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November 9
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November 9 Final Thoughts
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Also the way the wrote the girl, I initially thought she was in her 20s or 30s until she mentioned the fire was only 2 years ago. She's acting like her dating life was over because no one looked at her in 2 years, but she's only 18? Seriously, I didn't go on a serious date until i was 18, and even then it was more because I thought i "should" than because I really wanted to. After a few failed attempts I didn't date again until i was 20. So tired of this narrative that ALL women must date young, must have sex as teens, or there's something wrong with them or it's a source of shame or something. Also the obsession over her career being over, when again, she's only 18.
I read another very angry 1 star review and it sounded like it got even creepier and more controlling so I decided to just bow out. Maybe there's some twist later that makes it more compelling, but I just didn't want to invest the time to get there.
I'm totally willing to accept that other people might not be as affected as these things by me, so I don't want to make people feel bad if they did like it! I'd be interested to hear if it got better, or what people did like about it.
I made it all the way through. I enjoy an occasional brain candy romance now and then, as well as a silly rom com where I know what is going to happen, so this seemed like it would be fine. A little heavy on the cliches, but I can ignore those for some decent banter. But it was a little like eating caramel corn that you enjoy it at first but keep eating and then it starts getting too sweet but you're almost done so you keep going. Didn't really care for the twist, it was sortof creepy. I was also surprised that it wasn't a young adult book by my library; in other reviews it's classified as "NA" for new adult which I didn't know was a thing. In looking at other reviews, this author seems to have a lot of ardent fans, but some of them didn't like this one compared to others.
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My comments feel kind of random but here goes.
Yes, @sheri, the age thing was so crazy unbelievable to me. I have 3 20-something kids, and for someone 16 or 18 years old coming from her background doing these things, it was totally unrealistic for me. Just not overlapping with my experience. My middle child moved to NYC at 21, and one does not just "show up" with a suitcase at 18 and hope it all works out there.
I found the premise kind of silly too. No current person their age would not have each other's phone number nor way to contact. Okay maybe year 1 for the novelty. But after that, it would not be an "oversight". I found that premise annoying after a while. The initial "can't make a commitment until age 23" seemed rigid and strange too.
Like @sheri, it would have been more realistic for this people to be in their mid-20s at least. Teenagers sharing an apartment like they were felt about 5 years too early at least.
The initial contact where Ben just butts into Fallon's conversation with her Dad to set up the story and "go with it" to pretending he's her boyfried - that is just weird. I found the self-confidence issue draining. It felt overused. I have no idea what trauma burn victims go through, and it would be interesting to hear their perspective on how this book handles that. But it didn't specifically resonate with me. He was so creepy, with the panties/commando discussion. He was creepy in so many ways and so many times.
The "twist" in the story was a bit out there for me. So much of it seemed contrived to me, and, per so much else, just not realistic. It did not generate the sympathy for Ben's character.
Reading reviews online so many people love this book and love this author. I really cannot understand why. I am not motivated to seek out this author again. Reading reviews of this book specifically, it seems most people were either 5 stars or 1 star (sometimes saying they wish they could give 0). So this book gives people strong feelings.
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So do any of you think you were reading with a more critical eye than you usually would? I'm pretty sure I went in with a "wonder why some people (whom I usually have pretty compatible book taste with) couldn't get through it attitude that made me more on the lookout for problems than I normally would have.
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It's possible, but I also think that a lot of the problematic bits would have bugged me no matter what. I don't mind romance in my books, but I rarely seek out romance as a genre, because so many of these tropes pop up and they bug me, so I think I would have already come in with my hackles up, so to speak.
I've never heard the term "New Adult" for this genre. Does it mean new as in newly-turned-adults - early 20s? or new as in contemporary?
Shel wrote: "Kathy wrote: "So do any of you think you were reading with a more critical eye than you usually would? I'm pretty sure I went in with a "wonder why some people (whom I usually have pretty compatibl..."From the context of a review, someone was saying that this should have been classified as YA or NA, so I'm going for a New Adult as someone over 18 but not by much. I'm wondering if NA might be racier level of YA.
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I read this quickly as well, and found it split between sweet and cringey. Even apart from the relationship stuff, within the first few pages Fallon describes herself as "a bit obsessive-compulsive when it comes to hygiene." That's certainly something I could've said at 18 a couple decades ago, and maybe an 18-year-old would still say it today, but the author was an adult in 2015 and she should have phrased it differently; I don't think it's needed for authenticity or anything.I was less put off by the ages than everyone else seems to be. For one thing, as a child actress, Fallon has been exposed to more than most people would be at her age. The book doesn't really go into her experiences beyond the mandatory school thing, but just extrapolating from what I've heard about and from actual child actors, she must've been thrust into adulthood at least a little bit. Like, I couldn't have been upset at 18 that my career was over, because I hadn't had one, but Fallon had, she'd presumably made some money, I can see her feeling like she's old enough to live independently even if others her age wouldn't. She does at least have a job already when she goes to New York.
The twist certainly does recontextualize some of the previous moments and give them a creepier interpretation. Even if Ben really believes that he meant everything he said, you have to wonder what part his guilt played in his emotional responses to Fallon. Also from that point there were other twists and reversals that felt kind of emotionally manipulative, like the author grabbed the feelings joystick and was jerking it around.
I think it's possible I was more critical after hearing others' reactions, but I don't think I would have loved the book anyway. Some of the issues (like the panties thing) were just too obvious.
I finally sat down and read this. I enjoyed it for what it was romantic brain candy. I didn't let myself analyze the characters while reading and am just now starting to think more about them.I usually am kind of eh on books that change perspective between the main characters. But sometimes it is helpful to see the different points of view to the events in the story. In my opinion, this could have been a great plot driver for this story. Except, Ben is a flat character.
The twist at the end has so much grief and sorrow explaining why November 9 was a devastating day for both of them. However, we have known about Fallon's reasons the whole book. To suddenly be hit with Ben's reasons in the last twenty pages felt contrived and rushed. It would have made Ben a much more believable character if some of that grief and teen angst had shown up in his narrative earlier.In all, it was an ok book, but could have been better.
OK, the library finally came through for me last week, so I've now read it at long last. I touched on some things in the check-in thread for this week, but to respond to a few specific items others have mentioned:1. The Age Thing. This is a recurring thing with Colleen Hoover, that her characters are usually somewhere in the 17-23 range, but they own businesses and property, seemingly have independent access to credit cards, cell phones, and internet access, and if parents enter into the picture at all, they're basically the Charlie Brown grownups. Several people in one of my IRL book clubs have Strong Feelings on this subject, but I'm not one of them. Sure, it's completely unrealistic in many of her scenarios (as was pointed out, at least this time Fallon had her own age-appropriate career) - but so are many other things in tropey genre fiction. Since all characters in all of her books operate within this same reality, it doesn't tend to come up as a plot issue - all of the characters are in the same age range, so there's not a lot of basis for comparison.
2. The NA Genre. I do not work in publishing, but I did work in a bookstore in a long ago and far away stage of life. There has always been a certain subset of books that are a bit more YA-ish in reading level and plot, but have too much cursing, sex, violence, etc. to be published as YA. They've never really been collectively marketed as a genre until recently, and while I'm not a fan of the NA name, I think it's a positive thing that publishers are making them easier to find. There is absolutely a huge market out there for YA-style stories with more adult content (look at the number of adults who read YA), and eventually someone will come along with a better way to market it.
3. The Premise Being Overly Contrived/Feeling Forced. I think even Colleen would agree with that - her next book (or at least one that followed fairly soon afterwards - she publishes A LOT), Maybe Someday, has a similarly improbable premise, but specifically comments on the problems caused by building up a certain date/event as the time to get together. The outlandish premises are her what Colleen is known for (this one is not at the far end of the continuum), so it would be disappointing to pick up one of her books and have emotionally mature characters meet in church, at work, etc. But I do wonder if the reason this is a one-off (more on that shortly) is partially because of the likelihood that Fallon and Ben have built each other and their relationship up so much in their expectations that what actually happens could never live up to it.
4. The Creepiness Factor. Looked at objectively, Ben's actions are not just creepy, they border on psychotic. If I met someone like that in real life in any context, I would cross the street/wait for the next elevator/get my food to go/etc. But you could say that about the guys in many popular books and movies if you describe what they did outside of the context of their story. I think what I like about this book is the way it's presented at face value - yep, he did this, and it's super creepy, but we're not going to talk about that - it is what it is. As opposed to the bazillion marriage proposals, finagled introductions, personalized dates, etc. that are presented as completely romantic and non-problematic elsewhere but are just as stalkerish.
5. Character Perspective Shifts. This is another trademark of Colleen's books - sometimes there are more than two characters that it shifts between. Personally, I think she does a good enough job of keeping the voices distinct that it doesn't get confusing, and it is 100% a contrived way to build suspense - but it works. That's what keeps you reading - you want to find out what you missed while you were with the other character, so everyone's motives emerge gradually as you read. What did surprise me about this one, though, is that it was all one book. More typically, there will be a book with shifting perspectives, but one character is clearly the primary narrator, so even when we're getting other perspectives, that character is centered. Then, shortly thereafter, there will be a sequel (sometimes full-length, sometimes novella) with some overlapping events but additional action before or after the original book's plot, that centers a different character. There are a couple that have a third installment from yet another character. So, by that standard, I think one of the grievances from people who like her other books was that Ben's part of this one felt rushed. We get his whole story in a few pretty dense chapters at the end, where Fallon had a much more leisurely reveal over the course of the rest of the book. I'm not sure why Colleen did it that way (I mean, the sequel title is RIGHT THERE - November 10), but I agree that it did feel rushed at the end. Personally, I would have rather just had another chapter or two to break things up a little rather than a whole separate book with Ben's story, so it wasn't a huge problem for me, but it was unusual for her.
So there you have it - I doubt that most of you will be exploring Colleen's oeuvre further in the future, but if anyone else reads other things by her in the future, I will look forward to hearing your thoughts in the check-in threads. :)
I apologize but I just can't get through this book, and there's no pre-made reading guides for it online. So for this one I'm just putting up this final thoughts page. Feel free to give any thoughts you have, and if anyone else has any questions they want to ask, post them here!