The Sword and Laser discussion
Do you see things when you read?
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Yoo Ha Lee has Aphantasia (the condition you describe)
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Dara also started a thread about this:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
I always have images in my head while reading. Not always the same as the author describes. If I have seen the movie version then those images will replace my own made up image.
I can't read Lord of the Rings without seeing Peter Jacksons version in my head.
Tassie Dave wrote: "We had a discussion around this when we read Ninefox Gambit.Yoo Ha Lee has Aphantasia (the condition you describe)
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/......"
And here I thought I was being original, lol. I was sure that I would not find a discussion on this topic nor did I think I could figure out how to find one if I searched. Thanks for the links!
Do I see thing when I read? Constantly!...dang comic books.
Suppose I'll chime in. At best I get a vague visual when reading. If anything it is odd to see a movie / TV show of a book because then the characters and locations are set. Well, either set or so glaringly wrong as to take me out of the show.One thing I do get, though, is a sense of scale, the bigger the better. It's no accident that I have preferred the "Cosmic" characters in Marvel comics - Dr. Strange, Warlock, Chaos and Order, Eternity, Galactus and the like. For SF, I like huge distances and contemplations of infinity. So Ringworld, any of Niven's "Ramship" books, and the incomparable Tau Zero, covering the largest possible distances of both time and space. Weapon Shops of Isher with one character swinging back and forth through time, eventually triggering the Big Bang. Stapledon's Star Maker. 2001, the rare instance where both book and film inspire.
I like to read in quiet, where my brain can settle and perceptions open wide.
For this apparently I sacrifice the ability to visualize text. I'll take it.
Like Tassie Dave I always see something while reading but not always the same as the author's description. While reading Neuvel's Themis Files series I had such a different conception of one character that when he would explicitly describe them it'd confuse me and make me have to mentally reset for a moment.
Matty wrote: "Like Tassie Dave I always see something while reading but not always the same as the author's description. While reading Neuvel's Themis Files series I had such a different conception of one charac..."I tend to see a set of black symbols on a white background ;-)
How interesting! I thought everyone played a small movie in their head while reading. Aphantasia. I'll try to remember that word, though it reminds me of Anastasia enough that I might can use it as a reminder. I would of never known that some people process it differently. I see a movie, though it tends to be abstract and faces are iffy. I also replace the images after seeing a movie and my image doesn't always match up perfectly to the description.
Cutter (The Gemini) wrote: "How interesting! I thought everyone played a small movie in their head while reading. Aphantasia. I'll try to remember that word, though it reminds me of Anastasia enough that I might can use it as..."Definitely check out the other threads linked above. Interesting stuff there.
I don't get a movie as much as I get images and impressions. They don't last long, but are constant as I read, when trying to image the place and people. I have a tendency to allow actors from various movies and tv shows take over the roles, but they will eventually drift from the original to something that better fits the actual characters.
I read on facebook today that some people don't have an inner monologue in their head. They don't have a voice in their mind when they think. I have conversations with that voice! It made me think of this thread, though. I wonder if there is a connection. Is this a left side/right side brain thing? I'm going to have to find someone to ask. I'll copy this to the old thread. https://ryanandrewlangdon.wordpress.c...
Megan, a friend sent me that the other day, I don’t know if it is related but I can say I don’t have an inner monologue either so suspect it might be. I almost thought it was a joke when she sent it, trying to make me think I am even stranger, haha. It would seem exhausting to have the type of monopolies that I have heard. Can’t believe that I have spent almost 50 years and did not know either of these, what else could be going on in my head that is so different than most others. I was diagnosed with dyslexia in 1st grade and wonder if there is a connection there as well.
Megan (The Gemini) wrote: "I read on facebook today that some people don't have an inner monologue in their head. They don't have a voice in their mind when they think. I have conversations with that voice! ..."I converse with my inner voice far more than I do with outer people.
So as I've said before, I do visualize what I read. And I also have an inner monologue, and only the one voice, so not really a conversation, just a stream of dialogue, sometimes interrupted with visuals if I'm thinking of or remembering something visual. Now I'm curious about dreamers. Like I believe most people (although with the way these threads have gone, who knows), I typically don't remember my dreams, unless I'm having one as I wake up. That's where it gets interesting, if I'm slowly waking up, my mind seems to have some control of what I'm doing in the dream, not necessarily what else is happening (although sometimes), but decisions I make or things I do or say. I guess this is lucid dreaming? This usually doesn't last too long before I fully wake up. I still typically don't remember what happens in these dreams, but I know that I've had them. This can happen both in the middle of the night, or just before I'm waking up for good.
So is this more or less how others dream? And I wonder how it relates to those who visualize what the read, and have an inner dialogue, or a rich visual imagination? Or maybe there is no correlation at all.
John (Nevets) wrote: "So is this more or less how others dream?"More or less the same for me.
However, the other day I woke up and the solution to the project I was working on was sitting there in my brain. I’ve been working on this show for weeks (https://www.instagram.com/p/B7J--koBj...) and couldn’t crack it. But my subconscious mind figured it out. I got back in the editing suite that day and it worked perfectly.
Is that a dream? I don’t know. I recall visualizing the entire thing, but who knows if it played out in real time.
Did you read Echopraxia? It gets pretty deeply into the concept of the conscious vs. unconscious mind. Has a very similar example of solutions rising from the unconscious.
John (Taloni) wrote: "Did you read Echopraxia? It gets pretty deeply into the concept of the conscious vs. unconscious mind. Has a very similar example of solutions rising from the unconscious."I haven’t. Just articles about dreams and REM sleep.
As someone who neither visualize things or have an internal dialog, I very rarely remember any of my dreams maybe for a year. I can not remember ever having control of a dream. I am sure that I have come up with solutions in my sleep but have no idea when that has happened.
Occasionally I can control my dreams. Flying through a city was quite exhilarating the one time I did it.
Yes! I once controlled a flying dream because it was so enjoyable. Sometimes if I wake from a dream that I liked before I wanted to, I go back to sleep and force the dream again. Only if I go right back to sleep though.
So coincidentally enough waking up this morning I had what I was describing. And realized it was not what experts call "lucid". It is more like as the dream is ending and as I'm waking I transition to a day dream with my eyes closed. My other senses are in the real world (I feel the bed, hear the fan running in the background, taste my dry mouth). But I just sort of keep the visual and sense of audio dream going in my imagination, with a bit more control of myself, but with out sensing physical things almost more like a POV camera shot. It went of for a few minutes, and then I was too awake to really concentrate on it anymore so I rolled over and opened my eyes. In doing just a brief google search after I posted my questions. I found that what Trike describes is common, and part of what people think dreaming is for. Going over the events of the day, committing them to memory, and then letting the sub conscious work on problems you've been stewing on.
Damn our minds are wonderfully crazy and diverse things. It shouldn't be, but each time I hear someone else's works slightly different then mine, I'm shocked. Hopefully I can think of that each time I'm trying to see someone else's point of view.
Carl Jung suggested asking a question before going to sleep in order to get your unconscious to work on it. The question was to be posed to the "two million year old man," the representation of the collective unconscious.I went looking for a good link to this and couldn't find one. Jung is great, but his works are dense. I can highly recommend "Memories, Dreams, Reflections" as a readable entry point to his work. The Portable Jung is also good, but not particularly portable - it is pretty long. Much of the rest is written in a clinical format as he was writing psychology as a science. The works are revelatory, but take effort. They are not casual reading.
I'll close with the best of the quotes I found in this particular search: "Together the patient and I address ourselves to the two million-year-old man that is in all of us. In the last analysis, most of our difficulties come from losing contact with our instincts, with the age-old unforgotten wisdom stored up in us. And where do we make contact with this old man in us? In our dreams.
-C. G. Jung, Psychological Reflections
John (Nevets) wrote: "So is this more or less how others dream?"Pretty much how dreaming works for me. Occasionally, I remember that last bit of a dream.
I haven't spent the effort needed to develop full lucid dreaming.
I remember some dreams after waking up but they fade quickly unless I make an effort to remember them. Normally dreams just play out without conscious involvement but occasionally something happens to trigger me to actively take control. Usually the dream ends right after the issue is resolved.
I've said in other threads like this that I really struggle to visualise, but I realised after some chat on the Discord about cyberpunk that my struggle to visualise might be the reason I have so much trouble reading science fiction. I am fine with fantasy, but I definitely prefer to consume science fiction as visual media.
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I have lived my whole life with the words on the page just being words and envy those who actually see something. Though I think it has helped me in one regard when I watch a movie based on a book I have read I have no issue thinking of them as two different stories based on a similar premise. Because of this, I don’t have the “The book was better than the movie” feeling.
One final thought, my wife pointed out that my favorite movie, The Princess Bride, is really just what the grandson is seeing as the grandfather reads, blow my mind!