Kristin Lavransdatter by Sigrid Undset (dely, Paula, Terri, Chrissie and Dhanaraj)

[Chrissie]

dely wrote: "I think that people are human everywhere and in every period and they will always grip on something to go on in life. C"

That is exactly what I was trying to say but you say it so well.

I definitely agree that science does not exclude religion. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I also think how one is raised is extremely important in determining if one can turn to religion.

[Chrissie]

Oh and Dely, how do you relate to the romance theme of the novel?

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "Oh and Dely, how do you relate to the romance theme of the novel?"

Which romance? Till now I couldn't find something romantic. (view spoiler)[Perhaps only the short love between Arne and Kristin: it was genuine, pure and real. Well, also Kristin's parents love each other and I like that Lavrans treats his wife as an equal (always thinking how a wife was treated in Italy centuries ago). I'm not able to see romance in the love among Kristin and Simon also because they marry only for their parents' will; perhaps they will respect each other and love will arise some day but till now it is only a marriage of convenience (hide spoiler)]

Chrissie wrote: "That is exactly what I was trying to say but you say it so well. "

Thanks you! I'm always scared that I'm unable to express myself in a comprehensible way.

[Dhanaraj]

@ About Sigrid's Knowledge of Saints: She came across saints in her preparation to gather the historical details for her historical fiction. It is also said that this stage of preparation which brought her the knowledge of saints was the decisive stage in which Sigrid seriously considered becoming a Catholic. Even after she became a Catholic, she brought out some wonderful biographies of certain saints.

@ About Strong Female Characters: I have read till now three novels by Sigrid and in each of them the main character is a strong woman. There are certain decisions made by these strong characters which then go on to play out the human drama called the LIFE.

[Dhanaraj]

@ About the Viking Faith meeting Christian faith: This interests me always. But it is seen elsewhere too. Even in Italy, we see the ancient 'pagan' beliefs co-exiting even today with the Christian beliefs. In Grazia Deledda's Reeds in the Wind, we have many instances speaking of such facts.

[Gill]

Just to say I am really enjoying this discussion, even though I'm not reading the books. They are on my price-watch list for Kindle and I' ll buy them when the price drops. (and also Jenny)

[Chrissie]

dely wrote: "I'm always scared that I'm unable to express myself in a comprehensible way."

Stop worrying!!! You are very clear.

Maybe I am ahead of you, but I was just waiting for that which is happening. You can pretty much guess when you start the book that love is going to be one of the themes, so I have just been waiting. It is pretty clear how she feels (view spoiler)[ for the one she is betrothed! (hide spoiler)] Dely, this cannot be a spoiler for you since yo have started part 2. You are never going to get a book like this without a love affair!

Oh, now I understand what you mean when you say WHICH romance! I reread the stuff above. Yes, the romance (view spoiler)[in the beginning is really non-existent. (hide spoiler)]

[dely]

Giorgia wrote: "The wreath > chapter II The crown > subchapter IV (view spoiler)
"

Now I have read the spoiler because I've finished chapter IV of part 2.
I agree with you, of course, for both the things you said. Perhaps you will find interesting the messages among Chrissie and me about the strenght of a woman.

I have some questions because I don't know if I have missed something or the story goes on too fast or there are problems with the translation.

Book 1, part 2, chapter 2: (view spoiler)[ why does Kristin flushes when she hears the name of Erlend? Did we already met him in the story? (hide spoiler)]

Book 1, part 2, chapter 3: (view spoiler)[??? How did it happen that Kristin felt in love so fast with Erlend? Did I miss something? And where is the moral integrity of Kristin? She is so pure, promised to Simon and then she allows Erlend, at the first meeting, to touch her breast? This doesn't make sense. I know she is human but I couldn't believe she was really allowing something like this. (hide spoiler)]

Book 1, part 2, chapter 4: (view spoiler)[everything happens too fast! Also here, she already makes love with Erlend. I understood that she agreed to do it so why is she so upset? From some thoughts by Kristin it seems as if Erlend obliged her but this didn't happen. It was she that falls on the hay spreading her arms as to "invite" him. He didn't do anything, only kiss her thigh. (hide spoiler)]

[dely]

Dhanaraj wrote: "@ About Sigrid's Knowledge of Saints: She came across saints in her preparation to gather the historical details for her historical fiction. It is also said that this stage of preparation which bro..."

Thanks! I thought it was the opposite: she already was Catholic, knew everything about Saints and so she adds them in the story.


Dhanaraj wrote: "@ About the Viking Faith meeting Christian faith: This interests me always. But it is seen elsewhere too. Even in Italy, we see the ancient 'pagan' beliefs co-exiting even today with the Christian ..."

Yes, this is true: religion and superstition often go on together.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "dely wrote: "I'm always scared that I'm unable to express myself in a comprehensible way."

Stop worrying!!! You are very clear.

Maybe I am ahead of you, but I was just waiting for that which is h..."

Now there is (view spoiler)[more than one love affair! (hide spoiler)]. It seems to me that the author runs too much and I have the feeling that some important passages are missing in order to understand better Kristin's character. (view spoiler)[this mix of brave and strong woman doesn't fit that much with religious beliefs or a moral behavior. I don't know, but now everything seems exaggerated and I feel something is missing in order to understand better the different changes in Kristin (hide spoiler)]

[Chrissie]

dely wrote: "Book 1, part two, chapter two"

This is because he is related to (view spoiler)[Lady Aashild, and they have talked together about future boyfriends. Remember she is the one who lived with them and helped heal her younger sister. (hide spoiler)]

Book 1, chapter 2, part 3: I agree with you. (view spoiler)[I find her behavior extremely shallow. On the other hand, even if women are supposed to be very restricted, MANY do end up having relationships that are not legit. That is the reality of life. This is again quite typical of Scandinavian literature. Look how understanding her father is. (hide spoiler)] Even if women are supposed to be very restricted, reality is quite different. To an extent this is allowed/ forgiven / accepted! I mean this is what happens and they are (view spoiler)[ still only betrothed (hide spoiler)].

Book 1 part 2 chapter 4: (view spoiler)[For me it was that she is upset with herself, struggling with how she should be behaving and what she allows and what she feels for him. Kind of a cheap way of making her still a moral upright girl and yet letting her fall to her emotions WHICH ARE SO STRONG! We are supposed to feel her dilemma and so be willing to accept her behavior. So we can forgive her? I don't like this. It feels so superficial , a typical love story solution. Not to my liking. all of this love discussion puts me off (hide spoiler)] and it is why I put the question to you!

[Chrissie]

I had trouble with my spoilers. I think now I have fixed message 61.

[Chrissie]

To put it simply: the reason why I asked you how you were responding to the romance was that I too am having serious trouble with this. Very weak and conventional and shallow and typical. I don't like it.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "dely wrote: "Book 1, part two, chapter two"

This is because he is related to [spoilers removed]."

Yes, I remember Lady Aashild and later, going on with the reading I remembered that she talked with Kristin about boyfriends.


Chrissie wrote: "Book 1, chapter 2, part 3: I agree with you. (view spoiler) "

Yes, there is no balance between (view spoiler)[her morality and what she is doing. I think it's the author's fault because she didn't dig enough in Kristin's thoughts and struggles to understand better her behavior (hide spoiler)].


Chrissie wrote: "Book 1 part 2 chapter 4: (view spoiler) and it is why I put the question to you!"

Yes, it seems explained in a superficial way. (view spoiler)[I would feel for her and understand her behavior if there would be more insight in her feelings and emotions. But in this way everything is too fast; as I said, it seems that some parts are missing. I can't feel for the character if I can't see deep inside her struggle and personality. Perhaps the author wants to lead the reader somewhere else and we are giving too much importance to parts of the story that aren't that important? We will see! (hide spoiler)]

[Chrissie]

I don't know how far yo have read, dely. I am in Part 2, chapter 6. I am quite disgusted, not with Kristin, but with the authors superficial writing. I don't usually like love stories like this. I feel no empathy for the situation and that is the author's fault.Kristin is so naive (view spoiler)[ in thinking that she can get out of her betrothal! (hide spoiler)] And that part where she is visiting Simon's family and (view spoiler)[HE hops into bed with her is rather lame (hide spoiler)]. Also earlier, is it believable that Erlend was able to (view spoiler)[sneak up to her croft without anyone hearing?! Even if the woman she was staying with was old! (hide spoiler)]I don't know, it stretches believability. Sigh.

[Chrissie]

I think I will go to bed and give it a fresh chance tomorrow.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "I don't know how far yo have read, dely. I am in Part 2, chapter 6. I am quite disgusted, not with Kristin, but with the authors superficial writing. I don't usually like love stories like this. I..."

I have finished right now the second part of book 1. I agree with you about the believability and about Simon: (view spoiler)[also when Kristin is sleeping with his sisters and he, talking to his siblings, lays his hand on her breast as if nothing was happening! Lol, I would have never expected such a ridiculous scene. (hide spoiler)]

Kristin (view spoiler)[is very naive! I'm pretty sure she won't have a happy life with Erlend. In my opinion he is fooling her and, in the same time, he makes her feel guilty in a very subtle way: I hate it when men behave this way! But Kristin is also very young, it's her first experience with a man so I feel now also a little bit sorry for her (other times I would slap her).
I think now that the author's intention is to portrait a very naive girl. In my opinion it is her intention to show how naive a person can be, how many faults a person makes in life because of his "humanity" before finding the "right way" and inner peace. Perhaps the author wants also to underline the difficulty a person may find between love for God and love for another person, between moral values and carnal passion; these are strong struggles for people who have faith, that want to live in a proper way but are also tempted by life and desires. I think we will find a message of the author that could sound: though you make a lot of mistakes don't worry because you are human and at the end you will find an inner peace or the faith in God or happiness. Perhaps I'm wrong, I don't know, but I think it could be this way. Of course I will be happy if I'm wrong and the author will surprise me with a completely different message or ending. (hide spoiler)]

[Chrissie]

dely wrote: "(view spoiler)[I think we will find a message of the author that could sound: though you make a lot of mistakes don't worry because you are human and at the end you will find an inner peace or the faith in God or happiness. Perhaps I'm wrong, I don't know, but I think it could be this way. (hide spoiler)]"

Well, we will see if you prove to be right!

ETA: I have been thinking about this as I took my morning walk with Oscar. I am wondering if perhaps Undset was simply presenting a time and place. Had she necessarily to added a personal religious message too? Isn't the other enough? She was a devout Catholic so I guess this must have influenced her writing.

[Dhanaraj]

I began reading it today. I just now completed the first two chapters. I need not be afraid of spoiler, I think as you are already ahead. From the second chapter, i think we already get a message as to how the novel will flow ahead or at least we get a glimpse of what we are to read ahead about the main character.

The clues: "No one and nothing can harm us, child, except what we fear and love."

Another clue: When Kristin is with the brother Edvin admiring the cathedral painting, it is the clolour of Jesus' dress (Red) that falls on her.

Another clue: "....because I fear the Devil and love and desire this world like a fool. But I hold on to the cross with all my strength--one must cling to it like a kitten hanging on to a plank when it falls into the sea." These are the words of Brother Edvin about himself. But it seems to be the advise for Kristin's life.

[Chrissie]

Dhanaraj, I hope you enjoy this. At least you have a good translation.

I have decided to stop. This sentence(Part 2, chapter 6) just finished me off: (view spoiler)[The moment he had barred the door behind them she was in his arms...... (hide spoiler)]

No, such love affair dramas are not my cup of tea. Let me explain very clearly, I have nothing against love affairs and romance in books, but then I, the reader, have to feel and experience at least an inkling of that love felt by the characters.

The hints given about where the plot is leading are too obvious for me. (view spoiler)[ Surprise, surprise, Eline has returned to Erlend and is living with him again. OF COURSE he can not get rid of her! I am being sarcastic. (hide spoiler)] Also in chapter 6.

I tried.

[dely]

Dhanaraj wrote: "I began reading it today. I just now completed the first two chapters. I need not be afraid of spoiler, I think as you are already ahead. From the second chapter, i think we already get a message a..."

I would have liked if the book would have continued like in the first chapters. You will see, there will be a lot of twists and turns: everything is suddenly too fast and it seems to me that the main character loses in credibility.

I liked the sentences you quoted and I would like there were more going on in the reading. In fact, I hope the message of the book will be the one of your quotes.
It is true, sometimes we have the impression that Undset wants to say that people should cling to faith and that desires are dangerous but she also wants to say that people are human so they can make mistakes and it isn't always easy to hold tight faith.
For a moment I thought about Hiob, how he endured everything thanks to his faith but I don't think it will be the same in this book. This one is more "human", we see the weaknesses of people and Kristin is too young to be compared to Hiob.

"No one and nothing can harm us, child, except what we fear and love."

This is so true. When we love something we desire it and we suffer for the not fulfilled desire; but also when we can have what we wanted, there will always be something new we love and desire. When we fear something we are like blinded or paralyzed by the fear. In both situations we aren't free to choose because chained and blinded by love or fear.

When Kristin is with the brother Edvin admiring the cathedral painting, it is the clolour of Jesus' dress (Red) that falls on her.

I interpreted it this way: though you don't see God he will always be next to you. He will protect you though he has his plans with you and not always things go on easily in life but he knows what he is doing; and that people should never lose faith.

Will you read our previous messages and spoilers going on with the reading?

[[deleted user]]

The wreath > III lavrans son of Björgulf > II (view spoiler)[ I am very fed up with Kristin too! I feel like Erlend will bring her misery and ruin her. Maybe at the end of the book she'll become a nun and be done with men altogether.

I am unsure about their age. Could Kristin be 16 and Erlend 28? ( In my mind I see him much older though).

I feel pity for Eline. Similarly to Kristin she falls for Erlend ' s charm. She believed his lies, that he would marry her. Still she manages his property, which isn't doing well. Not surprising since its master spends all of his life chasing women's skirts. (hide spoiler)]

Edit (view spoiler)[ No. Actually Eline is awful. (hide spoiler)]

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "Dhanaraj, I hope you enjoy this. At least you have a good translation.

I have decided to stop. This sentence(Part 2, chapter 6) just finished me off: [spoilers removed]

No, such love affair drama..."

Yes, it is because of this that I said that in my opinion (view spoiler)[Erlend is fooling/cheating Kristin! But she is too young and inexperienced to see deep in Erlend's behavior. No intelligent woman would stay with such a man! His lover turns back by him and Kristin really believes that Erlend hasn't again an affair with her?! He disappears for one year and wants her to feel guilty?! He also induces her to say lies and to make dangerous things that aren't appropriate for such a young girl. I can't stand Erlend also because he tries to make Kristin feel guilty for everything. Well, she feels guilty and he doesn't say anything to comfort or to avoid that she feels guilty. This isn't the behavior of a man who says to be in love. I like much more Simon's behavior (I don't know if it is in the 6th chapter), at least he cares about Kristin's reputation (hide spoiler)]

I'm sorry you are giving up. Will you however continue reading the discussion?

[Dhanaraj]

@ dely: Till now I have avoided reading spoilers. But as I read through and come across certain chapters I will certainly go through the spoiler alert messages too.

About the quote 'clinging on to the cross': I too intended the way you had explained. One knows that one needs to hold on to faith/good. But then, being human one cannot but fall into the trap of loving everything worldly and that can bring lot of sufferings. But in site f it, if one holds onto the cross he/she will be saved.

[[deleted user]]

dely wrote: "Chrissie wrote: "Dhanaraj, I hope you enjoy this. At least you have a good translation.

I have decided to stop. This sentence(Part 2, chapter 6) just finished me off: [spoilers removed]


I agree dely!


(view spoiler)[ Yes. I liked Simon! He was honorable and decent and he took the blame for the end of the engagement. He would have been a much better choice than Erlend!!> (hide spoiler)]

[Chrissie]

I am sorry, Dely, but it is not to my liking. I cannot say I like ANY of the characters. I feel empathy for none of them. A good author can make a reader empathize with even evil people. Nabokov certainly pulls this off in Lolita. No, I find these characters just plain uninteresting. That is the author's fault.

I do agree that the first chapter was much better. Had it only continued in that manner!

I can stick around for a while. I have already returned the book. It is so wonderful you can do this with Kindle

I was reading up on Undset. She was a devout Catholic so clearly this novel probably not only presents a representation of Medieval times in Norway, but also imparts a religious message.

Are there any of us who empathize with a character? And if so, who? I want an author to make the characters so real that I can put myself in their shoes, so I can feel I too might make the same foolish errors. Look we all do make stupid mistakes.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "I am sorry, Dely, but it is not to my liking. I cannot say I like ANY of the characters. I feel empathy for none of them. A good author can make a reader empathize with even evil people. Nabokov ce..."

I agree with you. But in this book I want to focus on the message of the author so I close an eye if the characters aren't that believable (at least they aren't till now). I had already read Jenny by the same author and it was good, though a very slow read and the writing style wasn't noteworthy; but I liked Jenny, the main character, because the author has been really able to portrait the inner struggles of a woman. But if I don't remember wrong Undset wasn't yet a devout Catholic when she wrote Jenny in fact there isn't that much religious stuff (though I don't dislike it, on the contrary, I like books who talk about spirituality and spiritual struggle).
Nabokov is a master of writing style!

Like you, I can't empathize with any of them. Perhaps Kristin's father. Till now he is the one I like the most; I like also the monk Edvin.

[[deleted user]]

I can't relate with any of the characters either. Most of them I plainly don't like. There are but a handful : (view spoiler)[ the father, the priest in their hometown whose name I've forgotten ( the one who has children), Arne was pretty armless so I'll include him and Simon. (He is the one I like best). (hide spoiler)]
I am not immensely enjoying the read so far, but I do want to know what appens next, which I think is kind of a success for a writer.

[Chrissie]

Yes, you are right. I too like Kristin's father, quite simply because he JUST wants the best for his child. THAT I strongly feel.

I can understand that having read Jenny you are searching for the author's message. We all approach books differently, and that is fine! I was looking for an atmospheric book on Norwegian Medieval culture. Even if I knew religion would be part of this, it was not my main interest.

This morning I have been reading up on Undset; I prefer approaching a book/author blank so I can see how I react without any previous knowledge. Clearly she does have a religious message; the book is classified as Christin literature.

[Chrissie]

Gioriga,I don't even like Simon! He is just so boringly sensible and perfect. A person can be too good!

The only person I feel a dab of warmth for is Kristin's father.

[[deleted user]]

Haha Chrissie. I see your point.

[Chrissie]

Oh, and Giorga, I went through my notes to see if I could find the ages of Krstin and Erlend. I just know that she was seven at the beginning. I have the feeling she had just begun menstruating when she was betrothed to Simon, and soon after that she met Erlend. I have the feeling the ages are not given. IF such is stated I usually write it down, but I could have missed it.

[Chrissie]

Am I terrible? I like people who are a little naughty. I like a little umpf in people.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "Oh, and Giorga, I went through my notes to see if I could find the ages of Krstin and Erlend. I just know that she was seven at the beginning. I have the feeling she had just begun menstruating whe..."

Add the spoiler tags for the other members!

Doing some math Kristin should be (view spoiler)[15 when she enters the convent. She was seven when the story starts, when she is ten her parents have the little sister; after 3 years she is hurt and one year later Kristin goes to the convent. If I'm not wrong she is around 15. Then she stays one year in the convent (hide spoiler)].

[[deleted user]]

On the age of Erlend. (view spoiler)[ I just think Erlend is 28 because at some point ( I don't remember exactly) they say that he ran away with Eline when he was 18. Then they say that those two were together for 10 years. SO I'll say he is at least 28.
If he were, What do you think about the age gap between him and Kristin?
In medieval times I would imagine girls to get married when they were 12-14. Men would always be older.simon in fact is in his early twenties. Still, would a man of 28-30 be considered old-ish? Had he not been involved with Eline, had he not have fathered children out of wedlock with her, would he have made a good match for Kristin? From what the "witch" (his aunt) said, I would say yes.
Moreover, today a relationship between a 16 year old and a 28 year old would be frowned upon. I feel like at 16 one is not ready for an adult relationship... but back then? How about when the book was written? Would people in the early twenties see Kristin as naive and ingenue because of her age as we do , or would they consider her mature enough? (hide spoiler)]

[Chrissie]

Giorga, You ask, (view spoiler)['Would people in the early twenties see Kristin as naive and ingenue because of her age as we do, or would they consider her mature enough?" I think she would be considered mature enough. Neither do I believe the age difference to have been considered prohibitive. (hide spoiler)]

[Chrissie]

I am not so sure all of these things have to be hidden in spoilers......

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "I am not so sure all of these things have to be hidden in spoilers......"

Lol, I meant to hide about the (view spoiler)[betrothal with Simon (hide spoiler)] in message 82, not the things related to the age though there could be some spoilers too.

[Chrissie]

Re spoilers, Dely, oh good. Sometimes I think corresponding on internet gets all messed up! You know if you had someone in front of you you you would understand so much more. I SO miss not seeing a person. You can read so much from body movements and facial expressions.

On the other hand I do know that some people are extremely picky about what constitutes a spoiler! Definitions widely vary.

Dely, is it getting better for you? What about for you Giorgia? (Sorry for misspelling your name before. I don't always see the letters so well on the screen.....) And Dhanaraj, and you?

sometimes if someone doesn't like a book their impression can melt off on others. I want you guys to enjoy this.

What is in the back of my mind is also to what extent the terrible translation affected my decision to quit. I really appreciate good prose and with a lousy translator that is impossible. Then at least you have something you can enjoy as you read.

[dely]

Giorgia wrote: "The wreath > III lavrans son of Björgulf > II ...spoiler..."

I agree with you but the more I read the more I think (or I would like to think) that Kristin (view spoiler)[is only too naive, inexperienced and confident. She is more than strong, she could seem like a rebel! When did she change that much? (hide spoiler)]

Book 1, part 3, chapter 3: (view spoiler)[Why isn't Kristin able to see Erlend's behavior and perhaps also lies? Eline also tells her that he doesn't keep promises, so why should Kristin trust such a person? Like the quote that Dhanaraj wrote in message 69: love harms. People are really out of mind when they are in love, at least such a passional love.
What did you think about Eline's suicide? How can a woman, mother of two children and again pregnant, suicide?! I find it so stupid also because she isn't able to give the right importance to things: a man's love by sure isn't more important than children. I can't stand such women who always need a man to live and think more at themselves than at the children. (hide spoiler)]

About the age: yes, Kristin is 16 (view spoiler)[when she left the convent (now she is 17) and Erlend is 28. I don't think that at that time there were problems with such a difference of years and Kristin was considered already a young woman at that age. (hide spoiler)]

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "Dely, is it getting better for you?"

I'm now more curious to know what will happen also because in chapter 3 of part 3 is a big twist. Kristin is always the same, perhaps a little bit worse (view spoiler)[she seems to me like a rebel, a little bit out of mind (hide spoiler)]. But perhaps you would consider the twist in chapter 3 too ridiculous; indeed, in my opinion it is a little bit exagerrated.

[[deleted user]]

Ah, the passionate southerner people... the... British (?)
Lol

I'm more used as seen the British portrayed as the cold northern people. This different point of view is enlightening!
And truthfully, Guinevere and Lancelot fit precisely the description of passionate lovers.

[[deleted user]]

the wreath> III Lavrans son of B. > the very end > (it is really good! ) (view spoiler)[ Lavrans and Ragnfrid confront their marital issues. When they open up about their feelings, I was so moved, for both of them. I have a new appreciation for them. Before I didn't like Ragnfrid, but now I understand how keeping a secret so big for 27 years had affected her. It's the best scene of the book so far, in my opinion. (hide spoiler)]

[Chrissie]

Giorgia wrote: "the wreath> III Lavrans son of B. > the very end > (it is really good! ) [spoilers removed]"

Giorgia -oooh tell me! Put that in a spoiler, but I have to know.

[Chrissie]

You guys seem to be enjoying yourself more. I would love to hear the details. I don't want to read the book but it is fun hearing what is going on, AND I am happy you guys are getting a kick out of it.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "You guys seem to be enjoying yourself more. I would love to hear the details. I don't want to read the book but it is fun hearing what is going on, AND I am happy you guys are getting a kick out of..."

Well, about my message 91, in chapter 3 of part 3, book 1: (view spoiler)[Kristin wants to flee with Erlend. Lady Aashild (don't know if it is written the right way, however the aunt of Erlend) helps them and they stay some days by her. In the meanwhile arrives Eline, Erlend's lover, and reminds him of his promise to marry her when she would be a widow. Now she is but Erlend doesn't want to marry her. Eline is also pregnant but Erlend says it's not his son. Eline wants to toast with Kristin but the truth is that she wanted to poison her. Erlend saves Kristin and wants Eline to drink the poison; he doesn't succeed but Eline kills herself with the sword. So now they must do something with the corpse and Erlend and Kristin can't flee together.
The whole scene is in my opinion very exaggerated and in all this part of the escape Kristin seems out of mind, a completely different person: not only a strong woman but nearly a woman ready to anything to stay with her beloved, she seems evil and a little bit crazy. (hide spoiler)]

[Dhanaraj]

I have completed first five chapters. And I can say this much: I love this book. I am really living in the 14th century Norway and to me till now the characters seem real. No character seems to be exaggerated. It is not that I am an Undset's fan and so I see everything positively. It really is 14th century Norway and Undset has presented as exact as possible.

About it being a Christian literature: I think it has to do with the period in which the plot of the novel is taking place. It was the time when Christianity was the main religion in Norway and thanks to King Olav who almost made it a state religion. But even then, Undset is very realistic and has not romanticized the fact. We see the priests not observing the chastity law and they literally fight among themselves, etc.

About saints stories and Undset's conversion: I think I was right when I made the earlier comment that in preparation for the historical fiction she came across many stories of saints and that in a way influenced her move towards the Catholic Church later on. It is evident from the fact that the trilogy appeared in the years (1920 - 1923) and Undset entered the Catholic Church in 1924.

[Chrissie]

OMG, Dely! thanks for the spoiler. Yep, that definitely would have been a bit over the top for me...... It is good I stopped. I LOVE that told me what had happened. No, no, no...not a book for me.

Well, we can laugh together.

[[deleted user]]

Chrissie ~ super spoiler(view spoiler)[ After the wedding K and Erlend are taken to the bedchamber. Lavrans is there too because apparently this is how it was done. When he sees the way the two of them look at each other, he is first shocked by the lust he can read on their faces. When he goes back to his bed with Ragnfrid he thinks about it more, and how he has never known a passion so great. He is sad because he has never been able to love Ragnfrid. He was very young when they got married and he didn't want to. She was older than him and it was intimidating too. He could not fall in love with her, so he dedicated himself to farming and to their kids. He also says that he was happy only when he was away at war. Then he apologizes to Ragnfrid because he had never thought he had not been a good husband, but now because of K and E , he sees that he did not give her everything. At this point she comes out with a revelation " I never suspected you knew I wasn't a virgin when we married". Shock- he didn't know. So Ragnfrid tells him this secret, that has tortured her for 27 years. She had been raped whilst she was bethroted to L. Her brother tried to persuade the man who did it to marry her, but he refused. So he told R. To keep it a secret and go on with the engagement to L. She had always felt so ashamed of that. To make things worse, soon after the marriage, she got pregnant, but she wasn't sure who was the father of the baby, the rapist or L. When the child died she was relieved for a moment, and hated herself for feeling so.
L. Is pretty shocked, but he puts a hand on her back and just let's her cry it out. (hide spoiler)]

[Chrissie]

Oh, Giorgia..... thank you. Such melodramatic love relationships are NOT my cup of tea. It IS fun reading your summary. If this book was also meant to leave a serious religious message, aren't the melodramatics a bit distracting? Just what is going through my head.