SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
What Else Are You Reading?
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Ursula Le Guin year-long reading challenge
Diane wrote: "I just pre-ordered the book, Kaa! Looking forward to it! I also have an old edition of Always Coming Home, complete with a cassette tape of the music. 😊"I have that edition, too, Diane! Somewhere. I know I didn't get rid of it but couldn't find it, so I got another copy published by U of CA Press which didn't include the recording. There's a moiré effect on all the text which is quite visible. It won't ruin the book when I get into it but on first blush it was disappointing. :(
i've read the second book of earthsea - first timeI like how Ged enters the story mid-way.
Okay, wow. I just finished two books of interviews with Le Guin (Conversations with Ursula K. Le Guin and Ursula K. Le Guin: The Last Interview: and Other Conversations) and I actually found them really powerful. I picked them up mostly as a change of pace from Always Coming Home, but I was surprised at how much of a difference it was to read transcripts or descriptions of her conversations with other people, compared to her nonfiction essays (even on the same topic). Both books were very well curated, with only one overlapping essay between them, and enough variety in the interviews that despite some repetition I was never bored. As ever, she has a lot to say about genre and "literature", but the parts about writing that I liked best were her more specific comments on her own work. Both editors chose to arrange the interviews chronologically, which allowed the reader to follow the evolution of her thinking about politics and feminism. She also offered at several points her own reflections on how her consciousness had changed over time, and how she saw this as affecting her writing.
There is also quite about both Le Guin as a person, including her family history and personal life over the years, which I found interesting. As someone who's lived in Portland for pretty much all of my adult life, I also enjoyed reading about the city through the lens of her life.
Kaa wrote: "Okay, wow. I just finished two books of interviews with Le Guin (Conversations with Ursula K. Le Guin and [book:Ursula K. Le Guin: The Last Interview: and Other Conversations|4261008..."This post has me convinced. Thank you! I now really want to read both these books.
Travis wrote: "Kaa wrote: "Okay, wow. I just finished two books of interviews with Le Guin (Conversations with Ursula K. Le Guin and [book:Ursula K. Le Guin: The Last Interview: and Other Conversat..."Yes, I absolutely recommend them both! If you're only going to read one, though, go with Last Interview. It covers a broader time range and visually is a more pleasant book to read.
I got a copy of Always Coming Home: Author's Expanded Edition from the library last week, but I haven't had the concentration to spend much time on it yet. I hope to dig into it for real this weekend. (I also want to note that the LoA edition uses incredibly thin paper - the book is over 800 pages but is thinner than some books I own that are less than 400 pages.)In the meantime, I picked up a Blue Moon Over Thurman Street, Wild Angels, Incredible Good Fortune: New Poems, Going Out with Peacocks and Other Poems, Finding My Elegy: New and Selected Poems to try Le Guin's non-sff poetry. I think I'm going to try to go walk up and down Thurman Street while I still have the book to see what it looks like now, more than 30 years later.
I decided to tag along on the Hainish Cycle books, having wanted to read them in "order" and having noticed that you were doing the same. Oh, and many are readily available on my library's hoopla subscription.I finished Rocannon's World last week. Very Norton-esque feel to it, with the mixed fantasy/SF modes, and the somewhat surprising ending.
I might join in for The Left Hand of Darkness on April 8th.I had Always Coming Home checked out but could not get into it, maybe I will try again later.
I am currently on week 5, I believe, of trying to read ACH. I am going to get through it eventually, but it's taking a lot longer than I expected.On the other hand, I'm very excited to start the Hainish books. I have a couple other things I want to finish first, but Rocannon's World is going to be the next novel I pick up.
Hi. New here. I am a long time fan but recently have only read Tehanu and The Other Wind. While ACH is too heavy for me, I will be starting on Rocannon's World and enjoying the discussion.
Kaa wrote: "I am currently on week 5, I believe, of trying to read ACH. I am going to get through it eventually, but it's taking a lot longer than I expected.On the other hand, I'm very excited to start the ..."
OK, I was going to download Planet of Exile this weekend, but I will wait a bit longer. Which is cool, because I have 27 hours of Gardens of the Moon by Erikson to get through sometime.
I, too, had trouble with ACH the first time I read it, about 20 years ago. I found the actual stories much more fun back then, but I have a lot more practice with reading poetry now than I did, so a reread should be much more enjoyable. Also, there some of the music available toListen to on YOuTube (search “Music and Poetry of the Kesh”).
Also a relative newbie here, at least new to posting. I’ve been lurking since last fall. It’s because of this group that I picked up any UKLG at all and she is quickly becoming one of my favorite authors. In the past month or so I’ve read Wizard of Earthsea, Word for World is Forest, Left Hand of Darkness, Planet of Exile, Dispossessed and Lathe of Heaven. I’ve loved all of them. There are so many profound ideas encapsulated in such elegant writing and I find I want to discuss them with others. I’m getting Rocannon’s World and City of Illusion from the library this afternoon and can’t wait to dive into the books and discussion for all things Hainish.
She’s like a revelation, eh, Leslie? Glad you’re enjoying discovering her.
Welcome, Lesley! I agree, Le Guin is definitely a writer it's nice to be able to discuss with others.I ended up starting Rocannon last night instead of working on Frankenstein. I agree on the mixed sci-fi/fantasy feel, which seems to me to be very common in SF from the era. I can definitely already see a lot of the themes that are common throughout Le Guin's work beginning to emerge here.
(Trivia: the word "ansible" was coined in this book.)
Michele wrote: "Kalpa Imperial: The Greatest Empire That Never Was is fabulous - hope that gets on your schedule."I hope so too! I am reading her translation of the Tao Te Ching soon, because it seems to have been so significant in her writing, but I don't know if I'll make it to any of her other translations. Selected Poems of Gabriela Mistral is the other I'd love to read.
I didn't know she'd done a translation of the TTC. Will have to track down a copy.
Michele wrote: "I didn't know she'd done a translation of the TTC. Will have to track down a copy."
Rocannon's World was an interesting read for me - as I mentioned above, you can start to see some of Le Guin's common themes around technology and interactions between cultures showing up toward the beginning. The story overall, though, has a very classic fantasy feel - Le Guin has said it was very heavily based in Norse mythology, and you can certainly feel that.Another comment that she has made about this book that I agree with (in the intro to the 1977 edition, which I read after reading the novel) is to observe how timid some of her world-building is, especially in terms of the hierarchical relationships and male domination. I noted this as well, especially in contrast to her later writing that implicitly and explicitly challenges the expectations of hierarchy and patriarchy.
Kaa wrote: "Another comment that she has made about this book that I agree with is to observe how timid some of her world-building is, especially in terms of the hierarchical relationships and male domination.”Thanks for sharing that! It definitely provides more context. I chalked it up to the fact that it was her first foray into this universe and she hadn't fully realized it yet, not necessarily that she felt it wouldn't be accepted.
I also found this to be an interesting read. I agree with the earlier comments that there was a much stronger fantasy element in this book than subsequent ones, so much so that during the prologue I thought I had misktakenly opened a different book on my Kindle. I do love how in the end she ties everything together, even the prologue that felt out of place initially, and leaves me with questions to ponder about the stories we tell about ourselves and our society and the many layers therein.
Lesley wrote: "It definitely provides more context. I chalked it up to the fact that it was her first foray into this universe and she hadn't fully realized it yet, not necessarily that she felt it wouldn't be accepted."I got the sense that she was talking timid in terms of uncertainty about her own abilities - like, she wasn't yet sure that she could invent a world that was more fully her own.
And I completely agree about how she leaves the reader with questions. The role and function of stories is a very common theme of hers (in both her fiction and nonfiction), and one that I love a lot because it fascinates me too.
Kaa wrote: "The role and function of stories is a very common theme of hers (in both her fiction and nonfiction), and one that I love a lot because it fascinates me too. "Stories and language, yes! I'm thinking of the Earthsea books: knowing a thing's true name gives you power over it, and the fact that the dragons speak the true language, the oldest one of all.
Broke down and listened to Planet of Exile last weekend and into Tuesday (I think). I preferred Rocannon's World, but I'm not sure it was a fair comparison, as my brain was distracted -- on autopilot for an audiobook.Probably a short break before I get to City of Illusions -- I'm out of audiobook credits at hoopla until 01 April. No foolin'!
Mike wrote: "Broke down and listened to Planet of Exile last weekend and into Tuesday (I think). I preferred Rocannon's WorldPlanet of Exile is my least favorite of her books I’ve read so far, which is not saying a whole lot because I still gave it a 4 star rating. I think my reaction was partly because of the portrayal of stereotypical gender roles and then partly because the plot seemed thin. The world building was great and I have heard that City of Illusion is sort of a continuation of this story, so I’m looking forward to jumping into that one next.
Lesley wrote: "Mike wrote: "Broke down and listened to Planet of Exile last weekend and into Tuesday (I think). I preferred Rocannon's WorldPlanet of Exile is my least favorite o..."
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's having a harder time with Planet of Exile. The gender politics are really not very good in this book, even compared Rocannon's World, which wasn't awesome on that front. I think I'll probably continue directly into City of Illusion when I finish this.
FYI the Lady Vaults Book Club is reading Kalpa Imperial in April, in case someone is looking for more reading buddies for that one.I randomly decided to start Rocannon+Exile+Illusions today, and noticed that I'm pretty much right on schedule! :D They're so short that I'll probably fly through them. I'm not expecting much, but I want to to eventually read all of UKLG anyway.
Looking forward to hearing what you think, Anna! They are definitely books that it's easy to breeze through. Even though neither Rocannon or Exile was a great story in their own rights, I thought they were both worth reading just for the insight they offer into Le Guin's early writing and her development over time. I'm a couple of chapters into City of Illusions now and so far I'm enjoying it more than the other two.
Kaa wrote: "Even though neither Rocannon or Exile was a great story in their own rights, I thought they were both worth reading just for the insight they offer into Le Guin's early writing and her development over time."Agreed, although I'm still in the very early stages of Exile. It helps going in with realistic expectations. I didn't think I'd be reading Left Hand, so I'm so far enjoying this ride for what it is. Good to hear it gets better!
Kaa wrote: “I'm a couple of chapters into City of Illusions now and so far I'm enjoying it more than the other two"I enjoyed City of Illusion much more than the previous two. Not sure if these are really spoilers, but hiding just in case: (view spoiler)
The Library of America has published Always Coming Home (an expanded version too) and its on sale! https://www.loa.org/books/596-always-... Use the coupon SPRING2019 and get an additional 20% (also off any books).
Thanks, Diane!Lesley, I agree, City of Illusion was so much better than the other two. You can really feel Le Guin starting to figure herself out as a writer, and this was the first book out of the three where I thought the plot was truly creative and interesting. (view spoiler)
I think my one big complaint is that she is still a bit stuck as far as gender roles - (view spoiler)
Anna: I was starting to get premonitions of Left Hand from (general events of City of Illusions; not super spoilery) (view spoiler)
I also noticed some Left Hand and Earthsea feels reading these! I listened to the audiobooks, so I couldn't stop to annotate, but there were some quotes that could've been from those later books.I seem to have liked Planet of Exile more than most other people did. It could be the audiobook narration in part, although I didn't have problems with the narration of the other books either.
I started Rocannon's World last night. As the story developed, I got into it more so I think I will like it...
@Kaa Agree about the handling of gender. (view spoiler)@Anna I have a much greater appreciation of Exile after reading Illusion, (view spoiler)
@Maggie Rocannon started off slow for me too. I think the story gets more entertaining as the group begins their journey.
@Lesley: Yes, I agree! You can definitely start to see Le Guin thinking more about gender in Illusions, although she clearly still has a long way to go. I also really agree about Illusions increasing my appreciate of Exile - I ended up giving Exile an additional star after finishing Illusions.
Diane wrote: "The Library of America has published Always Coming Home (an expanded version too) and its on sale! https://www.loa.org/books/596-always-... Use the coupon SPRING201..."There's a really nice overview of the contents of the LOA edition here: https://www.tor.com/2019/03/15/book-r...
The big illustrated edition of Earthsea was perfectly timed for a holiday wishlist, and this one's perfectly timed for my birthday. Lucky!
I'm taking a quick break from the Hainish series to read the Tao Te Ching next week. It turns out this is perfect timing - the Tao Te Ching is book they all keep talking about in City of Illusions! I didn't do it on purpose, since I had no idea it would show up in Illusions at all, but I like the connection.If there's anyone who is following along with the Hainish series, note that I am skipping The Word for World is Forest, since I read it late last year. It comes between Left Hand and the Dispossessed in the series order.
Well, I am in for Left Hand in April, and I hope to fit in the LeGuin version of the Tao Te Ching at some point (not next week, I have too much else to read).I am undecided about The Word for World is Forest. Maybe later...
Kaa wrote: "...If there's anyone who is following along with the Hainish series, note that I am skipping The Word for World is Forest, since I read it late last year. It comes between Left Hand and the Dispossessed in the series order. "I am indeed trying to keep up with you on the Hainish "Cycle" but you set a pretty tough pace! I'll start City of Illusions tomorrow when I can have another five hoopla items available.
Then after The Left Hand of Darkness and Winter's King, I'll skip The Word for World is Forest, The Dispossessed, and The Day Before the Revolution, since like you I just read those recently as well.
Kaa wrote: "Thanks, Diane!Lesley, I agree, City of Illusion was so much better than the other two. You can really feel Le Guin starting to figure herself out as a writer, and this was the first book out of the three where I thought the plot was truly creative and interesting.
I think my one big complaint is that she is still a bit stuck as far as gender roles..."
Your post got me thinking. At the time Ms. Le Guin wrote these, writers got recognized for their talent by getting sold, and SF in the late 60s was just breaking out of stereotypical (gender) roles and the male-dominated market. So, yes, fifty years later we've come to expect both the world and Ms. Le Guin to be
I think there is another cause for the traditional gender roles in these three books. Most all the societies are survival societies, not a lot of resources left after the basics needs are met and not a lot of room for variation from a women-make-babies-so-no-freedoms-for-you model. I'm glad Earth has become rich enough to move toward gender equality, and that Ms. Le Guin started teaching us, don't get me wrong!
Thanks for the brief soapbox!
Finished City of Illusions yesterday, and liked the storyline. Had similar reservations as you (Kaa) did - (view spoiler)
@Mike: Hah, yeah, it's been tough for me to keep up with the goals I set for myself, especially since I want to read other things as well. Yeah, I definitely agree that things were very different when these first three books were written. I note the treatment of gender because it affects my enjoyment of the books, not because I don't understand where it's coming from. In some ways, I actually really appreciate how different things are in these books, because I think it's cool to be able to watch how Le Guin changed as a writer and as a thinker over the years. In interviews, she said that she didn't actually begin to become involved with feminism as a movement until the 70s, after the writing of Left Hand.
I dunno, I disagree that survival-level societies by necessity have to adopt super strict gender roles - or at least not gender roles that map so closely onto the ones that have been handed down to us as traditional in Western Christian societies. A Word For World Is Forest, for instance, has some pretty set gender roles but in a very different way than these worlds.
Either way, though, I think it's a fascinating topic to discuss, and definitely one that Le Guin thought about a lot over the years.
I'm planning to join in for the discussion of The Dispossessed starting in a couple of days. This is one of those that people talk about ALL THE TIME but I've never read. Really, really looking forward to it!
Travis wrote: "I'm planning to join in for the discussion of The Dispossessed starting in a couple of days. This is one of those that people talk about ALL THE TIME but I've never read. Really, really looking for..."Yayyyyy! This is one of my favorite books ever, so I'm very excited for you to get to read it!
I know this week is supposedly Left Hand, but I probably won't get to it until next week. Le Guin's translation (or, as she more accurately terms it, interpretation) of the Tao Te Ching was a great read - I'm only familiar in passing with Taoism, so it was interesting to learn more as well as to gain additional insight into UKL's philosophical influences. It's clear that Taoism had a huge impact on her work, and her interpretation and notes were especially revealing.
I think reading the Tao Te Ching has made me a little more prepared to take on Always Coming Home, as well, so I'm going to try to return to that soon.
I have started The Left Hand of Darkness and my library copy is due Apr 28. I will continue with it sometime next week.I have placed a library hold on Lao Tzu: Tao Te Ching: A Book about the Way and the Power of the Way.
Kaa wrote: "I know this week is supposedly Left Hand, but I probably won't get to it until next week..."Thank you thank you thank you! I'm only about a quarter of the way through.
Don't listen to the BBC audio dramatization -- I missed so much of the narrator's exposition, and the shifting POV between chapters!
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Lathe of Heaven (other topics)The Birthday of the World and Other Stories (other topics)
The Word for World Is Forest (other topics)
The Unreal and the Real: Selected Stories, Volume Two: Outer Space, Inner Lands (other topics)
The Unreal and the Real: Selected Stories, Volume One: Where on Earth (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Kelly Link (other topics)Federico García Lorca (other topics)
Steven Erikson (other topics)
Grace L. Dillon (other topics)
I've been slowly working through my version of Always Coming Home, but I'm still waiting on the expanded edition from my library, so today I'm starting reading some interviews from Conversations with Ursula K. Le Guin and Ursula K. Le Guin: The Last Interview: and Other Conversations. (Edit: Decided to take out Ursula K. Le Guin: Conversations on Writing, as the format is very different than the other two. May return to it later.)