"Dawnhounds" Discuss everything - *Spoilers*

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

So, you finished!

What did you think?

Some questions to get us going:

1. What did you think of the world?
2. What worked or didn't for you?
3. How do you feel about the use of magic and tech?
4. Do you think this deserved an award/was it Hugo-worthy for you?

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Come chat!

[Anna]

Allison wrote: "Do you think this deserved an award/was it Hugo-worthy for you?"

I read that as "hug-worthy" and was v confused for a moment.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Aw, definitely hug-worthy! Poor kids

[Sebastian]

I've just finished the book and I'm quite underwhelmed. I found the idea of the world and the magical system compelling but somehow I couldn't see it at all. A good fantasy book draws me in and I can immediately see the setting before my eyes. Here, hardly anything. I also felt a big disconnect between the first part in the city, the second part on the ship and the third part back in the city. It almost felt like they were different stories, especially the first part. So, definitely not award worthy, in my opinion, but alright for a first novel, especially a self-published one.

[Christopher]

I ended up deciding to DNF this one, just wasn't enjoying it.

[Silvana]

1. What did you think of the world?

Interesting, obviously. It reminded me China Mieville's Bas Lag and Kameron Hurley's novels. New Weird stuff, you know.

Yet I find the writing impenetrable. I don't mind the fever-like feeling of it, but after Yat died I found it hard to keep up with the plot, people (so many characters!), factions, places, etc.

2. What worked or didn't for you?

As I said before, the writing. I am still confused until the end.
Also, there's too much telling instead of showing for my taste.

3. How do you feel about the use of magic and tech?

I love the weird bio-botany stuff. It's the third fungi-filled novel I read this year :) Interesting that bio-magic tech was considered as the more modern tech compared to steel and iron, industrial tech stuff.

4. Do you think this deserved an award/was it Hugo-worthy for you?

I have not read the rest of the SJV award nominees though I have them (two are series sequels so I won't read them). Sometimes (or often times?) award books also ended up meh to me *shrugs*

[Ellen]

I finished it but it was a struggle. I was tempted to dnf but I kept thinking it would get better. Then I felt I had too much time invested so I persevered .
1. Liked the world.
Would like a plant base house that regenerates
2.What didn't work for you?
I agree with @Silvana about this. Didn't like the writing. I found it confusing. I'm still a bit confused.
What worked? The cat Fea. He was my favorite character then Sen
3. How do you feel about the use of magic and tech? I liked the bio-botany based tech.
The guns with grubs was interesting and as I mentioned the bio-regenerating houses
4. Do you think this deserved an award/was it Hugo-worthy for you?
No

[Emmett]

I agree with a lot of the above thoughts. Same with Sebastian, I found it difficult to imagine a lot of what was going on. As Ellen said, also felt confused while reading/after reading.

1. I liked the botany magic and the concept of "dumb tech", but the world felt underdeveloped as a whole.

2. Liked the beginning. The queer cop who is addicted to kiro and goes into shady bars... was into all of that. Also liked the introduction to the ship & crew. Really didn't quite grasp the thread magic stuff (very underdeveloped) and what in the seven hells was going on with the Crane-Monkey thing? I still don't know. Call me a bin chicken, I guess. 🙃

3. Plant things & dumb tech= cool. Thread stuff= not cool.

4. I am not really one to pay attention to awards... but I would venture to say there was probably a book that could have beat this one out to win?

[Silvana]

Yeah the thread stuff was confusing for me as well.

[Nicol]

1. What did you think of the world? How do you feel about the use of magic and tech?
From what I understood of the world, I liked it, I always enjoy the idea of self sustaining or symbiotic relationships with homes, so the mushroom houses or apartments were interesting. The magic I guess I didn't understand - like why one would one person become immortal but another just die? Was it all at the whims of the gods? Like others, I found the threads confusing, why could it sustain Yat but then like every couple of pages she was so drained to the point of dying again? Maybe because she was new to this, perhaps it will be expanded upon in future series books?

2. What worked or didn't for you?
I loved the idea of queer friends on a ship; of choosing family and a crew of "misfits"; etc - I liked that the author did tackle homophobia, heteronormativity and policing. I of course loved Fea - and chuckled because in Spanish it means ugly.

The huge thing that didn't work for me was the editing. I have a vestibular disorder, which means I am dizzy all the time and when I'm reading, be it print or an ebook - words for the lines above or below get jumbled with the line I'm reading; I read the ebook version and most pages were page length paragraphs, it was killer on me . So much so it took me a long time to read this short book, because I had to keep taking breaks. And if it wasn't page long paragraphs, it was weird punctuation or sudden breaks to a new line for no reason. Also it felt like along the way, writing, beta reading and publishing no one read it from beginning to end, because many times it made no sense. At first, I chucked this up to me perhaps being confused with all the jumbling, but I see I am not the only one it perplexed.

Speaking of being confused, I don’t get how Yat wouldn’t recognize the supposed love of her life? The whole last part of the book came out of nowhere with Kiada returning or being there the whole time or whatever. Did anyone else understand that?

[Emmett]

Nicol wrote: "like why one would one person become immortal but another just die? Was it all at the whims of the gods?"

I also really didn't understand why Yat was brought back to life/immortal. I felt like maybe I missed something. The whole gods/Crane/Monkey felt like a rough sketch to me as well. I had trouble following all of that.

I felt the same way about the reveal that (forgot the name) ended up being Kiada. And then they had this amazing kiss or whatever and everything was saved. I rolled my eyes at that part haha. Oh right, you have been next to me the whole time but I didn't realize that you were the love of my life...

[Emmett]

Despite the novel's larger issues, I loved the botany/plant-based magic and houses made from mushrooms and whatnot.

Has anyone read any books with similar themes or elements? Would definitely be into reading something else with similar concepts tied in

[Silvana]

Emmett wrote: "Despite the novel's larger issues, I loved the botany/plant-based magic and houses made from mushrooms and whatnot.

Has anyone read any books with similar themes or elements? Would definitely be ..."

The tirajista in Kameron Hurley's The Mirror Empire has awesome plant magic. Other mages also use infused weapons from saplings.

[Emmett]

Silvana wrote: "Emmett wrote: "Despite the novel's larger issues, I loved the botany/plant-based magic and houses made from mushrooms and whatnot.

Has anyone read any books with similar themes or elements? Would..."

Will have to check it out; thanks!

[Nicol]

"Emmett wrote: "Despite the novel's larger issues, I loved the botany/plant-based magic and houses made from mushrooms and whatnot.

Has anyone read any books with similar themes or elements? Would..."

Off the top of my head, I enjoyed the following that had similar elements:
Planetfall Carnival and Dawn have botany kind dwellings or ships

Leviathan is an alternative historical fiction that is YA but has the combining of plants & animals with steam punk technology

Semiosis has interaction with botany - maybe not describing well but don't want to spoil anything

[Emmett]

Thank you Nicol! I've read Dawn (one of my favorite books); the whole Xenogenesis series was amazing.

Semiosis looks very cool, definitely adding that one to my to-read list 😍

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Emmett if you'd like more, feel free to start a thread in the Recommendations folder so more people than those who've finished Dawnhounds can contribute ^^

[Emmett]

Allison wrote: "Emmett if you'd like more, feel free to start a thread in the Recommendations folder so more people than those who've finished Dawnhounds can contribute ^^"

Thanks- I think I am good for now with the above recommendations from Silvana & Nicol. Enough on the to-read list as it is. Will certainly start a thread in that folder in the future should I need recommendations, didn't mean to hijack the thread 😅

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

No worries!

Does anyone have ideas about what the title means?

[Andrew]

My best guess in regards to the title is that the ship/group of pirate's name Kopek means hounds/pack? Though I can't say I remember any reference to them or their ship called Dawnhounds/The Dawnhound in the book.

[Anna]

I think the ship was called the Fantail? I could be wrong, but I got the rec for Flight of the Fantail at the same time I first learned about Dawnhounds, so that caught my eye. I think it was the ship, but I guess it could've been something else.

[Emmett]

Andrew wrote: "My best guess in regards to the title is that the ship/group of pirate's name Kopek means hounds/pack? Though I can't say I remember any reference to them or their ship called Dawnhounds/The Dawnho..."

I also thought maybe it would be the name of a ship/crew. I was thinking since it is a series, maybe Yat will get her own ship and a crew in future installments and name them the Dawnhounds. Other than that, got nothin!

[Beth]

I had to check to make sure, but it looks like the Fantail is the ship at the beginning of the book, vs. the one that Sibbi is the captain of.

1. What did you think of the world?

What we see of it is interesting! The city, the sea, the place where Sibbi's ex-husband rules.

2. What worked or didn't for you?

What worked: I liked the cast of characters. Yat, Sen, Sibbi and Ajat, Fea, Wajet. Even some of the ones who were just sketched in to give a better impression of a crew, like Iacci, the violinist who has a preoccupation with mice.

What didn't work: The last third or so of this book was a huge bummer. I could see what was happening, but not why anything was happening. There was a lot of "connective tissue" missing that would make that part of the story resonant and exciting.

3. How do you feel about the use of magic and tech?

The plant magic was quite cool. I like the idea of a house that cleans up the little bits of detritus from humans and uses it to sustain itself. The drawbridge at the end was an interesting idea, too. I wouldn't mind living in a city made of plants, that largely replaces one made of steel and brick.

The tech, not so much. A lot of it was unclear. Like, those last two pages. We're SF all of a sudden?

4. Do you think this deserved an award/was it Hugo-worthy for you?

In a pool that only contained self-pub books, I might consider it. Otherwise, no. This does not feel like a polished book. I read it in paper, but it felt like it ought to be in e-book. Especially since the formatting was pretty bad in paper. Missing page numbers, no justification on the right-hand side.

Silvana wrote: " I don't mind the fever-like feeling of it,

Maybe it's just because I took a break in the middle of a fever-like book to read this one ((view spoiler)[ Harrow the Ninth (hide spoiler)], for the record), but this one was prosaic for the most part, for me. There were some bits and pieces that kind of were like that.

Emmett wrote: "The whole gods/Crane/Monkey felt like a rough sketch to me as well. I had trouble following all of that."

Agreed, Emmett, this was more of a sketch to me, too.

[Hank, Hankenstein's Modster]

I will jump in and agree with the following.

The plant aspect was interesting and I wanted more of that.

It needed some polish.

I finished and still have no idea what actually happened. OK, I know what happened but not how and why.

[Ryan, Your favourite moderators favourite moderator]

This was definitely worthy of a Hugo... I'll never read it again. Almost regret reading it at all. Going to need a personal recommendation from someone I trust to read a sequel.

I really didn't like the inclusion of homophobia. Not overly fond of love stories anyway, but reading such bigotry even if it's done to set up an argument against its stupidity isn't how I like to spend my (free) time.

I agree with the general consensus about the books failings and potential (calling them successes seems an over exaggeration).

[Beth]

I wasn't a big fan of that aspect either, Ryan. Setting up a homophobia strawman to knock down was not necessary to this story. I also didn't see how it fit in with the rest of the world-building whether on a cultural or religious basis--another missing "how." Maybe the Crane religion (?) had it as part of its tenets, but if so that was never made clear..

[Kristin B.]

Agree with most of the above. The world and ideas had some potential, but it never came together.

[Simeon]

Sorry, this was not for me and DNF. In fact, unusually, two chapters was enough. The jump from the start left me confused but would not normally be a reason to stop reading, but nothing about this engaged me. Again, unusually, the naming conventions of the characters annoyed me for some reason. Not my sort of writing I am afraid.

[Alex]

I just finished this, and man, it saddens me to see this book never live up to its potential. I just wrote a review, but overall the awkward writing reminds me of translated Japanese light novels.
On top of that the book never clearly explained the why, and it rushed the what. I don't think I'll be eagerly awaiting the second novel in this series.

BTW Beth, I believe the book mentioned that in de Crane religion man and woman exist to further the circle of life. If you can't reproduce, you are no longer human, that's where the homophobia stems from.

[Gabi]

OMG, what a mess! From the recommendations I've heard I was expecting a completely different quality of the writing.

For me it started quite well, once the tropey outsider cop with addiction stuff was out of the way. The idea for this city with flora grounding instead of stone and steel was really cool and refreshingly different. So I thought about a nice 4 stars. But the more I read the more it became obvious that the execution skills didn't quite match the storyboard. It read in large parts like a first draft of something that could have become a very good novel. A lot of half-cooked ideas were presented that probably should be mysterious in their vague mentions, but left more the impression that the author himself was a bit lacking of an overview. So at half time I was down to okayish 3 stars.
The whole part on the ship wasn't exactly convincing for me. Was it to show a lot of cool queer characters? It felt like the Dapper Capybara stories but way less cute.
I was hoping for some revelation come the end to tie everything together and make it worth while. But that didn't came and the end (and the 'love story') was so lame, that I was positively angry about so much wasted potential.

[Beth]

That was almost exactly my "arc" with it, too, Gabi. I've definitely read books that came together in their last fourth, and this wasn't one of them.

Thanks for the tip, Alexander. I vaguely remember that now.

[Oleksandr]

Ok, the month is over, so is the monthly read, but I only today got to the thread.

I agree with majority of previous posts - I too liked the mushroom / biology part, the idea is very cool. The love part was done very poorly, it for me was more to get in line of supporting LGBT+ that is quite prominent in English fantasy than the actual necessity of the story.

[Emmett]

Resurrecting this thread with relevant plant-home news:

Mushroom Bricks and Wood Windows
(pretty fascinating embedded video within article detailing the process)

Bricks made of mushrooms! That is all- please return to your regularly-scheduled programming.