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The Life of Charles Dickens
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Group Side Read - The Life of Charles Dickens: Volume 1 by John Forster
Yes, I have the illustrated copy, there's a couple of pages that have been clawed through though, my cat Kai was young when I read it (he's only 4 now) and he jumped on the book and hung on while I was reading so I might have to switch to an electronic version for a chapter if we read it in the group. I find that when I reread a book or rewatch a movie, I liked it more the second time around because you know what to expect and just enjoy the ride, so I wouldn't be surprised if I liked Barnaby Rudge more the second time around (though I probably would not vote for it now since my read is a little recent).
I am doing the strangest thing now - reading Claire Tomalin's biography of Dickens in parallel with John Forster's! Not sure which one I am enjoying more. Tomalin's biography is more "readable", as she explains more clearly how all these numerous friends and acquintances relate to Dickens. With John Foster, some people literally "come out of the woodwork", with no introduction. JF probably presumed that we should be well familiar with "who's who" in mid-1850's, so there is no need for explanation.
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Oh, that's the one I had pencilled in for us! But given that few libraries were open at the start of this, it didn't seem a practical proposition.
It's fascinating to hear your thoughts though, as the two seem to complement each other! It sounds an excellent idea :)
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Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
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Chapter XIVFinally after many obstacles and a hard labor Barnaby Rudge is born. Like I said earlier, I’m not in love with that novel, but it’s still Charles Dickens’ work and enjoyable. For somebody from Canada, I had never heard before of the history it covers so it was “informative” (with a grain of salt since it’s historical fiction).
Grip’s death was a nice inclusion in this chapter, but castor oil and gruel for a raven? I wonder how it lived that long! Dickens and his friends seem to have found him entertaining, but as jokingly referred in the letter the children didn’t like him or his successors, Kate Perugini (his daughter) mentions it later in her life.
Chapters XV-XVIDickens was an advocate for the poor, and opposed the poor laws in 1941. The conditions at the workhouses were terribly cruel.
Dickens and Kate traveled to Scotland for two months in 1841. Chapter XV is about the wonderful welcome given to him where he was the guest of honor at many dinners.
Chapter XVI tells of his adventures going through the Highlands guided by Mr Angus Fletcher (Mr Kindheart) who had a good sense of humor and became a good friend. Dickens wrote to Forster telling him about the cold rains, dangerous roads, and unappealing inns. Their carriage almost was swept away as they tried to cross a river. Forster does not mention Kate's reaction to this trip, but I imagine she could not wait to get away from the torrential cold rains and get back home!
One of the places they visited was Glencoe where there was a narrow dangerous pass that they traversed in torrential rain. (I've been wanting to read Corrag about the Glencoe Massacre so reading about Dickens' experience reminded me to push the book up on my list.)
I had read elsewhere that this trip is where Dickens found his name for Ebenezer Scrooge. He saw a gravestone with the name Ebenezer Lennox Scroggie, A Meal Man. (Dickens thought it said "A Mean Man.") He used the name later in "The Christmas Carol."
France-Andrée wrote: "Chapter XIVFinally after many obstacles and a hard labor Barnaby Rudge is born. Like I said earlier, I’m not in love with that novel, but it’s still Charles Dickens’ work and enjoyab..."
Grip was sick, but I wondered if it was the castor oil and gruel that pushed him over the edge! At least the raven lived on as a character in Barnaby Rudge.
I can't remember where I read it, but Edgar Allen Poe's poem, The Raven, was also thought to be inspired by Grip.
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Maybe in my review? ;) I'll put part of the relevant bit here:
Charles Dickens explains in his preface to Barnaby Rudge that Grip is based on a pet raven he himself had had, called Grip. It wasn't his first, but it was the one he loved most. His own raven died in March 1841 - ironically and sadly in the middle of Dickens writing this novel - from eating lead chips.
Dickens had it stuffed, copying King George IV who had had his pet giraffe stuffed. It is still on public view, incidentally, in a museum in Philadelphia. Grip was also the inspiration for Edgar Allan Poe's most famous poem, "The Raven". Edgar Allan Poe admired Charles Dickens, and paid tribute to Grip in a review of Barnaby Rudge, which he wrote for a magazine, saying that the raven should have served "a more symbolic prophetic purpose".
France-Andrée - you might actually enjoy reading my review LINK HERE
because it goes into what is fact and what fiction, and since you have mixed feelings about the novel. For Charles Dickens only other historical novel, the much later A Tale of Two Cities, he did a lot more research, as he had been stung by critics pointing out his inaccuracies. He actually carried around a great historical tome written by his friend for that one ... but I'm sure we'll read about it in a later volume.
When my sister-in-law visited us here, she happened to be reading Barnaby Rudge, and was amazed "The Maypole Inn" was so close. We drove past it for her :)
Jean, I enjoyed the interesting information about Grip. I must have heard about Grip during a library presentation about Poe and "The Raven" last Halloween. I love reading about all the interconnections between the talented writers, artists, etc.
As much as I felt sorry for Grip (or his namesake in real life), I was surprised that much more attention (and consequently, more detail in JF's memoirs) was given to a bird's death than to the birth of CD's son which happened around the same time. Come to think of it, CD's children were really "seen and not heard", and barely even mentioned by JF - although he mentions missing "the darlings" greatly during his trip to America (in later chapters) and expecting letters from them all the time.
I'm not as far along as you all are yet but I also find that JF steers far away from CD's family. The wedding was barely mentioned and the birth of his first child also. This does seem to be a biography of the man and his works; not the man, his works and his family. The family seem to be off-limits for a public biography.
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I would have loved to be there with you, Connie!
I haven't reached this part yet, but it must just be John Forster who regarded children like this, as Charles Dickens was besotted with his kids, and always arranging little plays with and for them, and so on. When they were older, it was he who discussed their plans with them, or advised them what to do.
The down side of this is that when he left Catherine, he took all but one of the children with him. That must have been so unusual in those days - and was so cruel :( Quite apart from anyone else, think of the public humiliation Catherine must have suffered.
Petra - "This does seem to be a biography of the man and his works; - yes, I think so. John Forster was such a loyal and true friend, and he could not bear to cast aspersions on Charles Dickens's behaviour to his wife, so he left well alone - it was no doubt easier. And Nelly Ternan was completely off limits!
This is still relatively early in CD's marriage history, but he speaks very warmly of his wife's companionship during his travels to America. Although he mentions several times that she scrapes her ankles, gets scratches on her legs, etc., he says at the same time that she makes a wonderful traveler and never complains about the hardships, fatique, etc. In fact, she behaved in an absolutely heroic way joining him in crossing the stream in an inclement weather near Glencoe in Scotland. But that must have been well before Nelly Ternan's time.
Jean, just wanted to quickly mention that Claire Tomalin's "Charles Dickens" is available for free on Internet Archive (archive.org) to borrow for 2 weeks. Don't be put off by the button "Borrow for 1 hour", and pick an option next to it, "Borrow for 14 Days" (it's not immediately visible). And then it can be returned and borrowed again...
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When we went to Glencoe it was beautifully sunny. Stunning scenery! But the hills are huge, and do loom, so I can imagine how dark it can be, and what it's like in a storm.
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Thanks Helen - I do have the book (in Large Print too, which is great!) but this is really useful information for others here :)
Chapter XVIWith all that Highland rain, there was a gothic feel to this chapter or is it just in my mind? I would not have been surprised if a tall dark stranger had come along and kidnapped Kate! To come back to what is actually in the book, there’s is a lot of temerity in crossing the overflowing water, older people would probably have waited, stopped and enjoyed their vacation. It seems that with over scheduling, the fun is taken out of their adventure though if it’s true that Dickens was OCD, it might show here.
France-Andrée wrote: "Chapter XVIWith all that Highland rain, there was a gothic feel to this chapter or is it just in my mind? I would not have been surprised if a tall dark stranger had come along and kidnapped Kate..."
You must be thinking of Lorna Doone! This chapter was very different than the sedate previous chapter in the city. The writing in Dickens' Highland letters was exciting in Chapter XVI. I almost felt like he was embellishing things a bit to make the letters interesting, but who knows?
Connie: I haven’t read Lorna Doone but I just added it to my TBR.Just a question before I read the next chapter, Martin Chuzzlewit is mentioned in the chapter header and since I haven’t read it, is it safe to read on?
France-Andree, I only read an abridged version of Lorna Doone when I was about 13 years old. Parts of the story are exciting, but other parts dragged. A handsome man from one feuding family kidnaps the woman he loves, Lorna Doone, from the other feuding family, and carries her off on horseback. So your comment made me recall the book. It's a very long book so you might want to talk to someone who has read the whole book. But I guess I'm getting off topic.I haven't read the next chapter yet so I can't help with the Martin Chuzzlewit question. I'm planning on starting it tonight.
The trip through Scotland must have been a dreadful experience. The descriptions of the weathers made for awful travelling in those days of carriages. Chapter XVIII
I'm surprised (again) at the closeness CD felt with Kate's younger sister, Mary. Five years after her death, he still feels the pain of separation keenly.
This book scoots over a lot of background detail. It seems to be geared towards people who already know the outline of CD's life. I've read a biography previously, so have a faint idea of what's happening in the background, but if this were the first biography that one read of CD, it would be a bit uninformative, I think, while still giving a good feel of the man and his thoughts.
Chapter XVIIIPetra, it seems like Kate's whole family thought very highly of Kate's sister, Mary. But it does seem unusual that Dickens wanted to be buried someday next to Mary. "I cannot bear the thought of being excluded from her dust; and yet I feel that her brothers and sisters, and her mother, have a better right than I to be placed beside her. . . .It seems like losing her a second time."
Back to Chapter XVII, and Chapter XVIIIForster wrote that Dickens sent him some anti-Tory rhymed squibs, and included one of them in this biography. He said they were written in the manner of Peter Pindar. This is the pseudonym of the English satirist John Wolcot (1738-1819).
Sir Robert Peel was the British Prime Minister, Conservative Party (Tories). Forster assumes that the reader knows about 19th Century British politicians. Dickens was concerned about the poor, prison conditions, and child labor.
Forster and Dickens worked out an agreement with a publisher that a new serialized book would be published after another year had passed. (This would turn out to be Martin Chuzzlewit, but there are no plot details in this chapter.)
Dickens wanted to travel to America. He writes to Forster, "I am still haunted by visions of America night and day. To miss this opportunity would be a sad thing. Kate cries dismally if I mention the subject. But, God willing, I think it must be managed somehow."
Most of Chapter XVIII is concerned with preparations for their ocean voyage to America, including making arrangements for the children while Dickens and Kate were away.
I'm finding Dickens' letters to be delightful--informative, fun, sometimes humorous, and full of emotion. Even when he was dashing off a letter, he made an effort to make it interesting.
I agree, Connie. The letters are the meat of this biography and the true points of interest. The words bring Charles Dickens to life, somewhat. They are his words, his feelings, his thoughts, etc., so wonderfully told in true Dickens fashion. Without them, this book would be desert-dry.
I agree too without the letters this wouldn’t be very interesting. I wonder if the other biographies by John Forster were as dry.
Chapter XVII - XVIIIThank you Connie, I am being careful about Martin Chuzzlewit, it is the only Dickens novel I haven’t read, I’m probably going to stop reading this biography when it start giving that one away.
Chapter XVII, my mind went on a walk about there the second political parties were mention, I went a little Dora-ish and tralala was all I was understanding, I’m not good with Canadian politics of the now so 19th Century English politics confuse me even more! Though I like the sort of “poem” Dickens wrote.
Chapter XVIII, I always like when great men meet in history and Washington Irving and Charles Dickens corresponding gave me a thrill... for some it’s actors, me, it’s historic authors.
It’s sad how Dickens was feeling about not being able to be interred next to Mary Hogart, but I think her family had to have priority. I guess they believed where their bodies ended up was important, to me it’s just a shell I don’t need to go visit or to be buried near my loved ones, but it’s probably more a modern idea. We see with the death of Catherine’s brother, the heart condition she passed to her sons rear it’s ugly head; a lot of the Hogarts and family died from it.
France-Andree, I'm glad I'm not the only one who is zoning out when it comes to 19th Century English politics! "Dora-ish" is a wonderful expression!
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Yes, good idea. I'm adding spoiler warnings to the first comment, but they'll only really help readers who read this in June, as I'm behind you!
Chapter XXDickens developed a hearty dislike for steamers making their way across an ocean. He did make a couple of very good points as to why they were dangerous.
I'll be glad when he leaves America and goes back home. There are some fun times and interesting adventures, but mainly it's dinners, parties, schmoozing.
He says he's thronged with people whenever he leaves his residence. I wonder if he got his walks in at all while in America. How he must have missed them.
Chapter XXDickens seems very fatigued by the constant socialization as Petra mentioned. He's decided to refuse any new invitations. I was excited to read that he traveled through my home state of Connecticut as he visited Hartford, New Haven, and Wallingford. Dickens is considering getting out of the cities, and going a bit west to the wilds of the Alleghany Mountains, but people are telling him that it's a very rough trip.
He can see more signs of slavery as they head down the coast to Baltimore. He writes about Congress discussing the separation of the States. ". . . I do fear that the heaviest blow ever dealt at liberty will be dealt by this country, in the failure of its example to the earth. The scenes that are passing in Congress now, all tending to the separation of the States, fill one with such a deep disgust that I dislike the very name of Washington (meaning the place, not the man), and am repelled by the mere thought of approaching it." Dickens is traveling in 1942, 19 years before the start of the American Civil War, but he can already see the writing on the wall regarding some states wanting to hold on to slavery.
Regarding international copyrights, Dickens writes, "I have in my portmanteau a petition for an international copyright law, signed by all the best American writers, with Washington Irving at their head. They have requested me to hand it to Clay for presentation, and to back it with any remarks I may think proper to offer." (Congressman Henry Clay was the Speaker of the House.)
Dickens has been mentioning "The Notes" in passing a few times in Chapters XIX and XX. He's referring to the American Notes For General Circulation, a travelogue about his trip to America from January to June 1842. Chapman and Hall published it in October 1842. I imagine we'll be reading more about "The Notes" later.
From what I recall in other readings, Dickens worked out an arrangement of sorts related to American Notes with Forster. Dickens wrote a lot of letters to Forster during the trip. Forster saved them all, and the letters were used by Dickens to form the whole of American Notes when he returned to write it. An excellent idea, I would say.
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Chapter XIXI almost got seasick, truly I felt nauseous, but hadn’t realized it was the book until they landed and I felt alright again! What a voyage so dangerous...
The “inimitable” doesn’t sound very modest, I understand that it started when he was young through a teacher, but to refer to yourself by that word is a little like Julius Caesar and Napoleon talking in the third person when referring to themselves. Having all that adoration from the american fans probably didn’t help the ego too, I find Dickens sounds a little arrogant (am I wrong?).
Good news, checked the rest of the chapter titles and Chuzzlewit is not in this volume so will be able to finish the read and there’s a chapter with the word Montreal in it! I’m all excited to know that Dickens came here... I just missed him by a couple of centuries :P.
More good news (well, not for my TBR), I added American Notes For General Circulation and Two Years Before the Mast: A Sailor's Life at Sea by Richard Henry Dana Jr. to my future reading.
I started reading this early on, but decided it conflicted a bit too much with reading David Copperfield, so I sidelined it. I am ready to pick it up again and hope to finish it in July. I'll have lots of catching up to do with the posts here. Looking forward to everyone's insights that I have missed.
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I can see how you would, Jean, especially since you know so much about Dickens' personal life. I'm looking forward to this account now that David Copperfield is coming to an end.
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We'll then begin our Summer Reads, LINK HERE for which we still need at least one more volunteer, please.
Reading, Chapter XXI, I am not envious of their time... spitting is the one thing that will make me sick every time I see someone do it, all that spitting in America in that chapter is disgusting.I have had to kick myself to continue this read... Forster's writing is so dry, it gets animated only when he is quoting and another frustration is because of the American Notes For General Circulation, he's just jumping things and not explaining! Well, it's a good way to encourage STRONGLY the reader to go read it if they haven't, but he takes for granted that the reader has and he would only be repeating things like I said a little frustrating.
I agree. Forster's writing is very dry. Thank goodness for Dickens' witty, entertaining letters. Throughout this read, I thought we'd have a more fun time with a huge volume of Charles Dickens' letters, although I suspect that those to Forster wouldn't be included and these letters are enlightening.
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There's a part of Martin Chuzzlewit which ridicules those spitting. I suspect it's one of the sections of the novel which made Americans dislike the book at the time. In it Charles Dickens is really critical of some worthies' table manners too. I think he must have been quite shocked.
(Please don't shoot the messenger, guys! I've never been to the States.)
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I have a collection in mind which would be just the ticket :) Hopefully after the coronavirus stops interfering with our access to books!
The thing I wonder about is in his letters Charles Dickens talks about the humour and wit of John Forster calling them Forsterism, but we don’t see any of that in the book. Did Forster decide to take his own personality from his writing to better represent his subject or was Dickens deluded? I think it’s probably the former if there’s a volume of Forster’s letters we might be enlightened on that one, but I’m not even sure I would risk it then again there’s always DNFing it, but it’s something I rarely and hate to do.
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Like you, I think so. It reminds me of great actors, who are so generous that they don't steal a scene, if they are playing a lesser part. They underplay their role, so that the main actor can shine, even though they know they could grab the attention. I don't know his other books but John Forster wrote a lot. And didn't he say that he abandoned his biography of Geoffrey Chaucer, in order to write this one of his friend?
I was surprised about all the letters mentioning spitting tobacco, and see why Dickens would find it disgusting. I guess chewing tobacco must have been very popular at that time. (Baseball players sometimes chew tobacco in the dugout in modern times, but I can't remember seeing people spitting tobacco anywhere else. It might be a regional thing.)
I don't think it's a regional thing now. When we watch westerns they do have spittoons, I think it's more of another time and now we also know about the cancer... some baseball players have paid that price.
Finished. I got a little confused about why he didn't go to California and then reading on I realized that the Far West didn't reach there at that time, it's easy to forget those things when it's not your country.
Was a little jealous when he got to Niagara Falls, I was supposed to go there this year for my vacation, but that will not happened now maybe next year, here's hoping.
And finally, was disappointed that Montreal meant only the English minority and aristocracy... but I had to remind me of the time (and there I know my history) and realize that an English author writing in english would not be popular with the french mainly working class (and farmers... like my ancestors who barely read in french; and thinking about it mostly still in France at that point! so he could have met my native ancestors who didn't speak English so reading it... sorry, stream of consciousness a bit there). Still a nice bit about his theatricals.
Have to say if I had been American at that time, I would have found Dickens opinions about the population of the United States very offensive; I thought he had some good points (and not saying this is true now just going with his description) especially about slavery and copyrights.
France-Andrée wrote: "Finished. I got a little confused about why he didn't go to California and then reading on I realized that the Far West didn't reach there at that time, it's easy to forget those things when it's..."
I was also confused when Dickens wrote about Ohio as the Far West. The time was after the Louisiana Purchase (1803) which is now the United States Midwest, but that territory was mostly a home for the Native American tribes. Lewis and Clark explored that western area from 1803-1806.
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
The Old Curiosity Shop (other topics)Barnaby Rudge (other topics)
The Life of Charles Dickens, Vol. 1 (other topics)
Nicholas Nickelby (other topics)
American Notes for General Circulation (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
John Forster (other topics)John Forster (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
John Forster (other topics)
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At least there won't be any spoilers to speak of in John Forster's book, because it's all historical.
If you have a copy with illustrations, the "Maypole Inn" on the first page is just down the road from us :) Most of the action is set around here. We don't still have highwaymen though!