The Bear and the Serpent (Echoes of the Fall #2) by Adrian Tchaikovsky - Starting February 24th 2020

[Dannii]

Maniye, child of Wolf and Tiger, has a new soul and a new shape. But as Champion of the Crown of the World, does she represent an opportunity for the North – or a threat? Travelling as a bodyguard to the Southern prince, with her warband of outcasts, she hopes to finally discover her true place in the world.

But if only it was that simple. Tensions rise, and new allies face up to old enemies as civil war threatens to tear the South apart. Royal twins can't share a throne, so one must be chosen. And whoever rules the southern Sun River Nation will hold the fate of the world in their hands. As the protector of one potential heir, Maniye soon finds herself at the eye of a political storm. Yet all the while, an enemy from the most ancient of times prepares for conquest, and could destroy everything in their path…

[Dannii]

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Date changed. Restarting February 24th 2020. Happy Reading ☺

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[Dannii]

Going to jump into this one, tomorrow :)

[Twila]

I'll be starting maybe tonight!

[Twila]

I just started and things I'm hoping for is for some exploration of the lions. I'm a fan of the Kate Daniels series and the were-lion in there was SO interesting. I'd love to see the lions in this one. I also want some panthers! Love those.

Chapter 2 spoilers (view spoiler)[Dude!!! Maniye and Alladai! I KNEW IT, haha! (hide spoiler)]

[Twila]

This book is already blowing my mind!

Chapter 3 (view spoiler)[Loud Thunder POVs! Yes!
But what shocks me is that we're in the head of a seal right now, oh em gee. This is great. (hide spoiler)]

[Twila]

I'm through 10 chapters (25%) and that's all I can read for tonight.
(view spoiler)[So, the pace is very different from the pace in book 1. A lot less action, more setting things up for something BIG to happen. I'm not sure what happened to the seal's (Sees More) people, but I'm 100% intrigued. It sounds like humans without the special souls. So like, regular humans???? Wow. It was chilling, reading his POV, and seeing what had been done to his people.

There's been a lot less focus on Maniye and tons of new characters and new POVs. I'm struggling a little remembering who is who, since there's lots of new people, but I'll get there.

Loud Thunder is my fave right now. His speech to the other tribes had me cracking up! "I am the strongest! No one can wrestle me!"
LOL! Love him. And for the record, I thought he did a GREAT job getting the others to listen to him. (hide spoiler)]

[Dannii]

I'm just starting :)

[Twila]

I have to start another book today, so I'll be slowing down. Just had a free evening, so I wanted to start a bit.

[Dannii]

I didn't get any read this morning but am actually starting now, lol.

[Dannii]

First quarter - (view spoiler)[It's different to see Maniye so integral to a group, but her new status as a Champion means she reads like just as much of an outcast. She isn't like any of them. I'm only a few chapters in though, so I'm hoping this will alter soon. I adore her character and am eager to see her truly find her place. I can't help but feel her Champion status will have some repercussions.

The seal perspective is going to be interesting to explore, now he is forced inland due to the slaughter near the sea. (hide spoiler)]

[Dannii]

Twila wrote: "This book is already blowing my mind!

Chapter 3 Loud Thunder POVs! Yes!
But what shocks me is that we're in the head of a seal right now, oh em gee. This is great. "

I know! I'm loving all these new animal perspectives that are being explored.

[Dannii]

Twila wrote: "I'm through 10 chapters (25%) and that's all I can read for tonight.
So, the pace is very different from the pace in book 1. A lot less action, more setting things up for something BIG to happen. I..."

Even though this is obviously not an accurate history, it does read like an ancient version of our world and so I'm wondering if (view spoiler)[the slaughter was done by regular humans, who are slowly eating away at the tribes of those who can alter into animal form. It would leave them with no foe greater than themselves. (hide spoiler)]

[Twila]

I was stuck without internet ALL day. It's just started working again, ugh. But yes, Dannii, all the new animal perspectives are awesome. I think the "About the Author" section at the end of the last book said that Tchaikovsky has a degree in zoology, and he's really putting that knowledge to use!! I find the coyotes especially interesting.

The world sort of seems like the Stone Age, doesn't it? But I don't know if it really was regular humans killing everyone. They were riding some type of huge animal in the water and I can't even begin to guess what that's all about.

[Dannii]

That's so cool that he managed to combine his knowledge into this world! You can feel how well researched it is, this one even more so than the first book with the inclusion of so many new characters and animals.

[Dannii]

Second quarter - (view spoiler)[Sees More reached Loud Thunder to spread his story. I was very intrigued about this and I loved seeing the perspectives come together. Soon though too many of them came together, as the clans moved locations to stay close together, infront of some impending danger. I was feeling a little overwhelmed with all the perspectives, clans, and places. I can't keep all of them straight in my head!

I'm still enjoying this one but not as much as the first book. I think it is because book one largely focused on Maniye's story. It had other perspectives but I didn't like these quite as much. This has too many perspectives and sometimes only a page or so is dedicated to one before switching. I like multi-perspective stories but I think I like them to have on chapter each to feel properly divided and to have distinct storylines. I can't keep everyone straight here as their stories merge so much. (hide spoiler)]

[Twila]

Dannii, totally agree! (view spoiler)[All these new perspectives are totally impressive, but maybe it's all just too much? And there's also just so much going on. Book one had its backbone story that was much easier to follow, but with this book, my head is spinning! I feel like maybe the sub-plot about Tecumet and Tecuman should have been cut out to make the story mostly about the Plague People. Less is more sometimes, you know?

Maniye, the very little we're getting from her, seems different as well to me. She's a lot harder. Which makes sense, I guess, but it makes me sad. (hide spoiler)]

[Dannii]

(view spoiler)[The dispute between the twins is interesting and I really enjoyed learning how the snake clan are divided over them. I wish we got to focus on that more than the other plot. Or, as you said, the other plot over this one. I'm getting too little of both to feel really invested. I'm also hoping to more Maniye soon, as well. She does seem different but I'm hoping for a focus where we get to see her bond or fight with the champion inside her more. (hide spoiler)]

[Twila]

The part with the twins I like the most is (view spoiler)[seeing the complicated relationship between Asmander and Venat. I'm not sure how far in you are right now, but I love seeing Asmander with real emotions. I didn't connect with him in the first book, but I'm starting to do so now.

Tecuman seems cute too. A little incompetent in the ways of survival, maybe, but I like him. (hide spoiler)]

[Dannii]

Sorry for my lack of updates. I flew through the second half of this, this afternoon. Whilst I still found it way slower in pace and more disjointed than the first book, I did enjoy it overall. (view spoiler)[Of all the characters I still loved Maniye the most, after growing a bond with her throughout book one. Loud Thunder and the Coyote girl where the two to intrigue me the most, and I found myself wanting to learn more about them.

I agree with what you said about poor Tecuman. He was such a sweetie! Usually weaker characters in a position of power, like him, infuriate me. He was helpless but trying to better himself and I could root for him, throughout. I wished better for him.

The plague people were a constant threat, yet felt super distant. Even when murder happened it seemed only glanced at and the focus remained on the power play between people and clans.

I read a review that said the plague people might be characters from another of his series, which is interesting. This is what she wrote:

"There are several hints that the Plague People may be of the moth or wasp people from Tchaikovsky’s SHADOWS OF THE APT series, so fans of that series may want to check this one out. It seems clear that they’re a more technologically advanced civilization than the shapeshifters on this continent, but their perceived soullessness ― which might be just because they aren’t shapeshifters ― and why they cause near-instantaneous loss of power for shapeshifting people, are questions left to be answered in the upcoming third book, The Hyena and the Hawk" (hide spoiler)]

[Twila]

That's alright, I just finished too! And oh my gosh! (view spoiler)[I've heard so much of that series and of the wasp people. If they're really connected, that's sort of brilliant. So it must be many, many years after the events in this series. Makes me wonder if they eventually win! Hmmm
I'm curious enough to check out that series now, though.

Mainye's still my favourite as well, though others really grew on me, like Asmander, Venat and Shry. I think I really missed Broken Axe, though. And Hesprec was barely in this! But I do like how Kalameshli (hope I spelled that right) and Maniye seeming to be moving in a better direction.

It didn't occur to me until the end that Shry was in love with Asmander, lol. But it's so obvious! She really stuck by him all book long and now … oof. Poor girl.

I didn't like Loud Thunder's insta-love for that woman. I'm relieved he let her go in the end, but he was really toeing the line for me the entire time when it came for her.

Lone Mountin really started to intrigue me in this one. I really want he and his cousin to become friends and start acting like actual family! That would be nice. (hide spoiler)]

Do you want to start book 3 immediately or??

[Dannii]

(view spoiler)[I really liked Kalameshli too, which surprised me. I really like saying his name out loud as well, lol!

I felt I could never guess at anyone's relationships with or feelings for the others. I'm glad this doesn't take a huge focus as well.

Lone Mountain and Loud Thunder were very intriguing, as were their constant focus on 'Mother'. (hide spoiler)]

I can jump in straight away. I'm hoping to finish the next book before the month is out :)

The thread was already set up, here:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Twila]

Kalameshli rolls off the tongue real well, haha.
And ahh, I didn't see that thread, thanks!