The Evolution of Science Fiction discussion
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I Am Legend
Group Reads 2020
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Dec2020 BotM - "I Am Legend" by Richard Matheson
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I tried to make it last.... But I have finished already, I love this book so much. Neville's attempts to learn science in order to figure out vampirism.... The writing which is so good....That ending. It always hits me hard it is a perfect ending for the book, without it the whole concept is practically invalidated, but it is so uncompromising...
Leo wrote: "here's what Matheson himself says about the meaning of the book. And more in the article; his opinion about the movies based on it. https://iamlegendarchive.blogspot.com......"
Good article. He has said much the same about Somewhere In Time.
Susan wrote: "If this says something about human nature, then tech only really needs to last as long as the lifetime of the first post-apocalyptic generation. Unfortunately, most stuff won’t last even that long...."I see it more humans adapt to the situation. If the world crashed tomorrow, much of us would pine for air conditioning, refrigerators and the like. Those too young to remember or born after the crash would have no idea and not understand. That stuff would become legend. As silly as it seems, I am old enough to remember my family getting its first color TV and it was a big deal. Now try and explain to this generation that let alone having only one TV in the house. My nieces and nephews were amazed I could run numbers in my head really fast. To me it was no big deal because we were never allowed to use calculators when they came out and I was a teenager when they first appeared. It was considered cheating. They all use the calculator now.
Tech runs both ways, older people tend to get left behind as it progresses and younger tend to adapt much faster to the changes. The flip side it hat older can fall back on older ways because we used them.
Mod
Oh Hell no! I'm not giving up my TV remote! No way I'll walk all the way over there and turn a dial. Those were rough times.
Can you even imagine a dial that goes from Channel 1 to Channel 999?
Papaphilly wrote: "Leo wrote: "here's what Matheson himself says about the meaning of the book. And more in the article; his opinion about the movies based on it. https://iamlegendarchive.blogspot.com......"
Thanks. This is a great site. Your link didn't take me to the interview. This one should go straight there.
https://iamlegendarchive.blogspot.com...
Here's some excerpts I found interesting from Matheson. They seem to agree with some of the things the group has been saying about the book and the films made from it.
"I don't think the book means anything more than it is: the story of a man trying to survive in a world of vampires. If people want to assume it later, that's up to them. It has been said that a writer is entitled to an interpretation of his work that people choose to give it."
"I don't know why Hollywood keeps coming back to the book just to not do it the way I wrote it. The book should have been filmed as is at the time it came out. It's too late now."
"I didn't like The Omega Man."
"Neville was not a monster to me. He was trying to survive, no more. It was an irony that, in the end, he had become the legend, the feared one. I don't believe that the young woman who provided him with the poison regarded him as a monster, merely as a total anomaly in the new society."
Jim wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Leo wrote: "here's what Matheson himself says about the meaning of the book. And more in the article; his opinion about the movies based on it. https://iamlegendarchive.blogspo..."
I think that it is a great book simply because of the good writing and exactly what the author says; it is what it is! Though as a prolific reader, I do find it exciting how much of a genera bender it is, there is horror, fantasy sci-fi, dystopia, social commentary and psychology all rolled into what is in essence a pretty small book. (I think it might be a novella?... ?)
In an aside, since it seems to be impossible to discuss this book without the movies. I first read this as a young teen. I saw The Omega Man after I read it. I utterly refused to believe my stepfather that the movie was based on this book, because they seemed to me to have insufficient in common for that to be true.
I feel Matheson's bewilderment and pain. WHY pretend you are making a movie based on this book and then ignore every single element of the written story.
Ed wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "... older can fall back on older ways because we used them ..."Oh Hell no! I'm not giving up my TV remote! No way I'll walk all the way over there and turn a dial. Those were r..."
I did not have a remote until 1989. I bet you remember steam driven TV too....8^))
Deborah wrote: "I feel Matheson's bewilderment and pain. WHY pretend you are making a movie based on this book and then ignore every single element of the written story...."Unfortunately, it happens all of the time. Soylent Green is a great example. Based on Make Room! Make Room! and it has nothing much in common. World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War is a more modern example. That was nothing like the book, except for zombies.
BTW, both books are great reads.
Jim wrote: ""Neville was not a monster to me. He was trying to survive, no more. It was an irony that, in the end, he had become the legend, the feared one. I don't believe that the young woman who provided him with the poison regarded him as a monster, merely as a total anomaly in the new society."..."I wonder if Richard Matheson is unsure himself (bold added for emphasis). I wonder if he was one of those writers that did not know what was going to happen until it was written.
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It is pretty boring, so I understand why someone would want to spice it up a bit. But this graphic novel adaptation The House on the Borderland by Richard Corben takes it to an extreme. I think it was OK that he added a few more characters and a bit more action, but there was no need for the change made to the main character's sister. In the book she was barely mentioned and just kept to herself. In the graphic novel (view spoiler).
My review.
In message 14 of this discussion about "The tunnel under the world" I explain another ridiculous adaptation to film, this time adding a blood-drinking Martian that has nothing to do with the original story which was about advertising.
My review https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...re his unhinged sexual desire, I saw it as a post-traumatic, and maybe constant witnessing of death leads in Tanathos-Eros style popular in pop-psychology of the time to unconscious urge to recreate
Papaphilly wrote: "Deborah wrote: "I feel Matheson's bewilderment and pain. WHY pretend you are making a movie based on this book and then ignore every single element of the written story...."Unfortunately, it happ..."
I know right! I loved World War Z, both the book and the movie so very different...
I have been looking for a copy of Make Room! Make Room! all year, I really want to re-read it but they seem to be rare as hens teeth.
Oleksandr wrote: "My review https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...re his unhinged sexual desire, I saw it as a post-traumatic, and maybe constant witnessing of death leads in Tanathos-Eros style popular ..."
I have to say... I really cant see any 'unhinged sexual desire' or for that matter any hint of '...most of the time he was just thinking about sex.'
He is a youngish normal/hertero/cis male who has recently lost his wife and is grieving, he is completely isolated socially. In what realistic world would he not think of women occasionally? It is not as if it is mentioned every paragraph.
Deborah wrote: "He is a youngish normal/hertero/cis male who has recently lost his wife and is grieving, he is completely isolated socially. In what realistic world would he not think of women occasionally? It is not as if it is mentioned every paragraph."I agree, My point was more a reply to msgs #12-15 in this thread
Oleksandr wrote: "Deborah wrote: "He is a youngish normal/hertero/cis male who has recently lost his wife and is grieving, he is completely isolated socially. In what realistic world would he not think of women occa..."Valid response then. I mean, sure, the book is old so the social perspective is vintage, but I don't think Neville missing sex is particularly shocking. Compared to the things you find on Tinder, there is nothing NOTHING particularly shocking in this book...
Deborah wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Deborah wrote: "I feel Matheson's bewilderment and pain. WHY pretend you are making a movie based on this book and then ignore every single element of the written story...."Unf..."
have you tried amazon used?
Papaphilly wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Deborah wrote: "I feel Matheson's bewilderment and pain. WHY pretend you are making a movie based on this book and then ignore every single element of the written..."Back in Feb-March when I was actively searching, instead of just whinging, I did.
i just checked Amazon and there are 18 available used.
Papaphilly wrote: "i just checked Amazon and there are 18 available used."Amazon Australia does seem to have one available at the moment ;)
Australia and America, same Earth but different mailing and shipping entities...
At the moment it is even worse as Customs and Quarantine are stopping everything coming in from America from reasons of COVID19
Deborah wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "i just checked Amazon and there are 18 available used."Amazon Australia does seem to have one available at the moment ;)
Australia and America, same Earth but different mailin..."
I figured as much. Sometimes I forget how much access I have to products.
Papaphilly wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "i just checked Amazon and there are 18 available used."Amazon Australia does seem to have one available at the moment ;)
Australia and America, same Earth but ..."
Well, I guess we all do. It has been a learning experience, this last year. I think what many Australians have learned is just how much they rely on Chinese manufacturing.
The AUS/USA divide has always been a bit strange, so many things from here you can't get, so many over there that we can't.
I like to read hard science fiction so books concerning vampires are rarely on my reading list. This one held my attention though perhaps because of the author's attempts to rationalize the condition of the vampire/zombies with a scientific type explanation.I can see why so many films were based on this story.
I rewatched "I Am Legend" with Wil Smith & liked it a lot more. In a smaller picture on my PC, the CGI didn't bother me & I only watched the ending where he dies, not the alternative ending. I think they made a big mistake not including some parts of the AE into the original. Spoiler alert! I figure everyone who is going to has read or seen this by now, so I won't use spoiler tags. I'm not sure they work on the mobile app.
Neville is certain they've reverted to maniacal animals, but in the alternative ending he realizes that the one that is really after him is doing so because Neville took his mate. With that knowledge, the regular ending becomes much better, more poignant. Of course, how the lady & kid manage to stay hidden still doesn't make much sense, but it was altogether a better movie. It doesn't change my ranking from best to worst, but puts this one on par with "The Omega Man" & above I am Omega (2007). I still think the book is best followed by "The Last Man on Earth".
Jim wrote: "I rewatched "I Am Legend" with Wil Smith & liked it a lot more. In a smaller picture on my PC, the CGI didn't bother me & I only watched the ending where he dies, not the alternative ending. I thin..."I still think the worst thing about the movie is the title of it: All it needed to do was dissociate from the book and it would have been fine. 'I Am Will Smith' or 'I Am Holywood' would have been so much more appropriate. "Vampires in New York' maybe?...
Deborah wrote: "The AUS/USA divide has always been a bit strange, so many things from here you can't get, so many over there that we can't."Well, Vegemite seems to be available world-wide. God knows why. Another GR thread commented on the awfulness of Gummy Bears. I agree with that, but Vegemite, for me, has been a once-in-a-lifetime experience!
Good gag line, tho, in the classic video version of "Men Down Under"
"I met a man from Brussels
Six feet tall, and full of muscles
I asked, do you speaka my language?
So he handed me a Vegemite sandwich....
[lyrics from memory. WONDERFUL video!]
Mod
This man has smashed so many bottles and glasses, it must be impossible to walk barefoot in his house anymore.
Ed wrote: "This man has smashed so many bottles and glasses, it must be impossible to walk barefoot in his house anymore."LOL
Peter wrote: "Deborah wrote: "The AUS/USA divide has always been a bit strange, so many things from here you can't get, so many over there that we can't."Well, Vegemite seems to be available world-wide. God kn..."
Gummie bears... Yeah I know them I think, the jelly lollies with vitaminC and so on so that the kiddies are getting something good for them while feeling like they are getting sweets?
Peter wrote: "Deborah wrote: "The AUS/USA divide has always been a bit strange, so many things from here you can't get, so many over there that we can't."Well, Vegemite seems to be available world-wide. God kn..."
Most Aussies in the USA tend to miss other things I gather, like good coffee (I think you mainly have kona coffee) milk, Tim-Tams and pies... I have heard a whole heap of weird things people have missed in the USA, some completely counterintuitive...
Mod
Having finished the story, I finally understand the title, which always puzzled me in the Will Smith movie.
There are several points that seemed illogical, but I'm not obsessing over it. The main thing I don't understand is (view spoiler)
I think I won't read many of the other stories in my collection since most people seem to not like them.
Ed wrote: "I finished it and enjoyed it a lot more than I expected. (I don't normally like zombie stories.) I like that it tried to give a rational explanation for the vampires, even though the explanation di..."Well, my take on it is that if other people ARE immune - and you are right, it is logical they would be - they are probably located where Neville was when he developed the immunity. So, nowhere near where he is now. As he has no communication with the rest of the world it is impossible to say.
I have no idea who Ruth's 'friend' is, but she does not have immunity, she has medicine to control the virus.
Ed wrote: "... I like that it tried to give a rational explanation for the vampires, even though the explanation di..."Old SF 'scientific' explanations often leave a lot to be desired today, don't they? At least it wasn't full of magical radium (ERB) or psychic super powers (Doc Smith).
Mod
I meant to say "friends": the other people in her new society. I assumed they had some partial immunity which allowed them to live long enough to develop the medicine. But they could have maybe avoided contact long enough to develop the medicine.
One hard-to-believe thing is that Neville had plenty of meat and milk in his freezer for 3 years. (The milk could have been canned or powdered, but he seemed to have fresh meat.) One shouldn't think too much about those details, though.
Ed wrote: "One hard-to-believe thing is that Neville had plenty of meat and milk in his freezer for 3 years. (The milk could have been canned or powdered, but he seemed to have fresh meat.) One shouldn't think too much about those details, though. ..."How well things expired & fell apart is one of the great points of Earth Abides & several other of my favorites. Not only was I builder/remodeler for decades, but I saw quite a bit of it around me after the bubble broke in 2007. For instance, there's a house just a mile down the road that was abandoned about 15 years ago & it's a collapsing shell now. I wouldn't set foot in since I'm sure the floors would collapse.
I am not sure if authors leave out details because of room requirements, just asking you to suspend disbelief, or they missed the details too.
I think the standards of believability are definitely changing. As others have said- a lot of the explanations in books written even in the 60's would never fly today.
Ed wrote: "I assumed they had some partial immunity which allowed them to live long enough to develop the medicine."I thought not immunity per se, but were able to separate socio-cultural bias about vampires and the actual illness
Ed wrote: "One hard-to-believe thing is that Neville had plenty of meat and milk in his freezer for 3 years"
I guessed powdered milk and as for meat, I assumed he took deep-frozen from shops and kept in -20C in his freezer
Deborah wrote: "I think the standards of believability are definitely changing. As others have said- a lot of the explanations in books written even in the 60's would never fly today."I think you're on to something there. A lot of early stories relied heavily on coincidence that wouldn't cut it today. Look at ERB's Barsoom series. John Carter happens to show up at just the right time to help Dejah Thoris & Tars Tarkas, VIPs of Red & Green Martians, in a series of unlikely coincidences that save the day.
There are also the different crazes such as parapsychology & UFOs that haven't aged well. Doc Smith's Lensmen with their magical, universe spanning powers & aliens that want our resources &/or women. They're fun, but hardly believable.
Jim wrote: "Deborah wrote: "I think the standards of believability are definitely changing. As others have said- a lot of the explanations in books written even in the 60's would never fly today."I think you..."
You are so right about the Lensmen series. I loved it as a teen, but when I tried to re-read as an adult I just couldn't.
A lot of the Allen Dean Foster books too, I still love them but they would never be published if they had been written today.
The Evolution of Science Fiction
Books mentioned in this topic
Earth Abides (other topics)Make Room! Make Room! (other topics)
The House on the Borderland (other topics)
The House on the Borderland (other topics)
World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
William Hope Hodgson (other topics)Richard Corben (other topics)
Richard Matheson (other topics)
Richard Matheson (other topics)
Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley (other topics)
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You seem to have a much better memory for the actors & all than I do, but otherwise we're on the same page & have even watched severa..."
I think the "scream queen" concept was mostly a Hollywood fixture. I guess the image of a woman screaming in fright from a monster or alien was impressive on the big screen. I'm sure that the label "scream queen" was meant in a derogatory way towards the Hollywood directors who relied on it. Fortunately none of the film adaptations of "I Am Legend" felt they needed to include that motif. the use in SF and horror films may have been related to the predominance of a young male audience who were likely to respond to it. There should be a rating scheme that detracts points from a film's critical rating for the inclusion of this overused device!!! Fay Wray is considered to to have set the original standard for this ploy in her appearance in the original and still terrific "King Kong".