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A Christmas Carol - Staves 1 - 2 (hosted by Connie and Sara)
AllegoryWe can think of A Christmas Carol as an allegory. Dickens wraps up his morality tale into a marvelous story with ghosts, humor, interesting characters, family warmth, and the joys of Christmas. Many of the characters represent a virtue or vice, an idea, or a class of people.
We've met these characters in Stave One:
Scrooge-Greed, Loneliness, the Wealthy
Fred-The Joyful Spirit of Christmas
Bob Cratchit-The Poor Family Man
The Two Portly Gentlemen-Charity
Marley-Regret, Remorse
Thanks, Connie, for the great intro into the book. I have just joined the group and look forward to everyone’s comments. Haven’t read the book in many years, but usually attend an annual performance at the theatre. Not happening this year.I still have my original copy from 50 years ago.
Very good summary Connie. It's interesting that Scrooge (isn't Ebenezer the best first name, I think my next cat might an Ebbie) is angry at having to pay for a single paid day a year; it's hard to believe that it was like that and I would guess they were no paid vacation either! Here in Quebec, we have many férié (paid holidays) and since I work for a union I have some extras too, I think Ebenezer would look at our modern government as very wasteful when the reality is a happy worker makes a more efficient worker (not having to warm your hands with your breath like Cratchit is already a plus!).
Love the allegorical breakdown, Connie. Dickens does a marvelous job of giving us the personification of given traits and yet still giving us fleshed out, real people. Scrooge is a curmudgeon, but most of us have known someone just like him, people who take no joy from their own lives and resent when others take joy from theirs.
Thanks Connie!I love your points on the allegory and how each character relates. I know the story from so many movies but it's a long time since I read it. I look forward to starting it today.
Mod
Would it surprise anyone to know that Charles Dickens didn't entirely invent the name Ebenezer Scrooge? It comes from a Scottish tombstone.
Charles Dickens was walking in the cemetery of the Canongate Kirkyard in Edinburgh (Scotland) at dusk one evening, when he spotted the grave of one Ebenezer Scroggie. The light was poor and he thought the tombstone was carved with the words "mean man"!
Canongate Kirk
He was appalled that someone could go to their grave, and be remembered only for their meanness! But Charles Dickens had misread the tombstone. It actually read "meal man", meaning that poor old Scroggie was a grain merchant, and not a miserable old codger after all.
Had Charles Dickens walked in a better light, the world might never have known Ebenezer Scrooge! It did however give him the idea for the wonderful A Christmas Carol, which was written in record time, as Connie has told us :) And it meant that people stopped naming their child "Ebenezer" which had up to then, been quite a popular Victorian children's name!
Oh, Jean, that is the most wonderful story! I would consider naming a child Ebenezer because you could call him Eben, but I can see why the popularity would have declined over time with the connection everyone would be sure to make to this Ebenezer and this story.
Connie, I enjoyed your summary and allegory. Thanks. Jean, I had no idea! Thanks.
I have read stave one and remembered how how much I like this story.
Jean, that's a wonderful story about Ebenezer Scroggie and the birth of Ebenezer Scrooge and A Christmas Carol! Thank you so much for sharing it!
Connie, I apologize for my tardiness in thanking you for your wonderful introduction to A Christmas Carol. I'm a bit behind on my reading for this group. Will catch up soon.
Welcome to the group, Antoinette!I'm happy that people are starting this wonderful story today.
I think a boy would be upset in today's world if he was named Ebenezer because of the Scrooge connection. Eben or Ebbie are cute names though.
I like Dickens' name for Bob Cratchit. It's sounds like the word "scratch." I can hear the clerk's pen scratching over the pages for the entire day! (We are so lucky to have copiers and computers today.)
Sara, it's true that the characters seem like real people in "A Christmas Carol." I've read other allegories that seemed very flat and preachy, but Dickens writes a lively story that kept my interest throughout the tale.
Jean, thanks for the Scrooge story and the lovely photo of Canongate Kirk.
France-Andree, you make a good point that a worker like Bob Cratchit would be much more efficient if he was happy and warm. It's certainly harder to write with freezing fingers. Cratchit had to support a big family on a small salary. People don't work as well if they are hungry. (That's why there are so many free breakfast and lunch programs in schools today--kids can't learn if they are hungry.)
Thank you Connie for the helpful introduction and summary. I’m listening to the audio version narrated by Tim Curry. I started it today while on a short car trip. My partner was not happy when I stopped it after the first stave and told him he would have to wait until next week for the second stave!
lol. I love that Kathleen. My husband said what are you reading and I said "A Christmas Carol" and he said, "Again?".
Kathleen wrote: "Thank you Connie for the helpful introduction and summary. I’m listening to the audio version narrated by Tim Curry. I started it today while on a short car trip. My partner was not happy when I st..."It's a good thing we already know the story, Kathleen. I'm the type of reader that stays up to 2 am to see how a book ends.
Sara wrote: "lol. I love that Kathleen. My husband said what are you reading and I said "A Christmas Carol" and he said, "Again?"."LOL. Does he say that every Christmas?
I first learned this story as a child and have seen several adaptations, but I have never read the original version before. I'm enjoying the more fleshed out story. I'm also enjoying Dickens' humor.
Mod
Katy, I'm glad you're joining our read. I like Dickens' humor too. Even Scrooge comes out with some funny lines when he's talking to the ghosts since he's very resistant to change.
A couple of thoughts:“Mr. Marley has been dead these seven years,” Scrooge replied. “He died seven years ago, this very night.” - - Interesting to make a point of seven years and to this day. Is it because the number seven is magical? Or is there a religious reason? Or both?
"...the clerk, with the long ends of his white comforter dangling below his waist (for he boasted no great-coat),..." - - I pictured Cratchit with a blanket wrapped around himself. Which seemed a little odd. So, I googled comforter and found out it is a woolen scarf.
Thanks for the introduction, Connie. This is a great book to read or reread pre-Christmas. I am not really in a Christmassy mood right now but I’ll probably be once I finish the book as I will be a lot closer to visiting my parents. Haven’t seen them in ages. Thanks for the graveyard anecdote, Jean. I love to walk across graveyards whenever I can because of their calm atmosphere. I do understand that some people don’t like walking there but I love to live close to them.
I haven’t started this yet. But anyone in the UK who wanted to see the tv version Blackadder’s Christmas Carol can watch it - I just discovered it’s available on BBC iPlayer. Enjoy!
Interesting thoughts, Debra. I was also thinking of a blanket when I read "comforter," thinking that he needed one to keep warm at the counting house. Thanks for letting us know it was a warm scarf.I don't know why it is specifically seven years since Marley's death. We learn later in the story that Scrooge did not sit with Marley as he was dying, but just stayed at work on Christmas Eve. So Scrooge was cold to his best friend seven years ago. (Let's wait until next week to discuss this.)
Marley is being a better friend to Scrooge to come as a ghost to warn him to change his ways. Christmas is the perfect day to be warm and generous to others. People are open to receiving as well as giving on Christmas, so they will be welcoming to the reformed Scrooge. Marley's ghost is doing what is best for Scrooge.
Kathrin, it's hard to get in the Christmas spirit during a pandemic. I read "A Christmas Carol" a few weeks ago, and it really helped me get in a holiday mood.
Trisha, you've been wonderful telling everyone about TV versions of "A Christmas Carol." It makes me wish I could transport myself to England for a few days.
Ooh look the Old Vic doing a (paid) production mid December! Looks great, think I'll be watching! https://www.oldvictheatre.com/whats-o...
Jean, I love that story about Ebenezer Scrooge's name. Such a wonderful connection. I'm glad that Ebenezer Scroggie wasn't an old miser. (at least not enough to be immortalized on his tombstone as one)
I must admit when it comes to Film/TV versions, then I stick with either Alastair Sim or Patrick Stewart , both great fun and brilliantly acted in their own way. (Although Edmund Blackadder as a Scrooge type character is great fun).I started reading this the night before last, for the first time in many many years, and I'm really enjoying it as usual.
The Poor and Economist Thomas MalthusThomas Malthus (1766-1834) was an economist who thought that food production would not be able to keep up with the growth in the human population. He thought that population increases geometrically, while food production increases arithmetically. The population would be controlled by natural disasters, family planning, wars, and famine. (In reality, population has not increased as much as he predicted, there have been technological advances in food production, and countries can trade goods for food.) But the ideas of Malthus were used as an excuse for not helping the poor because the population was too high. Any person who could not support himself by working had no right to live.
Scrooge is using the ideas of Malthus when he talks to the two gentlemen collecting for charity. He says he will only support prisons and workhouses (where conditions are horrible.)
The men reply: "Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."
Anne, I'm glad you're reading along with us too.Melanie, the Old Vic production looks like fun.
Adrian, it's great to have a choice of good productions.
I’m not sure thar Marley is really doing what he does for Scrooges’ sake entirely. Marley’s been roaming through the world seeing the good he could have done and it being too late then he is given the opportunity to actually help so that’s his one chance and he does the best he can with it.
Connie, I had come across Malthus in my research as well, and thought how easy it is for people to justify their meanness sometimes. How clever of Dickens to use Scrooge to ridicule this reprehensible doctrine.France-Andrée - interesting take on Marley and one I can easily agree with.
Connie wrote: "The Poor and Economist Thomas MalthusThomas Malthus (1766-1834) was an economist who thought that food production would not be able to keep up with the growth in the human population. He thought ..."
This attitude hasn't totally left us. There were some comments early on about how the pandemic wasn't a big problem because it was mostly affecting people who were not productive to society (the old and the poor) - not true but disturbing.
France-Andrée wrote: "I’m not sure thar Marley is really doing what he does for Scrooges’ sake entirely. Marley’s been roaming through the world seeing the good he could have done and it being too late then he is given ..."The story did say that there were hundreds of tortured souls in chains outside Scrooges window that were frustrated that they could not help people themselves since they were deceased. I agree that Marley is one of those tortured souls and wants to do good. But he specifically chose Scrooge out of many people in the world to have a second chance to help people, and not have to go through the "purgatory" or whatever you want to call Marley's experience of dragging chains. So there seems to be an element of friendship there too.
Sara wrote: "Connie, I had come across Malthus in my research as well, and thought how easy it is for people to justify their meanness sometimes. How clever of Dickens to use Scrooge to ridicule this reprehensi..."Sometimes it is easy to manipulate numbers, but the "experts" are only guessing what will be happening in the future. When there is a larger workforce than the number of jobs, business owners can just work people to death for little pay in terrible conditions when there is no regulation by the government. People are so desperate for a job that they will do almost anything to feed their family.
I agree that Marley does it for friendship too, but knowing all the good a redeemed Scrooge could do and how he, Marley, can have a little of the credit for it must be a motivator for his “intervention”. (I just realized that this story really is a classic intervention before it was called that)Philosophers are often cold in their thinking like everything is a theory when real life involves people who suffer. It’s interesting to see the different influences that went into creating Scrooge.
Nice parallel to our reality, Robin, I’ve heard that too and I couldn’t believe my ears! To me, it shows that this story has still an echo in our modern life and that Scrooge is not that exaggerated.
Robin, that is so true about the pandemic. You must feel like you're right in the middle of all the arguments in Wisconsin!While Dickens was writing about the problem in England, the treatment of poor workers was also very ruthless in the United States in the 19th Century. That's why the corporate owners were called robber barons.
Robin P wrote: "Connie wrote: "The Poor and Economist Thomas MalthusThomas Malthus (1766-1834) was an economist who thought that food production would not be able to keep up with the growth in the human populati..."
Robin, I had not heard those comments, but it seems to be pretty typical. I have heard people who are better off express opinions suggesting that the poor are poor through their own fault and do not deserve to receive any assistance.
Connie wrote: "The Poor and Economist Thomas MalthusThomas Malthus (1766-1834) was an economist who thought that food production would not be able to keep up with the growth in the human population. He thought ..."
Thanks, Connie, for including this interesting and informative background information.
Debra wrote: "A couple of thoughts:“Mr. Marley has been dead these seven years,” Scrooge replied. “He died seven years ago, this very night.” - - Interesting to make a point of seven years and to this day. Is ..."
Thank you for explaining Debra. I also thought it was a blanket.
France-Andrée wrote: "I agree that Marley does it for friendship too, but knowing all the good a redeemed Scrooge could do and how he, Marley, can have a little of the credit for it must be a motivator for his “interven..."Although Marley could have chosen someone else, I think that Scrooge was the obvious choice. Marley regretted the way he had treated people - but it was a shared responsibility as he & Scrooge were business partners. I think it makes sense to try to change Scrooge, partly as they knew each other & perhaps more importantly to help some of the people that Marley had been involved in treating badly.
Melanie wrote: "Ooh look the Old Vic doing a (paid) production mid December! Looks great, think I'll be watching! https://www.oldvictheatre.com/whats-o..."Thanks, Melanie.
Connie wrote: "The Poor and Economist Thomas MalthusThomas Malthus (1766-1834) was an economist who thought that food production would not be able to keep up with the growth in the human population. He thought ..."
Thanks for the input. I am not sure if I encountered his theory before but it sounds like something I learned back when I was studying economics. I have some time on my hand today and will look it up.
For some reason, I never thought much about why Marley visited Scrooge. I like the idea of them having a shared responsibility because they worked together for ages treating people badly. I see the redeeming factor for Marley and he probably knows that Scrooge is heading down towards a more severe punishment because - even compared to other 'sinners' - he is doing a terrible job at being good.
Trisha and Kathrin, that's an interesting thought that some of the people that Marley had treated badly could be helped by a reformed Scrooge.
Kathrin, anything you can add to the discussion about how economics and Malthus influenced Scrooge would be welcome. I don't remember hearing about Malthus until I was researching "A Christmas Carol."
Fog and PhantomsStave One is very atmospheric. Dickens writes about the chime of the city clocks and the thick fog near the start of the story. This foreshadows the bells and the appearance of Marley's ghost later:
"The city clocks had only just gone three, but it was quite dark already--it had not been light all day--and candles were flaring in the windows of the neighbouring offices, like ruddy smears upon the palpable brown air. The fog came pouring in at every chink and keyhole, and was so dense without, that, although the court was of the narrowest, the houses opposite were mere phantoms. To see the dingy cloud come drooping down, obscuring everything, one might have thought that nature lived hard by, and was brewing on a large scale."
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After a dinner in a melancholy tavern, Scrooge returned home. For a moment he could see Marley's face in his doorknocker, but it disappeared. As he went up the stairs, Scrooge saw a locomotive hearse going on before him in the gloom. He rushes into his room, and double locked himself in. He dressed in his dressing-gown and nightcap, and sat before the low fire to eat his gruel.
All the bells in the house began to ring loudly. Scrooge could hear a clanking noise, followed by the noise of footsteps. It sounded like a person dragging a heavy chain up the stairs. A ghostly figure floated through the door. It was Marley with chains wound around him, linked by cash-boxes, keys, padlocks, ledgers, deeds, and heavy purses wrought in steel. Marley said his spirit had been condemned to wander around the earth in chains since he had a life of greed and had neglected people.
"I wear the chain I forged in life. I made it link by link, and yard by yard; I girded it on of my own free will, and of my own free will I wore it."
The phantom said that he has regrets. He is warning Scrooge to change his life, and avoid Marley's fate of the incessant torture of remorse. Marley's ghost says, "Mankind was my business. The common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence were, all, my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!"
Marley told Scrooge he will be haunted by Three Spirits who can help him avoid Marley's fate. "Expect the first tomorrow when the bell tolls One. . . . Expect the second on the next night at the same hour. The third, upon the next night when the last stroke of Twelve has ceased to vibrate."
As Marley goes to the window, Scrooge looks out and sees ghosts in chains filling the night. Scrooge fell into bed, and was asleep instantly.