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Announcement: Change to handling of non-book items lacking ISBN or ASIN
rivka wrote: "If a book record with no ISBN/ASIN fails to meet our criteria for inclusion in the database, Goodreads Librarians will now NAB it if it has reviews, rather than deleting the book record entirely."Should the title be edited?
There are a lot of books in many countries which do not use ISBN. Furthermore most old books have no ISBN. For example, on my shelves I have more than two thousands books without ISBN. ISBN is not a good criteria to judge a book outside USA!
Dario wrote: "There are a lot of books in many countries which do not use ISBN. Furthermore most old books have no ISBN. For example, on my shelves I have more than two thousands books without ISBN. ISBN is not ..."It is not saying that only items with ISBNs are books.
This is about items in the database that do not qualify as books *and* do not have ISBNs. Previously they were deleted completely; now they will simply be moved to a different area, as we did with those that had ISBNs.
I know I've pushed the limits on what can be included quite a few times for pre-published and shorter works, but this is at least a solid compromise on the policy.
Stories that have been published in a magazine but not published separately still get merged into the magazine, though, is that correct?
Thanks for the heads up! In the past I have felt really bad when I've had to delete short stories that were published in magazines without a merge target. Knowing that they can just be NABbed now is good news.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Stories that have been published in a magazine* but not published separately still get merged into the magazine, though, is that correct?"*or in a collection, I presume?
rivka wrote: "Hi Goodreads Librarians,As per the updated section of the Librarian Manual, we have changed our policy regarding non-book items which lack an ISBN or ASIN. This change will allow us to preserve u..."
ISBN wasn't devised until 1967. Even after then many mainstream publishers didn't use it until the mid 1970s. I have, & have reviewed or hope to review, thousands of books from before that time. One of my purposes as a reviewer here is to bring obscure content to the attention of a wider public. For example: I have books from the 19th century that I consider of great interest that may never be digitized or reprinted. I hope to review some of those someday. I also have an interest in small presses & artist's books. Even today, these rarely have ISBN numbers. Many such books represent the creme de là creme of cutting edge creative work in the arts & poetry. Since the concern of the makers & the publishers is non-commercial, having an ISBN is largely irrelevant. I've written & had published 15 books. Only the 10th, 12th, 13th, 14th, & 15th have ISBNs. Those books coincide with my use & other publishers' use of POD (Print-on-Demand). I honestly don't understand why this desire for exclusion criteria has come about. Is the Goodreads database so glutted? Whatever the reasoning, I strongly caution Goodreads librarians to not be in a hurry to remove any content. Rash action might be the literary equivalent of killing an endangered species because it hasn't been identified by a corporate team about to raze a forest to make room for cattle grazing land. Even "NAB"bing it seems rash to me: I have at least one artist's book that's asemic writing. Therefore, "untitled books where no verifiable publication information about the book exists" would apply - &, yet, this book, which I feel very lucky to've found, is highly unusual - what if it's important to people interested in such things? Because it's asemic writing there's no title or credit in any known language. As a connoisseur of the unusual, I don't think this book should disappear from public record simply because it doesn't fall into bureaucratic nooks.
tENTATIVELY, wrote: "ISBN wasn't devised until 1967. Even after then many mainstream publishers didn't use it until the mid 1970s. I have, & have reviewed or hope to review, thousands of books from before that time."Again, this is regarding NON-BOOK items.
rivka wrote: "Hi Goodreads Librarians,As per the updated section of the Librarian Manual, we have changed our policy regarding non-book items which lack an ISBN or ASIN. This change will allow us to preserve u..."
good to know
Thanks for the new info :-)
tENTATIVELY, wrote: "... one artist's book [is] asemic writing."I was delighted to learn what asemic writing is after looking it up because of reading your post. May I offer that asemic writing appears to be more like a painting than a book, that is, a textual composition? I wouldn't expect Goodreads to catalog the paintings by Matisse, Warhol, Rockwell, or Mehretu. Although it may be configured like a book, with binding and covers, I don't see that it fits Goodreads well. That said, I, too, don't think it should disappear from the public record.
err, can you clarify this please? You suck up everything from Amazon, whether we ask you to or not, and now you want us to do your data cleaning for you? For a new set of criteria you have created? And if we don't data clean for you, we, as authors, will get punished?
A.J. wrote: "err, can you clarify this please? You suck up everything from Amazon, whether we ask you to or not, and now you want us to do your data cleaning for you? For a new set of criteria you have created?..."You're not a librarian so you don't have to do anything.
And it isn't any more work for us, either (in fact it's less), just a change.
I just want to say that I uploaded 500 numbers of a periodical of 650 numbers, which is on since the 60s. Periodicals are comics and from Italy (I am from Serbia). Periodicals didn't have ISBN until the 90s, and later when they did, I couldn't add the info because I am from Serbia, and they are from Italy, internet info is scarce and you basically have to hold a physical copy of the thing to get the ISBN. They rarely have text reviews.Then I uploaded 400 nubers for another periodical from Italy.
And then there are Serbian periodicals without ISBN because we group our ISBNs so 25 different numbers of the publication have the same ISBN. So ISBN doesn't get written in.
And now IT GETS DELETED?!
Are you joking? Months of work?!
So, 100 first numbers of Italian comics are ok, they have stars and have been added to shelves. But 500 numbers have still random readers adding it to their shelves. It's fresh and it is enormous body of work... And random numbers get deleted?! Please tell me that I misunderstood all of this.
Mod
No.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Stories that have been published in a magazine but not published separately still get merged into the magazine, though, is that correct?"
lethe wrote: "*or in a collection, I presume?"
Yes. Non-book items that are being merged (rather than deleted completely) into a valid collection -- of whatever format -- may still be merged.
Sofia wrote: "What exactly is NAB in this case?"Not A Book
It's a designation used for imported items that do not fit GR's definition of a book that might import again if deleted. (The ISBN in the system would prevent another import.)
The change is that now we will use them for non-ISBN/ASIN items to preserve user reviews.
Thank you for including me in this update
Thanks for the update. It makes me sad that GR has changed so much.
Vladimir wrote: "I just want to say that I uploaded 500 numbers of a periodical of 650 numbers, which is on since the 60s. Periodicals are comics and from Italy (I am from Serbia). Periodicals didn't have ISBN unti..."> And now IT GETS DELETED?!
My understanding is that BEFORE the change they were getting deleted in ALL cases when a librarian saw them, and NOW they will be deleted only if they have no reviews.
I am sorry to hear about the work, I got some of my entries deleted in the past as well (but nothing as massive as your work).
:(
Vonze wrote: "Thanks for the update. It makes me sad that GR has changed so much."The changes are for the better. But just the fact of change makes many people psychologically uncomfortable. The classic self-help book, which I would like to recommend for those feeling adverse to change simply because it's change, is the following: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...
Can you clear this up for me please.... are you saying that GR will delete my authors books cus she self publishes and doesn't have isbn numbers attached to her listing's of books. How do I help her in this??
Sherryle wrote: "Can you clear this up for me please.... are you saying that GR will delete my authors books cus she self publishes and doesn't have isbn numbers attached to her listing's of books. How do I help he..."This policy applies to non-book items only. And it is a change to not delete those items when they have been shelved and/or rated.
Sherryle wrote: "Can you clear this up for me please.... are you saying that GR will delete my authors books cus she self publishes and doesn't have isbn numbers attached to her listing's of books. How do I help he..."The initial post clearly refers to non-book items.
Pls explain to me what i need to do to add a book without isbn to a series. Write a review? There are ebooks released directly by author, without a publisher yet.For example:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...
Ive bought it from authors official site, it has no physical copy and no isbn yet. Is it not a book and will not be added? What am i reading right now? Im a little bit confused.
Vladimir wrote: "I just want to say that I uploaded 500 numbers of a periodical of 650 numbers, which is on since the 60s. Periodicals are comics and from Italy (I am from Serbia). Periodicals didn't have ISBN until."Most periodicals have never been permitted. This is not a new change in that particular policy. Also, most periodicals do not have ISBNs; most have ISSNs.
Thanks Elizabeth (Alaska) & Scott :D
Борис wrote: "Pls explain to me what i need to o to add a book without isbn to a series. Write a review? There are ebooks released directly by author, without a publisher yet."That has nothing to do with this issue at all. If you would like a series created for books, please post a new request in the Series section.
Scott wrote: "Борис wrote: "Pls explain to me what i need to o to add a book without isbn to a series. Write a review? There are ebooks released directly by author, without a publisher yet."That has nothing to..."
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
99% of what I read is fanfiction, which doesn't have an ISBN number, so what is going to happen? Do I just not enter the stories I am reading anymore?
Tricklem wrote: "99% of what I read is fanfiction, which doesn't have an ISBN number, so what is going to happen? Do I just not enter the stories I am reading anymore?"Anything that was considered a book before is fine. The only thing that has changed is what we do with not-books.
Good to know. If I remember correctly, in years past I lost the review of a short story that had been published in a magazine! Thanks.
Owen wrote: "So by “non book items”, does this mean that any articles I read which I marked down from the New Yorker (the magazine) would potentially be removed?"Yes. Those are not books.
Owen wrote: "So by “non book items”, does this mean that any articles I read which I marked down from the New Yorker (the magazine) would potentially be removed?"They have always been removed as librarians come across them. If a story appears in a book or anthology it is usually merged with that.
rivka wrote: "…should now only be deleted if they have zero text reviews."To clarify: if an entry in a review field is clearly spam—either unrelated to the (not-a-)book itself, or more spam by the spam author of the spam not-a-book—that counts zero toward the review count, and the record may still be deleted, yes?
Mary wrote: "Thanks for sending the update. What are non-book items?"The linked Librarian Manual section gives the following examples of what is not-a-book, among others that are a bit more obscure:
• easel
• movies (DVD or VHS)
• television episodes
• music (esp soundtracks) (but not bound sheet music)
• stationery
• posters
• board games
• tshirts
• toys
• stuffed animals/dolls
• bookmarks
• stickers
• puzzles (as opposed to puzzle books)
• video games (including visual novels)
• zines
Those used to get deleted out of hand; now, if they have reviews, they will get labeled as "not a book" instead of simply being deleted (if I read aright).
As someone who has been pushing for a stop to the deletion of some non-book items and more consideration regarding users’ reviews, this is truly a great news to hear! I still mourn those few reviews of mine, but good to know our complaints don’t go unheard and change is on the horizon.The Goodreads staff has my deepest thanks!
Mod
Goodreads Librarians should not be deleting items they believe to be spam. They should be flagging them and/or reporting them via the Contact Us link.
rivka wrote: "Hi Goodreads Librarians,As per the updated section of the Librarian Manual, we have changed our policy regarding non-book items which lack an ISBN or ASIN. This change will allow us to preserve u..."
Non-book, I think magazine is considered as non-book right?
rivka wrote: "If a book record with no ISBN/ASIN fails to meet our criteria for inclusion in the database, Goodreads Librarians will now NAB it if it has reviews, rather than deleting the book record entirely. Items without an ISBN or ASIN which fail to meet our criteria for inclusion and that have shelvings and/or ratings, but which have no reviews, may be deleted as previously.."Ok ... so ... if it is a non-book with no ISBN/ASIN ... where, exactly, will this "NAB" notation be placed? In the area where the ISBN/ASIN number typically goes? Or will it be placed in the "synopsis" area for the book, or will it have it's own 'text section' in the book data?
And thank you for the listing of non-books, in the comment above - much appreciated. I'm not understanding why some things - toys or t-shirts, for example - would be listed on GoodReads anyway.... they are clearly not books.
WillowRaven wrote: "Ok ... so ... if it is a non-book with no ISBN/ASIN ... where, exactly, will this "NAB" notation be placed? In the area where the ISBN/ASIN number typically goes? Or will it be placed in the "synopsis" area for the book, or will it have it's own 'text section' in the book data?..."NOT A BOOK is placed in the author field and goes to the NOT A BOOK author profile. As it has always been done.
WillowRaven wrote: "I'm not understanding why some things - toys or t-shirts, for example - would be listed on GoodReads anyway.... they are clearly not books. ..."
This is why NAB was originally conceived, for NOT BOOKS. Items sometimes have isbns or asins so are automatically imported into the database. We can't just delete them as they would be reimported, so we NAB them.
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As per the updated section of the Librarian Manual, we have changed our policy regarding non-book items which lack an ISBN or ASIN. This change will allow us to preserve user reviews and easily restore them if the book record falls into a gray area requiring a re-examination of our rules. Non-book items without an ISBN/ASIN should now only be deleted if they have zero text reviews.
If a book record with no ISBN/ASIN fails to meet our criteria for inclusion in the database, Goodreads Librarians will now NAB it if it has reviews, rather than deleting the book record entirely. Items without an ISBN or ASIN which fail to meet our criteria for inclusion and that have shelvings and/or ratings, but which have no reviews, may be deleted as previously.