The Pickwick Club discussion
Dombey and Son
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Dombey, Chapters 11 - 13
Dr Blimber's school is yet another institution from Dante. So far in our journey through Dickens' schools and school teachers have not received many compliments from Dickens. Blimber's seems to be yet another institution that believes the cramming of facts, figures, rote memorization and austere, if any, attention to the individual will produce a parade of scholars. Toots seems to be the flagship scholar, but rather being full of knowledge he appears to be drained of all intellectual understanding. Pity the fleet of students lead by him. Ultimately,Toots is a likeable chap and I think Dickens wants to assure his readers that children can survive in spite of the school system.Paul's education at Blimber's is interesting only in that it becomes Florence's education as well. As Florence undertakes the task of re-teaching Paul's lessons, but with care and love rather than an arid dredging of facts into an unwilling mind, she further increases both the reader's respect and appreciation for her. As Joy commented above, we become drawn closer and closer to her.
There may be some irony here (would Dickens ever miss an opportunity for some good irony?)in that the lessons that Paul struggles with that allegedly will make him his father's worthy partner and heir are being learned first by Florence and then shared with her brother. As Dombey patrols outside Blimber's academy waiting for young Paul to hatch into a fully fledged businessman, his daughter sleeps and passes her weeks in the shadows of his love, alone, unattended and unappreciated.
Tristram wrote: "One might ask oneself why Mr. Dombey Senior would have done such a thing...."
Dombey was completely disinterested on who was sent to Barbados until Walter handed him the dropped letter, addressed in Florence's handwriting. Then he suggested that Walter be sent to Barbados.
Could it be some petty, unconscious, knee-jerk reaction form of revenge? There are moments when Florence is brought to Dombey's mind that he has tiny pangs of remorse (or so it seems to me) about their relationship and seems to want something closer (without really wanting to get closer to her....an odd conundrum). Perhaps seeing her handwriting (when he may have preferred to see his son's handwriting), made him want to take something away from her for the simple fact that the correspondence is not from his son?
Dombey is a complex, damaged character. I can't find it in my heart to dislike him. I feel too sad for him and all that he's missing out on.
Florence is amazing. She never falters in her caring for Paul. Thank goodness she is there for him. Imagine him in that school without her love. Helping him with his schoolwork is small compared to her being in the garden every day to wave at him & giving him moral support.
In terms of plot Walter being shipped off to the Barbados seems much like Martin Chuzzlewit's trip to America. Like Chuzzlewit's case, I believe Dickens has something in mind in terms of character development for Walter but needs him out of the way for the time being. I hope the wooden Midshipman will not suffer too much because of Walter's absence. I agree with Tristram. Dickens has something up his sleeve. Walter is, at once, out of the immediate plot events but he is still tied to the firm of Dombey and Son.
Peter wrote: "Dr Blimber's school is yet another institution from Dante. So far in our journey through Dickens' schools and school teachers have not received many compliments from Dickens. Blimber's seems to b..."Oh, I love your description of Dr. Blimber's school! It describes perfectly how I felt every single one of the twelve years I was in the place. :-}
Doctor Blimber's Young Gentlemen As They Appeared When Enjoying Themselves
Chapter 12
Petra wrote: "Tristram wrote: "One might ask oneself why Mr. Dombey Senior would have done such a thing...."
Dombey was completely disinterested on who was sent to Barbados until Walter handed him the dropped ..."
I agree that Dombey is a complex, damaged character. I'm finding a major shift in Dickens's ability to draw characters. The shift seems to have happened so quickly from MC. I bet Dickens did not spend a day at Blimber's Academy.
Florence, too, is being developed with real skill. She is totally engaging and I am not finding her to be "over the top" in sugary goodness. I find her a totally believable and interesting character.
Peter wrote: "Dr Blimber's school is yet another institution from Dante. ."I don't agree with that. Naturally, Paul, being only six, which is an age at which boys at that time did get sent off to boarding schools, is scared and lonely, but the school, while demanding, doesn't seem cruel or inhumane. Miss Blimber seems genuinely concerned with helping Paul learn, and he does. We may think that what he was learning is pretty useless, but it's what educated Englishmen had to know to succeed in life.
Kim wrote: "POh, I love your description of Dr. Blimber's school! It describes perfectly how I felt every single one of the twelve years I was in the place. :-} "You spent twelve years mastering Latin and Greek, and translating Cicero, Homer, Virgil, Sophocles, et. al.? I'm impressed.
Peter wrote: "Florence, too, is being developed with real skill. She is totally engaging and I am not finding her to be "over the top" in sugary goodness. "Sadly, I do.
Everyman wrote: "Peter wrote: "Florence, too, is being developed with real skill. She is totally engaging and I am not finding her to be "over the top" in sugary goodness. "Sadly, I do."
I've enjoyed reading the earlier posts on Dickens's women and agree that the "good" female characters are cut from the same pale cloth of conformity to social roles of convention and sweetness.
To me, however, Florence Dombey is a much better drawn character than Dickens's earlier girl/woman characters. While Nell, for example, is good, she is too drawn out, too innocent/brave, too tidy a character. Florence, on the other hand, seems to have a mind and a tongue of her own. She is, at once, able to be good, faithful and loving, and yet I feel and see a backbone of independence and thought being developed. While she works in the shadow of her father's presence, literally, symbolically and figuratively, Florence is a character that marks a progressive development in Dickens's woman. Sadly that "progress" will forever remain tiny and muted in his later work, yet she is a crack in the jar of Dickens's women. As Leonard Cohen wrote "celebrate the cracks, that's how the light gets in." I'm a big Cohen fan so I just had to work that quote in somewhere. ;>}
Peter wrote: " Florence, on the other hand, seems to have a mind and a tongue of her own. She is, at once, able to be good, faithful and loving, and yet I feel and see a backbone of independence and thought being developed. "Interesting. I agree that she has some backbone, though not really independence. But for a thirteen year old to never throw a single tantrum, never get angry at anybody or anything, never whine, never get petulant, never do any of the things that pubescent girls do, is just too unrealistically goody-two-shoes for my taste.
I prefer more nuanced characters, recognizing that any real person is a mixture of nice and not so nice, and that everybody gets angry from time.
I'm not seeing a whole lot of this in D&S, and especially not in Florence.
What has she ever done that has been less than sweet perfection?
Kim wrote: "Doctor Blimber's Young Gentlemen As They Appeared When Enjoying Themselves
Chapter 12"
Thanks, Kim, for posting that illustration. I mentioned this before but I think there is some inconsistency here as we can see more than 10 darkly-clad boys going for a walk whereas in the narrator pointed out that Dr. Blimber only took 10 boys at a time. - Not that this be of any importance, but I'm just splitting hairs again.
Petra wrote: "Tristram wrote: "One might ask oneself why Mr. Dombey Senior would have done such a thing...."
Dombey was completely disinterested on who was sent to Barbados until Walter handed him the dropped ..."
Petra,
I agree with your interpretation on why Dombey, on the spur of a moment, decides for Walter to go to Barbados. With the eye of a psychologist, who tends to see the subconscious work in anything - even in the thinnest of airs -, one might not even see a coincidence in the fact that the letter that has been dropped and is in danger of being overlooked is the one written by Florence. Florence's existence (and the fact that he utterly neglects her) seem to be a thorn in Mr. Dombey's side, spurring his feelings of guilt, and that's why he did not want to have the letter in the first place, then - being given it - he "crushed the letter in his hand; and having watched Walter out at the door, put it in his pocket without breaking the seal." In other words, he does not open the letter and even vents his spleen on it by crumpling it.
His uneasiness (guilt and resentment) even induces him to think that Walter was somehow in league with Florence, so that he "looked fiercely at him, as if he believed that he had purposely selected it from all the rest."
If we look at all these details giving hints at Mr. Dombey's inner life, we can say that as far as artistic value is concerned, Dombey and Son is head and shoulders above Martin Chuzzlewit.
Peter wrote: "Florence, too, is being developed with real skill. She is totally engaging and I am not finding her to be "over the top" in sugary goodness. I find her a totally believable and interesting character. "I see your point, Peter, in that meanwhile I have also come to think better of Florence as a literary character. What I found interesting and credible was that Florence must have asked her father to employ a teacher for her (cf. Chp.12). In other words, she is, of course, aware of her neglect but instead of just resigning herself to her situation, she seeks to improve it as far as this lies in her power.
As to Dr. Blimber's school, I'd agree with Everyman: Unlike most other Dickensian schoolmasters we have got to know as yet, Dr. Blimber is an honest and well-meaning man, but, as we say in German, well-meant is not well-done. His professional zeal is so unfettered and overreaching, which is, first of all, a characteristic that makes Dr. Blimber a likeable person to me, that he fails to consider the age of his pupils.There are, by the way, some gems of quotations which show Dickens's skepticism with regard to formal education, e.g.
"In fact, Doctor Blimber's establishment was a great hot-house, in which there was a forcing apparatus incessantly at work. All the boys blew before their time. Mental green-peas were produced at Christmas, and intellectual asparagus all the year round. Mathematical gooseberries (very sour ones too) were common at untimely seasons, and from mere sprouts of bushes, under Doctor Blimber's cultivation. Every description of Greek and Latin vegetable was got off the driest twigs of boys, under the frostiest circumstances. Nature was of no consequence at all. No matter what a young gentleman was intended to bear, Doctor Blimber made him bear to pattern, somehow or other.
This was all very pleasant and ingenious, but the system of forcing was attended with its usual disadvantages. There was not the right taste about the premature productions, and they didn't keep well. Moreover, one young gentleman, with a swollen nose and an excessively large head (the oldest of the ten who had 'gone through' everything), suddenly left off blowing one day, and remained in the establishment a mere stalk. And people did say that the Doctor had rather overdone it with young Toots, and that when he began to have whiskers he left off having brains."
The spirit of rigid learning is also reflected in the building itself:
"The Doctor's was a mighty fine house, fronting the sea. Not a joyful style of house within, but quite the contrary. Sad-coloured curtains, whose proportions were spare and lean, hid themselves despondently behind the windows. The tables and chairs were put away in rows, like figures in a sum; fires were so rarely lighted in the rooms of ceremony, that they felt like wells, and a visitor represented the bucket; the dining-room seemed the last place in the world where any eating or drinking was likely to occur; there was no sound through all the house but the ticking of a great clock in the hall, which made itself audible in the very garrets; and sometimes a dull cooing of young gentlemen at their lessons, like the murmurings of an assemblage of melancholy pigeons."
And, one of my favourites, the description of Miss Blimber:
"Miss Blimber, too, although a slim and graceful maid, did no soft violence to the gravity of the house. There was no light nonsense about Miss Blimber. She kept her hair short and crisp, and wore spectacles. She was dry and sandy with working in the graves of deceased languages. None of your live languages for Miss Blimber. They must be dead—stone dead—and then Miss Blimber dug them up like a Ghoul."
As to Mrs. Blimber, she represents the type who has nor actual learning herself but who still mightily shows off with some bits of education - as when she imagines how wonderful it must have been to converse with Cicero.
Some fine bits of scathing humour, these!
Re Florence:She's in a pickle of a situation. She lives with a cold father, a loving brother and servants. She knows she's unappreciated and her opinions & thoughts are unwelcome. She is, in the eyes of her father, a shadow and she knows this.
Despite that, she wants a closer, loving relationship with her father.....or she did in the earlier chapters. These past few chapters haven't mentioned that so she may now be resigned to having what she has and not wishing or pining for something she can't have. She may be or be on her way to becoming a Realist, someone who doesn't wish, pray for or believe in anything that she doesn't have in front of her. She has what she has, no more, no less and she makes the best of that.
Within that context of living (being a shadow in one's own home), I'm not surprised that she has no temper tantrums and such. As a shadow, she doesn't have the freedom to experience these. Shadows don't.....they just are and they kind of hang about in the background being unobtrusive.
But that doesn't mean that they are spineless or that they won't express themselves one day, when the opportunity arises. They observe, have feelings & thoughts and look to improve what they can in their world. Florence is doing just that. It's not many a young girl who would take on education like that. That was an opportunity of a lifetime and not one that she could have started on if Paul hadn't been around. Paul's education was the catalyst for hers.
We don't see much of what's going on in Florence's head. Her thoughts haven't been shared yet. We see her actions but don't know much about the thought process that brings her to her actions.
I like her and have great faith that her part will be one of strength. For example, when Paul enters Dombey & Son, surely Florence will, too, in some small (or not so small way?). Brother & sister are close and bound to each other. Paul would never leave his sister behind.
Tristam, this quote of yours "If we look at all these details giving hints at Mr. Dombey's inner life" is why I haven't given up on Dombey yet. He's struggling. I'm not sure how much or how deep but he's not content with things as they are (but I don't believe that he knows that consciously).
I believe that he somehow wants to be closer to Florence but his misconstrued notions, ideas and/or upbringing is hindering him and holding him back so far that he doesn't realize it himself.
Dickens is throwing out a few glimpses into Dombey's inner, private thoughts without actually telling us many details but they show a man in turmoil if/when he (Dombey) lets himself think about this issues.
Petra wrote: "Re Florence:She's in a pickle of a situation. She lives with a cold father, a loving brother and servants. She knows she's unappreciated and her opinions & thoughts are unwelcome. She is, in the ..."
Petra
I enjoyed reading your comments, especially since you flesh out more thought and ideas about Florence and her father. Florence has become my main focus during this reading of D&S. It's interesting how returning to a book yields up more/different experiences for the reader.
Tristram wrote: "As to Dr. Blimber's school, I'd agree with Everyman: Unlike most other Dickensian schoolmasters we have got to know as yet, Dr. Blimber is an honest and well-meaning man, but, as we say in German, ..."Tristram
I agree with you that Blimber's school offers the reader a different perspective on the 19C school. Your highlighted quotations fit well with your arguments. If Blimber's "well-meant" energy could have been translated into a "well-done" success it would have been an interesting look at 19C educational possibilities.
Tristram wrote: "Petra wrote: "Tristram wrote: "One might ask oneself why Mr. Dombey Senior would have done such a thing...."
Dombey was completely disinterested on who was sent to Barbados until Walter handed hi..."
I too continue to be amazed at the rapid growth in power, style and cohesiveness in D&S from MC and the earlier novels. It's almost if a magic switch was flipped on.
Everyman wrote: "I don't agree with that."Of course you don't, with anything ever.
Everyman wrote: "You spent twelve years mastering Latin and Greek, and translating Cicero, Homer, Virgil, Sophocles, et. al.? I'm impressed. ..."Luckily my last name started with the letter Z so I spent twelve years sitting in the back of the class usually overlooked and never called on to answer questions that I either didn't know the answer or didn't care about the answer.
Everyman wrote: "Peter wrote: " Florence, on the other hand, seems to have a mind and a tongue of her own. She is, at once, able to be good, faithful and loving, and yet I feel and see a backbone of independence an..."Hi Everyman
Looks like Florence is on many readers' radars so far. I don't think she has done anything that is not "sweet perfection" yet, but don't think she must either. A good person is just that, a good person. The next step would be to question if she is a believable character. To me, Florence is both believable and enjoyable to read. It's 1846, and Dickens knew who his audience was and what they wanted.
Even Ibsen, in 1879, had a second ending for A Doll House. The famous slamming door was muted. While Ibsen wanted to move history, society and personal freedom from convention forward in his plays, Dickens, I believe, was content to stay within the bounds of convention and "expectation" from his reading audience. Even with GE's endings we see what Dickens wanted and what the audience finally received as an indication of his final understanding of what was "expected" of him.
Tristram wrote: "Thanks, Kim, for posting that illustration. I mentioned this before but I think there is some..."I also do not understand that illustration. I have counted the number of boys more than once and come up with seventeen and there may be one or two more that are hidden that look like shadows to me but may be more boys. I don't understand why the illustrator would draw more than the clearly stated ten, or why Dickens just let it go.
Tristram wrote: "As to Dr. Blimber's school, I'd agree with Everyman: Unlike most other Dickensian schoolmasters we have got to know as yet, Dr. Blimber is an honest and well-meaning man, but, as we say in German, ..."As to Dr. Blimber's school, although I refuse to agree with either of you, what I like about it is at least the boys seem to be fed, certainly much better than they were ever fed at Squeer's school in Nicholas Nickleby.
As to quotes I like this from Chapter 11:
'Berry's very fond of you, ain't she?' Paul once asked Mrs Pipchin when they were sitting by the fire with the cat.
'Yes,' said Mrs Pipchin.
'Why?' asked Paul.
'Why!' returned the disconcerted old lady. 'How can you ask such things, Sir! why are you fond of your sister Florence?'
'Because she's very good,' said Paul. 'There's nobody like Florence.'
'Well!' retorted Mrs Pipchin, shortly, 'and there's nobody like me, I suppose.'
'Ain't there really though?' asked Paul, leaning forward in his chair, and looking at her very hard.
'No,' said the old lady.
'I am glad of that,' observed Paul, rubbing his hands thoughtfully. 'That's a very good thing.'
Peter wrote: "PetraI enjoyed reading your comments, especially since you flesh out more thought and ideas ......."
LOL! Is this a nice way of saying I talk too much??!!! :D
Kim, Paul is so funny. I'm sure he doesn't mean to be but his thoughts crack me up.
Tristram wrote: "His professional zeal is so unfettered and overreaching, which is, first of all, a characteristic that makes Dr. Blimber a likeable person to me, that he fails to consider the age of his pupils."Perhaps. Or perhaps the expectations of the age were that students--at least those of the upper classes who were expected to get strong educations--worked much harder at a much earlier age than we expect of student today. Children reading Latin at age five or six was not, if my understanding of the age is accurate, all that unusual.
Kim wrote: "Everyman wrote: "I don't agree with that."Of course you don't, with anything ever."
Now you know that isn't true. I agreed with your decision to turn back after your motor home broke down and not try to come to Washington or B.C.
Peter wrote: " A good person is just that, a good person. ."True. But if they're a real person, they aren't good 24/7/365-1/4. Even the best slip from time to time.
EverymanSo true. Perhaps Santa is an exception, but at this time of year maybe even he is getting a bit stressed.
Tristram wrote: "the elder Carker's shameful secret is revealed to us: He embezzled money at one point in his career, but Mr. Dombey's father chose to keep him employed for all his dishonesty."Thank you for that clarification. I somehow missed why the elder Carker was so shameful.
And I was also puzzled by the picture of more than 10 children, wondering if I had also missed that Dr. Blimber taught more than the 10 I thought was mentioned.
My first thought of why Walter was chosen to go to Barbados was that he simply was in the wrong place at the wrong time. When he entered Mr. Dombey's line of sight in the dropped letter mishap, Mr. Dombey was reminded of his dislike for Walter.
I just finished this section, so I'm off to read everyone's comments.
Peter wrote: "There may be some irony here (would Dickens ever miss an opportunity for some good irony?)in that the lessons that Paul struggles with that allegedly will make him his father's worthy partner and heir are being learned first by Florence and then shared with her brother. As Dombey patrols outside Blimber's academy waiting for young Paul to hatch into a fully fledged businessman, his daughter sleeps and passes her weeks in the shadows of his love, alone, unattended and unappreciated."Well said, Peter.
Petra wrote: "Perhaps seeing her handwriting (when he may have preferred to see his son's handwriting), made him want to take something away from her for the simple fact that the correspondence is not from his son?"Excellent, Petra. I had forgotten that the letter contained Florence's handwriting. I had thought that Dombey was reminded of Walter simply by seeing him there in his office, but the handwriting certainly makes more sense. And it may have been, at some level, an unconscious decision on Mr. Dombey's part.
Everyman wrote: "Peter wrote: "Dr Blimber's school is yet another institution from Dante. ."I don't agree with that. Naturally, Paul, being only six, which is an age at which boys at that time did get sent off t..."
I thought that it seemed the boys at least got fed well, seemingly better than Paul did at Mrs. Pipchin's from the description of Paul's first meal there. Also, his small bed and quarters were described rather pleasantly. As far as the memorization and school work, I don't know how over the top that is compared to what might be considered normal. They began at 7am, but were they studying until bedtime? They did go on outdoor walks and such during the day. I found it odd that when the boys were given 30 minutes of free time outside, they didn't run around and play? I wonder why. If they were so beaten down by school work, it seems that would at least be the time of day they would have looked forward to and taken advantage of it, but seemed as though they just slowly walked about the grounds instead of exerting some energy.
Kim wrote: "Well!' retorted Mrs Pipchin, shortly, 'and there's nobody like me, I suppose.''Ain't there really though?' asked Paul, leaning forward in his chair, and looking at her very hard.
'No,' said the old lady.
'I am glad of that,' observed Paul, rubbing his hands thoughtfully. 'That's a very good thing.' "
I loved this quote as well, Kim!! Paul is my absolute favorite. The smallest little quips from him coupled with his looks and movements are what I look forward to reading each week.
Everyman wrote: "Peter wrote: " A good person is just that, a good person. ."True. But if they're a real person, they aren't good 24/7/365-1/4."
I am.
Petra wrote: "Peter wrote: "PetraI enjoyed reading your comments, especially since you flesh out more thought and ideas ......."
LOL! Is this a nice way of saying I talk too much??!!! :D
Kim, Paul is so fun..."
Never. Keep on posting as much as you want. :>}
LOL! Peter, I knew you were kidding. Just making fun. :D
Kim wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Peter wrote: " A good person is just that, a good person. ."True. But if they're a real person, they aren't good 24/7/365-1/4."
I am."
Dang it, Kim, warn me not to be drinking tea when you write things like that. My poor keyboard.
Lindsay wrote: "re: sending Walter to Barbados...I was under the impression that Mr Carker (the manager) put the idea in Mr Dombey's head to send Walter to Barbados because he didn't like how Walter addressed hi..."
Carker's being the source of young Walter's predicament is an alluring thought because it is evident that Carker is supposed to play a negative role in the novel - just remember his regular and unsettling teeth! Here, however, the whole misfortune is set in motion by a letter picked up by Walter, and if we look at the text, it reads
"'I beg your pardon,' returned Walter. 'I was only going to say that Mr Carker the Junior had told me he believed you were gone out, or I should not have knocked at the door when you were engaged with Mr Dombey. These are letters for Mr Dombey, Sir.'
'Very well, Sir,' returned Mr Carker the Manager, plucking them sharply from his hand. 'Go about your business.'
But in taking them with so little ceremony, Mr Carker dropped one on the floor, and did not see what he had done; neither did Mr Dombey observe the letter lying near his feet. Walter hesitated for a moment, thinking that one or other of them would notice it; but finding that neither did, he stopped, came back, picked it up, and laid it himself on Mr Dombey's desk."
It would take quite some sleight of hand in Carker to make sure Florence's letter - how would he know it was among the pile? - was the one that fell on the floor.
Later, however - you are right - he tries to arouse Mr. Dombey's wrath against Walter by saying that the constant allusions to Carker the Embezzler are painful both to himself and to Mr. Dombey, but maybe he only wants to justify his emotional outburst. Be that as it may, Dombey says Carker's remonstrances are "Nonsense" and "thoughts were evidently pursuing some other subject".
To me, this seems to imply that he is still thinking about the letter sent by Florence.
Joy wrote: "I like Florence bc she reminds me of myself."I know what you mean, Joy. Reminding me of myself is what I have found the most redeeming and endearing quality in other people ;-)
Peter wrote: " If Blimber's "well-meant" energy could have been translated into a "well-done" success it would have been an interesting look at 19C educational possibilities. "It would have been a very interesting perspective on the school system, there I agree with you. But would we not also have been slightly disappointed with Dickens for not giving us the gruesome or at least blundering schoolmaster we expect in a novel like this?
Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "As to Dr. Blimber's school, I'd agree with Everyman: Unlike most other Dickensian schoolmasters we have got to know as yet, Dr. Blimber is an honest and well-meaning man, but, as w..."A very good quote, Kim - and this is definitely the way little children reason and argue. I can see it in my son every day. This seeming simplicity that is so full of double meanings ;-)
I also like this one:
"Now, Dombey,' said Miss Blimber, 'I am going out for a constitutional.'
Paul wondered what that was, and why she didn't send the footman out to get it in such unfavourable weather. But he made no observation on the subject: his attention being devoted to a little pile of new books, on which Miss Blimber appeared to have been recently engaged."
It would intest me, though, why you don't agree with our impression that Dr. Blimber is, at least, well-meaning. I have not as yet found any hint at deliberate cruelty in his behaviour, and I even think he would be a man I could get on well with, provided I were not an inmate of his school.
Everyman wrote: "Tristram wrote: "His professional zeal is so unfettered and overreaching, which is, first of all, a characteristic that makes Dr. Blimber a likeable person to me, that he fails to consider the age ..."Maybe it was the expectation of the age as such that Dickens wanted to criticize here.
In Germany, I think we are going to the other extreme, i.e. we expect too little of our students when it comes to acquiring knowledge and to exercise one's memory. Instead we expect too much when it comes to interpreting texts.
Linda wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Peter wrote: "Dr Blimber's school is yet another institution from Dante. ."I don't agree with that. Naturally, Paul, being only six, which is an age at which boys at that time d..."
Hmmm, maybe if young children have to read and study all day long, they will lack power and the will to run around and frolic after a while?
Kim wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Peter wrote: " A good person is just that, a good person. ."True. But if they're a real person, they aren't good 24/7/365-1/4."
I am."
I tried once or twice, but found it neither entertaining nor rewarding in any way ;-)
Tristram wrote: "Peter wrote: " If Blimber's "well-meant" energy could have been translated into a "well-done" success it would have been an interesting look at 19C educational possibilities. "It would have been ..."
Dickens does give his readers an education on the school systems of the time. It will be quite the lively time for comments and memories when we reach Hard Times.
Tristram wrote: "It would intest me, though, why you don't agree with our impression that Dr. Blimber is, at least, well-meaning..."Why don't I agree with you? Who said I need a reason not to agree with either you or the other grump? It just goes against my natural inclinations. ;-} As to Dr. Blimber, I have no real problem with him, I don't think he is a "bad guy" the way Squeers was, he does wear his poor students down with all the learning however until there is nothing left of them, not a very pleasant way of going through life:
"They knew no rest from the pursuit of stony-hearted verbs, savage noun-substantives, inflexible syntactic passages, and ghosts of exercises that appeared to them in their dreams. Under the forcing system, a young gentleman usually took leave of his spirits in three weeks. He had all the cares of the world on his head in three months. He conceived bitter sentiments against his parents or guardians in four; he was an old misanthrope, in five; envied Curtius that blessed refuge in the earth, in six; and at the end of the first twelvemonth had arrived at the conclusion, from which he never afterwards departed, that all the fancies of the poets, and lessons of the sages, were a mere collection of words and grammar, and had no other meaning in the world.
But he went on blow, blow, blowing, in the Doctor's hothouse, all the time; and the Doctor's glory and reputation were great, when he took his wintry growth home to his relations and friends."
It would simply have been nice if those of us who struggled in those brick buildings from things like seizures, migraines and side effects from medications, would just have been left alone sometimes. With me it wasn't the learning, learning, learning so much as the endless taunting from classmates and just being tired in general. Sorry teachers, but I hated it. Especially math. :-}
Kim wrote: "Who said I need a reason not to agree with either you or the other grump?."Goodness. Nobody would ever be so foolish as to suggest that you need, or even have, reasons to be dis-agreeable.
The Pickwick Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Blood of Olympus (other topics)The Eye of the World (other topics)
Chapter 11 of the novel takes Paul away from Mrs. Pipchin's to a new scene of learning, i.e. to Dr. Blimber's establishment at Brighton. Dr. Blimber is an over-zealous scholar, who has made it a principle to just board and lodge 10 students at a time - although in the picture which shows us him and the inmates of his school go for a walk there seem to be more than 10 young boys - and who takes his task of instilling them with knowledge very seriously. We are introduced to Mr. Toots, whose mind seems to have given way under the constant strain of acquiring knowledge.
Peter coined the phrase of Schools from Hell with a view to the schools Dickens has introduced us to so far, and it might be interesting to discuss this with regard to Dr. Blimber's.
In Chapter 12, we get more information on how students are treated in Dr. Blimber's establishment. We also learn that Paul is denied any further acquaintance with the old seaman who used to take him to the beach and explain the mysteries of the sea to him. Plus we see that Florence is determined to work her way through all the books Paul is expected to master because she thinks this way she can help him. May I add that, to my mind, Florence finally acquires more of a sense of lifelikeness (is such a word exists; if not, it should)?
Chapter 13 takes us back to Walter Gay and to the firm of Dombey and Son, whose offices seem to be crammed into some mouldy cellar. We make the acquaintance of the musical Mr. Morfin, a genial old bachelor, and the younger Mr. Carker, an arrogant career-oriented, feline sort of guy. At the end of the chapter, the elder Carker's shameful secret is revealed to us: He embezzled money at one point in his career, but Mr. Dombey's father chose to keep him employed for all his dishonesty. One might ask oneself why Mr. Dombey Senior would have done such a thing.
The most important plot element seems to lie in Walter's being sent away to Barbados to fill some vacancy there. It is very interesting, I think, why Mr. Dombey, who at first did not care a fig about who'd go there, finally chose poor Walter.
Any ideas?