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A question on the sensitivity of nicknames
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Someone will always be "triggered". But I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you scrub a story clean of everything that might be taken as offensive, you'll be left with half a story. And who would want to read that? Just be genuine.
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I agree, none of them come off as weight related. And it also sounds like they’re used affectionately, so go for it!
Brian wrote: "Someone will always be "triggered". But I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you scrub a story clean of everything that might be taken as offensive, you'll be left with half a story. And who woul..."I’m of this opinion, too.
I am going to suggest - though others will assuredly disagree - that there is some sensitivity in Ireland to the American co-option of their culture. The red wigs and green outfits worn on the St Patrick's Day parades in the US have been criticised as insensitive. So perhaps leprechaun should be avoided ...
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Rosina wrote: "I am going to suggest - though others will assuredly disagree - that there is some sensitivity in Ireland to the American co-option of their culture. The red wigs and green outfits worn on the St P..."There are more Irish in America than in Ireland. We can take ‘em.
(I’m Irish. We can take a joke.)
I'll just say that I used to hate being called shrimp...
On one hand the names in first post seem OK, but at the same time I don't know anyone who was 'given' a nickname and liked it.
Just my humble opinion: there was nothing wrong with any of these nicknames. Besides, I hate 'political correctness' in all its forms, but especially when it comes to books and writing. It is like shackles chaining down imagination and is too often used as an excuse to try to silence opinions or ideas some people don't like or disagree with.
I'm with Trike and Brian. If you worry about things like that, you will never be able to write anything worth reading. You can write "the sky was a deep, azure blue..." and someone will likely be "triggered" or offended.
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There are three questions:Do you think anyone would be triggered/offended?
Should I use the nicknames or would you advise me to avoid them?
What do you think, would any of the nicknames be politically incorrect?
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It’s important to be considerate, but I think we’ve gone too far in the other direction, with everyone walking on eggshells all the time.
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I would suggest that the context may have as much, or even more, to do with offending someone as the nickname itself. If the nickname is used playfully then any potential offense would likely be mitigated. If they are used maliciously, then I'd expect the opposite to be true.
I actually can offer some real world instances that could be helpful. When I wanted to expand on the way I described skin color I asked friends what they would and would not find offensive. But here's what's important to remember. If you are writing fantasy or science fiction you can actually make up your own nicknames that come from YOUR world. You can make up profanities, pejoratives, all sorts of things without worrying about being sensitive, because they only exist in the universe you created. It can even provide a bit of depth and flavor.
Imho, all these nicknames sound cute and funny and unlikely to cause any offence.
Brian wrote: "I actually can offer some real world instances that could be helpful. When I wanted to expand on the way I described skin color I asked friends what they would and would not find offensive.
But he..."
A good example of a fictional profanity from an invented universe was the celebrated 'frak' from the TV series Battlestar Galactica (the more recent version), made up to avoid censorship about the use of the F-word.
But he..."
A good example of a fictional profanity from an invented universe was the celebrated 'frak' from the TV series Battlestar Galactica (the more recent version), made up to avoid censorship about the use of the F-word.
I have always been very short, or vertically-challenged, to be politically correct, since I top out at 4'11". I have been called pee-wee, little bit, shrimp, Smurfette, and everything in between. I also am apparently a member of the Lollipop Guild, according to my smart-alec son, and my daughter-in-law calls me a Hobbit. But none of the nicknames bother me, nor am I offended when hearing or reading them. There are many worse things that I could be called!! So, I wouldn't worry about offending some lone reader out there. The way the world is now, somebody somewhere is going to be offended regardless of how careful you are in your character descriptions. But I would still be very careful to avoid any deliberately inflammatory descriptions. Why set out to alienate a large segment of society? I don't know if I've been a help or a hindrance with my ramble. But for the record, I also detest political correctness. It started as somewhat positive but is now in the realm of the absurd.
Leticia, you need to understand what you, yourself, mean by "sensitivity" vs. "political correctness." If you don't realize already from this thread, that they are not to be casually conflated, maybe we should take the advice to start a new one.I like Brian's idea of making up an invented vocabulary. But that doesn't quite solve the core question that I see. *A label is a label.* Do you know why your characters are earning labels based on something inherent, something they have no control over?
Have you considered giving them nicknames based on something they've actually *done*? Look into the culture of fur-trapper re-enactors (my ex-husband was called Two Falls [I forget why, but not clumsiness]) or long-distance trail hikers (my dad is called Gray Ghost [old with gray hair, quiet]).
I will defer to others about offensiveness. However, most of the nicknames don't seem to be relevant to cats. They are references to parts of human culture that cats ignore. One example of an animal-centric culture is in Watership Down, where the rabbit names reflected things in their everyday experience like Hazel and Dandelion. Ankle Biter would work, not for the meaning we use, but because we see cats fighting, for play or for real, and biting each other. How about Smelly Poop, Shedder, Handlicker, One Eye, Ear Notch, etc.?
Context! It is so important.I have seen plenty of books use nicknames that everyone would recognise as downright offensive, but in the context of the story, where that is the intention, and the story explores how it affects the receiver of the nickname, this is reasonable.
Leticia, you mention the culture is sarcastic, so you would expect many of your characters to be initially insulted by their nicknames. The only time I think you really need to be concerned about political correctness is if you have a character accepting and liking their offensive nickname - in that situation you would need a very good reason if you don't want to alienate readers.
I would also add a +1 for Chris's comment. In a cat world, a small cat might be mouse, bug, hairball, bitesize. A big cat might be mountain, dog, lion, or (totally offensive in a cat world I'm sure . . ) human!
You're always going to struggle with how much realism you want to include. With main and primary characters this can be a daunting challenge. Fantasy worlds tend to be diverse places. So common sense tells you that there is going to be bigotry in some form or another. It doesn't need to be as we see it. But if you want a reader to believe your world could exist, then real world problems are crucial. And as your characters are a part of this world you need to give them some of these negative traits. Basically you have to provide the space for the character to grow.This will absolutely upset some readers. But not most. They're adults. Unfortunately those who will take exception are rather vocal about it and may even engage in personal attacks.
This discussion has been going on for a while in the author community. I've seen it paralyze writers. Would I and do I risk offending? Yes. But I am sensitive to my audience as the same time. My rule about controversy is: If it's important to telling the story it has to go in. If it's not, don't.
Brian wrote: "I would suggest that the context may have as much, or even more, to do with offending someone as the nickname itself. If the nickname is used playfully then any potential offense would likely be mi..."I completely agree. Context is everything. If your characters laugh WITH the name giver, then it's okay. They can also be easily offended by "giggle pants" simply because the antagonist is the one who gives the label. I believe if the reader understands the context from the POV character's perspective, it will be okay no matter what you do.
Wow, a lot of comments here LOL. I'll try to answer some.
Allison wrote: "None of those sound particularly insulting, though I've never heard butterfly steak as a term for small, so that's funny! Size isn't generally a taboo subject, as long as it's related to height rat..."Butterfly Steak was used by a teacher to nickname me. At the time I didn't like it but I was 11. Nowadays I wouldn't care.
colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I'll just say that I used to hate being called shrimp..."Perhaps no shrimp then.
Allison wrote: "...Yes. I am cutting off the pile on about how triggered everyone gets. Leticia, did you mean would anyone get triggered ever or by nicknames/ the specific nicknames you mention? It was my understa..."I meant these specific nicknames on the first post only.
Chris wrote: "I will defer to others about offensiveness. However, most of the nicknames don't seem to be relevant to cats. They are references to parts of human culture that cats ignore. One example of an anima..."I'll try to come up with more cat-centric nicknames.
Nicknames for real people can be hurtful, but I consider that a separate issue from those assigned to characters in books.At the very least it opens up the ability to talk about nicknames. There’s a movie whose title I can’t recall at the moment where someone is derisively calling someone else what they consider to be a mild slur and finally the person being called whatever it is erupts: “Stop calling me that!” “Why?” “Because it’s my name!”
It’s bugging me that I can’t recall the details at all, but the point is that one character was trying to diminish another character, accidentally using their actual name.
I just saw it again recently in a TV show — oh man, my memory is going — when one guy calls a Nazi “Fritz” to which the German replies, “Hans.” The Nazi doesn’t realize “Fritz” is the shorthand that Americans use for Germans, so he doesn’t take offense.
...I really should take better notes.
Rosina wrote: "I am going to suggest - though others will assuredly disagree - that there is some sensitivity in Ireland to the American co-option of their culture. The red wigs and green outfits worn on the St P..."perhaps no leprechaun then
I like the thought of your original names for the big cats. They do sound familiar, but they could be shortened, Zill, Tito, Chewey, same with the females.In The Wild Road by Gabriel King the cats are Tag, Majicou, etc. The humans are collectively 'the dulls.' So it depends on the story, perspective.
None of these are offensive to me, although I can't say I personally like them all, but that doesn't really matter.I am a Canadian who respects cultures around the world, and who has had to listen to myth after myth about Canada in the US (that Canada is a socialist country is one inane myth, another is that Canada has national health care, which is another myth as it's provincial, that Canada has terrible healthcare when Canadian longevity is longer than that of Americans by 3-4 years depending on gender, that Canadian universities are subpar, etc) so I understand their feelings. But bear in mind that some areas have had a LARGE number of Irish settlers. It was Irish immigrants who started everyone one of the Irish traditions still found in Massachusetts. It was due to the large Irish heritage and respect that it's the Boston Celtics.
Cultural appropriation is as old has humankind, and while I believe we should respect other cultures and many times things are not correctly represented, it goes both ways. European and North American culture, including clothing styles, have been appropriated in many countries but we don't find people up in arms about that.
That said, if you want people in Ireland to read your book, I'd abstain from using leprechaun.
For most people "good writing" is hard, my suggestion is to not encumber yourself or your process with minutiae like this. Give your editor an opportunity to earn their salt.
I haven't found yet a good editor that works cheap enough so I can pay, so I am doing as much self editing and getting input from beta-readers as I can, and learning a lot in the process. I am also a perfectionist so I will always check on every possible detail.
Leticia wrote: "I haven't found yet a good editor that works cheap enough so I can pay, so I am doing as much self editing and getting input from beta-readers as I can, and learning a lot in the process. I am also..."Yes, this is a good idea, but are you going the self-publishing route or are you going to shop for an agent? If the latter, then it won't have to be perfect because the publisher has its own editors. BUT, the stronger the writing and the less editing that needs to be done, the better!
Truly, best of luck with your writing, of the names you mentioned it's difficult to imagine offense being taken by anyone.good luck
Karin wrote: "Leticia wrote: "I haven't found yet a good editor that works cheap enough so I can pay, so I am doing as much self editing and getting input from beta-readers as I can, and learning a lot in the pr..."I'm still thinking about that, but probably self publishing. I'll probably get an editor really at the end, after tons of drafts.
Leticia wrote: "Karin wrote: "Leticia wrote: "I haven't found yet a good editor that works cheap enough so I can pay, so I am doing as much self editing and getting input from beta-readers as I can, and learning a..."Okay, just wondered :)
I know there are sensitivity readers who check for things like racism and sexism, so maybe that’s something to look into, as well. I assume they get paid but I have no idea what the going rates are.Another route to go is asking a local university professor or a psychologist their opinion. I’ve had good luck with that when doing backgrounds for my films. Experts in many fields are very willing to share their expertise for the price of lunch, or even a coffee, but usually I reach out to my friends to hook me up with someone and I just send them an email. My response rate is nearly 100%.
Just make the email short, state your goal, mention the mutual acquaintance, and ask if they have any recommendations on literature on the subject. Experts always know the best sources.
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This is really great advice, I hope lots of creators see it.
Leticia wrote: "I am writing a short story with cats and, like all feisty sarcastic characters, they give each other nicknames. One gets nicknames for being small and the other for being big."I strongly believe that your characters should have a personality of their own. Being said that, some of them would probably be 'politically incorrect' and if that suits the character in the context of the story, it works perfectly fine.
Look, for example, the character Tyrion Lannister in GOT. So many were so politically incorrect with him, and he was so politically incorrect himself! But the character stood up strong, despite of that.
I hope that helps. :)
Do you think anyone would be triggered/offended? Should I use the nicknames or would you advise me to avoid them?
Some of the nicknames for the smaller female cat could be: Leprechaun, Butterfly Steak, Ankle Biter, Munchkin, Gremlin, Shrimp, Nugget, Hobbit, Imp, Midge, and Gnome.
For the bigger male cat: Sasquatch, Titanosaur, Chewbacca, King Kong, Yeti, Moose, Godzilla and Doorstop.
What do you think, would any of the nicknames be politically incorrect?