"The Sudden Appearance of Hope" by Claire North (BR)

[Ryan, Your favourite moderators favourite moderator]

Welcome to the buddy read for Claire North's The Sudden Appearance of Hope.

Except for general first impressions, please use spoiler tags and indicate page/chapter/percentage so everyone can follow the discussion at their own pace.

I want to read all your opinions about this book!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Yay! I have mine ready to go!

[Cheryl]

The idea intrigues. But if it's not well-executed (and we have reason to fear it may not be), I'm not interested. Will follow to see what you-all, my favorite readers, think. :)

[Gabi]

I'm very interested in this novel, but I have absolutely no free space at the moment. I will necropost somewhen.

[Ryan, Your favourite moderators favourite moderator]

I loved The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August and expect to love this too. Just starting this thread has made me want to drop everything and get stuck into the audiobook.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Yeah, I was blown away by Touch, very excited for more!

[Ryan, Your favourite moderators favourite moderator]

So I started this last night and thought I'd listen to an hour or so each day but somehow ended up at chapter 24. Perfection!

[Beige]

Ryan wrote: "So I started this last night and thought I'd listen to an hour or so each day but somehow ended up at chapter 24. Perfection!"

Oh, I love it when that happens!

I'm still keeping my expectations low on this one because I can't comprehend how one author can have so many well reviewed books ;)

[Ryan, Your favourite moderators favourite moderator]

Beige wrote: "Ryan wrote: "So I started this last night and thought I'd listen to an hour or so each day but somehow ended up at chapter 24. Perfection!"

Oh, I love it when that happens!

I'm still keeping my e..."

It's basically why I read!

I'm up to Chapter 38 now and absolutely loving this. So much more going on than the blurb suggests and it's more upbeat than I feared it would be.

I don't have the will power to stop reading and get my current thoughts written for the thread.

[Beige]

I'm up to chapter 10 or 5%. A very good first impression.

I'm glad I didn't read the blurb and went in blind. A very (view spoiler)[ intriguing problem to have. I wonder if the problem would persist online; would Hope be unable to buddy read? Would people forget her avatar and comments?

I really like the style, it's a touch unconventional, with the lists and the slightly jumbled timeline. I assume it will become more conventional as the story unfolds, so I'll savour it for now (hide spoiler)]

[Cheryl]

So, 100 chapters or so in the book?
Honestly, that's a turnoff... seems like the author wants to set such a fast pace that readers won't notice flaws.

[Beige]

Cheryl wrote: "So, 100 chapters or so in the book?
Honestly, that's a turnoff... seems like the author wants to set such a fast pace that readers won't notice flaws."

I think this is just the author's style. The last book I read from her was the same, but I swear, it flows beautifully. She's very talented.

[Ryan, Your favourite moderators favourite moderator]

Beige wrote: "I'm up to chapter 10 or 5%. A very good first impression.

I'm glad I didn't read the blurb and went in blind. A very intriguing problem to have. I wonder if the problem would persist online; woul..."

(Don't read this unless you've read up to Chapter 5)

(view spoiler)[That's the flaw in the whole setup of the book!

Hope isn't forgotten digitally so an online existence was/is still possible for her. Relationships formed online are no less real than offline ones so she'd have those human connections to cling to. She didn't need to go down the path she did but we'd not have this adventure to read. Setting the book in the pre-internet past would have meant Prometheus/Perfection would have had to be jettisoned. :/ (hide spoiler)]

[Ryan, Your favourite moderators favourite moderator]

Chapter 71, (view spoiler)[It was foreshadowed but the betrayal when it came took me by surprise. More in how it happened than anything. Being lulled by the repetitive nature of Hope's new everyday worked well. (hide spoiler)]

[Ryan, Your favourite moderators favourite moderator]

Think I'd quite like to be as forgettable as Hope. The premise gets no less alluring as I joyously plow through the story.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Cheryl, the "chapters" are sort of like journal or blog posts, which works well with the conceit of the story.

Only a few pages in, excited to see where this goes, and enamored with the humanity North brings to her protagonists.

[Ryan, Your favourite moderators favourite moderator]

Finished this. Loved this. Gave it 5 stars.

I'm basking in the joy of reading a book that titillated so many of my philosophical and self determinant interests. The temptation to dive right back in for a re-read hasn't waned.

I don't think what I say below is really spoilery, but I'll tag it nonetheless.

(view spoiler)[I was initially worried that it would dwell in loneliness and depression with a suicide attempt or three. Fortunately, North/Webb preferred for Hope to mostly emote in anger and frustration that was expressed outwardly. Making it the relatively light read that I was hoping for, even though it led to me wondering if it was a copout by the author for not writing a more emotionally complex piece. Definitely a case of me trying (needlessly) to appear balanced. Hope is complex enough. Her petulance and almost childish vindictiveness at times is what precipitates the Perfection story (that was smartly left out of the blurb). Whilst there's a fair bit of leaving bruised bullies baffled as to why they're in that state, Hope's more than just an angry young woman out to wreak consequence free havoc.

A lot of Hope's existence is about the battle of morals versus ethics*. Hopes affliction of being forgotten frees her from societies consequences and forces her to set limits on herself. Eventually. There's nothing subtle about this or the social commentary on inequality and mental health impacts of envying the rich & 'beautiful', which under a lesser author could have felt tacky and infantile. Hegel and his Phenomenology of Spirit could have learnt something from this.

Staying on the topic of subtlety, there's at least 400 instances of the word 'fuck' in this book and yet it never felt vulgar (to me). It's how I fondly imagine the inner monologue of Allison before she filters for her role as a mod of this group.

I haven't quite figured out what to say about the other people in the story and their (unusual) relationships with Hope. There was enough to them to avoid being caricatures which satisfied me, but I suspect others may have a problem with them.

* My understanding of morals being ones personal recognition of right and wrong. Ethics being the generally agreed upon rights and wrongs perceived by a group or society. When these two ideas clash what an individual does shows what they value more. It's a conversation I love having. (hide spoiler)]

[Beige]

I'm at 53% and feel the same as Ryan did. Often I like to comment as I buddy read, but this one has me locked away, under its spell.

[E.D.]

Finished this and Clair North has a new fan. I found the short chapter format fitted very well (view spoiler)[Ryan discusses the story in terms of ethics and self-determination and I have to agree that these are big themes running through the book. However, in my opinion they are not the main themes; rather I think it is about the shallowness of celebrity society and aspiration. Hope herself is given no pretensions, the choice of Derby as her home (a place I know fairly well) is a perfect location for someone who, without her one special characteristic would be considered the perfectly average person with an ordinary life (in comparison to her mother who walked across a desert). Her moral dilemma occurs almost as a side line to her attempt at creating some sort of existence for herself (she doesn't have the luxury of being too introspective or philosophical). Even her actions at the end, in exposing Byron mean that she has chosen the lesser of two evils rather than 'the right side', or has she, considering that she seems to be on the brink of offering Byron an alternative before her suicide. The return to her sister, the only person who remembers her suggests to me that she is still striving for a 'normal' everyday life (whatever that is) rather than anything deeper. (hide spoiler)]

[Kaa]

I wasn't sure if I'd have time for this one, but I'm glad I made the effort. 30% in and this book is hard to put down!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Through Chapter 65

(view spoiler)[
Some of this feels a bit drawn out to me. I'm losing the frenetic pace of the first third. Simultaneously, it's feeling a bit fast and loose with plot points--I don't get some of the conclusions we've come to. And I really, really didn't like the break at the meeting with Byron for the philosophy lesson. That felt really out of left field to me. I don't get why Hope is going along with her? Doubtful that Parker had MRIs and all. I thought the plastic surgery was part of the reason he's memorable now, not necessarily "the treatments." For someone who has shared so much detail with us about her feelings and loneliness, I'd really like some more feedback on why this is so critical to her. We've got a few things like "it's sort of like being remembered" and "I really want the treatments" but no speculation on how treatments could work for this, why Hope would lose privacy just to watch someone forget her over and over etc. (hide spoiler)]

[Beige]

Ryan wrote: "Think I'd quite like to be as forgettable as Hope. The premise gets no less alluring as I joyously plow through the story."

Personally, I'd rather have Harry August's circumstances ;) As I read through the book, Hope's limitations felt heavier and heavier.

[Beige]

E.D. wrote: "Finished this and Clair North has a new fan. I found the short chapter format fitted very well [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ "The return to her sister, the only person who remembers her suggests to me that she is still striving for a 'normal' everyday life (whatever that is) rather than anything deeper."

That's a good point. In fact, it makes me like the ending a little more. I was worried the ending would be a big climatic thing, and while I appreciated the quietness of it, I initially thought it lacked something. I guess my years of reading heroic UF had me expecting Hope to turn into a global vigilante. But the return to her sister is more honest, she grows throughout the novel. She thinks less about her own immediate needs (now, now and now) and starts owning up to the consequences of her actions.

While it certainly focused on the theme of celebrity and perfection in our modern age, I thought it was more of a coming of age story. A late bloomer due to her affliction/powers.

(hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Staying on the topic of subtlety, there's at least 400 instances of the word 'fuck' in this book and yet it never felt vulgar (to me). It's how I fondly imagine the inner monologue of Allison before she filters for her role as a mod of this group.

LOL Ryan! Actually, pretty accurate. I don't think I even noticed them XD Oh, I guess except for the string of them together, which is yeah, exactly right hahahahaha

[Beige]

Allison wrote: "Through Chapter 65 ..."

I'm curious to know if you think your question of motivation is answered by the end

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Finished!

(view spoiler)[

Did she grow? Or were those the treatments that Byron gave her? We're supposed to think Hope overcame the compulsion to kill (??) with a rubber band and the Macarena, but is that all of it?

I really didn't follow that plot, does anyone want to take a stab (sorry, too soon?) at it for me?

So, Hope gets involved with Perfection for vengeance, wants it because she thinks it's how Parker was remembered (how can she remember him if he is absent in her earlier memories? By becoming memorable, he restored her memory, too?) and thinks it's the treatments, not the ton of money on plastic surgery etc. that's materially altered his flesh, or selling out in general, and decides that another thief is the one who can administer the treatments?

But the treatments just make her...lose time? And become a murder machine (except for the rubber band intervention) and so she tries to stop Byron because she doesn't want the people she clearly hates to die? Not because Byron fucked with her head and did not uphold her bargain? (hide spoiler)]