Do Better: SFF without Sexual Violence discussion
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Joanne
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Sep 28, 2020 08:33AM
Hi, I just started here because I am interested in finding kinder books. I feel that I am okay if the books I read contain some violence but it seems that today, books have too much. I'm curious to see what kinds of books are covered here. I see that you have excluded Goblin Emperor for reasons I understand. However, for me, the book was okay and better than most for keeping away from violent images. I'm going to look at your book list and see if anything you have interests me.
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Mod
Welcome, Joanne! Thanks for joining us!
Kindness is something I've also wanted a bit more of in my SFF reading. I've started to compile a list on my tbr, but haven't found all that much yet. I'd love to compare notes. Here is my shortlist...
https://www.goodreads.com/review/list...
Thank you for this group. I will probably mostly lurk; I just cannot gather up energy for more than is already on my plate. But I do have a quick question, though I may have missed it as I scanned threads already.... Are we making it clear that sexual violence against men is also reason to exclude a book?
Mod
Hi Cheryl, I hope you find your lurking is fruitful 😁
And yes, since this group focuses on SFF we are excluding sexual violence against all species, as well as genders.
No more women in refrigerators! Love this idea, and some great reads from what I can see so far...
Mod
Beige wrote: "Joanne wrote: "Hi, I just started here because I am interested in finding kinder books. I feel that I am okay if the books I read contain some violence but it seems that today, books have too much...."Ecotopia should not be on that list it's got all kinds of problems. It wouldn't meet the criteria for this group either. Great cover though :(
Mod
Ahh, good to know! Thanks! I had heard it was a proto solarpunk book, but I guess that's not always the same as "hopepunk".
Hi everyone! I found this group through the sister group Women of the Future. I’m so glad it exists! I remember a few years back reading The Demon Cycle by Peter Brett and being absolutely horrified by the sexual violence that was disturbing and unnecessary. I struggled to finish it (and I’m a stickler for finishing things). I’ve read been a fairly avid fantasy reader over the years and I’m thinking Is it just me or is it increasing? On a happier note I recently finished Murderbot Diaries by Martha Wells and this seemed sexual violence free!
Kristen wrote: "Hi everyone! I found this group through the sister group Women of the Future. I’m so glad it exists! I remember a few years back reading The Demon Cycle by Peter Brett and being absolutely horrifie..."Hi Kristen! Demon Cycle is the example I always give for my changing tolerance over the years... I read the first two books 7-ish years ago, and unfortunately thought nothing of the SV content at the time. As I’ve grown as a reader (and as a person), I’ve been unable to go back and continue the series, in part because of this.
And I agree with Murderbot - such a fun series :)
Hi! My name's Kam, pronouns she/her, please.I came from one of the sister groups as well, although I'm not extremely active this year due to personal circumstances. I mostly read YA and MG SFF, which I believe are excluded from the content of this group, but I'm looking forward to reading much more SFF targeted towards adults thanks to groups like this one!
My latest favourite without any SV is definitely In the Vanishers’ Palace, by Aliette de Bodard. It talks beautifully of the importance of consent without ever getting into a situation in which it could be an issue and I love it!
Thanks so much for the group.
Mod
That's what I'm enjoying about this group. I would never think to read a fairytale retelling, but one that explores consent? Yes, that is something I'd consider.
Question: One review mentioned some of the characters had a past history of abuse. Do you recall if the past abuse was sexual? If its not, I'll definitely add it to our bookshelf.
This review echoed your enthusiasm....
"Uses Beauty and the Beast as a framework to explore, challenge and subvert many of the issues woven into the original such as power relations, agency, consent, poverty and illness, colonialism, gender and monster romances"
¡Thanks for the welcome, Beige!I only read the book because I knew the author from her Xuya series, but I can agree that it does subvert what one has come to expect from fairytale retellings.
As far as I can recall, the abuse is only related to colonialism & poverty and never explicit, definitely not sexual.
¡And that's such a good pitch for the book! I'm happy someone else was better at selling it than I am, hahaha.
Mod
Your sell was more than reason enough for me to add In the Vanishers’ Palace to my tbr, so thanks for it! 😁
Mod
Thanks, Kam! I've added the book to our group bookshelf 😉
Whoops! 😬 forgot to introduce myself 😓 I’m Ayo pronouns xe/xem/xyr (or they/them if you’re boring 😉) and I’ve already given some recommendations in the book recs chat.
Mod
Thanks for officially introducing yourself! And here is your official welcome 😉
W E L C O M E
A Y O ! ! !
Mod
Haha! Welcome, Ayo - glad to have you onboard 😁
Hi, I'm Melissa, she/her.I may also mostly lurk around here, but I'll add input if the mood strikes, and recommend books as I come across them. (I don't trust my memory well enough for any older reads.) I only recently became aware of the term/genre Hopepunk, and after feeling alienated by grimdark readers, it has been validating to find other readers/groups with similar tastes.
After peeking through the threads, I just want to commend you all on this venture. I'm beyond impressed by the clarity and thoroughness of the discussions, focusing the scope of the project, best practices, etc. Makes me sigh to take in all this delicious Competence Porn - I trust this group to make thoughtful decisions. Entering this space, I feel protected and secure, and... an unexpected flush of oxytocin. Thank you.
Mod
Lurkers are welcome, inputs and bookish recs always much appreciated 😁
And thank you so very much, it's so incredibly gratifying to hear you say that you feel safe here! That's our n. 1 goal really (besides the practical one of crating a handy database of "do better" SFF of course), your comment is positively heartwarming 🤗
Mod
I may also mostly lurk around here, but I'll add input if the mood strikes, and recommend books as I come across them. (I don't trust my memory well enough for any older r..."
Welcome welcome! Sorry, I missed your lovely and kind post!
I want to echo everything Elena said! And to also thank you for noticing and commenting on our approach. For this project to succeed we feel it's important to be as inclusive and transparent as possible.
And also thanks for the new word - competency porn. 😂 I have felt that exploring the work of others and now I have a name for it.
Hi All! I'm Daniele, a current resident of the mid-west by way of New England and Florida. I am a science fiction and fantasy author but I enjoy reading it just as much as I like writing it. I am super excited to chat with other SFF fans and learn about other new releases. I am a big supporter of other debut authors.
Mod
Hi Daniele! Thanks for stopping by 😃
Feel free to check out guidelines and discussions in our recommendation thread for some insights into what we, as readers, are hoping to see more/less of in our SFF.
Hello Beige and everyone! I’m Tasha....she/her...writing to you with Francois the cat, from the Pacific Northwest. Book, animal and rain lover. 🦋🐞☔️🦔 I am newly trying to make GR a bit of an active hobby. Well, this is so wonderful! I love the idea of this group, and it comes at a perfect time for me in my personal reading journey. I’m guessing that sometime in the last year or two, a switch flipped, and I just became exhausted by certain things in certain books. Especially SV in my scifi, and my fantasy! Somehow it’s worse that in the middle of world building, SV is built in too! Added in, on actual purpose!
Breath. 😌
I’m excited to be here, thank you! I’ve also never been an active part of a GR group, and plan to give this a go...will start thinking of books now!
Nice to meet you all and looking forward to reading.
Mod
Welcome to DB Tasha (and Francois!) 😁 I'm honored this is the first GR group you decided to take part in 😉
I completely relate with what you said about the switch going off in your head and making you decide that enough is enough: I think the same it's true for many of us here... certainly, it is for me.
Looking forward to chatting books (without SV!) with you!
Mod
Hey Tasha & Francois! I'm so glad you found us! Welcomel
I joined active GR groups a few years ago and I haven't looked back since. I much prefer them to a monthly, in person club where you read a single book. On GR some of us talk about books every day and sometimes every hour 😂
I should mention that this group doesn't actually read together, we just share what we've read with each other monthly/or whenever we feel up to it.
If you're looking to read with others, Elena and I do moderate two other SFF/H groups that do so regularly and you're welcome to join if their themes interest you. While those groups don't specifically focus on reading books without SV, we do post content warnings so members can decide if the buddy read is suitable for them or not 😊
Worlds Beyond the Margins
Women of the Future
Hi everyone, very excited to find this community here on GR, very supportive of the effort to Do Better! I need to do a bit more homework before I nominate some books but I will definitely use your bookshelves to tailor my reading. I am in the same boat as Tasha, trying to make GR a more regular habit. I've been reading voraciously during COVID and hope to keep it up. Books have always been an escape for me and that was 100% the case over the past year, they have saved my sanity and helped me maintain my curiosity (where there is nothing to go out and do) and love of exploration (when there is nothing to go explore). Looking forward to helping build this amazing resource!
fyi I'm not far in, and so far it's pretty mild, but there is at least one attempted rape in The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue. Just a random report.
Mod
Rebecca, thanks for joining and saying hello! I hear you about books and the pandemic. Although, some months I've struggled to concentrate on reading. However, the GR community has been here for me and I have found talking about books is just as comforting and fulfilling as reading them 😁
We'd love to have your support. We actually have a little monthly chat where you can share all of the books you've read, whether they are suitable for DB or not. It's a good place to pop by and see some book chat through a "do better" lens. For some of our members, it's the onscreen SV they are hoping to read less of, others seek stories without even the threat/mention of SV.
February's chat is here
March's just opened up here
Mod
Welcome to DB, Rebecca! Glad to have you here 😉
Hello all. :) Super happy to find your group - a group I didn't realize I needed until two recent reads. I also decided to dust off my GR account and start tracking my reads in earnest. I'll do my best to make good recommendations. Thank you!
Welcome! I'm not active enough here, but I'm very glad that this group exists, and that new members are joining!
Mod
Hey Louise! I'm so glad you found us! We've moved to a monthly format where we share our recent reads and recommend books we think might be suitable for the Do Better shelf. And once a month the mods research and validate the suggested books and add those that meet our agreed upon group guidelines
Join us for our monthly chat whenever you have time 😁
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...
Hey all :) Love the mission of this group and wanted to just kinda exist here. I love SFF, so hopefully I can contribute something.I work in libraries, so resources like these are super helpful when informing book purchasing decisions and weeding out problematic authors.
I'm so impressed by all the work you've done.
The bookshelf looks amazing, but a little overwhelming. Is there a key for what all the abbreviations mean? z- e- mc-rep- and so on?
Mod
Welcome, Sarah! I'm so glad you found us :) We're a long term, slow moving project, relying on member's contributions. Stop by whenever you have something to share 😁
Or join our little monthly chats , which we discuss everything we are reading, from a do better lens
As for the bookshelf, I'm a former bookseller so I try keep things organized. Here is our approach:
E - these are some of the lighter "elements" of the book. We chose these because when you list content warnings, the books can appear to be very dark and not all of them are
MC - Main character
Rep - Representation. We'll add more of these in the future. We try to focus on well reviewed rep, not tokenism.
W - common content warnings
Z - our take on sub genres. We just use "Z" so they clump together at the bottom of the list
We use something similar at our other groups:
Worlds Beyond the Margins - our SFF/H group that focuses on adult LGBT & BIPOC authors and stories
Women of the Future - our group that focuses on adult SciFi and Speculative Futures written by Womxn.
Mod
And Sarah, welcome too 😁
Thanks for the welcome! And thanks for the extra info, Beige.I get that it's a slow-moving project, since someone actually has to read the books with critical eyes engaged!
SV has featured heavily in books I've read recently, and ones where it hasn't are problematic for other reasons so I wouldn't recommend them... browsing through my 'read' list and it's slim pickings for recommendations. I'm hoping that I can contribute as I go, though.
The booktriggerwarnings wiki is a brilliant resource that I'm glad I found through the group info. Thanks for that.
Hi Maddie! I'm a fellow Seattlite! Welcome :)
hello. Found out about this group due to a post on another GR group I recently joined. I'm a big SFFH fan. I am happy to hear this group exists as I've grown tired of a lot of the things found in my fave genre these days. Exhibit A: GRRM. I know he's well loved but I can't stomach his books because the SV and atrocities are everywhere in them. For similar reasons I'm not a fan of the Grim Dark genre as a whole.
Another pet peeve is cursing. I might give a shot at a book if it's "creatively" PG type cursing the way used to be done in the Farscape tv series but if it's just straight up standard obscenities then I pass. I've DNF books for that one feature alone even if I've liked everything else. Obscenities - for me - are jarring enough it breaks the 4th wall (to use a tv trope) and pulls me out of the story.
And then there's the big benefit that this group will help me find books in my fave genres that will genuinely bring something new to the table. Lots of stuff to explore.
Best wishes to everyone.
Hi there!My name is Ross Eberle. Ray Eberle is my grandfather. You can find an article about him on Wikipedia over here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Eberle ...Check him out if you want.
Though I am by no means bragging about who I'm related to. I am in my 30's, and have come here to gain at least a few more friends and followers. I'll gladly get to know you, of course.
And last, but certainly not least of all, I'd like you all to know which I am an author, who is in the process of completing a series, where women of all ages are empowered and respected without obligations or expectations. They serve as both leaders and role-models, to both men and other women alike. I just wanted you all to be aware of this, because to many times have I read about or seen sexual violence in books, TV shows, and movies. This kind of sleazy 'work' does nothing other than to detract readers and viewers away from what could have otherwise been quite a remarkable story.
Cheers from Ross! \o/
P.S. Where can I go to make friends in this group?
Mod
Welcome, Ross. This group is not the typical bookclub. We are a database project, members are welcome to submit their recent reads for review. We do not read together regularly and most members opt not to use our general chat threads.
I recommend you check out other SFF groups for friendships. But a word of advice. Some groups have dedicated threads for self promotion and some do not allow it at all. As per GR's author guidelines, you should check their policy before you jump in.
All the best!
Mod
A big welcome to the 16 people who decided to join us this month. We hope you find our bookshelf-database helpful. And, in the future, we hope you'll find time to contribute SFF reads you recently read that you think might be suitable.
Let us know if you have any questions 😃
Beige wrote: "Ross wrote: "P.S. Where can I go to make friends in this group? ..."Welcome, Ross. This group is not the typical bookclub. We are a database project, members are welcome to submit their recent re..."
Thanks a lot, Beige! Sorry for not responding in a week or so. My life has been quite hectic, recently. But I'll keep on searching for what I seek in the hopes I'll soon find it.
Thank you for this group, it's wonderful.
Mod
Hey, Rhea! Thank you for stopping by and saying so.
Slowly, but surely we are building a great looking bookshelf-database. Be sure to pop by and suggest books you've read that fit. Even if it's already on our bookshelf-database, it's great to get another confirmation.
Do Better: SFF without Sexual Violence
Books mentioned in this topic
The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue (other topics)In the Vanishers’ Palace (other topics)
Ecotopia (other topics)
To Be Taught, If Fortunate (other topics)
The Tombs of Atuan (other topics)
More...
