Dickensians! discussion
Just About Dickens
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Adaptations for stage and screen, and ...
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What a great selection! Thanks for sharing it, John. Several were new to me :)
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And here we have the opposite view! The thing is, I can see where each of these are coming from, but it's not black and white, is it?
Of course Charles Dickens is better on the page; even if all you read for is the story, (as some do), then it's far more fully realised that way. But why deny ourselves the pleasure of a visual feast, and one person's interpretation of it (assisted by many others)?
I've said elsewhere that Charles Dickens's first love was the stage. He wrote to bring in the money, but was involved with the theatre, and acting the parts he created until his death. His doctor actually told him it would kill him. The scripts he wrote for his performances are still extant, full of crossings-out, additions and "stage directions" to himself. How do they fit in with the purist view that one has to read his novels?
Equally, it is simply ridiculous to say that a film of one of Dickens' novels is better than the book. It misses so much - whole major characters and scenes are jettisoned - storylines are vastly simplified and sometimes distorted - and that is before one gets into the nuances, wit, and shades of meaning.
I can't find the book at the moment as I am elsewhere, but a critic from the early 20th century, who wrote the introduction to one of his novels said that Dickens was made for the theatre. His stories are dramatic and can be told over and over again - and he loved to do this himself. He had his finger in so many pies, that I personally think he would have loved to see all the different films etc. we have now - and would have wanted to be a part of it too!
Thanks Mark, for sharing this too :)
I think one of the most important things a novel can give us that film and stage cannot easily is access to a character's thoughts, intentions, or even stream of consciousness. Whether it is 3rd person omniscient or 1st person narrative, you can be put in their shoes in an intimate way. When Huck Finn tells us that he's decided he'll go to hell rather than turn Jim in, or we learn how reality and Newland Archer's phantasies diverge in The Age of Innocence, those thoughts can be added to a script but there's a limit to how much of it can be done without becoming tedious on film or stage. (I'm not a literary critic so maybe I'm wrong.)
When we read Little Dorrit I plan to take note of the inner life of the characters that Dickens decides to grant us access (sometimes he denies us access for dramatic effect, if the character has a secret or secret intentions). And how much of that could be easily surmised from just their actions and speech.
I get that only showing the external is also a style and I'm not saying that isn't a good approach. But learning what the character is misunderstanding, hoping etc is a different way of experiencing a story. From the inside.
As a counter example, there is an amazing short scene in Our Mutual Friend where Dickens simply describes a character as staring off into space and twirling her umbrella on the floor, and you know what she's thinking at that point without him having to say a word. It's brilliant.
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I entirely agree! And Charles Dickens takes it one step further, sometimes. For instance, in David Copperfield there are four distinct voices (young David, Old David, omniscient narrator and the author (Dickens) himself). Yet at time he seems to blend two, with one sentence beginning with one voice and ending with another! It is one of his deceptively straightforward reads, yet astonishingly complex. I guess because Charles Dickens had kept so much of the early content secret for so long, and still feared it being widely known as broadly true (as you'll probably be aware, some is taken verbatim from his unpublished and incomplete autobiography).
Actually, although I don't want to say too much, Little Dorrit does seem to have two viewpoints, separated. It's not as distinct as in Bleak House for instance, where Esther's narrative alternates with an omniscient one, but looking at the book as a whole, Little Dorrit falls into two parts, (as it is now published) with different concerns, and thus different focuses and views. This is because the narrator tells us the inner thoughts of the first person in the first half, and the second in the second. But having said that, there is more of the omniscient voice than either - and on two or three occasions - as I remember - Charles Dickens's indignant or passionate voice breaks through, much as it does in the early novels such as Oliver Twist ... although I personally think that is evidently the work of a young author, and some diatribes are in need of being reined in!
Ah, again I concur. Our Mutual Friend is masterly - his best novel, in my opinion. By then his character delineation had become so superb, that we can indeed know what someone is thinking; their inner thoughts and how they will react, just because we "know" them so well.
One of the adaptations that was really good was the BBC’s Bleak House. I believe it aired about 15 years ago. I purchased the entire series and watched it at my own leisure. I think for a better understanding of a complex book, it is very helpful. I plan to go back and watch it again soon. I also would like to see the Great Expectations adaptation with Gillian Anderson as Miss Havisham. From what I read, her performance was a tour de force.
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Is this the one also with Gillian Anderson - as Lady Dedlock? It was excellent, although the speedy circling round each character took a bit of getting used to! I think this is the one you mean as it aired in 2005. (8 hours over 15 episodes - the first was a double.)
There was also another superb dramatisation of Bleak House, which was broadcast in 1985, and starred Diana Rigg as Lady Dedlock. Roughly 8 hours (8 episodes).
I have both on DVD, and that dramatisation of Great Expectations too! Another recent one starred Helena Bonham Carter as Miss Havisham - but I didn't think that was as good.
Sometimes I wish I could take the actors, complete with their portrayals, from one dramatisation, and put them in another!
Jean, yes, I have the one with Gillian Anderson playing Lady Dedlock. The earlier adaptation from 1985 sounds pretty good, too.As I recall, the actress who played Esther in the 2005 adaptation also gave a good performance as Mary Shelley in The Frankenstein Chronicles.
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Oh yes, and she was Beelzebub in the miniseries of Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch! A very versatile actress :)
You all probably know about this but the entire 8 hours of the 2008 Claire Foy/Matthew Macfadyen BBC version of Little Dorrit is free for streaming if you are an Amazon prime member. I'm guessing there are no national restrictions. What may be less well known is that the 1987 Little Dorrit with Derek Jacob and Alec Guiness and a little-known actress as Dorrit--that is also available to stream on Amazon. It is 6 hours long, in two parts. Part One is called Nobody's Fault, and Part Two is called Little Dorrit. But you need to get an US $8.99/month Starz subscription. You can cancel at any time. In fact you get a 7-day free trial so you could do the free trial, watch Little Dorrit, and cancel for free.
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But Bleak House and Little Dorrit are the only four miniseries which stand out in my mind as having 2 equally good versions of each. I do prefer the casting of the earlier Little Dorrit, as Alec Guinness seems to convey the shabby affected gentility of Mr Dorrit far better than Tom Courtenay, and Derek Jacobi is better at being unassuming than Matthew MacFadyen. Also the earlier one conveys the ennui in part of the book, far better. It would be a spoiler if I mentioned which parts of the more recent series I think are better and why! But they are in the second half.
I am in danger here of preempting our discussion during the read. For those who are not familiar with Little Dorrit, it may be better to chose one of these excellent series to watch later :) Alternatively some like to watch alongside the read, being careful not to go too far ahead!
Yes, best to watch after we read, I agree.
If anyone is an Amazon Prime member you might like to know that the new film adaptation of David Copperfield has just been included in membership. It was available before to rent, but is now free for members. It's the one with Dev Patel and I've heard it's very good. Even though I still haven't read the book yet, I'm very tempted to watch it!
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As you know David Copperfield was our first group read, before we began Little Dorrit. Lots of us loved it, and didn't want it to end(!) so hopefully some will be able to take this offer up.
I still haven't been able to see it. I gather from friends here that it is an extremely loose adaptation, but captures the verve, exuberance and humour of the novel :)
I hope you can join in our read of A Christmas Carol later, Sue.
Sue wrote: "If anyone is an Amazon Prime member you might like to know that the new film adaptation of David Copperfield has just been included in membership. It was available before to rent, but ..."I am an Amazon Prime member and I can't find the Dev Patel one to rent at all, only to buy on DVD. Oh, it's available for free in the UK, but not in the US.
Bionic Jean wrote: "I hope you can join in our read of A Christmas Carol later, Sue...."I watched it last night and I think exuberant is a good word to describe the overall feel of the film. There was a sense of energy and humour throughout. I thought the acting was wonderful across the board.
Anne I'm sorry you can't see it as part of the free package, perhaps it will be included later though? I think in the UK things go in and out of the free package from time to time.
I love A Christmas Carol Jean so I'll try to join in on that one.
It should get here eventually. We have one with Bob Hoskins I was thinking of watching. Anyone know it?
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Yes, that's the 1999 2-part series we talked about when we were reading David Copperfield. Bob Hoskins plays Mr Micawber. Amazingly, it has a very young Daniel Radcliffe as the young David, and Maggie Smith as Aunt Betsey :)
I posted a couple of photos from it earlier in this thread, plus an abbreviated cast list: comment 23.
It's well worth watching, Anne!
Thanks for your reply, Jean. I must have joined this group after you posted about it. I'll definitely watch it.
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Do you have Amazon Prime? It's free if you do.
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Has anyone read The Chimes by Dickens? It's a shorter, earlier Christmas work that shows some real evidence of perhaps giving some inspiration for A Christmas Carol!
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Actually Lauren, it was written a year later! A Christmas Carol was Charles Dickens's first ever Christmas Book in 1843, and he followed it up the next year with "The Chimes, a Goblin Story of Some Bells That Rang an Old Year Out and a New Year In". He was to write five Christmas Books in all, and then went on to an annual Christmas story. My review LINK HERE explains more, about the inspiration and how it came to be written.
Did you enjoy it? I do like Trotty Veck :) And the spooky bits!
I know you'll be joining in A Christmas Carol, so am looking forward to that one too :)
Now how did I get that wrong? Well, that makes more sense! Yes, it's a great story, heart-wrenching but great. And Trotty Veck is hard not to like. :)
I've read The Chimes - I think it's very dark compared to A Christmas Carol, but a powerful story.
Hello everyone! It's been awhile since I've posted here. I've gotten into a reading slump and haven't kept up with our latest read. However, this group is often in my mind.Earlier this week I watched the movie The Man Who Invented Christmas, starring Dan Stevens.
It was a weird trip of a movie with what seemed a very manic Dickens. That said, it was fun to watch this frantic story of Dickens writing The Christmas Carol.
The movie implied in some ways that Dickens had to face his demons (those from his childhood and working in the Blacking factory) before he could complete The Christmas Carol.
An interesting take on the process; not one I think actually happened, but an interesting take on the process.
I love The Christmas Carol, which made this movie an interesting story for me.
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I still haven't seen that film, although I would like to, I think, and view it as a fantasy based on a few solid facts, rather than a bio of Charles Dickens. It does sound interesting, and entertaining. Thanks!
Here's hoping - very much - that our read of A Christmas Carol will get you out of that reading slump :)
Thanks, Jean. I will get back to Little Dorrit. I was thoroughly enjoying it when I hit this "wall". I will comment in the threads when I can. I'm looking forward to reading the comments already posted. Oh, this movie is definitely a fantasy. What very little I know of Dickens life was enough to see that so much in the movie was not real.
John Forster was a main character, which I also found interesting due only to our first side read.
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Is anyone else excited to see Armando Iannucci's new adaptation of David Copperfield?
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Good to see it's arrived in Washington! I hope you'll come back and tell us about it Kirsten.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Ooo I really want to see it now :) I'd better not watch it in a cinema though, in case I inadvertently shout at the screen!"Jean, are people going to movie theaters in England now?
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It's a bit complicated :( I looked at the libraries this morning, but they mostly remain closed.
Bionic Jean wrote: "We're all still in lockdown in England until next Wednesday, and then have different rules according to what tier we are in. Tier 1 is pretty nonexistent - only one county and 2 islands! Most of th..."Your government seems to be doing a good job over there. Our government, as you probably know functions more like the CO than anything else.
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Mostly ...
Bionic Jean wrote: "I daren't really comment, Anne! But it's heartening to know that the political wrangling is at a minimum in the UK for this. Mostly they try to pull together, whichever party, and look at the Scien..."Yes. I have cousins in London (who both ended up with Covid) who kept me informed of what was going on there in the beginning when everyone was calling or writing "how are you doing over there?" Glad to hear that your government is mostly functioning well.
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Bionic Jean wrote: "Oh, I am sorry about your cousins, Anne, and hope they recover fully. All London is starting off in Tier 2."Thank you, Jean. It was early on, like in March. They are in their 70s, but in good health and they got very sick but recovered. It's my cousin and his wife. Their adult children brought them food every day during their recovery. They went to the hospital after one week of fever and were checked out and sent home to continue recovery. So, all is well.
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The director Christine Edzard made 2: 3-hour films. The first was from Arthur Clennam's point of view, and the second from Little Dorrit's. But this meant starting again at the beginning! So the first film goes up to the beginning of book 2, missing out the parts which Little Dorrit does not know about, and the second film begins back in the Marshalsea, with Little Dorrit's parents - before the book actually starts!
Also, some major characters are missed out completely. There is no Rigaud, no Cavalletto, no Miss Wade, no Tattycoram, and no Barnacles to speak of except Mr. Tite. So obviously the plot had to be changed a little in order to work.
It's an underplayed presentation, but there are things about it which are superb. The street scenes; in fact all the action set outdoors is very realistic. No cheating and using closeups! The characters seem a part of their environment. It's quite artistic, in that when we have the same scene viewed by Arthur, or Little Dorrit, the lighting is different, so it may look drab to Arthur, and glittering to Little Dorrit, and the camera lingers differently on their faces. But we are aware as we watch, that we have seen some scenes before.
The acting is excellent! Here is the main cast list:
Derek Jacobi as Arthur Clennam
Joan Greenwood as Mrs. Clennam
Max Wall as Jeremiah Flintwinch
Patricia Hayes as Affery Flintwinch
Sarah Pickering as Little Dorrit
Alec Guinness as William Dorrit
Cyril Cusack as Frederick Dorrit
Amelda Brown as Fanny Dorrit
Daniel Chatto as Tip Dorrit
Miriam Margolyes as Flora Finching
Bill Fraser as Mr. Casby
Roshan Seth as Mr. Pancks
Mollie Maureen as Mr. F.'s Aunt
Pauline Quirke as Maggy
Robert Morley as Lord Decimus Tite Barnacle
Eleanor Bron as Mrs. Merdle
Michael Elphick as Mr. Merdle
There is a book to accompany the miniseries, written by a Charles Dickens expert, Professor John Carey, called Little Dorrit: A Story Told In Two Films: Part I, Nobody's Fault, Part II, Little Dorrit's Story: From The Novel By Charles Dickens.
Please LINK HERE if you'd like to read my review of that book.
Bionic Jean wrote: "That's good to know! I hope they stay that way."Thanks, Jean. I think they'll be fine. :))
I was given a blu-ray of the two-part Christine Edzard version for my birthday in October, and am looking forward to watching it once I finish rereading Little Dorrit (I have fallen behind the group). I remember being impressed when I saw it at the cinema on release - it was only at a few cinemas, I think, but one of my local ones had it.
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When you come to watch your blu-ray disc, I'll be interested in what you think of the sound quality. On the DVD it is very variable. For some of the interiors the speech is so quiet that even with the volume turned up to full, it is difficult to make out. The background music is more consistent though (and all classical, which is unusual, and I liked).
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It feels so magical, to watch this on stage, especially with good sets and special theatrical effects :)
Has anyone else seen a memorable production?
Jean asked me to post here about an online production of A Christmas Carol. I was aware of two but have now found there are many options. Some may require paid tickets, and some are free. Here is a link that lists some:https://www.playbill.com/article/your...
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Oliver Twist (other topics)Dodger (other topics)
Oliver Twist (other topics)
Curious George Goes to the Hospital (other topics)
A Christmas Carol (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Charles Dickens (other topics)Terry Pratchett (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Julian Glover (other topics)
Lysette Anthony (other topics)
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"Dickens must be read to be appreciated"
'According to Leo Tolstoy’ s daughter Alexandra, he considered Charles Dickens to be literature’s greatest writer and “David Copperfield” its greatest novel.
And after I read Richard Roeper’s review of the latest attempt to cinematize David Copperfield, I am more convinced than ever that outstanding literature must be read to be fully appreciated. This is especially true of a writer such as Dickens, who meticulously and painstakingly crafted his characters and plots. To date, none of the myriad attempts to transfer Dickens to the silver screen have been successful, not even the million versions of “A Christmas Carol.”
'The reason for this is simple: his writings are too large and intricate for the movie format. To be sure, a few movies have partially captured the atmosphere of the author’s landscape, but they fall far short of displaying his true genius.
'If you want the real Dickens and not some clever screenplay that often plays like ‘“Alice in Wonderland as interpreted by Monty Python,” read this superlative book and run the gamut of human emotions.'
Samuel C. Small, Roseland
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/8/2...
(You'll have to scroll down from the top story to see the short article.)