Japanese Literature discussion
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I didn't love Snow Country and Kawabata has many better books. Those that praise it seem to feel that it's purely Japanese in its ability to create atmosphere and understanding while never speaking directly about what is happening.
Josh wrote: "I didn't love Snow Country and Kawabata has many better books. Those that praise it seem to feel that it's purely Japanese in its ability to create atmosphere and understanding while never speaking..."I am one reader who enjoyed it greatly. I liked his writing style immensely, but also the flow and organization of it was highly effective.
I'm reading Revenge by Yōko Ogawa. I read Hotel Iris earlier this year and found the combination of darkness and beauty very compelling, so I am excited to explore more of Ogawa's works. Until this year, I very rarely read short stories but have read several collections in 2017 and am beginning to have a much greater appreciation of the shorter format.
Viv wrote: "I'm reading Revenge by Yōko Ogawa. I read Hotel Iris earlier this year and found the combination of darkness and beauty very compelling, so I am excite..."Revenge is one of my favorite books and I love Yoko Ogawa.
I've been working my way through Palm-of-the-Hand Stories by Yasunari Kawabata. I like it, but I find it difficult, because everything is really subtle, so sometimes stories take me multiple reads. At least they're really short.
I'm struggling to get through Jirō Osaragi's "The Journey" (annoying characters!) as well as Frozen Dreams: A Japanese Adventure Novel by Tatematsu (which is translated poorly and is going nowhere). I have read almost nothing but Japanese literature for the past 4 years and I feel like I'm running out of books. I suppose I could reread old favorites, but it seems like a waste of time. Doesn't someone maintain a list of upcoming Japanese releases somewhere in this group? I know I've seen it -- that's how I found out about Kobo Abe's newly translated Beasts Head for Home: A Novel, which I highly anticipated and thoroughly loved.
@Stephen, here's the link, but it's not kept up. Look at Christian's message #3 for some online resources you might access.https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Josh wrote: "I didn't love Snow Country and Kawabata has many better books. Those that praise it seem to feel that it's purely Japanese in its ability to create atmosphere and understanding while never speaking..."Thanks, Josh. I feel somewhat vindicated. Still, I'd like to give Kawabata's stuff another go. If you have any recommendations, please let me know.
Also, has anyone read Endo Shusaku's When I Whistle? It was recommended by a friend, but the blurb didn't really grab me at first read.
J wrote: "Josh wrote: "I didn't love Snow Country and Kawabata has many better books. Those that praise it seem to feel that it's purely Japanese in its ability to create atmosphere and understanding while n..."When I Whistle is essential Endo, along with The Sea and Poison, The Girl I Left Behind, and most importantly, Deep River.
And I know you did not ask me, but as far as Kawabata goes, his best are Beauty and Sadness, The Master of Go, and The Lake. At least in my opinion.
I also didn't love Snow Country and therefore have not gone back to reading Kawabata again since (that's been many years now). I know Kazuo Ishiguro has been claimed as English, but does anyone plan to read his books after the Nobel win? :) I've read 3 of his novels, but they're all the "English ones". I plan to read A Pale View of Hills next, which is one of his "Japanese book".
Dioni (Bookie Mee) wrote: "I also didn't love Snow Country and therefore have not gone back to reading Kawabata again since (that's been many years now). I know Kazuo Ishiguro has been claimed as English, but does anyone p..."
I would be up for reading A Pale View, but haven't prioritized reading it until you described it as you did.
Dioni (Bookie Mee) wrote: "I know Kazuo Ishiguro has been claimed as English, but does anyone plan to read his books..."I love his books and only have two left to read When We Were Orphans and The Unconsoled. Both A Pale View of Hills and An Artist of the Floating World, his most overtly Japanese writing are really good reads.
The question of whether Ishiguro is more English or Japanese is a difficult one, and I haven't read anything where the author himself discusses it. He left Japan when he was six, before he really had a grasp on Japanese culture. Yet it must have taken him considerable time to assimilate to life in England before he considered himself English.I've read A Pale View of Hills and An Artist of the Floating World (and Never Let Me Go, for what it's worth). I don't shelve them under Japanese literature based on strict criteria of "Japanese literature is that which was written originally in Japanese with a target audience of Japanese readers." It's intended to be precise but not judgmental. I read plenty of books on Japan that don't meet these criteria, mostly non-fiction but some fiction as well.
I get more fightback on this from anime and manga fans, where I use the same criteria (with a couple of word differences, of course). People don't like to be told they can't write manga if they're not Japanese.
Japan itself has certainly chosen to label him as an English Writer... they printed his name using the foreign alphabet in all the newspapers...
Josh wrote: "Japan itself has certainly chosen to label him as an English Writer... they printed his name using the foreign alphabet in all the newspapers..."That's one way to make their view clear :)
Here's a quote from an interview in The Telegraph:
“I’ve always had a problem with setting, all through my career,” he says. “Because at the beginning I wanted to write books set in Japan, and I had personal reasons for doing that – a big emotional need to make up my own Japan, and so on.” (Ishiguro left Japan when he was five, but grew up in Britain with samurai stories and other tales told by his mother. She once read him the whole of Ivanhoe in Japanese translation.) "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/auth...
It's typical of quotes i've read in the past and can't locate efficiently. He doesn't try to characterize himself as anything other than a British writer whose mother is Japanese.
Bill wrote: "The question of whether Ishiguro is more English or Japanese is a difficult one, and I haven't read anything where the author himself discusses it. He left Japan when he was six, before he really h..."The Nobel committee called him an English writer in their announcement so I go with that. I agree with them though. The 3 books I read felt very English. In the order from my highest rating:
The Remains of the Day
Never Let Me Go
When We Were Orphans
I have yet to read his Japanese theme novels (only two? A Pale View of Hills and An Artist of the Floating World). Also interested in The Buried Giant as the Nobel committee praised it highly and seems to be the book that tipped him over the edge to win it.
On the other hand, Ruth Ozeki and Gail Tsukiyama have been mentioned in this group before, and I wouldn't think Kazuo Ishiguro any less Japanese than them. Though my criteria for Japanese literature is also pretty strict, closer to yours Bill.
Carol wrote: "Josh wrote: "He doesn't try to characterize himself as anything other than a British writer whose mother is Japanese. "Just a little note, both his parents are Japanese.
I spoke to a lot of my students and coworkers to get a feel of their opinion on why his name was written as if it was a Japanese name. For them it was simple, he changed his citizenship, and in Japan you cannot be consider a dual citizen, so he is English.
The reason it was an interesting question for me, is that, a Canadian, in many senses, will always be a Canadian. Michael J Foxx is a Canadian actor (who hasn't lived there for over 30 years and has an American passport).
Also, I am sensitive to the Japanese foreign alphabet, refusing to allow my children to have names using it. It is often used on TV to subtitle people who speak Japanese with an accent, and I've always seen it as often used insultingly. (Though not usually). So, I felt like not using Ishiguro's kanji was like abandoning him, or turning their back on him. I'd hoped that he would be celebrated here a bit more, with 2 Japanese parents, born here, he's a Japanese-English Nobel Prize winner!!
Josh wrote: "I spoke to a lot of my students and coworkers to get a feel of their opinion on why his name was written as if it was a Japanese name. For them it was simple, he changed his citizenship, and in J..."
Do you mean written as if it was a non-Japanese name? You mean in katakana I assume? Interesting.
Citizenship and one's origin is always up for debate I think. More so as we continue to live in a more globalized world. My own is quite complicated, and I hate people asking me where I'm from, because I can't give them a single word answer.
But reading his books, I'd say his themes are quite English. Especially the Remains of the Day, which is most of the time considered as his masterpiece (also a Booker winner). So for me his origin becomes secondary, to what he is now.
Dioni (Bookie Mee) wrote: "Carol wrote: "Josh wrote: "He doesn't try to characterize himself as anything other than a British writer whose mother is Japanese. "Just a little note, both his parents are Japanese."
Yes, noted. I apologize for the imprecision.
Stephen wrote: "When I Whistle is essential Endo, along with The Sea and Poison, The Girl I Left Behind, and most importantly, Deep River.And I know you did not ask me, but as far as Kawabata goes, his best are Beauty and Sadness, The Master of Go, and The Lake. At least in my opinion."
Thanks very much, Stephen. I will take note of those recommendations, including the ones for Kawabata. I remember reading Beauty and Sadness years back and rather liked it, so I'll keep a lookout for the others you mentioned.
As for Ishiguro, I've read all of his novels except The Unconsoled - didn't get past the first couple of chapters, but will probably make a go of it again. My favourite is A Pale View of Hills, which blew me away when I first read it, and then The Remains of the Day. I haven't quite felt the zing of his first three novels in his later works, but have still enjoyed them. While Ishiguro is English by nationality, his parents are Japanese and I'm sure they would have imparted what they could of Japanese culture to him even though the family was living abroad. And I still feel there's a hint of Japanese-ness in his works, but I can't quite describe this vibe, it's just rather subtle.
I read Hotel Iris and Audition in the last twenty hours. Now I need to find some lightweight American novel as a palate cleanser.
Carol wrote: "So I proceeded to read Snakes and Earrings by Hitomi Kanehara. I was disappointed."I was also extremely disappointed by Snakes and Earrings, Carol. I expected so much more from an Akutagawa winning novel.
Akylina wrote: "Carol wrote: "So I proceeded to read Snakes and Earrings by Hitomi Kanehara. I was disappointed."I was also extremely disappointed by Snakes and Earrings, Carol. I e..."
Truth.
It's been years since I read Snakes and Earrings, but I remember being disappointed by it too. I also didn't hear good things about her second translated book Autofiction.
Dioni (Bookie Mee) wrote: "It's been years since I read Snakes and Earrings, but I remember being disappointed by it too. I also didn't hear good things about her second translated book Autofiction."Good to know. So many books, so little time etc.
I've read "Autofiction" by Kanehara a couple of months ago and found it actually interesting. It depends on your preferences as a reader and until you don't read the book, there is no chance telling whether you'll like it or not :-) didn't enjoy "Snakes and Earings" thou.
Miriam wrote: "I've read "Autofiction" by Kanehara a couple of months ago and found it actually interesting. It depends on your preferences as a reader and until you don't read the book, there is no chance tellin..."Yeah, I really loved "Autofiction", but I haven't read Snakes and Earrings (despite what the thread is saying, I intend to). So I myself can't really tell someone if they like one they'll like the other. I'd at least say give "Autofiction" a shot on the basis because I've never read another book like it. I assume "Snakes and Earrings" is nothing like it anyway.
Reading 69 by the other Murakami. Not sure yet where it's going buy I know its going to be somewhere surprising and shocking in equal measure.
I finished Palm-of-the-Hand Stories. I felt like most of it went over my head but it was an interesting read. I plan to try one of Kawabata's novels (any recommendations?) to see if I like that any better. I'm kinda bad with subtlety. I don't need to be beat over the head, but it needs to strike a balance you know?
I plan to try one of Kawabata's novels (any recommendations?) to see if I like that any..."Maybe try Beauty and Sadness? I thought it was pretty decent.
I'm currently reading The Silent Dead by Honda Tetsuya. I wish the translation had kept the original title, which was Strawberry Night.
For Kawabata I'd recommend The Master of Go.
I second "Beauty and Sadness" and "The Master of Go" and also suggest "Thousand Cranes." Oh, and "The Lake."
Thanks so much! My library has all of them, so unless it pulls another Makioka sisters and mysteriously gets rid of them, I shouldn't need to buy them. I got a stack of books right now (plan other than homework for Thanksgiving break? Relaxation.) so I plan on going through as many of those as I can before I get anymore. I'm enjoying my current book, but it was a poor choice, because all I can think about is how much I want to finish the Neapolitan Novels. Did not like Elena Ferrante when I started reading her, but I think if I had just started with the Neapolitan Novels like I was supposed to, that would have been a different matter.
Rhea wrote: "Thanks so much! My library has all of them, so unless it pulls another Makioka sisters and mysteriously gets rid of them, I shouldn't need to buy them. I got a stack of books right now (plan other ..."A bit off topic here lol, but I read My Brilliant Friend and did not like it =/. I want to try her other book that is not Neapolitan novels and see whether it suits me more. Seems like it's the other way around for you?
Finished Makioka Sisters, decided to read Stories of Osaka Life this week. It's 4 short stories by Sakunosuke Oda, and 1:2 way in, it's great. Hard to find, I think, but pure Osaka. Not a famous writer, but one worth reading if you can find a copy!!Also, I found out today that The Sound Of Waves is about Mie, which I have visited many times, and read much about, and is next months groups read... happy!!
Dioni (Bookie Mee) wrote: A bit off topic here lol, but I read My Brilliant Friend and did not like it =/. I want to try her other book that is not Neapolitan novels and see whether it suits me more. Seems like it's the other way around for you? Yeah, maybe. I mean, I have a friend who we talked Haruki Murakami (the gateway drug?) a bit. I liked Wind-up Bird Chronicle, disliked Kafka on the Shore. Other way around for her. I like to keep that in mind in case I were to ever recommend Murakami to someone, but it feels weird saying "if you don't like the first book I recommended, try this one he also wrote instead". It sort of feels like you get one chance with a recommendation. I found The Days of Abandonment, my first shot at Ferrante, very different in tone, but I did read it more than a year ago, so it's possible my perspective just shifted?
I am reading/devouring The Story of the Lost Child right now. I expect to finish it today/tonight.
Rhea wrote: "Dioni (Bookie Mee) wrote: A bit off topic here lol, but I read My Brilliant Friend and did not like it =/. I want to try her other book that is not Neapolitan novels and see whether it suits me mor..."Hah, I agree with you on Murakami at least. I loved the Wind-up Bird and disliked Kafka on the Shore ;)
I've yet to find a Murakami (either Haruki of Ryu) book I haven't enjoyed.
Currently reading Shokuzai (Penance) by Minato Kanae. It's off to a decent start, and I hope to watch the drama adaptation after I'm done with the novel.
I started In Black and White by Jun'ichirō Tanizaki, offered by NetGalley and am quite taken with it. I do wish I had a tangible copy, though.
Oh wow Carol, both In Black and White and Shield of Straw are on my to read lists. Let me know what you think! I'm currently reading The Nakano Thrift Shop by Hiromi Kawakami. I know it's next month's book for our club, but my wife gave it to me for Valentine's day, so I decided to get a start on it.
The Nakano Thrift Shop is sitting patiently on my shelf until next month.Sorry about the poor response on Light & Darkness. I know I was the one who added it to the nominations.
Tim wrote: "Oh wow Carol, both In Black and White and Shield of Straw are on my to read lists. Let me know what you think! I'm currently reading The Nakano Thrift Shop by Hiromi Kawakami. I know it's next mo..."
I enjoyed Black and Which te, but would only recommend it to Tanizaki or hardcore JLit fans. You qualify :). Here's a link to my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
It is not 100% successful on its own terms, but it is most interesting because of the debate then going on between Tanizaki and Akutagawa Ryunosuke, which is described in detail in the afterward.
Shield of Straw I loved. I can't believe I bought it two years ago and didn't read it until now because its reviews were unusually weak. If you are in the mood for a thriller, it is perfect. Pacing, characters, plot. You have to turn your brain back to 2006 technology, but that's not an insurmountable task.
Bill wrote: "The Nakano Thrift Shop is sitting patiently on my shelf until next month.Sorry about the poor response on Light & Darkness. I know I was the one who added it to the nominations."
Bill, I voted for it and wanted to read it, too. I just got myself over-committed this month, piss-poor planning on my part.
Yeah, sorry about not reading Light & Darkness. I did buy it, but school is kicking my butt. Hopefully March will be better since I have spring break.I'm trying to read Hard-boiled Wonderland and the End of the World, but I'm not very far. Hope to stick with it. Haruki Murakami is a comfort food, like a cheeseburger.
The NYTimes Book Review included a review of In Black and White today. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/bo...
That review honestly makes me more interested. I’m putting it on my “as soon as I can find it” book list.
Japanese Literature
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Also finished Kawabata's Snow Country. Am I the only one who didn't quite "get" this Japanese classic? I had very little patience for both Shimamura and Komako.