ToS: Sell it to me

[John (Taloni)]

I started the second book. I'd say the writing is "uneven," but in a good way. The parts with Hadrian and Royce are extremely well done. The author got a lot better since the first book. Meanwhile the sections with Arista are fairly tedious, representing a by the numbers expository segment. I am thinking the hamhanded introduction of the lurking conspiracy, now bigger and nastier with 20% more volume! is going to feed more interesting plot points later on.

But anyhoo, this book isn't a chore to read. I'm not hate-skimming like I did book 4 of Wheel of Time, or gritting my teeth to the end like the Annihilation trilogy.

[Rob, Roberator]

John (Taloni) wrote: "Meanwhile the sections with Arista are fairly tedious, representing a by the numbers expository segment."

He gets way better at writing Arista in the later books if you end up sticking with the series. I didn't like her much in this volume, but liked her a lot by the end of the series.

[Tassie Dave, S&L Historian]

Cup wrote: "Glad folks are enjoying this one and I'm looking forward to the next pick!."

Which Tom has already chosen.

I have a hunch he is going to pity pick The Martian Chronicles

We need to read some Bradbury and it is a 5 time poll loser.

[David H.]

Just like with the Chicago Cubs winning the World Series*, the tradition will be ruined if we actually read Bradbury, and we can't have that, can we?

*I'm a Cards fan.

[William]

Ruth, I know some people have already said some of the things I am going to say, but I wanted to share a bit of insight I have as a fan of the series.

My three favorite fantasy writers working today are N. K. Jemisin, Brandon Sanderson, and Michael J Sullivan. I love them for three different reasons, and I cannot say which is my favorite.

Disclosing personal bias, I am dyslexic, and I first heard about Michael J. Sullivan because I was part of an audiobook club full of dyslexics and one of the members of the group mentioned he wrote the book trying to create a story his daughter would want to connect to. I read The Crown Conspiracy and have been reading his books ever since. I have even been a backer on a few of his Kickstarters.

When I read Brandon Sanderson or N.K. Jemisin I read the books for the world building. Brandon Sanderson spends pages and pages creating each world that you visit, and N.K. Jesmin creates different worlds that reflect back parts of our world.

Michael J.Sullivan is not really a world builder. He writes character studies. I had a chance to be part of an AMA with him, and he admits that The Crown Conspiracy is the worst book in his series, because what he is doing is telling a fun story that introduces you to the characters. In the next book he peels back the layers and lets you see the characters even more. Reading his stories is not about the world, the magic, or the adventures they go on. It's getting a chance to explore the five main characters in the series and watching their Arcs over a six book series. He wrote the books in the style of an eposodic television show. The first book is meant to be really the pilot, where you are like okay here are your stars, and then you get to keep going.

That type of writing is not everyone's cup of tea. If you want to give Michael J Sullivan another shot, because this book isn't for you, his Legends of the First Empire Series is his better-written series. However, both are character studies first, before they are world build stories.

[Rick]

Rob wrote: "Rick, please put your analysis of book 2 in spoilers..you may have tried to keep it vague, but I think you get into too much detail.

If I hadn't read it already, I'd have felt like you were spoili..."

Done. It's the first couple of chapters so I didn't think it was a big deal but better safe etc

[Rick]

Ruth wrote: "Tbh based on this description I suspect I might have a similar reaction - I really dislike sexual violence (or the threat of it) used casually as a plot device, and so I think I'm best advised to quit while I'm ahead and not venture into Avempartha.
..."

It's not really used as a plot device, she's not actually raped and it's about half a page. I'm actually with you - I think sexual violence is used FAR too often to give female characters a traumatic background especially by male authors but this is really very minimal (in fact it's SO minimal that I kind of wonder why it's there...)

Again, all of this happens in 2 chapters. Unless it's very triggering for you, I'd simple read it and form your own opinion. And I'm going to spoil this right now... There's never any talk of selling Thrace again. Anyone forming their opinion of the book on this is simply giving themselves the wrong impression.

Bourke's review (link above) is so over the top that it's comical.

[Rob, Roberator]

Rick wrote: "Done. It's the first couple of chapters so I didn't think it was a big deal but better safe etc."

Thanks!

[Melani]

Rick wrote: "Ruth wrote: "Tbh based on this description I suspect I might have a similar reaction - I really dislike sexual violence (or the threat of it) used casually as a plot device, and so I think I'm best..."
I haven't started the book so I don't have skin in the game yet (though I really did enjoy the first two books in his prequel series). That said, Rick you are getting very close to telling Ruth that her experience with the book is invalid because it doesn't match yours. It doesn't matter that she is only judging on the first two chapters, and it doesn't matter that selling the character doesn't come up again, and it REALLY doesn't matter that rape is only threatened. Ruth gets to decide that those things are enough to put her off the book.

[Rick]

Melani wrote: "That said, Rick you are getting very close to telling Ruth that her experience with the book is invalid because it doesn't match yours...."

Not at all and you misread both her and I. Contrary to what you claim, ("It doesn't matter that she is only judging on the first two chapters,") Ruth's not read the first two chapters where this passage is (or hadn't when the exchange took place) so I'm saying she should read those and experience it for herself so she can judge the scene since it is only the first 2 chapters (unless, as I said, such things are triggering for her).

She may fly past it and like the rest of the book or toss it across the room - either's fine, of course, since it's her opinion. But until she does that she doesn't have an experience of this part of the book so she can't judge it one way or the other.

The reason I mentioned that there was no actual sexual violence and that the passage as short was informational... to let her and others know that this isn't one of those instance where it's drawn out for pages.

You misread what both she and I said - try better next time. I don't mind being challenged on what I say; I really dislike it when you don't take the time to read what I say and put words in my mouth, though.

[Iain]

I have just reached the finish of the second book and have reserved the second Omnibus Rise of Empire at the library.

The second book has much better pacing than the first and the secondary characters are more rounded. Unfortunately the world building restricts the roles that women can take. I see no reason for fantasy written in the 21st century to be set in a medieval European style setting. Especially if this was written specifically for a daughter.

I was struck by the smallness of the world. A handful of small kingdoms that you can ride between in a week or so (at 30 miles a day). Strikes me as an area not too different from England (with four different races crammed in).

The one thing that has really been bugging me is the fact that things have gotten worse. technology goes backwards, things fall apart. I am sick to death of golden ages. This is a pernicious idea that is helping to ruin the UK at the moment and it is a major plot line in far too many fantasies.

[Christopher]

Rick, if you find that people are often misreading what you say, you might want to take a good look at what you’re saying and how you’re saying it, because the problem might not be with everyone else.