A new group for next year nominees

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

I'm thinking about starting another group, which will try to read and discuss red hot SFF in order to select nominees for Hugo (and other awards). The main difference with our group:
- SFF which hasn't been officially shortlisted (see below)
- all 'reading' works (novel, novella, novelette, short story, comics) to read

The initial idea is to start with Locus long list in January (this year longlist to understand hat it is about - https://locusmag.com/2019/02/2018-loc... ). Read until Hugo nomination deadline (Mar 15th? I guess). By that time there will be Nebula nominees to read and also minor awards like PKD. And in the second half of the year read 2020 works.

What I want to know is how many of you are interested in joining?

[Silvana]

Oleksandr wrote: "I'm thinking about starting another group, which will try to read and discuss red hot SFF in order to select nominees for Hugo (and other awards). The main difference with our group:
- SFF which ha..."

I am interested but I'd like to know why it has to be a new group.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Silvana wrote: "I am interested but I'd like to know why it has to be a new group."

Because this group [formally] reads only nominated novels. Of course we can buddy-read anything but bearing in mind that many members joined specifically to read nominees and winner, and mainly novels, I thought it is better to create a filial group not to muddle this one, esp. if people who just like fresh SFF but don't care about awards will join

[Gabi]

In theory this sounds interesting, but I have no idea If I can keep pace.

[Silvana]

Noted, thanks!

[Antti]

I'd probably join the group, but most likely couldn't participate all that much - I only read half a dozen or so new SF/F works every year.

[Jemppu]

I joined this group, and I don't care about awards <:D Too specialist groups feel they'd run a risk of becoming too niche to gain much popularity. Which of course can be desirable as well, but I don't think I personally would join a group of such strict/limited purpose; it's easier to follow one broader group, than multiple small ones. Imho.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Last year we read them in this group. And then we nominated as a group. We all just read which ones we thought would be nominees. I thought that was fun. And I also note I read about 19 books and no one else read nearly as many. But I am not sure I will do as much of it this year as I will be reading many more series with other groups.

What would be the difference in the new group? Would we actually have a membership, as Bryan did last year, for which we would tally and input our votes? Would we just pick the ones we thought? I was pretty successful in the picking last year.

I am thinking we could just do it here, again. And actually, a new group like this . . . wouldn't it be better if it had started, like, 6 mos ago?

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kateblue wrote: "What would be the difference in the new group? "

That we could read and discuss books, which aren't yet nominated and possibly won't be. This year in this group we discussed works to nominate, but in a thread per category and it was more "I've read this and (dis-)liked it - this is different from how we (and other groups) do monthly reads. In short I want more discussion per work

Kateblue wrote: "Would we actually have a membership, as Bryan did last year, for which we would tally and input our votes? "

I will purchase a membership with votes process like this year (I fill in for what members of the group voted). If anyone wants, they can join as WorldCon members - two memberships or more will increase our chances to send something to nominee level (not much, most nominees had 100+ votes, so 1-2 in many cases aren't that critical)

Kateblue wrote: "Would we just pick the ones we thought?"

If you mean after sending our list will we try to decide which work will win in each category then yes

[Kalin]

I like the idea, I'd probably want to do some of the 2019 reading ahead of time so not everything is so crunched next spring/summer, since I plan to vote again. I definitely won't read enough 2019 releases to feel super comfortable nominating.

I agree with Kate & some others that this group seems the best place for it, rather than starting a new group. More broadly, I think it make sense to aggregate Hugo&Nebula related reading projects via goodreads in this group, even if it was originally started just for previous nominees, and specifically for novels. It just seems more beneficial to have goodreads members interested in these awards to congregate here rather than split between multiple groups.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Kalin--This group is for both winners and nominees, FYI. When I first joined I thought it was only for winners, too!

Z, if you want to make a new group to do this, I will join. But I'd rather do it here. I am just not as sure I will be able to spend as much time on it this year. In 2019, that was pretty much all I read Jan, Feb and Mar, possible nominees.

If you do make another group, will you please post the URL for those nebula spreadsheets here as you did last year? The one from the SFWA, I guess? Those were great.

My best source of possibles was the 2019 equivalent of this list here: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...

Also, here's the novella one for you novella seekers out there: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...

I read the novels with the most votes and it was a pretty good prediction of what got nominated.

[Kalin]

The official Hugo 2020 eligibility spreadsheet is pretty useful for looking at potential nominees in all fields.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

OK, Kalin, but it seems to not work for me. There's nothing there. EVen when I click on this links, there's nothing there. And it remembers me and knows it's me so I know I must have been here for 2019 nominees . . . I'm confused now. Computers hate me. :-(

[Cordelia]

I think that it is a nice idea. Certainly the way I like to read and evaluate books. I looked at the locus list - certainly some surprises - Richard Power's " The Overstory" and the Marlin James book. Nice to see more literary books being considered.

[Cordelia]

Kalin wrote: "The official Hugo 2020 eligibility spreadsheet is pretty useful for looking at potential nominees in all fields."

It doesn't work for me either. But I would be interested to know why we cant "treat others like meat popsicles"

Well. I found that if I hang around I can see the lists of books. AND they certainly look interesting.

[Kalin]

That's strange, I thought that spreadsheet was posted here in the group somewhere not that long ago... Here's the URL, maybe this link will work:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

The link works, so did the last one. But there's a problem. It seems to be just an empty spreadsheet.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Now that I am thinking about it, Z, don't you think you have a readymade, captive audience in this group? Maybe that will help more than starting a new group and having to attract people?

Or not.

And Cordelia . . . what's with the meat popsicles thing?

[Allan]

I'd probably be like Antti - I would join but not participate that much as my interest primarily lies with nominated novels. I read a few of the nominees for 2019 and will likely do the same for 2020 regardless of group.

[Cordelia]

Kateblue wrote: "Now that I am thinking about it, Z, don't you think you have a readymade, captive audience in this group? Maybe that will help more than starting a new group and having to attract people?

Or not...."

When I opened the link to the spreadsheet it was one of the rules when using it:" Not to treat others like meat popsicles" I hate to imagine what they might be.

Also, I agree with you Kate. It is very possible to add this new aspect of possible nominees and favourites, and even possibly add ranking systems into the existing group. It can all just exist together and makes the group more interesting, adding a new dimension.

[Silvana]

Meat popsicle: https://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...

[Cordelia]

Silvana wrote: "Meat popsicle: https://www.urbandictionary.com/defin..."

Ha Ha. Very funny. You learn something new every day.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kateblue wrote: "Now that I am thinking about it, Z, don't you think you have a readymade, captive audience in this group? Maybe that will help more than starting a new group and having to attract people?"

Yes, I was hoping that quite a few members of the group will join the new one.

Pros and cons of using this group, pros first:

- a bit less work (starting and joining are one click actions, what ready eats time is keeping the group, which is close to keeping threads/topics in this one)
- a great collection of members (I love you all folks!) - once again if many join the new group it is not that important

Cons:
- I think that monthly reads create a bit more push than buddy reads for discussion, so in the new group I expect more discussion per book
- there can be people wanting to read more new things and less interested in Awards (see Jemppu's msg #7 above), so 'new blood can be added to discussions
- the original goal of the group was to read H/N nominees, changing the goal may alienate some
- if we'll have both new releases and old H/N nominees in monthly reads we either slow down in reading H/N nominees or increase monthly reading load (which Antti said maybe a little too much)

[Kalin]

Oleksandr wrote: "- the original goal of the group was to read H/N nominees, changing the goal may alienate some"

I wouldn't see it as changing the goal so much as expanding it, or having it evolve. My interpretation of group's fundamental organizing principle is the focus on H/N, and from there everyone is already choosing which aspects of this group they participate in: winners only, nominees only, novels only, monthly reads only, new reads only (as opposed to re-reads with the group). The title says "Best Novel" but there has been some interest in including shorter fiction as well -- I'm part of that camp. Shorter fiction would expand the goal beyond novel, but still keep the fundamental H/N focus. Including a parallel track for potential upcoming nominees in order to be part of the process of selecting those nominees -- expands the goal but keeps the fundamental H/N focus. And so on.

Oleksandr wrote: "- if we'll have both new releases and old H/N nominees in monthly reads we either slow down in reading H/N nominees or increase monthly reading load (which Antti said maybe a little too much)"

These reads wouldn't have to be part of the main monthly read though. The way I see it, there could be parallel tracks that group members opt into participating in, as they already do informally, but here with a bit more structure. Similar to how there are core monthly reads and then challenges, and then birthday challenges, there could be parallel "2019 release & likely awards contender" read that's optional and selected by vote by those who want to be part of it.

[Bryan, Village Idiot]

I agree with Kalin, I'm not against expanding the "formal" reads for this group.

I guess it would be more of what you have in mind, Z. If you are wanting to do a similar structure as this group, in that you vote and read 2 books or so a month, then I can see how you would be worried about it slowing both goals down.

Of course, on the flip side, we have over 500 members here already. We could made it a sub-section of the group. Change the name of the group. Have votes and nominations like we are doing now, but we change the time of the month we do the votes.

For example, we could do the nominations & voting we are doing now from the 1st to the 15th, then do the new nomination & votes from the 15th to the end of the month.

Or something like that. What do you think?

[Allan]

I agree. Why not do it here, where you have an existing membership. I don't do much with non-novels but anyone could just choose to participate in the aspects they choose.

[Kalin]

Z, what did you end up deciding about this?

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

I hope Z decided to keep it here because I think it adds variety and interest to this group. Z?

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kalin wrote: "Z, what did you end up deciding about this?"

I haven't decided yet. Like many people stated, they prefer to keep it here. At the same time I still assume that there are people who just like fresh SFF, so it means new people to discuss stuff with.

And of course my laziness keeps me here as well :)

If I start a new group I will inform

[Kalin]

Whatever you end up deciding, I'll participate. I've already put a hold through Libby/Overdrive on a bunch of 2019 books that I'm hoping to get to in the next few months:

The Survival of Molly Southbourne
The Quantum Garden
The Bird King
The Raven Tower
The Deep
This Is How You Lose the Time War
Middlegame
The Ten Thousand Doors of January
Gods of Jade and Shadow
Gideon the Ninth

[Gabi]

I'm with Kalin: I will participate whichever form you decide on, Oleksandr.

[Sarah]

Be sure to link the group once you've made it :)

You can always try it out for a year and see whether it works.

Perhaps it could be a 'sister group' and the groups could work together and help to promote each other, while still being distinctly different.

[Cordelia]

I would join in,whichever way you go

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Cordelia wrote: "I would join in,whichever way you go"

I will make a final decision whether to start another group in a week, a bit busy right now. I have to stress that I see discussions as the main feature of GR, so I actually will post links to other groups, which read the relevant books, so everyone may hop on discussions. Therefore, right now in reply to Kalin's list I may supply the following links:

The Deep - BR https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Middlegame -Monthly read for Dec https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...

Gods of Jade and Shadow - Monthly read for Nov https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Hi! I won over my laziness (temporary ofc) and created the group. Everyone is welcome

https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...

[Kirsten]

Great idea! I was away from the SF world for a while and I have been diving back into the pool and need to be pointed in different directions from time to time.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kirsten #endgunviolence wrote: "Great idea! I was away from the SF world for a while and I have been diving back into the pool and need to be pointed in different directions from time to time."

Join in while it's free! :)

[Gabi]

I'm in - have to use the free trial months ;D.

[Allan]

I joined the group as well. Again, we'll have to see how much I get into the reads since my main focus remains the full H&N nominees list.