The Sword and Laser discussion
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The Calculating Stars
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TCS: Elma and Nathaniel
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I also like how Elma was a strong character with her own hopes and dreams, but at the same time enjoyed being "Mrs. Nathaniel York" as well.
Direct parallels with Supreme Court Justice Ruth Badger Ginsburg and her husband. Same era, too, so it’s not like it’s an anachronistic analogy.
Dara wrote: "In the "TCS: Is it just me, or does this pick feel like Veronica is missing vaginal fantasy?" thread, Scott said "..Mary Robinette has said on podcasts and in interviews, she likes portraying happi..."If you're interested, here's one place where she mentions writing happily married couples, and I know she's mentioned it on "Writing Excuses." http://www.readaromancemonth.com/2013...
But, I agree with Dara and Shad. Their relationship is one of my favorite things about the book, and honestly I'd say the same for (view spoiler) (for Book 1) from her Glamourist Histories series. It feels so organic and realistic. They're totally in love with each other but it isn't one of those fairy tale, everything is perfect romances, and both Elma and Nathaniel remained their own people throughout.
Trike wrote: "Direct parallels with Supreme Court Justice Ruth Badger Ginsburg and her husband. Same era, too, so it’s not like it’s an anachronistic analogy."I didn't even think about that. Totally spot on! +5 points to Trike.
Scott wrote: "But, I agree with Dara and Shad. Their relationship is one of my favorite things about the book, and honestly I'd say the same for [Jane and Vincent (hide spoiler)] (for Book 1) from her Glamourist Histories series. It feels so organic and realistic. They're totally in love with each other but it isn't one of those fairy tale, everything is perfect romances, and both Elma and Nathaniel remained their own people throughout."
I have the first book in the series but still haven't read it. I'm going to have to soon.
I just noticed it autocorrected “Bader” to “Badger” and I don’t think it’s wrong. 😂
I really liked the scene where Nathaniel is venting about being told to "control" his wife. I thought it pretty well depicted what can happen in a happy marriage where he was complaining about it to her, but hadn't thought out how she would take it. I have certainly done that before myself. I did like that he did realize that she was taking it personally and reassured her that he supported her and that she did nothing wrong.
I like that while being supportive, he still gives her the space to solve her issues with Parker (for example), in her own way
That's another relationship I really like, Elma and Parker. He's such great foil for her. He's such a bastard about things and he's so unlikable but at the same time, I kind of get it? I dunno, it's hard to explain.
Dara wrote: "That's another relationship I really like, Elma and Parker. He's such great foil for her. He's such a bastard about things and he's so unlikable but at the same time, I kind of get it? I dunno, it'..."And has his moments where he is a decent human being as well.
I really liked the scene where Nathaniel is venting about being told to "control" his wife.Man, that hit home, since it's actually happened to me. It was probably five years ago, a friend-of-a-friend was being a real jerk, and my wife told him off for it. He pulled me, her husband, outside to lecture me with that exact phrase: "Control your wife."
We, uh, didn't stay friends with that guy.
It did feel a bit too perfect and unrealistic in The Calculating Stars for me, but I really liked the evolution of their relationship in The Fated Sky (actually, though I loved The Calculating Stars, I thought The Fated Sky was even better).
LouLouReads wrote: "It did feel a bit too perfect and unrealistic in The Calculating Stars for me, but I really liked the evolution of their relationship in The Fated Sky (actually, though I loved The Calculating Star..."This, 100% this. On both relationships (Elma & Nathaniel and Elma & Parker).
Dara wrote: "That's another relationship I really like, Elma and Parker. He's such great foil for her. He's such a bastard about things and he's so unlikable but at the same time, I kind of get it?"I totally agree. As much as I love Elma and Nathaniel and a whole host of other characters (I really love this book) I find that it is Parker that most draws me to picking the book back up, even when I should be doing other things. It's weird, because I would use so many bad words to describe him, but I think he's my favourite character. Such a well constructed antagonist.
Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth wrote: "I totally agree. As much as I love Elma and Nathaniel and a whole host of other characters (I really love this book) I find that it is Parker that most draws me to picking the book back up, even when I should be doing other things. It's weird, because I would use so many bad words to describe him, but I think he's my favourite character. Such a well constructed antagonist."Exactly and that relationship is explored further in The Fated Sky. I was yelling at my book to Elma many times in that one. She can be particularly dense and Parker knows exactly what buttons to push to irritate/motivate her.
I love Elma and Nathaniel’s relationship- even (especially) their love scenes where they make cheesy come-ons at each other.It makes me realise how rare it is to see happily married couples portrayed in fiction.
I find it refreshing but possibly unrealistic that the subject of children doesn't seem to come up. I mean god, I got married in 2000 and endured 19 years (so far) of questions about when I would have babies. It doesn't seem to come up in this circle?But it's refreshing in that she isn't written as having a guilt complex about it.
I do like the silly parts of their relationship, the inside jokes, with and without innuendo. That's pretty true to life.
I also like that while he clearly cares about her through the anxiety stuff and wraps his arms around her during panic attacks, he never tries to FIX it. Nathaniel is a modern man!
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I am only in the early couple of chapters of it.
I think it's kind of natural that children haven't been brought up in TCS. Both Nathaniel and Elma are focused on their respective roles in solving the literal existential crisis.Like Tassie Dave said, children are mentioned in the sequel, and given the time lapse between the initial crisis of TCS and where civilization is at in TFS, I think it makes more sense that children are mentioned at that point.
I can't think of any other books where the main character is in a healthy relationship and that SO is front and center in the story offering support . This may be my new wheelhouse.
Richard wrote: "I can't think of any other books where the main character is in a healthy relationship and that SO is front and center in the story offering support . This may be my new wheelhouse."Right. I'm so used to deceitful spouses, scheming parents, etc that it feels refreshing to find a family that functions basically as it should. Despite their inherent baggage, most families manage to lend some measure of support to each other, and it's only realistic that once in a while you'd get a book where that was the case.
Elma and Nathaniel's relationship was great, just perhaps a little TOO perfect (sometimes it seemed like they were reading from a pamphlet about effective communication), and I think maybe two fade-to-black love scenes preceded by cheesy innuendo would have been sufficient, instead of repeating the same jokes over and over again.Confirmed rocket launch is go.
This thread keeps popping up in my notifications, and I keep asking myself, "Wait, do I know an Elma?"
I think there are plenty of healthy relationships in fiction... You just don't remember them. In HP the Weasleys seem to have a pretty good relationship (even the Malfoys and Dursleys treat each other with respect even if they respect no one else).
Ninefox Gambit had a mix of healthy and unhealthy relationships of every kind.
Lovecraft County had some great married couples.
Jade City... check...
OK, Circe and Nights Master ... mumble mumble...
So, not so unusual.
It's one of my favorite things about this book. Nathaniel is such a supportive husband. He always puts Elma first and pushes her to achieve her dreams. It would have been too easy to make their relationship more "traditional" when one thinks of marriage in the the 1950s. I'm really glad Kowal showed a happy marriage where support and love was the priority in their relationship.