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HF: Monty Python Meets Charles Dickens?
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Buzz wrote: "I haven't previously read any Pratchett and I'm loving this book. I enjoy the snarky British humor (or shall I say humour...) and I can't help but feel that it is a Monty Python meets Charles Dicke..."The style of humour is very old. Definitely influenced by P.G. Wodehouse with his Wooster and Jeeves books (see https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098833/ for a great TV version with Fry and Laurie).
On radio the Hancock Half hour (that's very nearly an armful, https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00r...) and Spike Milligan and the Goon Show (Eccles).
(the University scenes are almost uncannily accurate)
Beyond being British, I don't see any commonalities between Pratchett and Milligan, Adams or the Pythons. The latter all practiced a highly anarchic form of comedy that said, "Society is f-ed, and we need to rip it up and start again."Pratchett's writing, by contrast, is comfortably Whiggish -- things could use some improvement, certainly, but we can work inside the system to accomplish that, and the biggest threat society faces is from people who want to break everything for their own ends.
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Tassie Dave, S&L Historian
(last edited Dec 10, 2019 06:45PM)
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Spike Milligan was one of the greatest pioneers and exponents of that style.
Pratchett's work is a similar style. So much so, that Monty Python members have been involved in adaptations of his work.
Terry Jones was one of the writers on "The Watch" when they first tried to get it made for TV. He has dropped out now.
Terry Gilliam was going to make a movie version of "Good Omens" at one time. They even had a script ready.
Eric Idle was the voice of Rincewind in the video game "Discworld"
I was definitely getting Python-esque vibes, in that they take something witty and clever and push the joke so far it's no longer amusing; I was feeling the same about Hogfather the whole way through.
Sean wrote: "Pratchett's writing, by contrast, is comfortably Whiggish -- things could use some improvement, certainly, but we can work inside the system to accomplish that, and the biggest threat society faces is from people who want to break everything for their own ends."Interesting, that's definitely the exact opposite of how I have read the Discworld novels. Personally, I would even say the condemnation of authority and dogma as inherently silly is one of the main pillars of Pratchett's writing (besides the importance of stories for the individual and society as a whole).
That is definitely a good description of his writing. And the complaint I hear regarding both of them is that you have to embraced the inside jokes.
Melanie wrote: "That is definitely a good description of his writing. And the complaint I hear regarding both of them is that you have to embraced the inside jokes."Not really, I went for years missing his pun on the name of Vetinari.
(view spoiler)
The inside jokes just add an extra layer, for example the comment about young Magicians (another book) building something under the squash courts is not all that important if you don't get it but fun if /you do. Another will come along soon.
There are less of these the further you get into the series.
Tassie Dave wrote: "The commonality would be the absurdist style of comedy that Monty Python and The Goon Show had."I don't see anything absurdist about Pratchett. He doesn't do non-sequitur gags, characters don't barge through the fourth wall,
and the Discworld has a logic to it that makes sense to the people who live there. Sam Vines is never going to barge in and tell everyone to break things up because the scene's gotten too silly.
Jan wrote: "Interesting, that's definitely the exact opposite of how I have read the Discworld novels. Personally, I would even say the condemnation of authority and dogma as inherently silly is one of the main pillars "
A quarter of the series is about cops who are actually quite nice people who care about the community and try to make the world a better place. The other subseries feature characters who, if not in positions of authority, speak with authoritative voices about what's right and wrong, as does the narrator.
Compare that to H2G2, where everyone is wrong about everything pretty much all of the time, even voices of authority like the Guide.
Sean wrote: A quarter of the series is about cops who are actually quite nice people who care about the community and try to make the world a better place. The other subseries feature characters who, if not in positions of authority, speak with authoritative voices about what's right and wrong, as does the narrator.
Most of these characters have a very cynical relationship with their own authority (I remember Vimes saying he doesn't trust policemen because he is one himself) and people in general. They very much see the shortcomings of themselves and society and are very much skeptical towards the status quo and humanities ability to improve while clearly appreciating the struggle of these foolish "story-telling apes".
Pratchett can absolutely be absurd. A Librarian who is also an orangutan. The living rock of the trolls, clay men who walk around with paper strips for brains. A guild devoted to the art of clowning but arent funny at all, yet produce battle clowning leading a character to shout "Look out hes got a Daisy!"Its the absurdity of the mundane. Characters who live in this world are fine with it, but characters who newly enter the stories will usually comment on the oddity of it all. Its Pratchett poking fun on 1) How we can not accept Odd people who are just trying to get along with there lives, and 2) can accept the mundane people who are doing terrible things just because, well, its always been done.
Thinking back to an S&L episode around Pratchett's death. It mentioned his barely contained rage. Anger at the absurd around us, and making fun of it to highlight it.
Also I love the watch books, Sam Vimes seems to be the Hero Pratchett most wanted to be.
I'm going to side with Penguin Drum Sean on this one. Just because absurd things happen doesn't mean that the work is absurdist. It's more about the underlying attitude or opinion, whether chaos or order is the presumed default that the universe sifts down to, or what the story leans towards in the macro sense. "Order" does not have to be the order of authority, it can simply be serial comedy's return to the status quo after crazy things happen.
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Monty Python did the occasional straight comedy, as did Spike Milligan.
Wacky absurd humour It is a style of comedy that the English does better than the rest of the world.
Like, Monty Python, The Goon Show, The League of Gentlemen and The Mighty Boosh
Yup what Tassie Dave said.I kinda want to go dig in old interviews of Pratchett's to see what he was thinking from book to book. Some of his novels can be quite silly (Last Continent comes to mind). Others revolve around serious subjects that have light humor in it to keep it moving (Jingo).
Also thinking back on it there are fourth wall breaks. Slifght ones likke in Wyrd sisters where the Shakespeare-esque Dwarf suddenly starts writing A Marx Brothers skit. And Overt ones like Snuff where Vimes thought all Authors wore bathrobes and Bunny slippers around the house.*
*Which is absolutely true. (This had me rolling.)
Yes! This is actually my favorite type of humor to read and watch. And this connection makes sense when you listed all my favorites as to why I would also love Pratchett.
Are there any other readers new to Pratchett getting a similar vibe?