Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion
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Everything I Never Told You
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Discussion: Everything I Never Told You
I am still reading 'Til the Well Runs Dry but really do not want to miss out on the discussion this time so I will be starting soon. Is there a discussion plan set?
I am pretty new to the group so would love some pointers :).
I'm number 28 in the wait-list for Everything I Never Told You at the library, with only 8 copies available. I may get one in November.
Mod
Is there a discussion plan set?
I am pretty n..."
LFPC welcomes you, Virginie! Typically, we do a little pre-discussion talk for the first couple of days with general conversation about the author, body of work (if any) etc...The reading schedule will follow thereafter most likely around the 5th to allow time for members to get a copy of the book. So, don't worry you have time.
Also, the 'Til the Well Runs Dry thread stays open forever and ever so continue to comment there if you like. We would love to hear your thoughts and opinions.
Mod
Oh no, Sarah! Let's hope those 28 people ahead of you are all graduates of Evelyn Woods Speed Reading Course.
Columbus wrote: "Virginie wrote: "I am still reading 'Til the Well Runs Dry but really do not want to miss out on the discussion this time so I will be starting soon. Is there a discussion plan se..."
Thanks for having me.
I am looking forward to the next read :).
i started it last night. it's a fast read so i expect to be done quickly.
I had the opportunity to read this book several months ago and enjoyed. Some of the details may be a little fuzzy but the overall essence and themes of the books have stayed with me. The quiet graceful language sneaks up on you and keeps you centered in this book.
"The quiet graceful language sneaks up on you and keeps you centered in this book."these are lovely words, beverly.
I am not going to be able to start this one until the 13th when it is due back to the library. I am excited for this one too.
Mod
I just got this from the library today. I've already cried like 5 times in the first 10 pages, so this is going to be a rough one. I suppose it is the parent in me.I do like her writing style; simple, but quite beautiful. Looking forward to the discussion!
Oh, and I noticed her Goodreads' profile says her twitter name is "pronounced_ing", as in how to pronounce her last name, which I thought was funny (and constructive!).
Everything I Never Told You was a beautifully written narrative about racism, loneliness, alienation and multigenerational conflicts. Hopefully it will be nominated for the Pulitzer.
Mod
Since you brought up her writing style, we can start the discussion now with the first couple of chapters. I have to admit, I would've preferred a first person account throughout the book rather than the style she's used here.The constant back and forth became a little annoying to me. Furthermore, the first couple of chapters was a little frustrating and confusing with the narration changing in the middle of the paragraph. Maybe it was just me because I don't recall others complaining about this in the Goodreads reviews from readers. What have the rest of you experienced with the writing style?
Also, I'll set schedule later today.
Columbus wrote: "Michael, I've read several reviews and postings from readers where they advised one to keep a hankie nearby because this is a tearjerker..."Thanks for the warning, Columbus!
As to the Point of View, I only rarely get bothered by POV in books, so I'm probably not a fair judge. I think once I adjust in the first few sentences I'm okay unless something feels off about it. That said, there was a place in Chapter Two where it switched from Marilyn to James after a long section on Marilyn and it threw me off for a second.
I think I've been more moved about what she is saying about each person, and so I haven't noticed very much who is saying it. But as I ponder your question, I think moving freely between POV really highlights how the character's lives intertwine.
For example, I remember being amazed at the very first paragraph. Ms. Ng gives one sentence to each character and manages to convey so much about the context, the relationships, even the geography. I thought it felt efficient and natural at the same time.
Also, switching between points of view allowed one of the story's most chilling sentences for me so far (p.7): (view spoiler)
Mod
Chapters 1-3 = Today thru Oct 7th
Chapters 4-6 = Oct 8th thru 14th
Chapters 7-9 = Oct 15th thru 20th
Chapters 10-12 = Oct 21st til end
Let's begin...
Mod
Thanks for the warning, Columbus!
As ..."
Thanks, Michael. I think I'm in the minority about this because it doesn't appear to have bothered anyone else. But, it bothered me for the first five or six chapters for sure.
Mod
What's your thoughts on opening lines in books and this one in particular? This one has received a lot of attention from reviewers/critics. Gimmicky? Important? All about nothing?
Columbus wrote: ""Lydia is dead. But they don't know this yet."What's your thoughts on opening lines in books and this one in particular? This one has received a lot of attention from reviewers/critics. Gimmicky?..."
It's not as good as the first line from Ghana Must Go. "Kweku dies barefoot on a Sunday before sunrise, his slippers by the doorway to the bedroom like dogs."
Mod
What's your thoughts on opening lines in books and this one in particular? This one has received a lot of attention from reviewers/c..."
Ooh, Sarah you are so, so right. I like that one because there was real meaning behind it. The opening was not placed there JUST to get a rise out of folk - if you know what I mean. Thanks for that!
I agree, that was a great line from Ghana Must Go. I admit I am comparing the books a lot, since they open similarly and fill in the backstory as they go. Ghana Must Go seemed much more poetic and intense, but I am finding Everything I Never Told You to be a little more accessible, and I'm crying more since this is the loss of a young girl at the gateway to her adult life, whereas Kweku had already had a whole life behind him.The first sentence is definitely a device; however, the thing that struck me about the opening scene was not just the first line, but the way the scene played differently because of it. This was an ancient, familiar family routine they were all used to, except one was missing. And because we know the missing one has died, and they don't, we get to see both versions simultaneously: the simple scenes this family shares together, and how those scenes will look with her missing. We see how they are as a family, and we can imagine how they will look back at these scenes with an ache of loss. It was interesting how the two feelings overlapped while I was reading it.
Columbus, I've been reading some more tonight, and now you've got me noticing the perspective jumps! I think the funeral scenes in Chapter Three made it more noticeable, and a little more confusing. I now think I used the wrong word when I said it showed how their lives "intertwine". It seems more about how their (inner) lives occur in parallel, meaning, they never intersect. All of these points of view are going on simultaneously, but their is no communication between them, the perspectives are all alienated from each other. I don't know if the author is doing this on purpose (probably?), but I think the abruptness of these transitions is one way of showing the alienation of the characters from each other.
Mod
You know what, i'm going to go back and look at this to try and determine if this may have been intentional or not. This author is so intelligent, astute and thorough in so many other area's that it would boggle the mind that this would happen so often. The story itself is just riveting, however! Fabulous!
Sarah wrote: "Columbus wrote: ""Lydia is dead. But they don't know this yet."What's your thoughts on opening lines in books and this one in particular? This one has received a lot of attention from reviewers/c..."
Now I am intrigued about Ghana Must Go so had to had to my TBR list.
last night i find myself reading and thinking, i don't want to read more books about SO MUCH PAIN. there are books about pain that are also about joy, but this looks like lots and lots of pain. as to these changes of perspective, if i had not read the thread (just now) i wouldn't have noticed anything at all. what a sophisticated eye! i'll try to see if i notice it the next time i read it.
so. much. pain.
Mod
-We learn that Lydia is dead
-We meet the parents (James & Marilyn) & the kids (Nath, Lydia and Hannah)
-We're introduced to James assistant, Louisa, who plays a larger role later in the book.
-A possible suspect in the neighbor, Jack.
-James & Marilyn's early life and how they met. Including both sets of parents and the whole dynamics with how they were brought up (Chinese-American & White).
Ok, what else did I miss?
-oh, the early investigation to determine what happened to Lydia.
What's your thoughts on all of these things including the relationship with the three kids?
Those that have finished the first three chapters, what are your thoughts? Beverly, Mina, Virginie, Michael and others, any thoughts?
there is immediately a sense of grief, because this child is dead and we learn it in the first line but the rest of the family doesn't know, so you sort of feel their pain before they do, and anticipate how shattered they are going to be when they learn it. but also, the siblings know more than the parents do, and you wonder, why? why aren't they telling? this would be a good time to tell. but they are not. that creates foreboding. what's wrong with this family?
and then you start going back, to the difficult lives james' forebears had, and to marilyn's academic dreams, which you know almost immediately are going to get shattered (alongside james's academic dreams).
so basically the death of the child portends necessarily, i think, a string of missed chances, trials, losses, bitter moments, disappointments, mistakes, etc.
and you, if you are me, think to yourself, oh no no no no no no. because you know you're in for a bitter ride.
I finished the book this morning. I kinda liked the changing perspective. we don't get too attached to any one character, none of whom are entirely to be trusted in their narrative anyway. it's a bit alienating, but by intent, I think. the reader will have opinions to be sure, but will have to work for actual knowledge, over time.
Mod
jo, I was frustrated when Nath held back what he knew to the authorities. It was one thing I made note of in the first couple of chapters. Of course, we don't know yet if he ever says anything. But, what about Hannah? What did she know?
I have only read Chapter 1 so far so I can only give me first impression on this part.It seems that Lydia was the key to keeping the balance in the family dynamic.
She's the favourite...(no pressure and how very odd), so her parents would not expect anything as earth shattering as her disappearance.
How sad that Lydia felt that she had to play a role (ie: make her parents believe she had good friends and that everything was perfect in her life) to maintain the family harmony.
I might just realise I am completely mistaking as I read through further.
At this stage, I am curious to find out who else knew she could not swim apart from the members of her family.
Columbus wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Columbus wrote: ""Lydia is dead. But they don't know this yet."What's your thoughts on opening lines in books and this one in particular? This one has received a lot of attention fr..."
Comparing first sentence to first sentence the first sentence for Ghana Must Go appeals more to my "love of lyrical language sense".
But I must admit as a parent and grandparent that the first line of Everything I Never Told You grabbed my heart and yes, I really wanted to read more. The thoughts running through your mind a thousand miles an hour -- thinking the worst and yet thinking maybe just a teenage thing and all will be well.
I thought it was a great first line for this book because it sets the tone/situation for the book.
Columbus wrote: "The author throws a lot at you in the first three chapters:-We learn that Lydia is dead
-We meet the parents (James & Marilyn) & the kids (Nath, Lydia and Hannah)
-We're introduced to James assis..."
Since I read this book several months ago and do not want to say any spoilers - my comments are pretty general.
I thought this family will never be the same again then before this morning.
I remember liking the different perspectives from the different characters but thought that the youngest child had the clearest or maybe the least "blinded" view of each character yet didn't fully understand how this played into the situation because of her age.
I came away from the first three chapters with a real sense that the characters don't talk to one another, and that made me sad and disappointed. (Working from jo's comments, I am definitely not picking up on a lot of joy here so far.) People have commented on that a bit, but two scenes from Chapter 3 really stuck out for me and haven't been discussed yet:1) James sleeping with his assistant Louisa after the funeral. I remember the decision point where he was deciding whether to go up to the bedroom where Marilyn was or to leave the house. Even not knowing where he was going, or where he would end up, I knew leaving would have consequences. I've read that the death of a child often results in divorce for the parents, because people deal with their grief in such different ways. So his missing his chance to cry in Marilyn's arms was a real heartbreaker for me, but unfortunately seems to fit with the family dynamics.
2) The volume after volume of empty diaries in Lydia's bedroom. This was such a statement about how closed she was. Maybe she has a secret stash somewhere else and these are just her "for show" diaries, but maybe not because she spent so much time faking her friendships it seems odd she would leave blank diaries around for people to find. If she can't claim a safe space for her innermost thoughts, wow the loneliness she must have felt.
the empty diaries blew my mind too. also that he slept with louisa. i had to go back because i thought i had missed that they were lovers. i have a feelings they weren't, but started being (if this carries on) that night.
and then i can't stop thinking of the academic who could have taught at harvard but teaches instead in ohio. i don't know if anyone's read Susan Choi's A Person of Interest, also about an asian-american academic who teaches in a flyover state. there's something desolate about it. we all make fun of these jobs, and then we get them, and spend the rest of our lives trying to get out of them. it's like the epitome of failure, if you are in academia and are good. or at least it's signified that way. and if you are a person of color the chances that there's like two of you on campus are pretty high, so there's that.
I will start with sadness that permeates the first three chapters and the rest of the book. The first three chapters definitely set the tone and let's us know that loss is at the center of the book. Jo hit it on the head with the profound absence of joy in this book and for me all that was evident with everything that occurs. The empty diaries speak to Lydia not being able to show or even live as she truly was so why would she have anything to write down? I think another theme is freedom and better still the loss of freedom, which I think shows better as the novel progresses. I found myself to be quite angry with this book or rather the characters.
Michael wrote: "I came away from the first three chapters with a real sense that the characters don't talk to one another, and that made me sad and disappointed. (Working from jo's comments, I am definitely not p..."I truly believe that being a parent is such a difficult job (and yes - it is very rewarding also).
I thought that this family was a good example of what looks good - really does not begin to understand the complexities that can exist within family members.
The parents had expectations of their children - especially Lydia because in some ways she was the most pliable. And the parents were in some ways forcing their childhood memories unto Lydia. They did not see Lydia as an individual but wanted her to do the "things" they did not get to do or accomplish when they were children.
Mod
I, too, was angry (mostly frustrated) with this family, primarily the mother and father for obvious reasons. Frustrated for all the secrets and the information being withheld. It reminded me of last month's read 'Til the Well Runs Dry with all the secrets. The mother here, Marilyn, even reminded me of Marcia, from last month, in some of her questionable decisions (forthcoming). Generally, dislikable characters in books are fine if there's some method to the madness. So, I kept thinking, why are these characters getting under my skin so much that it's sort of effecting my enjoyment of the book - to a degree? I still haven't been able to come up with a reason that totally satisfies me.
Mod
jo and Continualknowledge: Good points that isolation and loss of freedom are at the heart of James' experience. Didn't it say Louisa was the first "Oriental" that James had seen on campus in the 18 years he worked there, or am I misremembering that?I do remember the description was that Louisa could have been mistaken for his daughter from the back, but that Louisa's facial features were more Asian than James' blue-eyed daughter Lydia. So I was thinking the relationship would be more nostalgic not romantic, and I'm having a bit of an "ick" reaction...
well, I think the problem is that there's nothing inherently bad about anyone in the family. they're all basically good people. They're bright, they're educated. They don't hate their neighbors or anyone else. The reader would like to see them do well and thrive. just ain't happening as they dissolve into bitterness and isolation, from society and from each other. personally, I felt bad for the youngest child and of course her sister who's dead before we even meet her. the father probably shouldn't have taken the teaching position in Ohio. not a good location for this family at that time. Maybe he thought he was a Marlboro man.
desolation says much in terms of all of the people and thinking and unfolding sadness in this book. is there hope for redemption? read it quickly a few weeks ago, so interested in listening in; not wanting to inadvertently create spoilers.
Just finished chapter 2 and had to do a double take.I was not sure I was reading the same book.
This chapter made me completely forgot Lydia had died.
The author's writing style is just like drinking water.
Reading through chapter 3, one scene at the funeral is catching my attention: Hannah wants to touch her mother's hand to comfort her but then withdraws and James wants to put his hand on his son's shoulder but withdraws too.And I wonder...looking back at chapter 2 at James and Marilyn growing and loving relationship, where did the love go and how the restraint from showing love and affection was passed down to their children. This I feel is sad.
I can't wait to discuss Hannah. I felt so much for that little baby.
Mod
Let's see, not near my book, but, what do we know of Hannah from the first three chapters? I guess not much, huh?
We'll discuss through chapter six beginning Wednesday.
Mod
-At James Christmas party, Marilyn meets Tom Lawson a professor in the chemistry dept. She asked if he needs an assistant. James is not crazy about the idea because he's concerned about what others would think. He asks her not to take it.
-Marilyn's mother died and she goes back home to Virginia to handle things. She discovered her Betty Crocker cookbook. (Page 82). What does the passages in the cookbook say about Marilyn, her mother? Why does the author make so much of it?
-Marilyn calls Tom Lawson to inquire about a job only to find out he's already hired someone; she drives to the hospital where she finds out Jack's mother is not just an employee at the hospital but a Doctor. She then drives to Toledo and enrolls in a community college and takes organic chemistry, advanced stats, anatomy courses. Marilyn had left her family.
-James takes Nath to the Y to teach him to swim where some of the kids pull pranks on him. "Chink can't find China" What did you think of this scene?
-At James Christmas party, Marilyn meets Tom Lawson a professor in the chemistry dept. She asked if he needs an assistant. James is not crazy about the idea because he's concerned about what others would think. He asks her not to take it.This passage is so telling of how James and Marilyn are fundamentally different. Marilyn married James not caring about what people would think. She loved him just the way he is and at the time it was all that mattered.
James however is more concerned about what others think if his wife were to work and this seems to matter more than Marilyn's happiness. He is fighting to blend in and does not see that what makes him who he is is his uniqueness.
What made Marilyn love him was all the differences.
James is just too blind to see it.
Virginie wrote: "He is fighting to blend in and does not see that what makes him who he is is his uniqueness.What made Marilyn love him was all the differences."
What a great way to put it. I think it was also hard for James to see that Marilyn might have some dreams she can achieve, since he is living somewhat with deferred dreams, after having been rejected by Harvard basically. The scene with Marilyn and Jack's mother was done so well, the shock, the assumptions she had made, seeing an entire alternate history for herself. I could see why Marilyn might have gone a little insane at that point, and try to redo everything.
Columbus wrote: "-James takes Nath to the Y to teach him to swim where some of the kids pull pranks on him. "Chink can't find China" What did you think of this scene?"I found that scene horrifying and not just because of the racism, both implied and blatant. As a father, I can see James' dilemma - wanting to comfort his son but not wanting to admit how much these things hurt, wanting to berate the kids but not wanting to make a scene and stand out. It seemed like such a lost opportunity for him to get closer to his son, yet another painful consequence of a racist environment.
I was curious about Jack's behavior in that scene, though. The narrative seemed to imply some question about his motives. Was he playing along or was he trying to lessen the impact of the group's behavior? It could be taken either way and I have a feeling more will come out about Jack later in the book, since it is also unclear if his relationship with Lydia was typical for him - was he using her or did he have true feelings for her?
Michael wrote: "Columbus wrote: "-James takes Nath to the Y to teach him to swim where some of the kids pull pranks on him. "Chink can't find China" What did you think of this scene?"I found that scene horrifyin..."
I found this scene horrible too.
It really made me sad but not for the obvious ignorance of those kids but James's.
How can you not tell your son that it is ok to be the person you are?
I agree with you @Michael, what a lost opportunity.
Literary Fiction by People of Color
Books mentioned in this topic
Time of the Locust (other topics)The Lovely Bones (other topics)
An Untamed State (other topics)
Boy, Snow, Bird (other topics)
Golden Boy (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Abigail Tarttelin (other topics)Gunnar Myrdal (other topics)
Gunnar Myrdal (other topics)
Susan Choi (other topics)
Celeste Ng (other topics)
The book selected by LFPC members for October is Everything I Never Told You by Celeste Ng. This is her debut novel and it has come highly recommended by book reviewers and other authors alike.
Ng's stories and essays have appeared in One Story, Five Chapters, Gulf Coast, the Bellevue Literary Review, The Millions, and elsewhere, and she has been awarded the Pushcart Prize, the Hopwood Award, and a scholarship to the Bread Loaf Writers’ Conference. She earned an MFA from the University of Michigan (now the Helen Zell Writers’ Program at the University of Michigan) and has taught writing at the University of Michigan and Grub Street in Boston. She lives in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Here's her Website for additional information on her:
http://www.celesteng.com
Short Interview on YouTube (no spoilers):
http://youtu.be/DzSw7GfYhbo
Reviews --
LA Times:
http://www.latimes.com/books/jacketco...
Boston Globe:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/books...
So, has anyone started reading it yet? Finished it? In a long library queue anxiously awaiting availability?