The Pickup by Nadine Gordimer

[Kris]

A group will be reading The Pickup by Nadine Gordimer in April 2015. We'll provide more information about a schedule closer to the start date of the read.

[Deea]

I'm in:).

[Diane S ☔]

Count me in on this one. Love Gordimer.

[Kris]

So glad, Deea and Diane!

[Gary]

I'm in. Have always intended to read more by her.

[Lily]

May you find it of interest. The Pickup is not a difficult nor lengthy read, but can be very thought provoking. Hopefully it will stimulate a good discussion.

[Jasmine]

I look forward to it!

[Douglas]

I'm looking forward to this as well.

[Zanna]

I will join - I've ordered the book = )

[Yolande]

So far I am loving this book. The writing style is hypnotic.

[Lily]

Wow! It is really April already. 2015 is evaporating. Yolande --glad you are liking The Pickup. It is one of those books with at least one unforgettable twist to me. But let that be my only foreshadowing. Not sure I am going to find time to re-read, but I will probably do so if the discussion demands it to refresh my memory. The Pickup is a book I have read more than once. I like the set-up in the early pages -- just what is going on here.... Created an anticipation and questions about what is going to follow.

[Lily]

Anyone still following The Pickup? What are you thinking, Yolande? I was really struck by the question mark placed to Western/First World materialistic values -- even while acknowledging the structures of freedom, and bondage, within which they are available.

[Lily]

Hello out there---??? Anyone reading or willing to comment/engage on this book?

[Jasmine]

Oops... I'm awfully sorry, Lily! It seems that this got lost somehow. Weren't we supposed to prepare a reading schedule or something?

It's a pity that you had to read the book alone. I see you gave it 5 stars, therefore, I assume you had a great time with Gordimer's novel nontheless. I own the book and as it seems that nobody will join the 'club' I am most probably going to read it by my self sometimes this year...

[Lily]

Jasmine wrote: "Oops... I'm awfully sorry, Lily! It seems that this got lost somehow. Weren't we supposed to prepare a reading schedule or something?..."

The Pickup is short enough that I'm not sure it needed a schedule, although we certainly could or could have spread reading it over two or three weeks. Its total length is ~288 pages.

I actually read it several years ago and now re-skim it from time to time. So, I was just poking around here to see if anyone is interested in discussing it.

I don't particularly consider it "a great time" novel, but I do feel Gordimer does an exquisite job of asking questions about the materialistic Western world with its freedoms and opportunities versus certain values of support and mutuality still observed, perhaps particularly in feminine enclaves, in so-called third world countries -- and how those perspectives might vary, male versus female, past experiences versus present conditions and resources. No didactic answers here, only subtly phrased possibilities and concerns, that rather hit one in the face.

If you do read it, Jasmine or Yolande, and are interested in discussing it, send me a private message and I'll come back and join the conversation.

[Jasmine]

Thanks, Lily, I will read the book and I look forward to discussing it with you.

[Yolande]

Lily wrote: "Jasmine wrote: "Oops... I'm awfully sorry, Lily! It seems that this got lost somehow. Weren't we supposed to prepare a reading schedule or something?..."

The Pickup is short enough th..."

Sorry I didn't get back to this, I was really busy for a time. I also haven't gotten any notifications for when someone comments until now. Strange, I get them with some threads but not with others. I have thought some about what I want to say about this book and will put it up soon :)

[Yolande]

THERE WILL UNAVOIDABLY BE SPOILERS

So here it is. My impression of this book is that it concentrates much on identity and maybe even what we define as our own identity. I'm going to quote this scene that highlights this:

"And now's the time: there has been no description of this Julie, little indication of what she looks like, unless an individual's actions and words conjure a face and body. There is, anyway, no description that is THE description. Everyone who sees a face sees a different face - her father Nigel Ackroyd Summers, his wife Danielle, her mother in California, remembering her, her contemporaries of The Table, the old unpublished poet; her lover. The face he sees is the definitive face for the present situation. The two air tickets he holds in his hands, turns over, unfolds, verifies, materialize a face, her face for him, that didn't exist before, the face of what is impossible, can't be. So what she was, and now is - what the woman Julie looks like comes through his eyes."

Gordimer waited until this moment to actually describe what Julie looks like, which is another puzzle piece to fit into our sense of who she is. As we see from this quote, each member of Julie’s family has a different idea of Julie’s identity. She presents a different ‘face’ to each person in her life. It says something about the inconstancy of identity and that one fixed identity of you does not exist. This isn’t a new idea though. I’ve encountered this idea about the difficulty to fix identity in especially post-colonial South African literature; it’s quite a big subject in the genre and appears in most of those books that I have read so far. But the image of the changing faces of Julie brings home to me the fact that you can have multiple identities in interacting with different people. I like the fact that a person’s identity evolves through the influence of other people and through situations in life. A fixed identity is something we shouldn’t be looking out for in ourselves. That’s why to “find yourself”, something that is very popular in movies is a silly idea because there is not one “you” to be found and then you’re set. You will always be changing from year to year and you can develop any part of yourself you want to.

Julie does something I think no one expected of her identity as a rich girl who can have anything she wants, she decides to move to this poor country with Abdu/Ibrahim which will cost her all the comforts she has been used to. In that moment when she hands him two tickets, it’s like the essence of her identity comes out. A person few people in her life rarely see because they are probably defining her identity by her lifestyle. Who thought this rich girl would dare to go live in an Arab country (the country is also not specifically identified in the novel) with a low economy and also difficult for a woman to live in who is used to the freedoms for women in a Western culture. Many of the reviews I’ve seen for this novel comments that Julie is naïve for leaving with him, not understanding what she is getting herself into, but I think although she starts out naïve she adapts to the new country and it’s conditions. She is remarkably content in this harsh environment considering her background. It shows a big development in her identity, that there is a substance in her that starts shining through.

There is also the identity of Abdu/Ibrahim. For starters, he starts out with a pseudonym so already his real identity is hidden behind the image of an illegal immigrant working in a garage. This other than with Julie feels to me like an exploration of the experiences of identity someone has who has moved permanently to a different country. The usual displacement of culture and landscape and the struggle to fit in any where or to break through the specific cultural identity others in the new country will have of such a person. But Ibrahim is a strange character to me, I can’t quite figure him out. I don’t think we see as much of what is going on inside him that what we see with Julie. All we really see is that he desperately wants to stay out of his birth country and start a new life with better living conditions. He admits at some point that he saw Julie as his ticket to permanently escape his country but I do think that along the way he did fall in love with her, especially when he sees her among his family. Yet I feel there is not really enough of him to say much else than that.

I agree with Lily that the book contrasts the pros and cons of Western Culture and the cultures developed in poorer countries. The fact that Julie decides to stay in his country in the end proves that she found something among his family that she couldn’t find inside all her riches and freedom in her own country and that is a true family. I believe her decision was strongly influenced by the fact that she didn’t get along with her father and to a lesser extent not really with her mother either. And here among Ibrahim’s family she finds real family connections she never had before and I think this is something she didn’t want to let go of. So displaying the support and togetherness that you find in such a culture that is rare in Western Culture. I think this is sad, because even though individual identity is important to me, I feel that the Western Culture has taken it too far where it’s everyone for him or herself and a lot of the times you are left too isolated and also in this type of environment often kindness and honesty disappears and it becomes difficult to trust people. So even though I don’t like the severe restrictions the Arab world has on women, I do like the community support they have for each other. To illustrate this support, I heard from one of my friends how they have this practice where a woman who has given birth is given rest for a week while everybody in the family does everything for her in that time, including looking after the baby. That must be a wonderful break for a new mother. The contrast of these cultures in the novel shows how everything is not always black and white with certain cultures and that there are good elements to be found in each culture.

My overall feeling of the book is that I also agree with Lily that to me it is not a “great time” novel but I did love the almost impressionistic way in which Gordimer told the story and it leaves one with much to think about. But the end was like, that’s it? I kind of expected a bit more than such an abrupt ending. He leaves, she stays, end of story. I like this one instance where Julie remarks that you don’t know what water is until you live in the desert. That just makes me want to be even more careful of unnecessarily wasting water than I already am ;).

[Lily]

Thank you for your comments and your note, Yolande. I will write more after I think about your comments a bit.

I may have already said on this column (haven't gone back to look) that I think this would be an excellent book to include in AP courses (high school seniors/junior level) and freshman college courses. It seems to me that it touches on so many issues of culture, identity, and even politics without drawing conclusions. It comes across to me as a "coming of age" novel that takes the reader well into the yearnings of and perhaps naivete of youth, without moving on to the later journeys of life. I'd probably enjoy leading a discussion of it in a classroom of affluent international students.

I'm not certain the book would be as readily understood by young people in sections of the U.S. where immigrants might not experience the conditions, say of the NYC restaurant business, or where few parents in the community had the affluence, divorce rate, or international mobility of Julie's. But I still think, especially under the guidance of a thoughtful teacher, exposure to the thoughts and ideas of the book could be useful to young people growing up in an increasingly global world.

[Zanna]

Ugh so sorry I missed the discussion - I've been super busy. I did read the book though (I read while commuting so the more I work the more I read) and have finally managed to write a quick review

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Lily]

Zanna wrote: "Ugh so sorry I missed the discussion - I've been super busy. I did read the book though (I read while commuting so the more I work the more I read) and have finally managed to write a quick review
..."

Don't know that the discussion has gone away. Enjoyed your review, Zanna. I perhaps get less perturbed than you by writers of the sensitivity of Gordimer trying to bridge the empathy/understanding gaps intrinsic unless people speak for themselves, but I think I hear your point and it is appropriate to bring to our attention.

[Lily]

Yolande wrote: "...each member of Julie’s family has a different idea of Julie’s identity. She presents a different ‘face’ to each person in her life. It says something about the inconstancy of identity and that one fixed identity of you does not exist. This isn’t a new idea though. I’ve encountered this idea about the difficulty to fix identity in especially post-colonial South African literature; it’s quite a big subject in the genre and appears in most of those books that I have read so far..."

Yolande -- I didn't realize this aspect of "post-colonial South African literature," -- and appreciate encountering it. Will now look at it elsewhere. Am wondering if it is that geographically isolated, or might apply more broadly to post-colonial literature, at least for Africa, which might have some particular strong influences fragmenting identity.

Only playing with the possibilities as I write this.

[Zanna]

Thanks Lily x

[Traveller]

Agreed about the not having a fixed identity thing- one cannot really afford it in today's fast-moving global village.

Yolande wrote: "To illustrate this support, I heard from one of my friends how they have this practice where a woman who has given birth is given rest for a week while everybody in the family does everything for her in that time, including looking after the baby. That must be a wonderful break for a new mother.."

Hmm, where it is true that in the West we don't have close extended families anymore, it is often simply impractical to do so since people tend to live all over the world these days. My own extended family, for example, tries to get together over times like Xmas, but with them scattered literally over 4 continents, sadly we see more of one another at funerals these days. I suppose weddings too...

Anyway, that aside, there is still support in the West from neighbors and co-workers and communities in general for women having babies... Things like baby showers etc. Just saying.

[Yolande]

Traveller wrote: "Agreed about the not having a fixed identity thing- one cannot really afford it in today's fast-moving global village.

Yolande wrote: "To illustrate this support, I heard from one of my friends ho..."

Yes, my own extended family is also too far away for regular visits. We recently gathered for the wedding of one of my cousins but it has been a long time since everyone got together again.

For the baby thing, I was just thinking more in the lines of helping the mother taking care of the baby for a while so that everything is not thrown on her alone. And just so it doesn't look like the dad isn't expected to do anything, that help did include the dad :)

[Traveller]

Ah, okay. Welll, unless the rest of the family also sprout milk-producing breasts.... but yeah, I suppose them helping with housework or something would help. :) Thing is, in the West, one has so many modern conveniences.... the biggest job is keeping the baby clean, and you could just as well change the diapers after feeds. So the big thing is waking up at night to feed and clean baby, and unless you're using formula milk which I hope people aren't doing anymore, Mom has to wake up anyway for feedings.

Btw, I don't even have this book yet - just that someone asked me about books about Africa, and that I hadn't read any Gordimer yet, so I thought I would peek and see what the women's group says. :)

[Yolande]

Traveller wrote: "Ah, okay. Welll, unless the rest of the family also sprout milk-producing breasts.... but yeah, I suppose them helping with housework or something would help. :) Thing is, in the West, one has so m..."

I'm actually not certain about the details of how they go about that, they probably still bring the baby to the mother for feeding and help with housework. I just thought it sounded like a sweet sentiment. As for everything about the conveniences of modern life - clearly I have no idea what entails taking care of a baby since I haven't had one myself :p I would also imagine there would be plenty of mothers who would want to do everything themselves out of love for the new baby, therefore wanting to spend as much time as possible with him or her :)

[Traveller]

I must be upfront with this: I am an absolute pushover, a complete sucker for babies. I simply adore them and I cannot resist them. Always have been, so I suppose I always will be. In fact, around me, if there's a baby in sight, people ending fighting about whose going to hold the baby.... XD Oops!

[Yolande]

Traveller wrote: "I must be upfront with this: I am an absolute pushover, a complete sucker for babies. I simply adore them and I cannot resist them. Always have been, so I suppose I always will be. In fact, around ..."

That's good ;)

I on the other hand, am awkward with babies, can't help it. I like them but I'm sort of scared of them too haha.

[Traveller]

Hey, it takes all kinds! If we all fought to hold them, the babies would be torn apart, and if nobody was interested in them, Homo Sapiens would die out, so I guess nature has its reasons.... ;)

[Yolande]

^Haha exactly!

[Lily]

And it is not the maternal issues at all that make this novel so memorable and haunting to me. It is the contrast of the values and the opportunities and the costs of the two worlds. No particular conclusions, just sort of a "this is the way it is" if you make yourself aware of certain attributes. One is a yearning for freedom, for opportunity without awareness of the difficulties (e.g., illegal employment in side street NY restaurants); one is world-weariness from international travel, wealth, education, splintered families and adoption of constrained life-style in exchange for intimate familial relationships. To explore the costs and the opportunities each of the two main characters chooses to incur -- good topics for debate/discussion.