Kristin Lavransdatter by Sigrid Undset (dely, Paula, Terri, Chrissie and Dhanaraj)

[Dhanaraj]

This is the thread for the October Readalong of Sigrid Undset's great work. Anyone interested in the 14th century Norway is welcome to join. Let us take a united time travel effected by the 'painterly language' of the great Norwegian Nobel Prize laureate. This trilogy was specially cited by the Nobel Prize committee ("for her powerful descriptions of Northern life during the Middle Ages.")

Any ideas about the approximate starting date. I am planning to start it on 15th October and then continue it till we finish the trilogy.

[Chrissie]

The fifteenth is fine for me too.

[dely]

For me everything is fine.

[Shellie]

The fifteenth is good for me.

[Dhanaraj]

Seems to good for all. Waiting for Paula's response.

[[deleted user]]

I've wanted to read this for quite a while. May I join you?

[Chrissie]

It is a long book/books, so don't you think that those who want to start earlier should feel free to do so? Also we read at different speeds.

May we speak of our reactions as we read the book; I personally think that is more fun than saving everything up to the end when we all have completed it. We can use spoiler html.

[Dhanaraj]

@ Giorgia: You are welcome to join.
@ Chrissie: Agreed to your proposal. But then using spoiler alert specify the chapter.

[Paula]

Hi! Yes, I'm in. Looking forward to it :)

[Chrissie]

Dhanaraj wrote: "But then using spoiler alert specify the chapter. "

OK.

[LauraT]

I hope to be amble of reading it starting from the 15th

[Nakisa]

Hi, I just joined this group, and I'm in.

[Nakisa]

Hi, I just joined this group, and I'm in.

[LauraT]

Good Nakisa; gla to have you with us - hoping I'll manage!

[dely]

Can I start it? I don't know what to read till the 15th! The books I have are too long and demanding, I'm sure I won't finish them until Wednesday. In addition to this I will be very busy from November because I signed up for the "University of the third age" (though I'm not that old!) and, me stupid, I agreed to be a class representative of my son's class. Of course, in addition to all these new things, I have my usual things to do.

[Gill]

dely wrote: "Can I start it? I don't know what to read till the 15th! The books I have are too long and demanding, I'm sure I won't finish them until Wednesday. In addition to this I will be very busy from Nove..."

I know I'm not in this readalong, but I was very amused by your U3A comment, dely. I'm in U3A also, sometimes I do feel rather old!

[Chrissie]

Dely, of course you should start. Well, that is what I think. I am just going to finish off what I am reading first. I have been filling in books so I wouldn't start too soon. I DON'T want to start before everybody else because then I will finish before everybody else; this is why I am so bad in group reads. I have more time than others and read only one book at a time.

[Dhanaraj]

@ dely: Feel free to start. We had already discussed about it when Chrissie had asked the same question earlier. Start reading it and when you comment use spoiler alert and mention the chapter number.

[dely]

Thanks to you all ;)

I usually prefer to wait for the other members but I really don't know what to start in only 4 days. I will be very careful about spoilers.

@Gill, lol. We could have gone together if we would live in the same town!

[Chrissie]

So Dely, I will finish what I am reading and then start. I don't think tomorrow but a day tor two or three. Something like that. I just hope we all enjoy it.

Good luck. Cannot wait to see how you react.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "So Dely, I will finish what I am reading and then start. I don't think tomorrow but a day tor two or three. Something like that. I just hope we all enjoy it.

Good luck. Cannot wait to see how you..."

I will read slowly. I've read only 10 pages and I'm underlining all the many Norwegian names hoping I will remember them. I had some problems to remember them also reading Jenny.

[Chrissie]

I always make notes too, when I read. This is even harder with audiobooks.

I think I may start today while I finish ff the audiobbok I am currently listening to: Hemingway: The Paris Years. I am not thrilled with it. It is SO repetitive.

[Chrissie]

I have begun The Wreath the first of the three books. They are sold separately in the Kindle format.

The beginning is atmospheric, and Nordic in character. The landscape, as it is described in chapter one, feels authentic both in its physical detail and tone. I like how their spiritual beliefs let current day readers slip into their world of fairies and goblins. Usually such would not work for me, but you understand that this is how they thought - so we are seeing their world through their eyes, and it is all quite magical. We understand how frightened they were.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "The beginning is atmospheric, and Nordic in character. The landscape, as it is described in chapter one, feels authentic both in its physical detail and tone. I like how their spiritual beliefs let current day readers slip into their world of fairies and goblins. "

I like it too. Usually I don't like a lot the descriptions of the landscape but Undset is able to put you in the landscape; she isn't too superficial but she also doesn't add too many details that could be boring.

Chrissie have you ever been to Norway? I have looked for the places we meet in chapter 1 and 2:
Sel, the region where the Lavrans family lives: https://www.google.it/search?q=Nord-S...

I couldn't find Jørundgard; I've found only this: http://www.jorundgard.no/d4Wzn2lrY2w.... and it seems that this town didn't exist and it was created after the book. Someone knows if it really exists?

Hamar: https://www.google.it/search?q=hamar+...
and the lake Mjøsa: https://www.google.it/search?q=Mj%C3%...

I have looked also for the saints because I don't know these Nordic saints:
Saint Helen of Sköfde: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07203...
Saint Sunniva: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunniva
Saint Olaf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olaf_II_...

I have finished chapter 2 and started chapter 3 (things are changing!).

Till now I liked above all the descriptions of the landscape and the life of the Lavrans family and the speech of the monk Edvin in Hamar: what harms is the desire; we are harmed by what we love but also by what we fear.

[Dhanaraj]

I am feeling tempted to begin the book. Your comments make me want to read it. As dely said the descriptions of Undset does not bore you and she had a knack for story telling. And she was truly proud to be a Norwegian and so the descriptions of Norway must be really superb.

[dely]

Dhanaraj wrote: "I am feeling tempted to begin the book. Your comments make me want to read it. As dely said the descriptions of Undset does not bore you and she had a knack for story telling. And she was truly pro..."

I'm reading very very slowly also because I go always on the computer to look for the things I don't know.
About Saint Olaf I have found also this: http://laviadiolaf.blog.rai.it/immagi... but it is only in Italian.

[[deleted user]]

Thanks dely for taking the time to look up all these places and link the pictures :D
I have to say I imagined something a bit different... more woods perhaps. It's good to see how the places in the story really look like though.

The wreath > chapter II The crown > subchapter IV (view spoiler)[ It makes me really angry that if a woman was abused , it was perceived as if that was her fault. I understand that some people still believe that and it's infuriating. I like Kristin's attitude though. She's a fighter.

Also, I've been repressing a certain feeling, waiting for the discussion to start. Time to let it out: I HATE ERLEND!
There, I said it. (hide spoiler)]

Edit: SO sorry dely! In my edition of the book, in the Index there are 9 chapters listed. I am at what my book refers to as chapter 2, so when you said you had started chapter 3, I thought you were ahead of me.

[dely]

Giorgia, add please the chapter where your spoiler is before the spoiler tags otherwise you could spoil something important to members who haven't read it yet! (like me though I didn't read the whole spoiler, I stopped as soon as you mentioned something I didn't read; I'm only half way trough chapter 3)

[Chrissie]

Dely, yes I have been in Norway, many times.

I have to mention that the only Kindle book I have been able to find is NOT trnsalated by Tiina Nunnally. The translation I have is just horrible. I am fuming. I am so miserable that I am considering quitting. It is so annoying knowing that there is a kindle version translated by Nunnally BUT IT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO ME HERE IN SWEDEN. Grr. I am currently corresponding with Amazon.

For me the language of an author is essential. I don't read a book for merely the plot. A poor translation can wreck a book. The first chapter was fine but then it gets worse and worse - the translation, I mean!

This is making me miserable AND the audiobook I am finishing off is so damn repetitive, it is driving me up a tree. The result is that I am in a terrible, terrible mood. Thanks for letting me explode.

I wish I didn't get so involved in the books I read....but I do!

We had a small vacation house right on the border to Norway. We used to spend many summers up north and we often went into Norway. Furthermore the landscape is very similar although Sweden doesn't have the fjords. we often walked in the mountains. The feeling of the landscape is wonderfully described in parts....when the translator doesn't destroy it.

[dely]

Giorgia wrote: "The wreath > chapter II The crown > subchapter IV (view spoiler)

Edit: SO sorry dely! In my edition of the book, in the Index there are 9 chapters listed. I am at what my book refers to as chapter 2, so when you said you had started chapter 3, I thought you were ahead of me. "

I understand, the editions have a different subdivision. Do you have the whole trilogy or only the first book of it? If you have the trilogy then the 9 chapters refer to the sections of the books, three sections for every part of the trilogy.
I have the whole trilogy and the first book, The Wreath, has this subdivision: book 1 (or section 1) with its chapters, book 2 and book 3 both with their chapters.
I think what in your book is "chapter 2" in mine is "book/section 2"; what in yours is "subchapter" in mine it is only "chapter". In fact, book 2 has the title "The crown".
If all the editions have a different subdivision then it is important to add also to which book/section we are referring.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "Dely, yes I have been in Norway, many times.

I have to mention that the only Kindle book I have been able to find is NOT trnsalated by Tiina Nunnally. The translation I have is just horrible. I a..."

I'm sorry for your translation! Mine isn't that perfect too but it is such an old edition (from 1942) and I'm happy I could find at least this one. I had the same problem with Jenny. Sometimes there are some minor mistakes but nevertheless I must read two times the same sentence to understand because the mistake interrupts the flow of the narration.


Chrissie wrote: "Dely, yes I have been in Norway, many times. "

It's good to know that the descriptions of the landscape are real. Do you know also something about Norwegian or Norse legends? I'm curious to know above all if you know the story about the daughter of the dwarf with the golden wreath (in chapter 2 if I don't remember wrong). It would be useful to know the meaning of it and what happens when someone sees her.

[Chrissie]

Dely, I am not an expert of Norwegian legends. I merely read them to the kids when they were small ...many years ago.

You asked if Jörundgaard really existed. This is the "gaard" of Jörund. A gaard is a gård in Swedish which can best be translated as a farmstead. These were run with the help of serfs who live on the land and got free housing and food for their work.

The light, the colors, the feel of the air, the solitude, the echoes, and the stillness are all perfectly described. The possibility of there being fairies and goblins in the woods is all very easy to imagine in such a landscape.

My edition is from the 20s. Some of the lines are practically indecipherable. This would all be beautiful if translated by the talented Tiina Nunnally! And I know it exists. Infuriating.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "You asked if Jørundgard really existed. This is the "gard" of Jørund. A gard is a gård in Swedish which can best be translated as a farmstead. These were run with the help of serfs who live on the land and got free housing and food for their work. "

Thanks! This is very helpful. I was sure it was the name of a town or a village.

Are you listening to an English translation? Aren't Norwegian and Swedish very similar? You could try a Norwegian audiobook. I don't know, perhaps I'm saying something stupid :/

[Chrissie]

No, I am actually struggling with a Kindle English translation. Although Norwegian is very similar to Swedish, I would not get the beauty of the lines. I would only get "what happened", and that is not why I read a book.

I have gone back to the version I have and see if with a new day I am less grumpy.

ETA Kristin Lavransdatter translated by Tiina Nunnally IS available on Kindle, but only in the US. That has no been confirmed.

There are no audiobooks at Audible by Sigrid Undset in English, Swedish or Norwegian. At least not for Europeans.

[Chrissie]

I have searched a bit on the net. Jörundgaard was built for the film. It was located at Jörundstad. Stad means city. Here is a link: http://www.jorundgard.no/d4Wzn2lrY2w....

There are several languages to choose from.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "There are no audiobooks at Audible by Sigrid Undset in English, Swedish or Norwegian. At least not for Europeans. "

Once I had the same problem with amazon: I couldn't buy an English book from the UK and I have no access to the kindle editions outside Europe. They should change this.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "I have searched a bit on the net. Jörundgaard was built for the film. It was located at Jörundstad. Stad means city. Here is a link: http://www.jorundgard.no/d4Wzn2lrY2w......."

Yes, it's the same site I have found yesterday (message 24).

[Chrissie]

dely wrote: "They should change this."


The rules are antiquated. The market for books/audiobboks is global.

I have not given up yet.

[Chrissie]

Oh sorry, I somehow skipped that link. There are large areas without thick forests. You asked about that. The views one sees are exactly the landscapes one walks through. One summer we walked for a week - dogs and kids and my husband. What memories. If you sleep under tall trees and then winds come, you worry that thy will fall down on you in the night. I TOLD my husband there was no problem and THEN there was a storm and boy was he right and I wrong.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "Oh sorry, I somehow skipped that link. There are large areas without thick forests. You asked about that. The views one sees are exactly the landscapes one walks through. One summer we walked for a..."

I have added to many links in that message :D

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I like this personal experiences very much when I read a book set in a country I don't know; they make it more "real" and alive.

[Dhanaraj]

I have the Tiina Nunnally's translation (Kristin Lavransdatter). And it is the Penguin Deluxe Edition. By the way, Norse legends are very interesting. Not that I knew many of them. But when I was reading a book by H. Laxness (Icelandic Nobel prize winner), I came across some references to it. Since then I have been searching for the SAGAS. By the way, Sigrid, as a teenager was a fan of Norse Sagas. Her first Historical fiction, Gunnar's Daughter is modeled after Sagas.

[[deleted user]]

I was very curious about the Dwarf's daughter myth too but I couldn't find much about it.

Also, I didn't know dwarves were the same as trolls!

Here is an excerpt from a Swedish ballad, where the Dwarf's daughter gives a knight magical weapons.

And it was Ulva, the little Dwarf's daughter,
She would show her good-will to the knight;
So she gave unto him a spear so new,
And therewith a good sword so bright.

"And never shalt thou fight a fight,
Where thou shalt not the victory gain;
And never shalt thou sail on a sea
Where thou shalt not the land attain."

As for a golden crown, there's one in the ballad of Proud Margaret. From what I understand ( I could be wrong) she's the daughter of a rich lord and she has already refused many suitors, when the king of trolls decides to take her as his wife. He appears to her while she's going to church, marries her, gives her the golden crown and takes her under the hill, where his kingdom is. There she stays for 8 years and they have 2 sons and a daughter. One day she asks him to go visit her mother, whom she had not seen since she was kidnapped. The hill king grants her this wish, but after she's done her visit, he brings her back to the hill, where he makes her drink a potion that makes her forget everything but her mother.

It's quite long so I'll put the test under the spoiler tag. The part about the crown is in bold.
(view spoiler)[ Proud Margaret's father of wealth had store,
Time with me goes slow.-
And he was a king seven kingdoms o'er,
But that grief is heavy I know."

To her came wooing good earls two,
Time with me goes slow.-
But neither of them would she hearken unto,
But that grief is heavy I know.

To her came wooing princes five,
Time with me goes slow.-
Yet not one of them would the maiden have,
But that grief is heavy I know.

To her came wooing kings then seven,
Time with me goes slow.-
But unto none her hand has she given,
But that grief is heavy I know.

And the hill-king asked his mother to read,
Time with me goes slow.-
How to win proud Margaret he might speed,
But that grief is heavy I know.

"And say how much thou wilt give unto me,"
Time with me goes slow. -
"That herself may into the hill come to thee?"
But that grief is heavy I know.

"Thee will I give the ruddiest gold,"
Time with me goes slow. -
"And thy chests full of money as they can hold,"
But that grief is heavy I know.

One Sunday morning it fell out so,
Time with me goes slow.-
Proud Margaret unto the church should go,
But that grief is heavy I know.

And all as she goes, and all as she stays,
Time with me goes slow.-
All the nearer she comes where the high hill lay,
But that grief is heavy I know.

So she goeth around the hill compassing,
Time with me goes slow.-
So there openeth a door, and thereat goes she in,
But that grief is heavy I know.

Proud Margaret stept in at the door of the hill,
Time with me goes slow.-
And the hill-king salutes her with eyes joyful,
But that grief is heavy I know.

So he took the maiden upon his knee,
Time with me goes slow. -
And took the gold rings and therewith her wed he,
But that grief is heavy I know.

So he took the maiden his arms between,
Time with me goes slow.-
He gave her a gold crown and the name of queen,
But that grief is heavy I know.

So she was in the hill for eight round years,
Time with me goes slow.-
There bare she two sons and a daughter so fair,
But that grief is heavy I know.

When she had been full eight years there,
Time with me goes slow.-
She wished to go home to her mother so dear,
But that grief is heavy I know.

And the hill-king spake to his footpages twain,
Time with me goes slow. -
"Put ye the gray pacers now unto the wain,"18
But that grief is heavy I know.

And Margaret out at the hill-door stept,
Time with me goes slow.-
And her little children they thereat wept,
But that grief is heavy I know.

And the hill-king her in his arms has ta'en,
Time with me goes slow.-
So he lifteth her into the gilded wain,
But that grief is heavy I know.

"And hear now thou footpage what I unto thee say,"
Time with me goes slow.-
"Thou now shalt drive her to her mother's straightway,"
But that grief is heavy I know.

Proud Margaret stept in o'er the door-sill,
Time with me goes slow,-
And her mother saluteth her with eyes joyful,
But that grief is heavy I know.

"And where halt thou so long stayed?"
Time with me goes slow.-
"I have been in the flowery meads,"
But that grief is heavy I know.

"What veil is that thou wearest on thy hair?"
Time with me goes slow.-
"Such as women and mothers use to wear,"
But that grief is heavy I know.

"Well may I wear a veil on my head,"
Time with me goes slow.-
"Me hath the hill-king both wooed and wed,"
But that grief is heavy I know.

"In the hill have I been these eight round years,"
Time with me goes slow.-
"There have I two sons and a daughter so fair,"
But that grief is heavy I know.

"There have I two sons and a daughter so fair,"
Time with me goes slow.-
"The loveliest maiden the world doth bear,"
But that grief is heavy I know.

"And hear thou, proud Margaret, what I say unto thee,"
Time with me goes slow.-
"Can I go with thee home thy children to see?"
But that grief is heavy I know.

And the hill-king stept now in at the door,
Time with me goes slow.-
And Margaret thereat fell down on the floor,
But that grief is heavy I know.

"And stayest thou now here complaining of me,"
Time with me goes slow.-
"Camest thou not of thyself into the hill to me?"
But that grief is heavy I know.

"And stayest thou now here and thy fate dost deplore?"
Time with me goes slow.-
"Camest thou not of thyself in at my door?"
But that grief is heavy I know.

The hill-king struck her on the cheek rosie,
Time with me goes slow.-
"And pack to the hill to thy children wee,"
But that grief is heavy I know.

The hill-king struck her with a twisted root,
Time with me goes slow.-
"And pack to the hill without any dispute,"
But that grief is heavy I know.

And the hill-king her in his arms has ta'en,
Time with me goes slow.-
And lifted her into the gilded wain,
But that grief is heavy I know.

"And hear thou my footpage what I unto thee say,"
Time with me goes slow.-
"Thou now shalt drive her to my dwelling straightway,"
But that grief is heavy I know.

Proud Margaret stept in at the hill door, Time with me goes slow.-
And her little children rejoiced therefore,
But that grief is heavy I know.

"It is not worth while rejoicing for me,"
Time with me goes slow.-
"Christ grant that I never a mother had been,"
But that grief is heavy I know.

The one brought out a gilded chair,
Time with me goes slow. -
"0 rest you, my sorrow-bound mother, there,"
But that grief is heavy I know.

The one brought out a filled up horn,
Time with me goes slow.-
The other put therein a gilded corn,
But that grief is heavy I know.

The first drink she drank out of the horn,
Time with me goes slow.-
She forgot straightway both heaven and earth,
But that grief is heavy I know.

The second drink she drank out of the horn,
Time with me goes slow.-
She forgot straightway both God and his word,
But that grief is heavy I know.

The third drink she drank out of the horn,
Time with me goes slow.-
She forgot straightway, both sister and brother,
But that grief is heavy I know.

She forgot straightway both sister and brother,
Time with me goes slow.-
But she never forgot her sorrow-bound mother,
But that grief is heavy I know. (hide spoiler)]

Please, if you find that I didn't understand the poem, which likely happened, feel ABSOLUTELY free to correct me.

[dely]

Thanks Giorgia!
I have looked for some legend about dwarfs but I didn't find a lot. But it seems that dwarfs, seen that they live under the earth and come out only by night, are also guardians of the world of the deads and the entrances to this world are behind small openings in the rocks of the mountains. Perhaps seeing a dwarf was bad luck or a dwarf could bring a living person to the underworld and there was no return.

[Chrissie]

Dhanaraj, I absolutely envy your being able to read Nunnally's translation. She is extremely talented.

[dely]

I have finished the first part/section of the first book. I want to add my thoughts before starting the second part.

First of all, I like how the autor depicts a strong woman; it is even strange to find such a strong woman seen that the book is set in the 14th century. Also in Jenny the main character is different of the other women of her time.

Book 1 (The Wreath), part 1 (Jorundgaard), chapter 5 (view spoiler)[Kristin is in my opinion a strong woman: she is able to defend herself from Bentein's aggression and is brave to tell to Bentein's mother what happened (though I would have preferred if she had told everything to her parents; she is strong but perhaps still a little bit naive); also, during Arne's vigil, she doesn't keep quiet and tells that the accusations were lies. I don't understand, seen that she is pretty brave and emancipated for her time, why she didn't say to her parents that she preferred Arne to Simon. Has it something to do with her deep faith and so she respects the "Honor your father and your mother" commandments? Or perhaps she is only brave and strong for what concerns herself but she doesn't want to hurt her parents' feelings. I also think that her courage, more than bravery, is due to values of honesty and truth and her strenght comes from strongly believing and following these values.
I'm sorry for all the sense of guilt that she feels not only for Arne's death but also for what happened to her. It happens often that women that are victims of an agression feel guilty and something in them brakes. In fact I liked the quote that says that Bentein had been able to "destroy the virginity of her soul". (hide spoiler)]

Will start now the second part, "The Crown".

[Chrissie]

The strength of women is built into Scandinavian culture. It is such that is so hard from people of another culture to grasp. Of course I like strong women...... but I have also seen how this characteristic becomes too sharp, too strident, too virulent. This is a trait built into how women should be. It has wide consequences. So when I see it, I see more than just the positive aspects. and perhaps I take for granted what others lack. There is a Swedish word "lagom", which means not too much and not too little, just the perfect amount. It is a wonderful concept and can be applied to almost anything - women's rights too. Of course I admire her for her strength, but I have all these experiences that change how I see it. At the same time, I also have myself NOT been treated equally simply do to my sex. who we are and how we react to sexual inequality is a result of many, many past experiences.

I have completed part one too. For me, the Nordic scenery is very well described. I appreciate nature so maybe that is why I notice it. The text is not well translated and I must reread sections to try and figure out what is being said. So the language is hard to appreciate. And the content is not new for me. The plot line is so similar to other Scandinavian prose. Living in a Scandinavian country you get drenched. That is why I will often avoid both American and Swedish books. For me this is rather boring. To understand why I have this opinion you have to know ME. For me this is just not new territory.

[LauraT]

Hoping to start it tomorrow!!!!

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "The strength of women is built into Scandinavian culture. It is such that is so hard from people of another culture to grasp. Of course I like strong women...... but I have also seen how this chara..."

This is a very interesting point! I didn't think about Scandinavian culture because when I read I do it automatically with my background and you surely can imagine what it means to grow up in a Catholic family where relatives still are rooted in an old mentality. I don't know if it has something to do with Catholicism (perhaps a misinterpretation of it) or if it's only an old mentaly where women hadn't a lot of freedom or couldn't make choices. Women live better respect to 50 years ago but they are still considered by a lot of people inferior to men and all this mentality brought also women to feel ashamed when they endured an agression. And consider that I was born and grew up in Switzerland so I was surrounded by a more open mentality but the one of the family was so strong and suffocating that it however marked my personality and my life.
Because of this all I consider Kristin a strong woman because she is completely different from Italian women I saw when I was a child and the book is set in the 14th century! At that time a woman in Italy couldn't go out of the house without the father, a brother or another relative.
I don't know when Catholicism arrived in Norway but I like the mix Undset does of "Viking" strenght and bravery and moral values.

Sigrid Undset knew a lot of Saints! In the second part we read again about some of them: we have Saints Theodora and Didymus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodora...

[Chrissie]

Dely, thank you for telling me/us a bit about yourself and why YOU react as you do. I really believe we all carry baggage, that we are scarcely aware of sometimes, but this affects what we like and dislike in books.

Certainly the hard living conditions steered people toward faith, something to hang on to, something to give them the strength to go on. The Roman Catholic faith began in Norway at an early date, but I am not sure with which King. For this same reason too people believed in the power of trolls and fairies. Don't you think people grip on to religion to help them come to grips with life? Nowadays we have another alternative - science, if we so choose.

[dely]

Chrissie wrote: "Don't you think people grip on to religion to help them come to grips with life? Nowadays we have another alternative - science, if we so choose. "

Yes, this is very probable though I think that one doesn't exclude the other: religion and science can coexist. Nobody nowadays believes only in creationism and this one has a symbolic and allegorical interpretation that doesn't damage evolutionism. To tell the truth I don't believe in religions but I'm a believer. Like Gandhi said: God has no religion.

I prefer to say that with my previous message I didn't want to say that only in Catholicism a woman is (was) submittet (I took only my personal background as example); we can see it also in the Muslim or Hindu world. So I think it is more something anthropological and not religious though many times the Scriptures have been misinterpreted.
I think that people are human everywhere and in every period and they will always grip on something to go on in life.