SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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Fate of the Fallen
Group Reads Discussions 2021
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"Fate of the Fallen" Discuss Everything *Spoilers*
Chapter 8not particularly spoilery, but just a question for anyone further along as I am...
... does it get more interesting? Or is it just adventure and humor and gore, like any other quest fantasy? Based on the hook, I really want to like this... but I can only sit still for one chapter at a time and even though I'm more than 1/3 in I want to stop....
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I think I'm gonna stop then. Thank you.
<> spoilers chapters 1 thru 4 Did anyone notice that losing one's head was mentioned several times? It could be that I only noticed the references because it's a re-read for me.
Sorry, I forgot how to unbold!
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Michelle, no I didn't notice that! The head-losing and what happens after it actually came as a total surprise to me, I think I literally looked like the :o emoji :D
I know! Me, too! It was quite the shock, and I really felt sorry for Aaslo, too.
Damn, now I want to listen to the beginning again!
I think of Aaslo and Mathias as Ben and Klaus from Umbrella Academy if their roles were reversed. LOL
Michelle wrote: "Did anyone notice that losing one's head was mentioned several times?"
Yes! How many times was the word head mentioned in this book? Is it possible to do a search for the word on an e-reader? Hmm. Anyway, I thought it was funny each time. I thought the talking head was funny too, so maybe that's why I noticed.
Danah wrote: "Michelle wrote: "Did anyone notice that losing one's head was mentioned several times?"
Yes! How many times was the word head mentioned in this book? Is it possible to do a search for the word on..."
You could do a search on your kindle! Now I'm curious, too, but I'm at work. (Don't tell my boss that I'm on goodreads!)
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And then when we get beyond that, switching from the reluctant hero to the guy who's just stuck holding the bag was super endearing; that we deal with his trauma throughout, also nice; that instead of going on a quest for heroes, the heroes seem to be on a quest to find him, and he just needs to show up. It was all so playful and kind about how it inverted things, I thought it was really novel in that regard for epic fantasy.
What also boggled my mind was how all of the Rich and Powerful- including the magi- just wanted to fatalistically roll over and give up. No Gandalf here!
I liked Teza, and I loved the horse! I found Aaslo to be a very sympathetic character, too.
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I thought it was an interesting take on the "prophecy" trope. Like, if you really believed in prophecy, what would that do to all these stories? A bit too far in some cases for me, (like, I'd at least want to try to make it so my grandkids got to have a good life before the world ended? I think?) but another fun twist for me on the usual.
Ah, sorry, Kate! That's a shame that she didn't work for you. Onward!
I finished it yesterday and my final verdict is that I need the next book right now. It took until almost halfway through before it really grabbed me and it took a while for Aaslo to grow on me. He also had some nice character progression that made him more sympathetic though. I love the reluctant hero trope and turning it around so that basically the sidekick has to pick up the pieces and try to save the world was a great interpretation.
I didn't really understand Teza and her motivations. She kind of came out of nowhere and just hung around for... reasons? The two thieves made more sense and I liked them and their storyline. Excellent character progression. I'm still not sure if the prophet (can't remember his name) was annoying or amusing. Loved the horse and really want to find out what's going on with him. I have guesses but hopefully it gets explained in the next book.
Myropa's parts were interesting although it's more difficult for me to like such a passive character with so little agency. I felt bad for her and want her to be freed but it took me a while to like her too. I did like the indifferent gods playing games with humanity and all with hidden agendas and secretly undermining each other.
The magic could've been explained a little better and the multiverse aspects didn't entirely make sense. I generally prefer more worldbuilding than this had but since it's such a character driven book I'll give it a pass on that one.
Caillen wrote: "I finished it yesterday and my final verdict is that I need the next book right now. "That was my verdict too.
FINISHEDThis could have been okay but there was too much about the writing that annoyed me. The way characters tended to relay information felt very info-dumpy and not how people talk, starting with Magdelay explaining the whole situation with Mathias and the prophecy, and picking back up just about every time a new character showed up. The sections with Myropa and the gods were more subtle and agreed with me more, but weren't enough to carry the rest for me.
Similarly with the plot, a lot of plot points seemed to resolve themselves too easily. Aaslo just happens to befriend a nobleman who can help him later, and then there just happens to be a Foresters' haven in the middle of the city to provide him food and lodging, and then later the person he's on a journey looking for happens to drop in on him in the middle of nowhere (to tell him that he and everyone else is completely screwed, but still).
Honestly I think the main thing that bothered me, though, was that Aaslo keeps talking to Mathias in front of people. It seems apparent early on that Mathias can hear or at least pick up on his thoughts, but even if he couldn't, you'd think that by the fifteenth awkward misunderstanding he might learn to shut the hell up until they're alone? I get that it's supposed to be funny but after the first couple times it just made me really uncomfortable, and I think I had to deliberately distance myself from Aaslo to be able to keep reading.
message 22:
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Allison, Fairy Mod-mother
(last edited Jan 05, 2021 05:51PM)
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rated it 4 stars
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Re: things lining up, I again took this as a reversal of a trope. So often the heroes are on a quest to find someone specific or "as prophesized" and they're just conveniently found. Here, we have sort of the anti-prophecy. The people he needs are the ones he doesn't want, and the fun for me there was kinda the nose-tweaking at people finding the hero instead of the other way around.
Amanda re: talking to Mathias, my interpretation of that was that when he can hear his friend just like he'd never died, it's hard for him to remember in the moment, and several of the remarks were quite cutting, obviously intended for reaction. But agreed, I think he took a bit too long to start getting around that trend. That's actually one of the things I liked best as a mystery looming over us--why is he acting so different now that he's "dead"? I like that she at least said that while Aaslo could hear Mathias, Aaslo recognized this thing he's hearing isn't actually his friend.
Allison wrote: "I like that she at least said that while Aaslo could hear Mathias, Aaslo recognized this thing he's hearing isn't actually his friend."Do you mean 'she' the author? I'm not to the end yet, at 70%. I came here to find out how Mathias' head can see through the bag. Or is whatever Aaslo is talking to not really Mathias? I would think that it is all in A's own mind except that the book is a fantasy.
Also, what is the deal with this Celestrina or whatever, the other realm where Myropa goes off to?
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But also what carried this book for me was the humor- this is very close to my own sense of humor in real life (dry/sarcastic), and there were a couple of scenes with the horse that made me lol.
Chapter 14 (55%)So, I’m really enjoying it for the most part. One thing that has been annoying me slightly is how often Aaslo gets caught saying stuff to Mathias. Sometimes, Mathias reacts and comments on stuff that Aaslo just thinks, so when other people are around why doesn’t he just “think” his retorts to Mathias rather than getting himself in trouble all the time? It’s getting a little old the “oh, I wasn’t talking to you” routine.
spoilers!!!I'm nearly finished with the book, and my main issue with it is that not much has happened to progress the plot post decapitation.
With LotR, we at least know that we need to toss a ring in a volcano, but at around 75% done in Fate of the Fallen, we literally have the same "go find someone" objective as we did in the beginning. Go find the king, go find Grams, and now go find fairies. I feel like I'm in an RPG where the admins hid all quest NPCs, and I am forever seeking that character out and never starting the quest. lol. At 75%, we have little to no intel on the baddies other than that scene where Grams sees the ritual and the occasional dialog between gods.
I'm really hoping that the climax of this book offsets the turtle pacing. If only for the glorious Dolt's sake, please let the climax be worthy of his leather-eating self!
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1. Characters - i loved Dolt, liked Tesa and the thieves. Aaslo, Mathias and the grandma sorceress were fine but did not stick around long. Intrigued by the Marquis.2. Inversion of tropes a surprise? Yes indeed. Was sure they would find a way to resurrect The Chosen One.
3. What worked or didn't - Humor was not awful, but the lightheartedness combined with such a bleak outlook kept me from believing in the story or really caring about the people.
4. Overall thoughts - How did the head see through the bag?????? And couldn't they have communicated telepathically?
Never figured out anything about that Celestrina world (had initial burst of hope the gods were post-humans and this was really science fiction!) and so had to force myself to read through those sections. No clear journey, although that was part of the light / ironic tone I suppose, then it brought to my mind some of the middle Belgariad (Queen of Sorcery et al) books, not a good sign.
Not my cup of tea but I will remember that head in the bag.
Perhaps I am the odd person out on this discussion thread, but so far through chapter 6, I have been immersed in the storyline. The chopping off of Mathias's head by his best friend did surprise me. I should offer though that this is my first post, first book, first fantasy book in my first ever reading community. Also sounds like I need to read faster but then I am reading three quite different books at the same time. Enjoy reading all the posts and thoughts.
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I'm glad you're with me on this! I was surprised throughout because I feel I've read "this story" so many times and it kept taking turns I didn't see coming.
Clyde wrote: "Perhaps I am the odd person out on this discussion thread, but so far through chapter 6, I have been immersed in the storyline. The chopping off of Mathias's head by his best friend did surprise me..."Yeah, don't worry about pacing. I'm reading several books simultaneously as well. Also, the different opinions on the books we read is what makes this group fantastic. :) It's cool to see all of the opinions.
Clyde, I was starting to wonder if there was something wrong with me because I also found it immersive! I'm glad you're enjoying it. I already pre-ordered the sequel.
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Probably the characters and macabre sense of humor. Although I tend to have a bit of a morbid sense of humor myself, so maybe that was the draw. Even though that thread runs through the book, she, (The author), managed to tug my heartstrings as far as Aaslo is concerned. The whole situation was hopeless; yet he was trying to pick up the pieces and keep himself together at the same time. Characters either make or break stories for me, and these characters were just appealing. And that includes Dolt!
(finished)I definitely enjoyed the satire. The author grabbed some fantasy tropes, flipped them on their heads, stabbed them with a bread knife and then planted some flowers on top. As in: both the plot and the characters were completely absurd and I found it both funny and generally entertaining. That's why I didn't care for things that I would see in other books as plot holes, conveniences or lack of character development. Whatever was thrown at me, I just went with it.
The only thing that really grated on my nerves was Aaslo who never learned and kept talking to his dead friend in public (as some people already mentioned earlier in the thread).
It's just that, for some reason, the story just didn't suck me in. Roughly halfway through the book I got bored and my attention was just never grabbed again. I think this story would work better for me a standalone novella, not a whole novel series.
I have just finished the book.For me, this is 100% a YA title, start to finish. I think that in the age group of 14-19 years old, the humor and plot devices would sell really well. I think that age group would love it, but that's not to say adults cannot as well!
Where I agree with the people who liked it: (a) the thieves (b) the horse.
Where I disagree: This was not dark humor to me. The few times I thought dark humor was about to happen, the plot went slapstick. (again, great for YA...no judgment). I'm not a big fan of the main character and could not buy into the idea that people would give up so easily and not fight to the bitter end. Even as an inversion schtick, I just couldn't buy it. Mammals (including humans) don't need a hero to tell them to fight for survival. Ask any cornered animal, but I digress.
Simply put, I thought it was a solid YA fantasy story, not the inversion of fantasy tropes I was hoping for. Still, I'm glad I read the entire thing.
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Allison wrote: "Interesting, it must be either a very different type of ya and epic fantasy that we read or things struck me differently! Did others see inversions? What books did you feel it referenced and sort o...":) Could be. That's the lovely thing about art (whether written or painted), we don't always see the same thing. But, that's what makes this fun.
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I am also delighted to wonder if the prophecy is going to change somehow or if Kade will just kill everyone off at the end. Could go either way I think.
I get and agree, partially, about the YA comment but it felt more nuanced and morally ambiguous than most of the books I label as YA.
message 40:
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Allison, Fairy Mod-mother
(last edited Jan 12, 2021 12:21PM)
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rated it 4 stars
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One of my goals last year and continuing into this year was to encourage more conversation beyond "liked or didn't like it" type thoughts--which are still totally welcome, but I'd love to dive a bit deeper in! So if you have any thoughts about the questions I've posed or questions you'd like to ask others, that'd be really great!
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Yes it surprised me! I did a good job of not reading any reviews or chatter about the book before reading the book so that was a fantastic change from the normal.
Other than the ones you listed, I liked the fact that there were no obviously evil rulers. The king was lame of course but the Marquis was actually helpful.
I also like Aaslo being given all these powers. He isn't some long lost orphan with hidden powers or some half blooded elf from the forest. First he has nothing, then he has a "dumb" horse, then he has a sweet dragon arm and then he has the power to raise the dead which is generally regarded as an evil power in most books.
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I had mixed feelings about the book but ended up really enjoying it and looking forward to the next. The writing was choppy at times and at it felt somewhat like a first book from an author with potential to improve. That's not the case here but that was my overall impression. The story and characters were good enough for me to overlook some of it.I wouldn't call it YA but then so much is labeled as YA from such a broad range of books that it's become an extremely nebulous category. It's very, very subjective. Maybe I'd consider it on the upper end of that gradient. Truly young adults rather than younger teenagers.
As for inversions, there are so many tropes that have become so commonly used that they're almost clichés. It's not that this book had inversions that have never been done before, but that it flipped those typically seen, overdone, tropes.
How to Defeat a Demon King in Ten Easy Steps did something similar, although it's basically satire. The protagonist is not the prophesied chosen who was the only who could save the world, but rather an ordinary person who saw the desperate situation and decided, through persistence and trickery, to become a hero who might be able to bypass the prophecy.
I think that Fate of the Fallen, while flawed, did a decent job of inverting tropes or at least using tropes that are fairly rare. It is very interesting to me how there are so many divided opinions and perceptions of it though.
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Re Allison: That is a nice way of putting it.After all the responses, I feel I should clarify why I considered it YA. :) To be clear, I do not consider YA to be bad.
(a) The love/lust/romance in the book seemed "teenagery" to me. (Aaslo, Myropa, the God of Virility, the Queen...etc.)
(b) There were several points that made the story feel a bit "abracadabra" plot point fixed.
(Example: Exposure to fire can cause "hydrophobic proteins (to) bind together tightly" i.e. cauterizes wounds. On the other hand, chopping off an arm can cause death very quickly via blood loss. The dragon arm is fun. I just didn't believe Aaslo was dying quickly by a burnt arm, but I could be wrong...not a doctor.)
(c) The humor and dialog felt a little cartoonish for me. (Again, not a bad thing.)
Without going into too fine of detail, those are some of the reasons why I felt it better fit in the YA category. You all are well within your rights to completely disagree with me :)
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the head for sure was a bit cartoonish, but it sounds like the author has a plan for why, and I'm eager to learn it!
Yeah, I reread the burn section a couple of times to be sure. He blocks the flames with his arm to shield his face. This results in only minor "sunburn" like injury to his face. When Teza approaches, she indicates the charred arm and left side as the primary issue. Also, there are burns on his neck and shoulder. These injuries would not kill as fast as the arterial spray of a chopped off arm.I have no problem with the plot device used. It just feels like the strange healing choice was an excuse to get a mega-rad lizard arm, and thus seemed cartoonish to me. My husband and I were really hoping that Aaslo died, and that Teza was going to be carrying around two heads, talking to them both and becoming the hero. lol
Also, I agree that whatever plan the author has for the head will likely be entertaining.
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SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
How to Defeat a Demon King in Ten Easy Steps (other topics)Queen of Sorcery (other topics)
We're opening up the spoiler thread day one this time. Don't know if this will last, as the reason we postponed it all these years was to prolong discussion and keep people from feeling pressured to read the book BEFORE the month it was selected for, but new year, gonna try it.
We'll also be trying one other new thing: unhidden but tagged spoilers. Some members said they'd like to try to have ongoing conversations and didn't mind coming to share thoughts in the spoiler thread if they could have some way of knowing where it was safe to look. I'm not sure we can do much there, but we're going to try like this:
SPOILERS CHAPTER 3
and then content there.
Obviously, all things in this thread are spoilers, and we are not using the hide feature because of the app, so if you see this cropping up, that's why!
Try it out and report back in the Q&A thread on your feelings.
Questions to get discussion started:
1. What did you think of the characters?
2. Did the author's inversion of tropes surprise you?
3. What worked or didn't for you?
4. Overall thoughts?
Non-spoiler thread here: First impressions