Recommend Books Here

[Mary]

Recommending second book in the Starfarers series Transition by Vonda N. McIntyre o SV or other TWs. I'm sad more people haven't read this series, a group of diverse scientists in space, egalitarian and deciding by consensus.

[Beige]

Eva wrote: "Some shorter fiction I've read recently meets our criteria, I believe:

Thanks, Eva! I was wondering how the last decade or so of SFF/H stories compared to the content of SFF/H novels. I imagine that stories are safer territory, but I wouldn't want to assume...a good question for those partaking in our Wbtm 2021 short story challenge

I do wish Goodreads librarians would allow individual stories to be permanent on Goodreads. It's likely the Tor.com stories will stay, but if they find De Bodard's story from the magazine Beneath Ceaseless Skies , they will delete it, as per their policy. 😒

I realize we haven't decided what to do about validating stories. For those likely not to be deleted by librarians, there aren't often sufficient GR reviews for moderators to validate. I think I'll add this question to January's monthly chat. Stay tuned for more details 😁

And good to know about Holy Sister! We are only adding up to two books per distinct series (for now). But if anyone reports issues in the latter editions, we will certainly discuss removal.

[Kristenelle]

I think the following are safe:

The Trials of Koli - transphobia that is dealt with very nicely
The Space Between Worlds - domestic violence
Brown Girl in the Ring - violence
A Deadly Education - violence, mention of animal abuse
The Bone Shard Daughter - medical experiments, violence, dysfunctional family
Firewalkers - violence, dysfunctional family, ablism (shown as wrong)

[Kristenelle]

Elena C. wrote: "Eva wrote: "Elena C. wrote: "Eva wrote: "Imperial Radch: contains some sexual violence (e.g. an abusive relationship in book 2) and several mentions of rape (not described in detail, but as a regul..."

I remember Provenance being safe, but I read it three years ago and could be wrong.

[Beige]

Ines wrote: "I'm 95% sure The Only Good Indians by Stephen Graham Jones can be on the bookshelf. I read it last year and did look through the reviews and I neither remember nor fo..."

Thanks, Ines! Our Horror shelf needs a little beefing up. 😉

I have completed the validation and found no mentions of SV, both have been added to our shelf. I appreciate your content warnings, and only found mention of a couple more.

Note to our members: pay particular attention to our bookshelf content warning tags for Horror, while they may not have SV, some contain other disturbing and graphic depictions.

[Beige]

Mary wrote: "Recommending second book in the Starfarers series Transition by Vonda N. McIntyre o SV or other TWs. I'm sad more people haven't read this series, a group of diverse ..."

I've added this one too 😉

Were you able to purchase this as an ebook? In my country it's only available as part of audible. No books for sale, just out of print mass market paperbacks.

[Beige]

Kristenelle wrote: "I think the following are safe: ..."

Thanks for the batch, Kristenelle! I'll check these out over the new few days.

Provenance made it to our shelves already 😉

[Mary]

Beige wrote: "Mary wrote: "Recommending second book in the Starfarers series Transition by Vonda N. McIntyre o SV or other TWs. I'm sad more people haven't read this series, a grou..."

I got them used. I'm missing book 4 🤞 hope it surfaces somewhere

[Elena]

Finally (FINALLYYYY!!!) I have a book to recommend for our shelf too! 🤗

Piranesi by Susanna Clarke

[Elena]

I don't think The Space Between Worlds qualifies to be added to our shelf, though: we decided to avoid books containing domestic abuse, right? And the book contains domestic abuse aplenty, described in fairly graphic details.

To elaborate, while (view spoiler)[rape and sexual abuse is never mentioned, the MC comes from a long history of violence at the hands of her previous partner: he used to beat her to the point of breaking her bones, cut her so she'd bleed, and strangle her almost to death - she clearly states how she felt sure sooner or later he'd get to the point of killing her. (hide spoiler)]

[Eva]

I've just read the The Original by Brandon Sanderson and Mary Robinette Kowal, and I think it qualifies for our shelf! I listened to it on audio, the paperback isn't out yet. :-)

[♥Xeni♥]

I just finished reading Drowned Country and I saw while the first in the series is added to the shelves, this one is not yet. It totally should be!

[Mary]

I can recommend Heavy Time by C.J. Cherryh there's no SV. There is some violence, nothing graphic.

[Kristenelle]

Elena C. wrote: "Finally (FINALLYYYY!!!) I have a book to recommend for our shelf too! 🤗

Piranesi by Susanna Clarke"

There is off screen heavy suspicion of sexual assault. (view spoiler)[ There was that guy in the secret room. It was assumed he was sex slave or something. (hide spoiler)]

[Kristenelle]

Elena C. wrote: "I don't think The Space Between Worlds qualifies to be added to our shelf, though: we decided to avoid books containing domestic abuse, right? And the book contains domestic abuse a..."

I'm losing track of all the rules. Yeah, definitely it has really intense domestic abuse.

[Elena]

Kristenelle wrote: "Elena C. wrote: "Finally (FINALLYYYY!!!) I have a book to recommend for our shelf too! 🤗

Piranesi by Susanna Clarke"

There is off screen heavy suspicion of sexual assault. [spoile..."

*Warning folks, spoilers about Piranesi incoming!*

But that's simply mentioned, and never in explicit terms (the words (view spoiler)["sexual assault" and "sexual slaves" aren't present in the text) as a hypothesis the police has in regard of that character's disappearance. It's clear to the reader that his disappearance has in fact nothing to do with sexual violence of any kind, and the text itself seems to condemn the police's thesis as homophobic (they couldn't explain why the professor would keep a young men imprisoned - the professor himself doesn't say, and his victim's testimony is dismissed as nonsensical - and so they speculate that the fact that he was openly gay must have had something to do with it). (hide spoiler)]

Again, the terms used here ☝ are mine: Clarke's text never once addresses the matter in such an explicit way, and this whole sub-plot is a very minor one (at least, in the terms we've discussed here, because by then the reader knows what's going on and the author doesn't examine these allegations for more than a couple of lines).

If there are other members who'd read Piranesi that would like to weight in on the debate, please do so 😁 I personally don't feel this in enough to exclude the book from the shelf, but I won't further advocate for adding it to it either, if some of you aren't okay with it 😉

[Elena]

Kristenelle wrote: "Elena C. wrote: "I don't think The Space Between Worlds qualifies to be added to our shelf, though: we decided to avoid books containing domestic abuse, right? And the book contains..."

I'm always keeping the first post of this thread close at hand myself 😁

[Nefeli]

*Comes out of the shadows to add to the conversation because I read Piranesi as well* Although I have to say that I just read the book and can't remember many things about it 😑

Spoilers for what I do remember:
(view spoiler)[I do remember specifically the word "grooming" being involved because there was this theory by the police that the man in the closet was being sexually abused but we as readers know that the guy was in The House. (hide spoiler)]

It boils down to whether a book should be excluded when suspicion of SV is mentioned but the theory is wrong.

I'm with Elena, I wouldn't exclude it if it was up to me, but if some of you are uncomfortable with it I'll absolutely step back.

[Elena]

Nefeli wrote: "I just read the book and can't remember many things about it 😑"

😂😂 what is wrong with us

If we do end up adding it, it definitely should come with a couple of CW for abusive and manipulative behavior.

[Caroline]

I recommend Boneset and Feathers, by the wonderful Kiste.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...

It definitely has other forms of trauma, oppressed women, violence towards women, and a culture of men in power. However, I don't recall any sexual trauma. The overall message is one of women with power using that power together.

[Kristenelle]

Elena C. wrote: "Kristenelle wrote: "Elena C. wrote: "Finally (FINALLYYYY!!!) I have a book to recommend for our shelf too! 🤗

Piranesi by Susanna Clarke"

There is off screen heavy suspicion of sex..."

You know, when I read it I think I missed that that was (view spoiler)[just a homophobic police theory. I had read it as the victim was both sexually abused AND sent to the house. But I totally believe that I could have read/remembered that wrong. (hide spoiler)]

In any case, I didn't find it triggering personally. So I'm neutral on whether it gets added to the shelf.

[Amanda at Bookish Brews]

I also read Piranesi and I feel that it could be added, it was just a mention of a theory, and I felt the author set us up to believe that the theory was wrong before we even read the theory. Though she didn't specifically say it was wrong, I don't think, so that might be the mild confusion? Also because it was such a small point. Haha

[Silvana]

I am recommending When the Tiger Came Down the Mountain by Nghi Vo to be in the shelf. In fact, the first book should be there too but would be good to confirm first.

[Elena]

Silvana wrote: "I am recommending When the Tiger Came Down the Mountain by Nghi Vo to be in the shelf. In fact, the first book should be there too but would be good to confirm first."

Thank you, Silvana! Noted.

I have The Empress of Salt and Fortune on my tbr and since I'm on a novella / shorter books binge lately, I'd be happy to read it myself in a few days so that we're sure we can add it to the shelf 😉

[Kaa]

I think we said no to Empress because (view spoiler)[forced sterilization (hide spoiler)] is a pretty important plot point.

[Elena]

Kaa wrote: "I think we said no to Empress because [spoilers removed] is a pretty important plot point."

Oof. Thank you for catching my mistake, Kaa: you're absolutely right, we included Vo's Empress in our latest "excluded books recap" (#4 in this thread https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...)

[Elena]

Psst, Jo: whenever you have the time - I think we should add the CW Kaa mentioned (view spoiler)[,forced sterilization, to the CW list for Empress of Salt and Fortune (hide spoiler)] Thank you!

[Silvana]

I did not recall that at all, good to know. I hope the others can also confirm whether the sequel is eligible.

[Elena]

Silvana wrote: "I did not recall that at all, good to know. I hope the others can also confirm whether the sequel is eligible."

Do the two installment work as standalones, Silvana? We decided not to include single installments of a series if one of them contains SV so the exclusion of Empress would automatically mean that When the Tiger can't be added either. Unless the two books can be read and fully enjoyed on their own, like with Provenance (DB) and its main series (Not DB).

[Silvana]

Yep, can work as a standalone.

[Elena]

Silvana wrote: "Yep, can work as a standalone."

Good to know, thanks! Research didn't turn up any SV for When a Tiger: I'll stick to my plan of reading the novellas soon so if no one else does so in the meantime, I'll be able to second your rec myself 😉

[Kaa]

I just recently read When the Tiger as well, and I don't recall any SV.

I would also recommend Remote Control for the shelf.

[Beige]

Hey all, thanks for your January submissions! We've gone though and validated what was submitted here and in our monthly chat thread...
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Beige]

@ Kristinelle - Thanks again for your suggestions! Here are the results of our research...

3 added to group shelves, one excluded, and one added to our pending list. Details are below

The Trials of Koli - ADDED
SV - None I could find
CW - Transphobia, acknowledged
REP: LGBT
Other Tags : Sequel, Friendship, Found family
AWARD? TBD


Brown Girl in the Ring - EXCLUDED
SV - exclude for "descriptions of domestic violence"


A Deadly Education - PENDING
SV - Pending, 2 out of 5000+ reviews felt a scene was triggering, felt it veered on (view spoiler)[ sexual assualt (hide spoiler)]
CW - Racism, acknowledged


The Bone Shard Daughter - ADDED
SV - None I could find
CW - (view spoiler)[Graphic Violence, child death, child abuse, animal cruelty (hide spoiler)]
REP: Author, MC BIPOC, MC LGBT
Other Tags : friendship (human + animal 👍)
AWARD? TBD


Firewalkers - ADDED
SV - None I could find
CW - None I could find
REP: None I could find
Other Tags : Novella, friendship
AWARD? TBD

[Beige]

Please let us know if you have any questions or comments about the research


@ Eva - The Original - ADDED
SV - None we could find
CW - violence was listed but wasn't felt to be graphic
REP: One review mentioned BIPOC and non-binary, but not enough reviews commented on the quality of the rep for us to give this book those tags
Other Tags : none
AWARD? No


@ Xeni - Drowned Country - ADDED
SV - None we could find
CW - None we could find
REP: MC is LGBT
Other Tags : Romance, Sequel, Novella
AWARD? TBD


@ Caroline - Boneset & Feathers - PENDING
This is being added to our pending list. We require 75+ GR reviews for a book to be validated by a moderator, this will wait as pending until it has 75 reviews or another active group member opts to read it and report back.

[Rosie]

Wolfsong
I just finished TJ Klune’s Green Creek series. Gay werewolves!
Pretty sure there is zero sexual violence.

There’s an age gap between two main characters who meet when one is a boy and one is a teen, but no sex till age of consent.

[Beige]

Rosie wrote: "Wolfsong
I just finished TJ Klune’s Green Creek series..."

Welcome Rosie! And thank you so much for your suggestion 😁 I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it.

I'm adding this to our batch of books to validate for March. We'll search its 4000+ GR reviews to confirm content.

[James]

Hello. I appreciate what this group is trying to do.

I'd like to submit a few of my own books for consideration, but I can not say with certainty that they'll be included or excluded.

Colony is a survival story about robots. It has very little violence at all in it. The target audience was my two young children. Books2Read link - books2read.com/u/bMRrja

Singularity is styled on Victor Hugo's 'Les Miserables' and is set two generations after Colony. It tries to explore the human condition and how much, if at all, even extremes of technological wealth can improve it. There is also very little violence in this. This book does explore indifference and intolerance from several different angles. I think I leave the reader to draw their own conclusions, but not without, I think, spending some time as a target of intolerance. Books2Read link - books2read.com/u/3n7Owx

Cradle of the Sun is a new story in the same universe as Colony and Singularity. It is an adventure tale. It has a war in it; but that is concluded swiftly. None of this violence is sexual. Book2Read link - books2read.com/u/3JR01v

First Contact is a first-contact tale modeled in parts on the laying of the trans-oceanic telegraph cable, the establishment of the first antarctic research stations, and the Cuban Missile Crisis for the finale. There is only a little violence at all in it. It also re-touches on some themes of indifference vs. following your dreams, and I think condemns them. Books2Read link - books2read.com/u/3GvYy8

Phylogeny is a cyberpunk tale and an exploration of many kinds of small-scale conflict. There is only a small amount of violence in it. The themes are integration and exploring the things that work for and against cultures being able to live with one another. Books2Read link - books2read.com/u/mYZgew

I hope these might add to your collection. Best regards.

[♥Xeni♥]

I want to nominate The Steerswoman. I just finished reading this one and it was remarkably clean, especially considering the medieval-fantasy setting.

[Mel]

I was really hoping to nominate that one too, Xeni. Alas, it doesn't make the cut. :/

A really good book though! I need to get back to that series!

[♥Xeni♥]

Melissa wrote: "I was really hoping to nominate that one too, Xeni. Alas, it doesn't make the cut. :/

A really good book though! I need to get back to that series!"

Oh odd. I must have missed something then. Any particulars you can share?

[Beige]

@ Xeni/Melissa,

Thank you both for sharing 😁

With the question of SV, I jumped this one to the front of our queue. I just did the validation step on the GR member reviews and found 1 of 293 mentioned a (view spoiler)[ brief threat of rape (hide spoiler)]. However, I also found 1 of 293 that specifically said there was none. Interestingly, both were 5 star reviews, I don't see that often.

When we have this situation, we put the book onto our Pending list so another active DB member can read it, with an eye on SV content and report back to us with their opinion.

Here are the contradicting GR review comments I found....

(view spoiler)[
"And for once, we have a novel in which the female protagonist is not threatened with sexual violence. Imagine a book with a female heroine where there is no leering. Imagine a book in which the women aren't afraid of what men could do to them" -

"there's an Evil Incestuous Bisexual who briefly threatens the heroine with rape" -

(hide spoiler)]

Whether or not this book gets added to our shelf, I feel compelled to mention that many GR reviewer's go out of their way to state this book is free from the usual sexism and misogyny prevalent in Fantasy, especially back in 1989, when this was originally published.

[♥Xeni♥]

Beige wrote: "
With the question of SV, I jumped this one to the front of our queue. I just did the validation step on the GR member reviews and found 1 of 293 menti..."

Oh! I remember that scene. Okay, so this is what happens: (view spoiler)[The protagonist is taken hostage by 2 wizard siblings. They have a sort of local woman as a concubine, there by free will. She disappears (turns out our other protagonist killed her off screen), and the siblings decide our protagonist is responsible. She doesn't deny anything. The previous night, she tried to use her feminine wiles to seduce a soldier into the room where they keep her (a glorified cell). None of them fall for her trick, and the next morning when they discover their concubine missing, they are rightfully angry. So the woman wizard says something like, "maybe we should take you to our rooms instead, since it seems you want that". (hide spoiler)] I don't think this should count as (view spoiler)[threatened rape since the protagonist attempted to seduce the soldiers; in the book it sounded more like a continuation / flipping the tables than rape. And the scene ends with her saying 'no' and they respecting that choice. (hide spoiler)] They are still pretty sucky wizards and get what is coming to them soon after this scene, so who knows what would have happened had she stayed captive longer.

Other than that, though, the only prejudice is that of class (richer people looking down their noses at those 'beneath them'). Even poorer women are not subjected to misogyny, soldiers are described as being of all genders, etc. Even the 'Steerswomen' have a few men in their ranks, and they discuss why this is at one point.

[Beige]

James wrote: "Hello. I appreciate what this group is trying to do.
I'd like to submit a few of my own books for consideration, but I can not say with certainty that they'll be included or excluded.:..."

Hey James, congrats in publishing so many novels!

One of the things the group mods do is validate all suggested books before they go on our bookshelf database. We search GR reviews for comments on SV and rep. We've agreed to a minimum of 75 GR member reviews for us to be able to effectively validate.

Thank for your submissions, we'll keep your post on this page for anyone who wants to check out your books.

All the best!

[Beige]

♥Xeni♥ wrote: "..."Oh! I remember that scene...."

Thanks for clarifying, and since your recommendation stands, I'll go ahead and add it to our pending list 😁

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Ines]

I just finished The Salvage Crew and want to recommend it for the bookshelf.
It does deal with body autonomy as a secondary topic, but in a (probably spoiler for the story) (view spoiler)[human-machine-way (hide spoiler)] and not in any sexual way.

And I think The Man in the High Castle is also elligible, although I am not completely sure.

[Mel]

Yes, I agree with the reviews that praise The Steerswoman for its gender representation. It has a lot of positive things going for it, and was eager to recommend it myself. Which was why I was disappointed when I came to this scene, threatening the protagonist:

(view spoiler)[After the protagonist Rowan tries to escape by unsuccessfully flirting with her guard, the sibling-captors strike her to the ground and then allude to having her sexually assaulted/raped.

"I think you'll find that your new guards are, shall we say, above temptation? Still..." Her expression turned speculative, interested. "Perhaps you've been a little lonely? Perhaps tonight you could use some... company?" She studied Rowan's reaction, eyes glittering cold amusement. "What do you think, brother?"
"No." He half turned, his eyes blank. "She might enjoy it."

(hide spoiler)]

There is also the issue of the concubine, which is more oblique.
(view spoiler)[ She is described as young, no older than 14, and "A pattern of little bruises showed along one arm." The sibling wizard captors are 16/17. (hide spoiler)]

[Beige]

Melissa wrote: "Yes, I agree with the reviews that praise The Steerswoman for its gender representation. It has a lot of positive things going for it, and was eager to recommend it myself. Which was ..."

Melissa, thanks for finding the quote and sharing it with the group.

[Beige]

So we have a difference of opinion on The Steerswoman. Here is some context for any who are unfamiliar with how we handle this at DB.

When we started DB, our intention was to help others avoid what were unquestionable instances of "on-screen" SV. We quickly learned that our members felt this wasn't sufficient. In our town hall discussions we decided we'd broaden the scope to exclude brief mentions of SV.......Then, we quickly learned that brief mentions are sometimes open to interpretation. That's why we came up with the Pending Process which acts as an arbitrator.

Interpretation of text is just that, so in my mind both Xeni and Melissa's views on The Steerswoman are valid. We'll let the pending process (eventually) decide whether this book goes on/stays off the DB bookshelf.

[♥Xeni♥]

Thanks for finding the actual quote, Melissa. Based on my previous comments and on the surrounding story context, I'm still willing to say this book ought to be included on our shelves. However, I'm completely willing to accept that it might not be. So I leave it to others to read and decide.

---

In the mean time, I'd like to tentatively also suggest The Ruthless Lady's Guide to Wizardry. I read this book over the last month for a book club, and I did keep an eye out for any SV. However, I took my time reading it and my memory is not the best, so I may have glossed over or misremembered things. The main trigger warnings I'd give for this book are physical violence and substance abuse (with off-page childhood neglect as a tie in).