In-Between Books Chat Area

[Sandra]

Yes, Steinbeck and Dickens are two of my favorite authors. And some were very accessible to students. Oliver Twist and Of Mice and Men frequently made it to the “best-loved books” list. To Kill a Mockingbird was at the top all twenty years I taught it.

[Sue]

Diane, I have some large, and odd, gaps in my reading. I continue to plan to fill them in but then something new comes along.

[Yvonne]

Right before pandemic hit last year I read East of Eden and then planned a Steinbeck-centered trip to the Monterey area. (I live in East Bay SF.) Got cancelled cuz covid. Still looking forward to going there later — and reading more of his work.

[Ken]

I think my Steinbeck credits extend to only four books: The Grapes of Wrath, East of Eden, Of Mice & Men, and The Pearl.

And Sandra, I can't imagine high school kids wading into an unabridged Oliver Twist.

But thanks for reminding me about To Kill a Mockingbird. Another of those "read in school and never once since" classics!

[Sandra]

I reread Mockingbird every year for twenty years. I never grew tired of it. I know teachers don’t read each novel every time they teach it, but I did. That was hours of reading as well as hours of correcting essays. I didn’t have time to read other books. I’ve enjoyed retirement.

[Diane]

I've read Mockingbird 5 or 6 times just because I love it.

[Kathleen]

I didn't read Mockingbird in school, but we had a copy at home. I remember seeing the film when I was still pretty young, and I picked up the book afterwards, and thought about how perfectly the words went with the movie music. I didn't actually read the book until I was older, but did love it then, the movie score playing in my mind as I read. I'll never be able to separate the two, and as good as the book is, I think I love the music more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssz7Q...

[Nick]

Ken wrote: "I can't imagine David Copperfield being assigned in high school. Way too long.

In fact, by the time I reached h.s., a veteran teacher said they had given up on teaching Moby Dick and so taught ins..."

You would like Cannery Row and Tortilla Flat, Ken. I like Steinbeck a lot, his shorter works are some of the best. We read The Pearl in school, that was my introduction to him.

[Carol]

Steinbeck was and still is a favorite of mine. The only one I had trouble with The Winter of Our Discontent. I read it but his writing for me had deteriorated. I lovedTravels with Charlie in Search of America
A d all the rest. I read The Grapes of Wrath and did a report in high school about it.

[Ken]

Nick wrote: "Ken wrote: "I can't imagine David Copperfield being assigned in high school. Way too long.

In fact, by the time I reached h.s., a veteran teacher said they had given up on teaching Moby Dick and s..."


The Pearl was pretty unpopular with 7th graders in my school. As I taught 8th, I didn't have to teach it. In my Curriculum Coordinator years, though, I'd visit the 7th grade classrooms while The Pearl was being read to share this sidesplitter:

Q: What did Kino say to his wife every morning when he woke up?

A: "Juana" make some breakfast?


Now that I've given you a few moments to compose yourself, here are the books I read and taught every year in 8th, the grade most teachers did not want to teach for some reason:

The House on Mango Street (Sandra Cisneros)
The Outsiders (S.E. Hinton)
Night (Elie Wiesel)
Romeo & Juliet or A Midsummer Night's Dream (Ummm...can't recall the author right now)

The first was the most enjoyable because, over a few weeks, I read the whole thing in front of class and had a chance to indulge in a little (and sometimes a lotta) dramatic reading.

Such, such were the days...

[Kathleen]

Lucky kids, Ken! That sounds like fun. And my respect for you grows, knowing you taught 8th grade. **shudder**

[Ken]

Kathleen wrote: "Lucky kids, Ken! That sounds like fun. And my respect for you grows, knowing you taught 8th grade. **shudder**"

Thank you, Kathleen, though it has to be said that 8th graders can be funny and fun to teach. It's a tough age, sure. You need only think of yourself at age 13-14 to realize. Speaking for myself, I had a tough go of it as an 8th grader. It's kind of a time of conversion between acting like a kid and acting like an adult.

[Kathleen]

Ken wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "Lucky kids, Ken! That sounds like fun. And my respect for you grows, knowing you taught 8th grade. **shudder**"

Thank you, Kathleen, though it has to be said that 8th graders can ..."

Spoken like a very understanding teacher, Ken. Yes, thinking of myself at that age is exactly what makes me shudder! But nothing in my many years has lived up to the hell that was middle school, in so many different ways--something I'm very grateful for! The bright spots of memory are a few wonderful teachers I will never forget.

[Nick]

Ah, teen humour, so amusing, Ken. Some of Steinbeck’s novellas would only take a lazy day to read. I would not want to travel back to year 8 and 9, although I do remember going to the school library a lot back then, so not all bad. The Winter of our Discontent stands out as being a bit different to others, Carol, certainly not up there with some. Did you read The reign of Pippin IV? (Nor did I.) That could be considered “obscure”. I liked Travels with Charley, was that his only non-fiction? The House on Mango Street - I have not heard of it, Ken. I’m currently reading The Far Pavilions by Kaye, so far so good, in fact really good. Jan Morris has described it as a Gone with the Wind for the north-west frontier! Maybe. It’s on a reading list I know.

[Ken]

Nick wrote: "Ah, teen humour, so amusing, Ken. Some of Steinbeck’s novellas would only take a lazy day to read. I would not want to travel back to year 8 and 9, although I do remember going to the school librar..."

The House on Mango Street , written by Mexican-American author Sandra Cisneros, is a collection of vignettes (most 2-4 pages short) that, taken together, outline the coming of age of a young girl in Chicago who dreams of someday having a house of her own -- you know, like the ones on TV (assume: The Brady Bunch).

The vignettes are prose but so poetic that the line is often blurred. Girls liked it better than boys (naturally), but we made it work for everyone thanks to all the creative doors Cisneros opens.

Whether you would enjoy it or not is a jump ball. Not much of a plot or story line. Kind of Impressionistic in that, taken collectively, you see the bigger picture. Great as writing prompt material, which is what I liked best! I had the kids write 4-6 vignettes based on SC's examples and call it "The House on (Fill in Name of Student's Street)."

[Bionic Jean]

Ken wrote: "I can't understand why we were forced to read Dickens' Tale of Two Cities. I read a lot of Dickens on my own as a college and post-collegiate guy, and that's probably the worst Dickens novel I read ..."

It really is a dreadful choice for a first read, but I'm afraid it's often chosen because it is short. Ditto Hard Times. Neither is a good intro.

I'd like to read some John Steinbeck with the group. All I've read by him are Of Mice and Men and The Grapes of Wrath - but I'd be happy to reread either, and get some proper insights :)

[Danielle]

I'm starting The Ox-bow incident this evening. Apparently the people who read it really dig it, so I'm excited. Anyone else starting anything fun?

[Darrin]

I remember reading The Ox-bow Incident when I was in high school. I remember it being a pretty good read though it has been quite a while and I don't remember much.

I am trying to wrap up Ron Chernow's, Washington: A Life, which is good but it has taken up way too much of my reading time being over 900 pages and I will be really happy to move onto something else. Once that is done, I have the following cued up to read and/or am reading concurrently:

The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen
New Suns: Original Speculative Fiction by People of Color, ed. by Nisi Shawl
All the Light We Cannot See by Anthony Doerr

[Ken]

Danielle wrote: "I'm starting The Ox-bow incident this evening. Apparently the people who read it really dig it, so I'm excited. Anyone else starting anything fun?"

I'm in one of those "tweener" periods where I pick up as-yet-unread poetry books around the house while I wait for library books to arrive from the hinterlands (the Hinterland Libraries apparently carrying more of the kind of books I read).

[Darrin]

I have learned to love and appreciate inter-library loan!

[Carol]

My libraries are lame in the books I like to read selections. I have the city and county, they both suck.

[Ken]

Luckily, I can draw from almost the entire state of Maine. The problem with most libraries is me, not the libraries. They logically cater to books most likely to fly out the door multiple times -- bestsellers, romance novels, crime and suspense novels, Generic Book Group USA novels.

These are not my strong suits. These are not even my suits.

[Bionic Jean]

Our libraries open today - YAY! England is slowly opening up from lockdown, and this is one of the "concessions". I have three books out, and have had them out since March last year! Not the ones I would have chosen either, had I but known :(

I am lucky; able to not only have access to all the books in the county where I live, but because I live on a border, I can access those in another county plus London and a county in the West Country :) So I rarely use interlibrary loans.

[Diane]

I just used interlibrary loans last month for the first time. I'm a fan!

[Kathleen]

Ken wrote: "These are not my strong suits. These are not even my suits."

Ha! My library is the same, and I'm grateful for interlibrary loan too.

Right now I'm finishing the last book in the Kristin Lavransdatter series, and it is so good! I'm also reading my first D.H. Lawrence, Sons and Lovers, and loving his writing. He reminds me of Hardy. :-)

[Sandra]

Oh! Love D.H. Lawrence! I should read “Sons and Lovers” again. I remember walking around my college campus with it and quoting passages(and Dylan Thomas’s verses) to friends.

[Bionic Jean]

So funny Diane and Kathleen. I took the one book to my local library up the road - only to discover it was an interlibrary loan after all! I took it out so long ago that I had forgotten.

In the meantime the second book can't be taken back as they are rebuilding the library, (I never expected that!) and the third is from a different area altogether. I may have to post that one back, if I can't persuade my dog to accept a lead for a long time. He travelled to us from Romania 4 weeks ago, and is coming on nicely, but still has his private nightmares. Poor dog, he was brutally treated in the pound.

Kathleen, oh yes I know what you mean about D.H. Lawrence and Thomas Hardy :) I haven't read anything by Sigrid Undset yet, but really want to!

[Sue]

I have the Sigrid Undset trilogy on my kindle but haven’t yet started it. I am amazed by how many books I haven’t read sometimes, especially when they have been high on my list.

[Kathleen]

I hear you, Sue! But I hope Kristin rises to the top, for both you and Diane. I haven't been able to put it down the last few days, and I'm almost done. :-)

Diane--how awful that your dog was mistreated. I do hope he continues to do well.

Sandra, what a great image of your college days! I'm so glad we have Goodreads so we can still indulge in quoting passages to friends ...

[Bionic Jean]

It's actually me, Kathleen, with Wolfie dog from Romania :) (We called him that because he looks like a Carpathian Shepherd dog).

Yes, he has a bad leg (the broken bones mended themselves wrongly) but it doesn't stop him bouncing around when he gets happy! And that's really lovely to see :)

[Ken]

Did anyone watch the Ken Burns biopic series on Hemingway? What a mess of a man, equally deserving pity and scorn, though I do love three of his books.

In one, A Moveable Feast, he offers that his favorite D.H. Lawrence is Sons & Lovers, which I read many, many moons ago. He was not a fan of Women & Lovers, however. I read that one, too, I think -- but never got as far as The White Peacock, Lady Chatterly's Lover and such.

Three cheers for rescue dogs and those who rescue them!

Singrid Undset? I definitely read the first and part of the second. Then I fell into a fjord or something.

[Diane]

Strange happenings in my house. My husband, who is not a lover of fiction, but did read The Old Man and the Sea in high school, insisted that I record Ken Burns Hemingway, and is happily watching it every night after I go to bed. For myself, "the literary one", I have absolutely no interest because I never liked Hemingway, or his writing style, or his macho lifestyle and treatment of women. Go figure.

[Ken]

The conclusion: He was consumed by the persona he created. And good for your husband.

Tell him, when it comes to Hemingway books, he can do better than The Old Man and the Sea.

[Kathleen]

Bionic Jean wrote: "It's actually me, Kathleen, with Wolfie dog from Romania :) (We called him that because he looks like a Carpathian Shepherd dog).

Yes, he has a bad leg (the broken bones mended themselves wrongly)..."

I'm sorry Jean! I was thinking of you, but wrote Diane--too tired to be posting! He sounds lovely, and like his spirit and your care will get him through!

[Kathleen]

I thoroughly enjoyed the Hemingway series, and agree with you Ken about the mess that he was. I appreciate hearing about his favorite DH Lawrence!

And I can see falling into the fjord with book 3 of Kristin. I found the first half a little bit of a struggle, but flew through the second half.

[Sandra]

The high school principal where I taught loved Hemingway. We used to have heated “discussions” because like you Dianne, I didn’t care for the macho persona. I told the principal to try Sarah Orne Jewett instead if he liked reading about nature. I’m reading “Migrations” right now.

[Ken]

Sandra wrote: "The high school principal where I taught loved Hemingway. We used to have heated “discussions” because like you Dianne, I didn’t care for the macho persona. I told the principal to try Sarah Orne J..."

Well, if you peel away the persona and focus on the writing alone, you might treat him with a bit more leniency. Nature plays an important role in some of his stories and books, but a minor role in others.

I am a fan, but I admit some of his writing is "take it or leave it." But I genuinely admire The Sun Also Rises, A Farewell to Arms, and A Moveable Feast. I also admire many of his short stories.

At times he could be a real capital-R Romantic and a soft touch. Plus there's that androgyny hangup he had where he had his wives role play sex reversals with him.

But really, it's the writing alone that matters in MOST cases (except extremes). I like a lot of Knut Hamsun's books, for instance, but as a Nazi sympathizer, he loses all credibility as a human being.

It's an old argument, I know.

[Sandra]

Ken, I must admit that I do like some of Hemingway, a few of his short stories worked well for my students to use as a piece of prose reading in Forensics. And now I appreciate his writing style more than when I was younger. I like his clarity.

[Sue]

I decided not to watch or record the series. I did like A Moveable Feast but found A Son Also Rises just so so. And have never been “inspired” to read further. Like many, I have been turned off by much that I have learned about him and also how he treated others in his life.

[Bionic Jean]

It's fine Kathleen :) I do the same myself ... and thank you!

I'm looking forward to the next "pick", and hoping it will be something American, or otherwise equally a bit out of my comfort zone.

[Ken]

Sandra wrote: "Ken, I must admit that I do like some of Hemingway, a few of his short stories worked well for my students to use as a piece of prose reading in Forensics. And now I appreciate his writing style mo..."


Wow! "Forensics" sounds like a top-notch class. Where I taught, we had exciting offerings called "English Language Arts," is all.

[Ken]

Sue wrote: "I decided not to watch or record the series. I did like A Moveable Feast but found A Son Also Rises just so so. And have never been “inspired” to read further. Like many, I have been turned off by ..."


Did you enjoy any of the short stories, Sue? Many are gloomy due to EH's fascination with death, but they're executed with uncanny precision. The best short example I can think of is "Indian Camp" in his first story collection, In Our Time. The final line haunts you.

[Ken]

Bionic Jean wrote: "It's fine Kathleen :) I do the same myself ... and thank you!

I'm looking forward to the next "pick", and hoping it will be something American, or otherwise equally a bit out of my comfort zone."

Only another week or so till the call for nominations goes out. The variety of nominated books, from classic to contemporary, this genre to that, is always amazing, but tough choices are kind of fun, no?

[Diane]

I sometimes feel that an author's work should be all we consider, because their lives are so messy (as are all lives). Its hard to separate the author from his work when you know too much about them. Maybe Elena Ferrante had the right idea.....remain anonymous.

[Bionic Jean]

Diane wrote: "Elena Ferrante had the right idea.....remain anonymous ..."

Well it succeeded in my case. I haven't the foggiest who she is!

Ken - "tough choices are kind of fun, no?" Yes :)

[Diane]

Thats funny Bionic Jean, LOL funny I mean. She wrote the Neopolitan quartet, starting with My Brilliant Friend. Whether you've read them or not, I assumed everyone knew about them.

[Sue]

Ken, I haven’t read any of his stories and really had no idea where to begin. So I never did. Thanks for the suggestion. I will try following through with it.

[Ken]

Sue wrote: "Ken, I haven’t read any of his stories and really had no idea where to begin. So I never did. Thanks for the suggestion. I will try following through with it."

You can just pick a few to sample online if you want here.

In addition to "Indian Camp," which is tough, but I like it, some of the more famous stories are...


The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber

The Snows of Kilimanjaro

Hills Like White Elephants

Soldier's Home

Big Two-Hearted River Parts I and II

My Old Man

[Sue]

Thanks Ken. I’ve made a note of these.

[Carol]

I always feel as if I am in a newsroom when I read Hemingway. I like the style.