Dickensians! discussion
David Copperfield - Group Read 1
>
May - June 2020: David Copperfield: chapters 1-14
message 101:
by
Connie
(new)
May 01, 2020 05:53AM
I enjoyed the first chapter. It has a lot of humor in it, as Jean mentioned above, regarding the lady that bought the caul and Aunt Betsey's antics. There is also foreshadowing of darker things to come if the superstitions surrounding his birth come true (born on a Friday, with his first cry as the clock struck midnight.)
reply
|
flag
Mod
Pamela - that's a good observation - the sadness opening and closing the chapter. And I wondered at this:
"my first childish associations with his white grave-stone in the churchyard, and of the indefinable compassion I used to feel for it lying out alone there in the dark night, when our little parlour was warm and bright"
when David hates to feel that his father (personified by the gravestone) is locked out of the family home. I wonder if this is really a child's reflection? But then perhaps it is, in that children cannot really understand death.
LOL that quotation of Aunt Betsey's you wrote made me laugh! And I love the image of her sitting with a wad of cotton stuck in her ears, to block out the sounds she does not want to hear :D
Mod
I also liked the humor which was sprinkled throughout and eased the realization of what a sad circumstance David has been born into. Coming into the world six months after your father has exited and being the child of such a young and inexperienced mother, is not an auspicious start for a boy. Aunt Betsey is a hoot and Dickens has a marvelous way of describing characters that make them come alive, in all their ridiculousness, right before your eyes.
Mod
Yes, she seemed more comic than frightening, although I could see how it might rattle you to have her show up and storm about the way she did. I was thinking how fortunate for David that he was Davina. Not sure why, but I had a flashback to Aunt March in Little Women. The gruff, but underneath pretty soft, type.
Mod
My grandma may have been gruff and scary on the outside, but had a heart of gold. And when I think how much she had to put up with, raising a family of 5 on very little, I can see why women of her generation and before seemed so "hard".
Betsey Trotwood must have been very frightening for such a softie as Clara, who was so innocent, used to being much loved, and probably spoilt a bit, and wouldn't say boo to a goose. She was grieving for her husband - and was about to give birth in matter of hours, so was in no position to feel confident, even if she hadn't been naturally so unassuming.
I enjoyed the first chapter and its tone as I am not in the mood for something gloomy right now. I like Dickens' humorous way of writing -especially in contrast to the difficult situation that is displayed. The setting is great - reading about superstitious people in small towns is a reminiscence of my upbringing. Especially my grandparents were prone to superstitions. I liked the part about the caul and the 92-years-old woman the best. Can't say much about Betsey yet. For me, there wasn't too much information provided but I'll see if there is more to come.
Happy reading everyone.
Mod
Aunt Betsey - "For me, there wasn't too much information provided"
Ah, it can pass you by quite easily! Although I've read this book several times, something which I don't usually pick up on until far later is this:
"An aunt of my father’s, ... was the principal magnate of our family. Miss Trotwood, or Miss Betsey, as my poor mother always called her, when she sufficiently overcame her dread of this formidable personage to mention her at all ... had been married to a husband younger than herself, who was very handsome, ... he was strongly suspected of having beaten Miss Betsey, and even of having once, ... made some ... determined arrangements to throw her out of a two pair of stairs’ window. These ... induced Miss Betsey to pay him off, and effect a separation by mutual consent."
So we do know quite a lot of Aunt Betsey's history, including that she was a battered wife, having been targeted by a sort of gigolo, and that she had to "pay him off". Most of her money went with this chap to India. Also we can largely deduce her personality by her behaviour in this chapter, as we've been discussing.
Then, at the end, she "walked out, and never came back", so although we suspect she has a larger part to play in this tale - or why put her forward so prominently - we have been told it will not be yet.
I can't say I know the way Dickens writes. The first chapter wasn't gloomy like everyone says for me too. But for me, it was a sad story (Like he being born after his dad died). With that having Aunt Betsey with the eccentric way she acts was humorous. When I read the first chapter first time It was disoriented to me. After that, I changed the edition I read and read it again using a different edition. After that, It was more understandable and enjoyed more with the story so I'm not sure if it will be hard to read or not. But I hope it will not hard to read. Maybe the story being told by a baby who wasn't born was confusing for me. I didn't expect anything like this. In the beginning, I couldn't comprehend someone could mention their birthday as though they witnessed it.
Thank you, Jean. I enjoy reading your thoughts about the first chapter. I didn't know what was caul and it was an interesting superstition to learn. Aunt Betsey sounds interesting I'm curious If he will ever meet her later and we could learn more about her.
Mod
When I read the first chapter again this morning, I thought perhaps an audio version would not help at all. So I am glad you followed and understood it!
We aren't sure how old the narrator is now, but talking about himself in the first person ("I was born") I think is intended to be whimsical, and add to the light, amusing tone :)
I'm pleased you found my comments helpful. It's difficult to know how much to post, but people can always skip them. And from now on, I think the style will not be so unfamiliar, and so will be easier to understand.
Aunt Betsey, in my opinion, is one of Charles Dickens most entertaining characters ever! But we will have to wait and see :)
I'm just starting - I have a much-loved Penguin, but the print seems to have become smaller since the last time I read it, so I've downloaded a Kindle edition, and will just refer to the Penguin for the notes and illustrations!
Mod
Make sure you check out the picture I posted of "The Rookery" in real life :)
My Large Print copy has an introduction by Angus Wilson, (which is actually an extract from a longer book I have by him), and I quoted a bit of it earlier. But I wouldn't recommend any first time reader read it, as it contains at least 3 important spoilers :(
Please be careful, if you read an introduction, everyone!
I just finished chapter one! I love it!
Mod
The fact that David Copperfield is born at Blundeston in Suffolk (it's in the north of the county, quite near to the Norfolk border) is probably the village's main claim to fame. I hadn't realised this, but the Blundeston village sign has a picture of David looking at the church:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cameron...
Here is more information about the connection on the village website:
http://www.blundeston.org.uk/copperfi...
To my shame, despite living in a different part of Suffolk, I have never actually visited Blundeston - I must put that right once lockdown is over!
Mod
That was the site I got my earlier info from, although the photo of "The Rookery" wasn't very evocative, so I looked for another. I like the village sign though, and was hoping you might have been there!
So when lockdown is over, you'll take another for us, right?
I love the mix of humour and wistfulness - Miss Betsey is very funny, but the sadness of Clara's plight is clear at the same time, and many lines are funny and sad both at once.I always like seeing quotes from other great writers in Dickens, and was interested to see the quotations from Hamlet in this first chapter (after we have heard that David was supposed to be able to see ghosts and spirits because he was born late on a Friday night!)
The doctor "walked as softly as the Ghost in Hamlet", and then there's a reference to the graveyard as "the earthly bourne of all such travellers" in the last line of the chapter, quoting Hamlet's "To be or not to be" soliloquy.
On the fairy reference, I think fairies in fairytales quite often storm off if they haven't been invited to a christening or feel they have been slighted in some way - as Miss Betsey feels she has by Clara daring to have a boy!
Bionic Jean wrote: "I think we must have cross-posted just now, Judy! See my post 96. That was the site I got my earlier info from, although the photo of "The Rookery" wasn't very evocative, so I looked for another...."
Sorry, I was actually following on from yours - I should have put a bit of your post at the top, as quite a few other posts then turned up in between.
I agree the photo of the Rookery on that site isn't very good as you can hardly see anything! The one you found is much better. And yes, I'll hope to visit and get some photos once I can. :)
Mod
I love this -and your great observations. Well spotted on spotting quotations from William Shakespeare. And also the disgruntled fairy, rather than a fairy godmother!
Look forward to your pics ...
Referring to the old lady who bought the caul-she didn't believe in people meandering across oceans but she certainly enjoyed her tea from far away.
I'm pleased at how comparatively 'easy' this one starts out. I'm mainly saying this because I believe the last Dickens I read was A Tale of Two Cities. That was a book I ended up loving, but found it rather tedious during the first section. I do love how the characters come to life on the page in this. My favorite kind of writing! I have a kindle version, but made sure I got one that includes illustrations, as I love to have this added experience. Aunt Betsey made me laugh too! Especially when she plugged up her ears with cotton, which I believe Jean mentioned above.
My son was born 'towards the small hours on a Friday night.' And it was on the 13th! I'll have to ask him if he can see ghosts ;D
I finished Chapter 1 and I am really enjoying this! I had such a clear image of Miss Betsey “with her feet on the fender, the skirt of her dress tucked up, and her hands folded on one knee.” She sounds like a woman who does exactly as she pleases. I loved the humor!My favorite passage: “Do you mean to say, child, that any human being has gone into a Christian church and got herself named Peggotty?” Still funny today!
My favorite part of Miss Betsey was that she paid off her husband to leave
Sara: I smiled at your comparison of Aunt March and Miss Betsey!
Great that everyone is enjoying the book and commenting. It doesn't matter if it's your first read or one of many, as there is always more to see. I guess I'll have to give in and pick it up again myself!I had forgotten that it starts with a tombstone. Great Expectations does the same thing. Victorians were very conscious of their dead, and it was common for people of all ages, including children, to die, sometimes suddenly. In recent years, we have forgotten what it is like to have death around us at any moment, and that is one of the shocking things about our present crisis.
This chapter is full of women - David's mother, Aunt Betsey and Pegotty.
Mod
Candi - the humour is so engaging, isn't it? I think perhaps Dickens was ensuring that people would keep buying his story, and not stop after the first issues. I'd certainly be hooked enough to spend a few pennies! And all the hints of dark times to come are a hook too, of course. We want to know what happens next.
Lori, Debra and Robin - I'm loving your enthusiasm and how you all enjoy the humour as much as I do :)
Robin - "I guess I'll have to give in and pick it up again myself!" YAY! I last read this 5 years ago, and it felt high time for another reread :) And you're right about the women. I think it's to add to the domestic feel of a young child's first years at this time. And also so that the first one we meet (apart from Dr Chillip) makes a big impression!
Mod
We meet Mr Murdstone, a dark, handsome man, who clearly has designs on David's mother, Clara. Here he is, painted in 1923 by Frank Reynolds:
Neither Peggotty nor David like or trust him much. We learn a little more about both Peggotty and Clara. Pretty, affectionate Clara is clearly a silly vain young woman, who has had her head turned by Mr Murdstone. Although Peggotty really rules the household, Clara will not listen to her warnings. Mr Murdstone takes Davy on an outing to Lowestoft, and here we see Mr Murdstone from the point of view of two of his friends, who although jokey, also seem hesitant in his company.
Here's an illustration of Davy and Peggotty which I quite like. It's by Jessie Wilcox Smith:
The chapter ends with Peggotty taking Davy for a "fortnight's holiday", to stay with her brother in Yarmouth. Clearly, this is just a way to get David out of the way, and something is planned between Mr Murdstone and Davy's mother Clara, who has fallen for his flattery and good looks.
Mod
I particularly liked the descriptions of Peggotty's buttons flying off every time she became emotional! Perhaps it wasn't so unusual ... I remember my mother saying that when she was a child they had to cut off their buttons every time a garment was washed, and sew them back on again! Otherwise they'd get broken when they were put through the mangle (rollers to squeeze out the surplus water). Life certainly was hard work in those days. And what a great image :)
Charles Dickens cleverly tries to persuade us, in case we think this is too vivid:
"This may be fancy, though I think the memory of most of us can go farther back into such times than many of us suppose; just as I believe the power of observation in numbers of very young children to be quite wonderful for its closeness and accuracy ... I might have a misgiving that I am 'meandering' in stopping to say this, but that it brings me to remark that I build these conclusions, in part upon my own experience of myself"
He's probably trying to forestall any criticism. But however much we believe, or perhaps think it is coloured by his later perspective, it is a delight to read :) Take this, when Davy is a little older (I think it's implied that this chapter covers quite a few years):
"and I could not help wondering, if the world were really as round as my geography book said, how any part of it came to be so flat. But I reflected that Yarmouth might be situated at one of the poles; which would account for it"
What priceless logic from a child's point of view :D
Mod
In Charles Dickens's earlier notes, Dr. Chillip was called "Dr. Morgan", and was based on the Dickens' family doctor - Dr. Charles Morgan - when they lived at Devonshire Terrace. His readers always thought they recognised him from some-one-or-other they knew in Suffolk, but they hadn't! The public must by now have been getting wise to the idea of Charles Dickens basing his characters on real people. It must have been a bit of a worry if you met him ...
I could picture little David having no understanding of who "Brooks of Sheffield" was when Mr Murdstone was talking about him using a code name. Sheffield is near the area where David lived. David is so innocent in some ways, but has good instincts about who he can trust.
David's mother pretty much had to marry again in order to support herself and her child. And since she is young and inexperienced it's easy for her to come under the sway of someone who is used to being in charge. Of course none of this happened in Dickens' own life but I do wonder if the observation on the round and flat earth might have been his own.
Mod
The point (ouch- sorry for the pun!) about "Brooks of Sheffield" is that it was a continuation of the idea that Davy ("someone") is "sharp" ie., clever. But knives are also sharp, and Sheffield, the City of Steel as it's known, is world-famous for its fine cutlery industry. So it's a joke, at Davy's expense, with no basis in fact. A good indication to us, as you pointed out, that Mr Murdstone is not to be trusted.
Oh, Clara, you foolish, foolish woman. Somethings I am thinking about:
• What does Mr. Mudstone get out of the marriage? Is there a trust for Davy somewhere?
• What would Charles Dickens think of zombies? He always seems to be mentioning the dead.
Thanks for the information on Brooks of Sheffield.
I also think the child's point of view is done very well.
Jean: I liked this chapter for the same reason and I also had snippets of my early years come to mind. Thank you for sharing your mother’s story about removing buttons from clothing before they were laundered. My grandmother had a wringer washing machine and I remember helping her hang the laundry on a clothesline to dry.
I loved the illustrations! I especially like the picture of young Davy and Peggotty. Their relationship comes shining through. Peggotty looks motherly, like someone young Davy can look up to and he literally is. Davy is at ease with her in contrast to the image I have of him addressing Mr. Murdstone.
Btw, is there a history of St. Paul’s cathedral “with a pink dome”?
I like the image he writes of dancing in the parlour with his mother, and his knowledge that she is pretty, and knows herself to be so. And Peggotty he regards as being handsome. "I thought her in a different style from my mother, certainly; but of another school of beauty, I considered her a perfect example." It seems many little boys are in awe of their mother's beauty when they are quite young :) All of David's harmless questions of marriage and re-marrying seemed to be getting on Peggotty's nerves. She has knowledge of this Mr. Murdstone courting his mother of which David does not yet quite understand. Poor David asking his innocent questions - it made me laugh!
I did not get a good feeling from Mr. Murdstone's glance:
"At this minute I see him turn round in the garden, and give us a last look with his ill-omened black eyes, before the door was shut."
Clara's pumping David for the flattering comments the men had made about her just showed how entirely immature and innocent she still is and how easily she succumbs to a man like Murdstone (who is so obviously slick).
Mod
No indeed! And a bit later Davy talks about the cast in one of them. We alway know pretty much straightaway who's good and who's villainous in Charles Dickens. So when we have a handsome character like Mr. Murdstone, who is obviously untrustworthy, Dickens can't resist putting some sort of signal, making his outward aspect match his inner evil nature. This time it's not just his demeanour, but his "shallow black eye".
Debra - "What would Charles Dickens think of zombies? He always seems to be mentioning the dead." He does! I can't think of anything I've read by him, including short stories, which doesn't mention the dead in some way; often graves or spirits. And some of these are really horrible and scary. Look at this one, to illustrate Trotty Veck in The Chimes:
But the difference between Charles Dickens and Edgar Allan Poe's preoccupation with death, is that although Dickens' ghouls may be grotesque and terrifying he never revolts his readers, or makes them gross.
And did you notice the fairytale reference again at the end of the chapter?
"whether, if she [Peggotty] were employed to lose me like the boy in the fairy tale, I should be able to track my way home again by the buttons she would shed."
Mod
The early impression Davy had of Peggotty and his mother, probably in his cradle, reminded me of how young children draw their mother, just as an amorphous blob with 2 sticks coming out for arms :)
Lori - St Paul's having a pink dome puzzled me for a while too. Apparently when Christopher Wren was in the early stages of designing it, some of his sketches were brown, and the revisions were pink, but that still doesn't seem likely for an illustrator to choose. Perhaps it was just artistic license?
A couple of days late, but I've now started this. It took me a bit to get into chapter one, but then chapter two really absorbed me. There's just so much detail on every page. Like you mentioned Jean, I really enjoyed the description of Peggotty, "eyes so dark that they seemed to darken their whole neighbourhood in her face, and cheeks and arms so hard and red that I wondered the birds didn't peck her in preference to apples". Earlier on, I loved his descriptions of trees outside his house - "the elms bent to one another, like giants who were whispering secrets" - really beautiful imagery.I also liked the fairy tale reference to the trail of buttons - presumably Hansel & Gretal?
I'm planning to take this slow, I can really see why people say Dickens should be read slowly as otherwise you'd miss so much. So I'll be pacing myself by reading just a few chapters, and reading across May & June. That's the plan anyway!
Mod
"when I kneel up, early in the morning, in my little bed in a closet within my mother’s room, to look out at it; and I see the red light shining on the sun-dial, and think within myself, ‘Is the sun-dial glad, I wonder, that it can tell the time again?’"
One chapter a day on average, pretty much covers it, as I've mentioned :)
For Steve, or anyone else just coming to this read, our comments on the text begin at comment 95, with the image of the cover. Earlier comments in the thread contain background information.
Thank you, Jean. Your comments make reading this book more enjoyable. After reading a chapter, I love to read your comments which makes it easy to understand and absorb the story. In addition to all, you said about Mr. Murdstone, I think the way he ridicules an innocent child (David) who doesn't know anything about what will happen soon, shows how heartless he is too. With time I love Peggotty more and more. About David's mother, I feel she know she is wrong about Mr. Murdstone but prefers to have an easy way out.
Mod
Thank you so much Nisa! It's difficult to know how much to put, and I was going to ask whether it is worth me writing the brief summary of each chapter. My idea was that it reminds us where we are, if we ever read on ahead. But I'll ask again after a few days, in case it's not needed :)
I think you are spot on with each of these three characters. David's mother does "prefer to have an easy way out". She's young and pretty, and does not have a lot of money to spend. She probably sees a fine life ahead of her, as the wife of Mr Murdstone. But Peggotty is a much better judge of character!
I agree with the comments about David's mother-she is an inexperienced young woman/widow with little knowledge of human nature. Peggotty is a better judge of character and I think generally more concerned about David's feelings than his mother.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Connie - actually Sheffield (the city where I was born :) ) is in South Yorkshire, in the North of England! It is nowhere near the county of Suffolk, in which is in the South of England.The point..."
Thanks for the geography update, Jean. I should print out a map of England to use during my reading.
Mod
I appreciate the explanation of the joke. I knew it was a veiled way of referring to David, so the gist was there, but it is interesting to know exactly why Sheffield was chosen.
Mod
Davy goes on the cart with Peggotty to stay with her brother "Dan" (or Daniel) Peggotty, in Yarmouth. They are met by Sam, a nephew of Mr. Peggotty (who was there at Davy's birth), who accompanies them back to the boathouse:
illustration by Fred Barnard, who was soon to be taken on Dickens' staff, as a regular illustrator for his magazine "Household Words"
Davy is enchanted with the boathouse, which used to be a fishing boat, and soon feels part of the "family". We meet the gruff but kind Mr Peggotty, who is a fisherman of lobsters, crabs and crayfish, and also shy Little Em'ly, who is like a pretty little doll. She is a niece (from another brother) whom Mr Peggotty is also raising:
illustration by Harold Copping, a later popular illustrator of Dickens' works. 1923
Finally there is Mrs. Gummidge, who is always miserable and complains a lot that she "feels things more than most people":
"I am a lone lorn creetur ... and everythink goes contrary with me."
She is a widow of Mr. Peggotty's partner, and all the family are kind to her.
Davy really enjoys his fortnight, playing with Little Em'ly on the beach. She shows him how brave she can be, climbing on some old wooden supports, and also confesses her dream to "be a lady".
At the end of two weeks, the cart returns, to take Davy and Peggotty home. But back at "Blunderstone Rookery", everything is different. Mr Murdstone is there, and Davy's mother is very subdued and quiet; seemingly timid of of Mr Murdstone.
Peggotty explains to Davy that he "has a new pa", and that the two are now married. Even Davy's bedroom has been changed, and he - and we - are worried about what might be in store for him next.
Mod
"and I could not help wondering, if the world were really as round as my geography book said, how any part of it came to be so flat. But I reflected that Yarmouth might be situated at one of the poles; which would account for it"
when Davy is observing Yarmouth in real life. It's nothing like the leafy part of Suffolk he's been used to, and he thinks it rather damp and nasty. It's a good observation I think, for anyone's first impression of a wide seascape. And of course as you pointed out, it's a realistic idea for a child to have.
I do think these early impressions of Davys thoughts - the "internalising", feel very authentic. And I don't mind the author's voice coming in now and then, to apologise for it ;) It's a nice blend of reminiscing and naivety.
Nisa - I like the way you picked up on the underlying sadness in the first two chapters, and despite the joy in chapter 3, I think it's still there. Both Davy and Little Em'ly have lost their fathers. And the tone of the author, too. We may revisit the past, but it is never quite the same.
And now, we have a sense of forboding too.
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
The Black City (other topics)The Vampyre (other topics)
Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell (other topics)
The Artful Dickens: The Tricks and Ploys of the Great Novelist (other topics)
Jane Eyre (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Jane Austen (other topics)George Sand (other topics)
John Mullan (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
More...
