. Robot by Asimov and Enders Game, because they are early works that other authors reference a lot. Further in, you start reading cyberpunk, Nuromancer is just a gorilla in the subgenre
Fantasy, after Lord of the Rings, a lot of readers pick up Sword of Shannara
Mysteries you have things like the Maltese Falcon that isnt Holmes, but certainly sets the tone for a lot of what comes later
Juliet Brown wrote: "and this is why I am having trouble phrasing what I mean.So, to take a couple genres, Sci fi , once you start reading it, eventually most people pick up things like I. Robot by Asimov and Enders ..."
That makes more sense, kind of like books that were highly influential/revolutionary/groundbreaking in their genres? I guess there's still some overlap with school curriculum classics (I read I, Robot, The Maltese Falcon, and Enders Game in school) but I do see what you mean about not including ALL classics. I like this idea, and think you should include the examples you just gave in description if you do decide to suggest it for one of the polls!
Juliet Brown wrote: "and this is why I am having trouble phrasing what I mean.So, to take a couple genres, Sci fi , once you start reading it, eventually most people pick up things like I. Robot by Asimov and Enders ..."
Maybe iconic? Some of the titles above are so familiar to fans in a
genre, you can communicate an idea just by mentioning the name of the book or a character. It's almost a part of cultural literacy, to know what books really were groundbreaking or respected. I didn't read Frankenstein until a few years ago. I didn't really enjoy it but I'm glad I read it. I really enjoyed reading a biography of Mary Shelley afterward.
There might not be enough of those books for readers who feel that they've already read enough classics (or hated what they read in high school). I sometimes feel that way, but then I'll notice a title or author that I've always meant to read but didn't. This year I finally read something by Virginia Woolf and I loved it. My tastes have really changed so I like things now that I wouldn't have liked years ago.
Now I often look for "hidden gems."
NancyJ wrote: "Juliet Brown wrote: "and this is why I am having trouble phrasing what I mean.So, to take a couple genres, Sci fi , once you start reading it, eventually most people pick up things like I. Robot ..."
I wonder if "iconic" would encompass the intention of excluding school curriculum classics, per Juliet's explanation. I consider Virginia Woolf and Frankenstein pretty much standard required reading. It's definitely a tough prompt to phrase!
I like ‘iconic’ and I think it does more or less encompass the sort of book I mean. The other half now I think is figuring out how to phrase the publishing concept of “genre fiction vs literary fiction’ in a way that makes sense to people without being a paragraph
Juliet Brown wrote: "I like ‘iconic’ and I think it does more or less encompass the sort of book I mean. The other half now I think is figuring out how to phrase the publishing concept of “genre fiction vs literary fic..."I agree that that seems to be tricky! I think I'm a bit confused myself because I thought there was some overlap, like The Handmaid's Tale and 1984 being iconic sci-fi/dystopian books but also being very much read-in-school classics (they're are tagged frequently as literary fiction).
“Read a book that involves alternate reality, alternate worlds, or alternate history.” Related tags: quantum fiction, portal fantasy, historical fantasy, steampunk. Quantum theory might be used to explain it (along with the story of Schrodinger's cat). It might involve time travel, doorways, magical technology. Can be found in fantasy, sci-fi, historical fiction, romance, mystery, thrillers, and YA.
Examples: A Tale for the Time Being, Outlander, The Midnight Library, This is How you Lose the Time War, The Eyre Affair, Dark Matter, Recursion, His Majesty's Dragon, Underground Railroad, The Book of Two Ways, Harry Potter, Neverwhere, City of Bones, Life after Life, Every Heart a Doorway, Maybe in Another Life, My Lady Jane, Cinder, Golem & Jinni, the Chosen and Beautiful, Rodham, Hidden Palace, What the Wind Knows, Wisteria Society of Lady Scoundrels, Stardust.
Alternate Reality: https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/...
Alternate World: https://www.goodreads.com/genres/alte...
Alternate History: https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/...
Quantum Fiction: https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/...
Portal Fantasy: https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/...
I have mixed feelings about the books that are considered iconic or classics of their genre just because so many of those authors have turned out to be massively problematic and I don't really want to see them being promoted over other authors who are just as good but were overlooked.I would rather it be more like "a genre classic" which would allow for the more obscure books. If people want to count literary as a genre then that's up to them.
If we avoid every author whose views are outdated we would struggle to read anything written before 2000 or is that not what you meant by problematic?
Thomas wrote: "If we avoid every author whose views are outdated we would struggle to read anything written before 2000 or is that not what you meant by problematic?"I think that's why it's important for prompts to give people options, so they're not forced to read a book they personally find problematic. I doubt there are any people who would find every single book written before 2000 problematic, but it'd definitely be more of a challenge the farther back in time you go.
Personally, I find books like The Secret Garden ("I dare say it's because there's such a lot o' blacks there instead o' respectable white people") unbearably problematic, but it's some people's favorite book.
Mod
I agree with Irene that what is problematic varies for all of us. Some people can't read anything where an animal is hurt, for instance, or a child is in danger. I can't fathom why anyone would read true crime. If we ever have a prompt like that, I'll probably read about financial crime or some quirky heist, not serial killers. I do read a lot of mysteries with murders, but generally they are either "cozies" or they are safely set in the past. Even then, I never like chapters written from the point of view of a killer.
Anne of Green Gables is my favourite. I won’t deny that it contains racial slurs
Thomas wrote: "If we avoid every author whose views are outdated we would struggle to read anything written before 2000 or is that not what you meant by problematic?"There is a difference between outdated views and actually abusive people, who are some of the SF authors who routinely get recommended as the icons of SF. I've seen one already recommended.
Ellie wrote: "Thomas wrote: "If we avoid every author whose views are outdated we would struggle to read anything written before 2000 or is that not what you meant by problematic?"There is a difference between..."
Can you share who you're talking about? I didn't like classic sci-fi, and I don't read a lot these articles I guess.
NancyJ wrote: "Can you share who you're talking about? I didn't like classic sci-fi, and I don't read a lot these articles I guess...."Trigger warnings for these articles for sexual abuse and homophobia.
Asimov was a known sexual harasser and probably contributed a lot to the exclusion of women in SF. https://daily.jstor.org/asimovs-empir...
Also there is Marion Zimmer Bradley whose own child accused her of sexual abuse. https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...
Orson Scott Card spends a huge amount of energy and money campaigning for anti-gay laws. https://www.salon.com/2013/05/07/sci_...
I just hate seeing these authors held up as a shining example of the genre. I have read I Robot before I knew about Asimov but I won't read any more of his books, especially as people I trust have said his attitude to women seeps through in the Foundation series.
People can read what they want, of course, a lot of people can separate themselves when reading, but for others it's upsetting. I occasionally read Christie but also know to brace myself for casual racism.
Ellie wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Can you share who you're talking about? I didn't like classic sci-fi, and I don't read a lot these articles I guess...."Trigger warnings for these articles for sexual abuse and hom..."
Asimov's Foundation series was one of my favorites when I was a kid and didn't really notice those things. A few years back I decided to read the entire Robot/Empire/Foundation series in order. I got to maybe book 3 in the series and I just had to stop, too much blatant sexism, and with my knowledge now of what an awful person he was to women irl, I had to stop reading.
Around the Year in 52 Books
Books mentioned in this topic
Mythos: The Greek Myths Retold (other topics)Go Like Hell: Ford, Ferrari, and Their Battle for Speed and Glory at Le Mans (other topics)
Among Others (other topics)
Dear Fahrenheit 451: Love and Heartbreak in the Stacks (other topics)
The Storied Life of A.J. Fikry (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Renée Ahdieh (other topics)S.A. Chakraborty (other topics)
Stacy Reid (other topics)
James Ellroy (other topics)
Ta-Nehisi Coates (other topics)
More...
Good suggestion, Hannah, I agree that the "avoid" wording could put people off. We did have racism/race relations this year. I personally like hot topic or current event/issue. A subject you want to know more about is really broad, it could be ancient history or a country you haven't visited or how the dress was made for Queen Elizabeth's wedding (The Gown is about that.) There's nothing wrong with a fiction book that has you learn something but it doesn't keep your emphasis on confronting something.
Of course, sometimes we don't know what information a fiction book will give us before we read it. Years ago, I read The Longings of Women for a book group. It's not the author's best book, but one story arc is about a middle-class woman who becomes homeless after a divorce and what she has to do to get through each day. This impressed me more with the issue of homelessness than any nonfiction article or book had. But I had no idea that was any part of the book before I read it. (Personally, that isn't a problem, I love when prompts are filled by serendipity, but some people like to plan everything out.)