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Classic Chunkster Nominations - The Most Challenging Book of the Twentieth Century
message 51:
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Ami
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Sep 01, 2014 01:36PM
Okay, thanks...I'll see you at the polls versus 3rd, 4th, and 5th-ing, somebody else's nomination! Great choices, Ladies!
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Quick question. I'm showing 2,666 was published in 2004. Is that just the English version?
Sarah wrote: "Quick question. I'm showing 2,666 was published in 2004. Is that just the English version?"Hmmm, actually that's a good question. I know that it was published posthumously in 2004 (he died in 2003) and I've read that he was hurrying to finish it before he died, but I can't find anything that says exactly when he finished the manuscript.
Sarah wrote: "Quick question. I'm showing 2,666 was published in 2004. Is that just the English version?"Actually, the English version wasn't published until 2008...I just read about it too.
Good catch, Sarah! It was published in 2004 posthumously, so no one knows when it was written. I am officially cancelling my previous nomination and nominating Dhalgren by Samuel R. Delany.
Thank you again!
Besides, we can save 2666 for our third millennium challenge! :-)
Zulfiya wrote: "Good catch, Sarah! It was published in 2004 posthumously, so no one knows when it was written. I am officially cancelling my previous nomination and nominating Dhalgren by [author:Sa..."
That looks absolutely FANTASTIC Zulfiya! And it has a recommendation from Jonathan Lethem. I just read one of his books and it was fascinating and utterly unique. That ought to be a good one.
Aannndddd now my TBR list has once again expanded. So many great nominations.
I was going to nominate House of Leaves, but it missed the 20th century by three months.
Paula wrote: "I was going to nominate House of Leaves, but it missed the 20th century by three months."That one looked good, too!
Sarah wrote: "Paula wrote: "I was going to nominate House of Leaves, but it missed the 20th century by three months."That one looked good, too!"
I know! I was so disappointed.
Ooh great theme! I love a challenge. I like all the nominations here.
Zulfiya wrote: "I know - the temptation is great to nominate books like Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake by James Joyce, and if anyone is willing to nominate these books, I will gladly accept them as nominations, but please trust me, and I am a linguist who read Ulysses and paged through Finnegan's Wake, they are masochistically and delightfully unreadable."I tend to agree with you, but after all you titled this theme "THE Most Challenging Book...", not "A Very Challenging Book...", and while there are other challenging books, realistically are there any that are MORE challenging than Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake?
Okay, I'm being pedantic and probably obstructive, so I can only beg your pardon that the former English teacher part of me leapt into my fingers and started typing before I could corral and control it.
Zulfiya wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Oh, I don't even have to think about this one! War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy"Sarah, I am afraid I will not be able to accept your nomination because the novel was written in 1869, an..."
Somehow I have trouble wrapping my mind around the term "classic and 20th century." But I know, that's just me. I'll go back to my corner now and be silent before you send me to perdition.
(Can one be sent to perdition? Is perdition a place or state of mind such that one can be sent there? Why is my brain doing this to me today??)
Zulfiya wrote: "So you are ready to talk linguistic shop, right?! "The sea, the snotgreen sea, the scrotumtightening sea." It is coming! Ulysses by James Joyce"But we have you and your expertise to lead us though it! This may be the best chance any of us have to actually read the book and understand more than a miniscule percentage of it.
Sarah wrote: "THE GRAVEYARD BOOK? !?!?! Are two year olds voting now? Who could possibly think that was difficult?"Any book can be made difficult if the wrong teacher is teaching it. But I get your point.
Everyman wrote: "But we have you and your expertise to lead us though it! This may be the best chance any of us have to actually read the book and understand more than a miniscule percentage of it. "Thank you, Everyman, for your encouraging words. It is indeed a beautiful linguistic experiment, but I hope if this book is chosen, many people will find the discussion that ensues engaging.
The history of Ulysses per se is worth discussing for a couple of weeks because it is so fascinating, but it is indeed literary and linguistically demanding.
Lisa wrote: "Linda, I was in London when the 50 Shades chaos started. I was on the tube reading an ee cummings collection that my friend had leant me for the day. The lady next to me actually stated,'My dear, h..."Oh my goodness - too funny!! :D
I'm with Everyman and have a hard time with "20th century & classic", but that is probably my issue. :-) I'm up for anything, however, and will watch the nominations with anticipation. Instead of nominating in an area where I have no expertise and only a little knowledge, I'll leave the nominating to the rest of you capable people and vote when the poll is up!
Paula wrote: "I was going to nominate House of Leaves, but it missed the 20th century by three months."That one has been on my TBR list for awhile now, I didn't realize it was actually a chunkster!
Yes, there are a lot of great nominations here. I'm excited!!
Zulfiya wrote: "Everyman wrote: "But we have you and your expertise to lead us though it! This may be the best chance any of us have to actually read the book and understand more than a miniscule percentage of it...."Maybe we can do something at a later time, where we can read The Odyssey first and then Ulysses... Spend a good amount of time on both giving them the proper attention and time they deserve? IDK :)
Everyman, Cleo - I do hate being mean (actually, once in a while I do enjoy being mean, but not today), but to be fair, when you guys lived in the twentieth century, you read fiction written in the nineteenth century, it was O'K to call it classic, but now we are in the twenty first century, so I personally believe that we can call some books of the last century classical novels. Oh, yes, the form and the narrative structure changed a lot as well as many things in the fiction, but there were also times when a novel as a form did not exist - there were diaries, memoirs, epistolary books, sagas, long poems, etc. The novel itself as a literary form firmly established itself in the eighteenth century. Language and the form of its creative manifestation evolve all the time, so do the words like 'classic' and 'classical'.
Besides, we updated the definition of 'classic novel' seven or eight months ago, and this nomination exactly fits into this definition.
But I also understand that people love and respect the idea of tradition, so feel free to complain about my ideas every time I will do something modern.:-) I will deal with it as I respect you and your membership. I actually studied classical world literature extensively as a student, and I do love the classical books in their traditional sense, but I also think that some of the books of the twentieth century changed the way we think about life and literature.
Linda, maybe one day we will have the themed read 'Literary Horror' and some very good in-between genre books. House of Leaves is truly, truly phenomenal. It really challenged me, but in a good way, and I even had to use the mirror once to read this labyrinthine book. :-)
There are actually a lot of 20th century classics I want to read. I love Steinbeck, and I have books by D.H. Lawrence, Faulkner, and Hemingway that I want to read. That's just off the top of my head. I think modern classics are different from older classics, but they're is plenty of amazing writing out there. Plenty I want to read anyway. I often wonder what will be published in my lifetime that will end up a classic in 50 years.
Oh, and Zulfiya, like at all of those Americans I just listed! It's a miracle. ;)
Yep, this is exactly what I was going to comment on, but you took the words right out of of my mouth :-) Guys, my previous post was not snarky or irritable at all. The web does not convey the slightly mischievous but mostly friendly tone, so please bear with me as a moderator ... or step up and oust me :-)
Ooo I got Dhalgren right after reading Babel 17 by the same author way back in err...2000/2001. This could be the push I need to read it. Any of these look better than Outlander...
Ami wrote: "Zulfiya wrote: "Everyman wrote: "But we have you and your expertise to lead us though it! This may be the best chance any of us have to actually read the book and understand more than a miniscule p..."There is a Goodreads group which is reading The Odyssey right now and they will begin Ulysses on September 29. The group is called Odysseus to Ulysses.
Sara wrote: "Ooo I got Dhalgren right after reading Babel 17 by the same author way back in err...2000/2001. This could be the push I need to read it. Any of these look better than Outlander..."Dahlgren is a very trippy read...very 1960's.
Zulfiya wrote: "Everyman, Cleo - I do hate being mean (actually, once in a while I do enjoy being mean, but not today), but to be fair, when you guys lived in the twentieth century, you read fiction written in the nineteenth century, it was O'K to call it classic, but now we are in the twenty first century, so I personally believe that we can call some books of the last century classical novels. "Go ahead, be mean -- I was sort of mean to you earlier, so payback is only fair.
I actually do agree with you in part. I agree that some books of the 20th century have legitimately obtained the status of classics -- whether one uses a three generation rule, which is my informal rule (if the book has been of enduring value to three generations, it is fair to consider it, IMHO, for classic status). But the 20th century also includes books published in 1995, and to me I don't care how good the book is, it may be a legitimately fantastic book, but it hasn't spoken to enough generations yet to be a classic.
And I do wonder whether you would consider a book published in 1999 eligible today for consideration as a classic?
So I accept that I was partly right and partly wrong to object to the concept of a 20th century classic. But only partly wrong!!
Zulfiya wrote: "Guys, my previous post was not snarky or irritable at all. The web does not convey the slightly mischievous but mostly friendly tone,..."I more than forgive it, I revel in it. Because it allows me to be the same.
vbg!
Zulfiya wrote: "Everyman, Cleo - I do hate being mean (actually, once in a while I do enjoy being mean, but not today), but to be fair, when you guys lived in the twentieth century, you read fiction written in the..."Actually, my eye skipped right over that part of the category and went directly to "The Most Challenging Books of the Twentieth Century". This is going to be fun :D
Zulfiya wrote: "Everyman, Cleo - I do hate being mean (actually, once in a while I do enjoy being mean, but not today), but to be fair, when you guys lived in the twentieth century, you read fiction written in the..."Actually, my eye skipped right over that part of the category and went directly to "The Most Challenging Books of the Twentieth Century". This is going to be fun :D
Man, I love this group! You all make me smile.
I kind of like that three generation rule, Everyman.
Everyman wrote: "And I do wonder whether you would consider a book published in 1999 eligible today for consideration as a classic? ."I would call it a generational classic, but I am not sure that I would label it as a classic in the true meaning of the word.
On the other hand, time frame is not always the right criterion for this definition because many novels by Collins and Bulwer-Lytton are published as classic novels by such publishing houses as Penguin Classics, Wordsworth Classics, Oxford Classics, etc but in fact were and are sensational novels.
Paula, Dhalgen is definitely 'trippy' and 'zeitgeisty' , but I think it is its ultimate appeal - to explore the worlds we will never be able to fathom just because we will never be able to fathom :-)
Everyman wrote: "THE Most Challenging Book...", not "A Very Challenging Book...", and while there are other challenging books, realistically are there any that are MORE challenging than "The article 'THE' does underline the exclusivity of the object but does not limit it to one although the uniqueness and the oneness of the object is often implied, but maybe I am confusing BE and AE :-) Just sayin' and excuse my intentional elision:-)
Anyway, guys, I think this thread should be limited to nominations only, but if we want to campaign for our books and discuss their chances of being read, we should probably move to a new thread. I will open one tomorrow.
I'm also going to have to nominate Infinite Jest. The sheer amount of design, thought, and writing that David Foster Wallace had put into it is incredible. I've read it once this year, but I definitely intended to read it again this year so I can absorb more from this masterpiece.
I think these are all going to be too challenging for me, lol.
As things stand now, my motivation for reading a classic in these conditions is to learn. I can't see myself contributing much on my own. I'm willing to go with it just to see the ratings, and opinion people give, and therefore make me see clearer.
Good books are being nominated, guys!
Zulfiya wrote: "Good books are being nominated, guys!"I agree!
Luffy wrote: "As things stand now, my motivation for reading a classic in these conditions is to learn. I can't see myself contributing much on my own."I hear that a lot in classics groups, and I find it almost always wrong. I learn a great deal from people who don't think they have anything to contribute in the face of people who have been reading these books for decades. But in reality, the perspective of a new reader is often extremely valuable in bringing up points that I had overlooked even in a third or fourth reading of a book. And apparently simple questions asked by lurkers who venture out of hiding to ask about something they don't understand can often lead to very insightful discussions.
So I very much encourage those people who think they don't have much to contribute to realize that every perspective on a book broadens the understanding of all. By choosing to lurk rather than participate people are depriving the group of often very valuable input.
So loosen up those fingers and post!
I agree. I read book last month that had a very lively and excellent discussion because everyone was coming at it from a different angle. Different life experiences give us all a different perspective. I love hearing from As many people as possible. 10 people reading a book and 2 discussing is rather boring.
Everyman wrote: "But in reality, the perspective of a new reader is often extremely valuable in bringing up points that I had overlooked even in a third or fourth reading of a book. And apparently simple questions asked by lurkers who venture out of hiding to ask about something they don't understand can often lead to very insightful discussions. "Spot on!
After my failure to keep up with Don Quixote, I had planned on being conservative and sitting this one out...but...Dahlgren...Infinite Jest...so tempting...:)
John wrote: "After my failure to keep up with Don Quixote, I had planned on being conservative and sitting this one out...but...Dahlgren...Infinite Jest...so tempting...:)"Yeah, you can't sit out a read with nominations like these. I wouldn't even try, John.
@Everyman and Sarah, thanks for this encouragement.
I'm reading Dahlgren whether it wins or not! It looks fabulous.
Reading the Chunksters
Books mentioned in this topic
Kristin Lavransdatter (other topics)Kristin Lavransdatter (other topics)
Doctor Zhivago (other topics)
Doctor Zhivago (other topics)
Ulysses (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Doris Lessing (other topics)James Joyce (other topics)
Samuel R. Delany (other topics)
David Foster Wallace (other topics)
Ayn Rand (other topics)
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