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[2020] 7th Mini Poll Results
Mod
Well, I stand corrected on the Book of the Month process then. I seem to remember reading the thread and seeing people be surprised/upset they voted for the other "winner" but still lost, which seemed like an appropriate reaction to me. I think most of my hurt and frustration stems from the explanation of the process and its presentation. Why make such a big fuss that you discussed the prompt when you say you discuss every prompt? Why does every prompt get discussed if the results are based on 100% on votes and 0% on judgment? I am still under the general impression mods want to virtue signal allyship by making it known the prompt was given extra consideration but then also want good moderator points for sticking to the numbers. And that's way more hurtful than being told it was simply a close call.
And, at least for me personally, not having the numbers makes it much more difficult. If these divides are so clear, why do they have stay a secret?
I would be much more willing to try to assume good intentions if I didn't have to read so much hurtful nonsense from group members. When some (I deeply hope a minority) are allowed to freely discuss their hate, I'm not about to assume anything good.
Mod
I would say the discussion of results goes something like: “These are my opinions on the top 4, bottom, etc.” Then other mods agree and results are posted. A lot of the time it’s not so clearcut so we look more in-depth at the numbers and discuss different reasons for and against including a borderline prompt in a given group. It would be a bit tedious to discuss each and every prompt since most really are just somewhere clearly in the middle. But the numbers are totaled for every prompt (top - bottom).
The discussion of the LGBTQIA+ was focused on potential that people didn’t like the wording (I.e. specificity), the value that the prompt adds to the list (I.e. diversity), the value of those who had “voiced” dislike, and opportunity for re-submission. In the end, it was decided that other prompts in the past have been omitted with similarly high number of bottom votes so it would be unfair for us to over step the process.
As far as sharing the votes, I’m confident that the overall opinion would agree with the results posted since so many are clearcut. But I think it would be “too many cooks in the kitchen” and there would be so much discussion it would just become convoluted.
Mod
I would personally rather a prompt that said something like "An own voices LGBTQIA+ book" so that both the author and main character have to be in the LGBTQIA+ community. That would limit the prompt a bit more closely but still allow for people to pick across the spectrum of LGBTQIA+, and it would have the added bonus of requiring an LGBTQIA+ author.
I mean, I would've thought when someone said trans people haven't existed long enough to write books would've been a good time to intervene? I feel gross just typing that out.
Mod
Where was that said?
I would personally rather a prompt that said something like "An own voices LGBTQIA+ book" so that both the author and main character have to be in the LGBTQIA+ community. That would limit the prompt a bit more closely but still allow for people to pick across the spectrum of LGBTQIA+, and it would have the added bonus of requiring an LGBTQIA+ author.I agree. I would like to see this.
I'm late to the party and I see the discussion is well under way (and a bit heated) but I just wanted to express my disappointment that week after week we're seeing diverse prompts not being voted in. Two queer women, trans, diverse book, person of colour, etc. It seems like although the discussion and nominations are in favour, there's a silent majority that keeps down-voting them. I may have to consider doing the whole list with diverse books in some way.
I'm happy with the results overall. Other than the NYT list, both were my top choices so I'm very happy those made it. The NYT list was not my favourite, but definitely easy to find something that I'll be able to use. I'm glad it's available on Goodreads too though, because if it was stuck behind the paywall it wouldn't be too fair. I wonder if part of the reason the more diverse prompts are getting downvoted is because people are already incorporating diverse books into their challenges, and don't necessarily want/need a specific prompt to tell them to do that?
I agree about the disappointment. I’m doing the challenge this year with books by marginalized authors (almost entirely) and it has been a great experience. I’m happy to continue on my own way for my own reading, but... The icky feeling from my point of view is from the sinking suspicion that I/we are reading and participating along in this group with a quiet plurality that think “diversity” in ones reading is just a buzzword or to be avoided. I wish for us all to be more curious and open, but of course we can only control ourselves.
Chinook wrote: "Hannah wrote: "Chinook wrote: "My reading for the 2020 list is going to be so queer. I fully intend to read each prompt AND have the author and/or character also be transgender. So far I’m having n..."Thank you! That would be amazing!
Laura wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "I mean, I would've thought when someone said trans people haven't existed long enough to write books would've been a good time to intervene? I feel gross just typing that out."Whe..."
Message 34 of the 2nd poll results thread.
Mod
If that’s not accurate (and there are more older books) then I think it’s an opportunity to educate by posting examples. I don’t get a “close-minded” impression from that comment.
For me this round I upvoted 1 of the winners (series). The other 2 I'm okay with. The bottom 2 were both in my bottom and the close calls were both upvotes for me so hopefully they get another chance.
Laura wrote: "I took that post as meaning it’s a new “identification” in that people are more openly identifying as trans. I would like to think that’s due to progress. Obviously 50 years ago, people weren’t abl..."I mean...there were openly trans people at Stonewall 50 years ago, so I don’t see how you can make such a statement unless you’re suggesting they just materialized out of thin air when the riots started. And no, anyone who says they would fulfill a trans prompt by reading a book about a figure rumored to have cross-dressed once with no real evidence to be “cheeky” is not just in need of a few helpful examples.
Mod
That's where examples come in... If there were examples of older novels published by transgender authors or about transgender characters, then those people who read primarily classics may be more inclined to vote for that prompt.
I feel icky thinking someone is making assumptions about me based on the way I vote. This is a community of readers and I think that is where we should keep our focus.
Emily wrote: "I think the point that was being made in that comment was that there were few books by trans authors published before very recently.... not that they didn't exist or weren't recognized, but that pu..."I don’t get this need to demand examples to prove the value of trans people, let alone prove their existence, but fine. Here are your examples. For argument’s sake, I’ve restricted fiction about fictional characters (as opposed to historical fiction of real people) to being published over 20 years ago. My phone can’t seem to handle saving my comment when I switch tabs, so I will add more books about historical trans figures (because yes, they existed!) later when I have computer access.
Orlando by Virginia Woolf
Breakfast on Pluto by Patrick McCabe
Cereus Blooms at Night by Shani Mootoo
Sacred Country by Rose Tremain
Self: A Study in Ethics and Endocrinology by Michael Dillon
The Danish Girl by David Ebershoff
Mod
I think examples are always a good idea just because not everyone is well-researched. I tend to read popular, best selling fiction and don’t research books much. Providing examples just educates people and many would readily say, “that’s awesome, there’s way more books than I realize”. Ignorance is much different than intentional bigotry in my experience.
Mod
Being interested or not interested in reading a book about certain people has little to do with the worth of those people. I have little interest in reading about US Presidents, politicians, musicians, athletes, etc. It’s not because I don’t think they have worth as people.I understand d your frustration, but I don’t think reading choices reflect where we find worth in this world.
Perri wrote: "I feel icky thinking someone is making assumptions about me based on the way I vote. This is a community of readers and I think that is where we should keep our focus."I think this is really important to remember. It's been said before and it's worth reiterating, that one's preferences in leisure reading is not equal to, reflective of, or indicative of their stance on any issues the topics or books may pertain to.
I enjoy reading books about war, but I certainly do not condone or support war and all the issues that come with it. My reading choices are not indicative of my real world opinions on similar issues.
Making assumptions about each other based on each other's reading preferences is not going to get us anywhere. We have to remember that there are screens separating us and removing all tone, inflection and body language from our posts. We have members from all over the world and I think it's important to keep an open mind to the differences we all have and be aware of how our posts may affect someone. But I think it is equally important not to over-interpret what is being said. I don't think anyone has ever stated that diverse authors or characters are not worth reading, but that seems to be what is being taken when a diversity prompt isn't voted onto our list.
One final thought, only because it was recently pointed out to me by someone I was talking to when they told me they don't like books dealing with real world issues because reading is their escape. I get that. Sometimes people may just want an escape from the realities and controversial issues of today's world, and that can be a difficult thing to do when a prompt specifically deals with real world issues, especially ones that are emotionally charged. It could be a reason we often have so many "cover" prompts, because they offer a form of escapism where the content of the book doesn't matter. I don't know, just a thought that could be a factor?
To me ignorance is saying something like “I’m not opposed to the trans prompt in general, but I don’t know any books that would fit off the top of my head.” Bigotry is saying there *can’t* be any books that fit and if I’m forced to pick something, I will read about a person rumored once by a political opponent to have cross-dressed, because a trans person is no different from an (alleged) occasional cross-dresser. Claiming trans people aren’t “really” their gender is a super harmful myth, but apparently that’s just fine here. And all those groups you listed aren’t marginalized or in need of support just to exist. Musicians as a group can keep playing music whether you find it personally interesting or not. We’re (hopefully...) going to have someone in office as president even if you don’t vote. I think it’s completely different things to say “I don’t want to read books by/about politicians” and “I don’t want to read books by/about trans people.” It sort of boggles my mind to hear an argument of “of course, I support group x, I just don’t want to put even the most minimal of energy into finding books by or about them, their unique perspective is not worth it.”
Rebecca wrote: "Laura wrote: "I took that post as meaning it’s a new “identification” in that people are more openly identifying as trans. I would like to think that’s due to progress. Obviously 50 years ago, peop..."I mean, there’s Jan Morris at a minimum whose been around forever. And I feel like I personally have known about her transition for at least the last 20ish years.
I think that part of the problem is people making observations that are perhaps true to themselves (aka I didn’t know much about transgender people until more recently) and stating them as if they are fact.
It is what inspired my reading plan for next year, that people were acting as if finding one book with a transgender author wasn’t flexible enough. One poster even said something like they wanted 200 or so choices - and even in my rural library I have 200 or so choices alone.
It’s frustrating to hear that a prompt isn’t flexible enough when it isn’t a terribly accurate assessment.
It's perfectly possible to find escapist reads that happen to have an LGBT+ character. I understand that people have preconceptions about books, and hopefully being open to recommendations can help that. I think that the prompt being a close call this time is more positive though? If people can say the kinds of books they enjoy, as a group I'm sure we can recommend books that aren't considered "issue books".
When I suggested the LGBTQIA+ prompt, I didn't know things would get so... heated in the results thread.
Ellie wrote: "It's perfectly possible to find escapist reads that happen to have an LGBT+ character."Wasn't saying it's not.
I just think there are a lot of other factors to why some prompts aren't being voted onto the list aside from "they aren't worth reading about" and was offering one possible factor.
Perri wrote: "I feel icky thinking someone is making assumptions about me based on the way I vote. This is a community of readers and I think that is where we should keep our focus."I think this kind of comment is in fact he opposite of helpful, to be honest.
Look, being a reader is pretty central to my identity, in that I’ve just unpacked a good 20 odd boxes of books. It’s important to me.
But being in a group of readers who aren’t transphobic or homophobic is FAR more central to my identity.
To be able to act as if you could be happy in any group of readers with any set of opinions if you just focused on the reading is so beyond privileged.
It’s like Chrissy said that it’s a sinking realization that maybe I think that I’m surrounded by relatively likeminded people but there’s a silent majority out there reading my words who aren’t. And sure, that’s not terribly different from just existing in the world as a queer person, but when it comes up in a context you’d started assuming was a more welcoming space than you think it may be, it is upsetting.
Understandably upsetting. And if you don’t understand that there’s been some comments that are at best poorly worded in offensive ways over this voting period, I think you aren’t paying sufficient empathetic attention.
For example, while Peter and I worked out the nuances of our positions by PM and I certainly consider us good now, I was absolutely offended by the words he used in his initial posts in that previous thread.
I have been on guard slightly to comments since that thread. It may take a bit of time before that feeling of being on guard goes away. Being told by straight people that it’s a safe space and everything’s just fine, no worries, isn’t going to help. Certainly being told to just focus on the reading isn’t either. It feels like people want to minimize the problem, rather than own that there is perhaps elements of one.
This is similar to me to watching conversations where people seem not to see that they can say or do racist things without racist intent. And that those things can be upsetting even if the intent wasn’t to upset.
I would love to see us as a group to try to get beyond these incidents. I value this group enough that it matters to me to try, certainly.
Chinook wrote: "Perri wrote: "I feel icky thinking someone is making assumptions about me based on the way I vote. This is a community of readers and I think that is where we should keep our focus."I think this ..."
Wonderfully said, Chinook, as always. :)
And because I’ve neglected to say it before, I am super excited to see your reading plan!
In particular in regards to the recentness of the transgender experience, I’d like to point out that there was a prompt related to Egypt suggested and I absolutely found a book that would satisfy my personal requirement that there be transgender content or author about ancient Egypt. There are plenty of cultures where the concept of more than two genders goes back, OPENLY, far longer than people seem to be acknowledging in these threads. Where people absolutely have been living their lives for considerably longer than whatever narrow chunk of recent we are talking about. I’ve been finding books about two-spirited people, about hajira, about ancient cultures, in translation (this is definitely more challenging, I will grant you), etc.
Just look at where we are now in the number of prompts suggested.
The ONLY promptive not been able to potentially fill was the one about Nobel laureates. That’s it. I’ve been able to find options on every list and in every genre proposed. Filling every title and cover possibility. There are a wealth of options.
Why aren’t these options more marketed? More celebrated? I think the answer to that isn’t hard. Transphobia is alive and well. And even where readers aren’t transphobic, publishers certainly think that most cisgender readers aren’t all that interested.
The only way to address that, clearly, is to read the books that do make it big, that win the awards or get decent press. They won’t be five star reads for everyone every time, but if they aren’t read, I can’t see publishing taking chances on making more options available. So it’s frustrating to hear readers say there isn’t enough flexibility of choices without also hearing them say that they realize that their reading choices have a decent chunk to do with what’s out there to begin with, certainly when some posters have mentioned that they want their options to also come from the big publishing houses.
Mod
But I do agree that using concrete language can be problematic. I’m sure I make that mistake at times. I try to be aware of the language I use especially since I’m a therapist and do a lot documentation. But in the end, As Peter said, I’m sure things get lost in the translation. I also am sure my tone is affected by that documentation and just the way that healthcare professionals are expected to write.
I don’t think it should be certain people’s responsibility to educate others. I actually read a really interesting topic on that recently. But I definitely think it’s just such a common practice in our group to post examples and lists that I think it’s a bit different and not meant to be lazy in willingness to research.
I want to go back and re-read some posts, I’m at a baseball game for work so can’t really focus the greatest.
“So it’s frustrating to hear readers say there isn’t enough flexibility of choices without also hearing them say that they realize that their reading choices have a decent chunk to do with what’s out there to begin with, certainly when some posters have mentioned that they want their options to also come from the big publishing houses.”This is a really important point that I think isn’t well-recognized, Chinook. We have to read and support the kinds of books we want to see more of.
I also want to echo the point that intent and impact are different, and that listening non-defensively to people who are being negatively impacted is the way forward if we care about an inclusive, welcoming group for everyone.
Chrissy, I do agree with you about the value of taking on board people’s perspective in a non-defensive way. Perhaps this isn’t what you’re referring to, but in this thread the mods have been accused - with no evidence at all - of considering LGBTQIA authors “not worth reading” and of “rigging” votes. I think it’s understandable that we would want to correct these inaccuracies. Personally, I also find it is difficult to have an open and non-defensive discussion when there appears to be an assumption that others are acting in bad faith.
I totally understand how it feels to feel like people make assumptions about your intentions because of their previous experiences and my own identity. I’m a straight white feminist. It happens online and at work all the time. It feels crappy. But I am trying to not take personally things that I know don’t apply to me, and remember that there are real reasons marginalized people sometimes assume the worst, and I might not always “get” those reasons, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t valid.
Bryony wrote: "Chrissy, I do agree with you about the value of taking on board people’s perspective in a non-defensive way. Perhaps this isn’t what you’re referring to, but in this thread the mods have been acc..."
What I said was specifically that I *don’t* think mods are rigging anything, but also that I’m not comfortable just being told to blindly trust in a subjective decision which, by its definition, is open to interpretation. I would feel way more at-ease assuming everything was done in good faith if it was ever demonstrated, but it hasn’t been. Good faith would be acknowledging the hurt that was done, good faith would be stepping in quickly to make it clear blatant homophobia/transphobia/etc is not welcome here, good faith would be stepping up to *moderate* the space in such a way queer people aren’t forced to out themselves and carry all the emotional labor. Even one of things could’ve changed the atmosphere drastically. Instead of all I’ve gotten are admonishments that this *is* a safe space because non-queer people said so! and that really hurtful comments must just be the result of well-intentioned ignorance that way because non-queer people said so! Not to mention that it’s our fault the prompt didnt make it in because we didn’t...lobby enough? As if it’s not a fraught task to say “find x number of books” where x can never be known and is probably affected by all sorts of arbitrary factors beyond anyone’s control “to make it seem worth people’s while to read about your community.”
If it doesn't get voted in, when I win the summer reading challenge, I will be sure to select a LGBTQIA prompt! *Note: I don't usually win random contests, so I don't know why I am so confident about this one.
Eujean2 wrote: "If it doesn't get voted in, when I win the summer reading challenge, I will be sure to select a LGBTQIA prompt! *Note: I don't usually win random contests, so I don't know why I am so confident a..."
This is literally the only reason I’m doing the Summer Reading Challenge! I never win anything either, and I’m sure if I did the mods wouldn’t approve any of my suggestions, but it’s nice to maintain a glimmer of hope!
Mod
I sincerely apologize if I have failed to demonstrate empathy when reading comments. I like to think that the mods have earned faith from the group in order for there to be trust with our actions. We have had few instances to where we have needed to intervene but I assure you I have personally and have no issue doing so again.
But it’s very difficult to moderate a silent group of people who may or may not even exist. As was said before, there are many reasons why people may have voted against the prompt, some of which have nothing to do with the associated books (I.e. wording of the prompt). I can’t moderate votes when I have no way of knowing the intention behind the vote. I think that is where some are making assumptions, whether founded or unfounded (I.e. they put it in the bottom - they think trans people aren’t worth reading about, disapproval, etc.). I can’t see, nor can I moderate, that from an anonymous vote. But I can point out that it was popular and try to draw attention to the prompt so that people feel motivated to re-submit it.
As far as the comments in the threads, maybe it’s because I’ve gotten to know people in the group and can sort of “read into” their comments. Maybe it’s because I work with teens and have become desensitized to issues. But I genuinely saw no blatant disrespect in need of moderating.
Did I see ignorant comments that could benefit from education or a guiding comment? Sure. But there are ways to respond to people that encourage discussion and allow them to reflect. Talking to people in a demeaning way while calling them demeaning just isn’t going to be interpreted well.
As I said I in a previous thread, I would love for us to have conversations about the publishing industry or great stories by trans writers, especially those written before 1950. I would even be completely happy to create a thread just for that topic. I also suggested we create a Listopia, starting with Chinook’s reading plan.
But doesn’t it seem like it would be more successful to say things like, “let’s talk about...” rather than, “ I know this one had numbers to “support” it, but not knowing what they are, it still feels like the group as a whole is anti-queer, but also that a select group of people sat down with that specific question and said “yes, after much consideration, we agree books with queer characters or queer authors aren’t worth reading”? There are so many assumptions in that right of the gate.
It's quite sad that LGBTQIA+ prompt didn't make it. I voted for it, as it was flexible enough in my opinion (especially since it even didn't restrict it to main character). I'd like to know reasons of people who did downvote it, but I guess they won't be willing to speak up about it. Back when transprompt was shot down, I assumed that most people would downvote for the same reasons I did - not having any suitable books on their radar and not having time or willingness to do extended research. And I don't think that people should be personally offended that other users go into panic mode that they won't be able to find suitable book for a prompt. It's awesome that Chinook is able to get fitting books for almost all prompts suggested so far and I'm very eager to check out that list, but there are couple of things to bear in mind. As users we probably don't overlap that much in our literary tastes - I've checked compare books utility with most of users who spoke in this thread and not one had 50 books in common with me. I can't know that for sure of course, as I don't have statistics, but if it's generally the case for everyone, it's quite possible that for a prompt one person can have a lot of options the others, will have not so much. That's why posting lists and suggestions beforehand is so useful. And it's not only about LGBT+ prompts, but prompts in general. Still, I don't think there weren't enough options posted on the forums - I snatched a few books from recommendations other people posted and I'm quite picky. So seriously, I don't know what was people's problem this time.
It's bit off-topic, but Chinook' latest post made me think in general about state of marketing LGBT+ books. I feel that it's a very disturbing issue. I will write how it looks like from my perspective (non-straight person, that never took active part in LGBT community, and never looked for representation in books, so I mostly hear about things that get enough buzz to reach even me). Despite my general ignorance even I noticed that there is a lot of YA books, that are generally pretty well marketed (which is why it gives impression that it's overwhelming majority), we even have at least one author of that sort of fiction in my homophobic homeland where recently peaceful pride march was attacked with bricks, eggs and broken glass. There are a lot of romance in general and there are coming of age stories. And it kinda feels like those sort of stories are starting hijacking the "brand/genre", it's starting to be like "romance" - even though there are a lot of books that include romance, they won't state it, because it "devaules" it for the target audience, as "romance" is seen as worse type of literature. I feel that a lot of books with LGBT characters are not sufficiently marketed as such due to knee-jerk reactions some readers might get ("uh, lgbt, so it's probably some ya or fanfiction level writing or gay romance 010101"). And apart from that 1) LGBT doesn't say anything about the story apart from the fact that there are LGBT characters included - it will be only selling point to those who are already looking for that in books 2) that chunk of people who will think that book will push on them specific agenda because of that. Even though it's all very shitty, publishers are profit oriented, so that's probably things they are considering. Of course if you will take effort to look, you will find all sorts of prose, but majority of readers don't bother researching. And there is a matter of voting with wallet - let's say you as reader want more books in some obscure genre (or even not something obscure, but let's say serious scifi) with lgbt characters, if you (and whoever else is interested) buy in that genre books that don't market their lgbt themes at all, publishers will think that their obscuring of that content works good for sales. If you compromise and choose something more mainstream with lgbt, they will be like "oh lgbt ya sell the most, so we should publish more of that". The only way out would be finding exactly what you want to read that it also marketed as lgbt and buy that (that is if enough people do the same), but you have to find those first.
I'm bit drunk right now, so I hope I didn't offend anyone above. It's just loose observations of how it looks to me what publishers think. Maybe someone else has better insights, I'd love to hear them.
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I definitely noticed when I looked for examples quickly for my suggestion this week that there were many of the same books on the lists I looked at. Don’t get me wrong, I loved some of them, but i couldn’t help but be frustrated that there had to be some more more obscure options that would be great to “discover”. Rather than the same YA books being pushed over and over.
This is a somewhat side-question question but does anyone know how library reading affects things? I LOVE that I use the library, partially due to the budget factor but also just feeling like I’m supporting local and print books. But do the number of check-outs or anything affect the numbers/sales for a book in any way? I love the idea of supporting certain authors so it’s tough to think that none of my reading “counts” for that since I use the library.
Laura, while I do not have numbers to answer your question I would think it does. Libraries buy books their patrons read. If patrons suggest books and that genre gets checked out often the library buys more of them. They would ask for more of those books from publishers and publishers would hopefully respond.I have suggested a few books to my library and they are usually happy to receive the suggestions. Some libraries just have more funding to purchase books though. Certain genres maybe sidelined because of monetary restrictions and the majority of patron's likes.
Laura wrote: "This is a somewhat side-question question but does anyone know how library reading affects things?"Being a big library fan myself, I have asked several authors this questions. They say that library numbers do indeed help with sales of books. I don't remember all the details, but there is some tracking of how many people check out a given title. Plus, the more people request a title, the more copies a library will buy. As books get beaten up past repair, libraries will often buy more copies. Since several different authors have told me the same thing, I feel confident using the library.
Mod
Laura wrote: "The mods won’t be interfering in the winner’s choice for the summer reading challenge. It hasn’t be discussed much but I would propose that we exclude those prompts that were voted into the bottom ..."I'm still not sure why you insist on putting this huge onus on me to always assume the best of intentions and stay super polite no matter how hurtful other people are allowed to be?
Have you ever been forced to sit with your boss and your company's CEO and your entire team for over an hour while said CEO (who has just fired someone else for being queer, so no speaking up if you want to remain employed!) fully explores just how awful and disgusting and messed up her relative with your sexuality is? Have you ever had to agree with your boss (again, you want to stay employed!) yes, of course, it's more than valid that people of your sexuality marrying hurts his feelings? Have you ever had doctors literally assume you are lying about sex because it doesn't conform with the norm? If they do believe you, do they then offer to test you to find out what the "real" "problem" was? Or question if you're *really* sure of how you feel and ask invasive non-medical questions until you have passed their arbitrary test to prove your sexuality is valid? Have you ever been accused of not truly being able to love someone or fully demonstrate how much you care just because of your sexuality?
Because I have. So no, I'm not really inclined to just say "yes, let's talk about why the group refuses to include any queer-based prompts, obviously this must just be some small misunderstanding about wording."
Mod
But that doesn’t mean it’s okay to then expect the worst from others. I do understand what Chrissy and Chinook are saying and it’s understandable that people who have been through such negative experiences to be more on guard. Genuinely, I do.
But I do still like to think that it would be more successful to say, “Do you realize that you stating ‘x’ sounds like ‘y’”? In the initial situation, that could have been as simple as, “Can you tell me more about why you decided to exclude it?” Especially in an online atmosphere where all tone is lost. Rather than jumping to the worst possible conclusion and thinking that we decided they weren’t worth reading.
I like to think that the mods have demonstrated that we’re focused on fulfilling the interests and desires of the group. Not be secretive and diminish it. If we wanted to be secretive wouldn’t we have just not said anything at all about the prompt?
But I do want to understand the discussion more so am going to go back and look at the related threads more closely. I will also be brainstorming ways to better moderate the discussion, including reporting features. Stay tuned for that. If you have specific suggestions, especially given GR’S basic interface, please let me know, even if it is through PM.
Rebecca wrote: "Laura wrote: "The mods won’t be interfering in the winner’s choice for the summer reading challenge. It hasn’t be discussed much but I would propose that we exclude those prompts that were voted in..."I didn’t downvote the LGBTQIA+ prompt, but I didn’t upvote it either. Not out of disinterest or disrespect or feeling LGBTQIA+ people are not worth reading, but simply because I personally don’t distinguish between straight, queer, transgender, etc. When I pick something to read, I don’t look if it’s about a transgender or queer person, or written by a queer or transgender author, because to me they are all just people, like anybody else. If they’re in the story, that’s okay, if the author is gay, that’s fine too.
I never even realised that LGBTQIA+ people could face such difficulties as you just mentioned and I honestly don’t understand why that is still happening in this day and age. Perhaps it’s because I live in a rather liberal city (Amsterdam), where those issues don’t play as big a role anymore, or perhaps I am just lucky never to have met such homophobic persons.
In light of the whole discussion though, if the prompt comes up again, I will vote for it and I hope it wins. I don’t like it if people feel so hurt.
Fourevver wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "Laura wrote: "The mods won’t be interfering in the winner’s choice for the summer reading challenge. It hasn’t be discussed much but I would propose that we exclude those prompts th..."Thanks for saying this, Fourevver. I think I agree on how to vote going forward (I'll still complain that one book out of 52 is really inadequate, but I see there's a Pride-themed multi-week prompt in the next poll, so that helps).
A listopia is a good idea - we are just moving so I’m super busy unpacking - and I’ve tweaked my back because of all the books, sigh. So I’m not sure when I might get to it. Until then though, I’ve found an amazing resource: https://www.goodreads.com/review/list...
It’s the transgender shelf of Casey the Lesbrarian, and she has other awesome shelves too. It is a bit biased towards Canadian authors, I think, because she is as well. She also has a blog which is really great, but I love finding Goodreads-related resources since I can see my own TBR then.
Entropia wrote: "It's quite sad that LGBTQIA+ prompt didn't make it. I voted for it, as it was flexible enough in my opinion (especially since it even didn't restrict it to main character). I'd like to know reasons..."I love your gender expansive shelf! Most of those weee on my radar, but I found a few I hadn’t come across yet.
I tend not to log general TBR or books I’m interested in here on Goodreads. My TBR is usually books I actually own, though occasionally others slip onto it. So for me, if I compare shelves I’m as interested in that thing at the bottom where Goodreads mentions 20 books that the person has shelved and I haven’t. If those seem interesting to me, I assume that I’m interested in following the person’s reviews.
Around the Year in 52 Books
Books mentioned in this topic
This Is How It Always Is (other topics)This Is How It Always Is (other topics)
Fingersmith (other topics)
The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet (other topics)
Ruby (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Angie Thomas (other topics)Virginia Woolf (other topics)
Patrick McCabe (other topics)
Shani Mootoo (other topics)
Rose Tremain (other topics)
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I’ll definitely share the list - right now it’s jsut scrawled half titles on pieces of paper because I’m terrible at organizing stuff. But I’ll post a planning thread once those open.