Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
II. Publishing & Marketing Tips
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I Scratch Your Back...
I have no problem with book swaps for reviews. I have did it a few times and it worked out well. I try to be as honest as I can be. Luckily I've not had a book that I disliked so I didn't have to give a poor score. I think if that were to happen I would notify the author before I posted it.
I totally agree with you Martyn. I only review books I want to read, and only after the book totally grabbed me and I got something out from it.
I guess my thing is I want to support other writers. It is a hard business and as I said I haven't read a book yet that I did not like.
I guess as they say, to each his own. I respectfully disagree with you because what I have to say should not be any less important than what anyone else has to say. I'm honest and I'm open and above board about what I do or say.
I have reviewed other authors who have reviewed my books. I work in a small genre, so it's pretty much unavoidable unless I stopped reviewing all together. Less than I used to, because I have become more cautious about reviewing in my genre for that and other reasons.For the most part, I turn down even what I think are genuine, rather than strictly reciprocal, offers from other writers to review my work. Even with the best of intentions on both sides, it's hard to avoid the appearance of collusion, and just too many things can go wrong.
When I turn them down, to answer the original question, I thank them and explain that I find it easiest to avoid accepting review offers altogether (there are a couple of people I trust to skewer my books if they don't like them, but I don't usually get into that in detail). I sometimes offer a free copy. Martyn, I know you're pretty generous with those, and I swear I'll finish your book someday. I'm even less of a suspense reader than I thought I was.
BTW, whatever your policy on accepting a free copy to review is, when you write a review for a book received as a freebie you MUST acknowledge this. It's an FTC regulation.
Shirley wrote: "I have no problem with book swaps for reviews. I have did it a few times and it worked out well. I try to be as honest as I can be. Luckily I've not had a book that I disliked so I didn't have to ..."I don't judge those who do 'swap', although I have a problem with the reciprocal part. Anyone can read my books and review them, or not review them, as they see fit. If someone request a free review copy, I expect a review (not that I can do much about it if someone doesn't review the free review copy), but I've had review swap request from people who don't write the kind of books I read. I don't review fantasy, YA, NA, LGBT, because I'm not the intended audience for these books.
Someone offered me their book. I read the Amazon sample, found it lacking a professional standard. So I told the author that I wasn't interested in her book, which I considered 'prematurely published'.
She begged me to read her book and give her feedback, because my feedback was the first honest feedback she'd received.
I referred her to the many online critique circles and writer's groups where she can swap critiques and learn why her book was lacking.
That doesn't mean I won't review books written by people who reviewed me. I've reviewed Henry Martin's book and I think he reviewed one of my short stories. However, my opinion of his book wasn't influenced by whatever he wrote about my work.
A Romance novelist, Roberta Pearce, is a huge fan of my work and she reviewed all my books. I'm not 'into Romance novels', but my interest was piqued enough to sample her work. And although I was not the intended audience, I did enjoy the stories, so I reviewed them.
However, I did write an intro where I asserted not to be a Romance reader, so that people who read my reviews know where I'm coming from and that Romance authors cannot pave my path with their novels hoping I will review their work.
I'm smart enough to see when a review has been written to kiss ass, and when someone genuinely liked and respected another author's work. Authors reviewing each other is not immediately a red flag for me, but I can't appreciate the author/reviewers who join in the Circle Jerk Reviews.
You can scratch my back, but perhaps I will flog yours. Or I won't do anything at all.
It's been said before, but I'll say it again. Reviews are for prospective readers, not authors. Beyond that, reviews should support good authors, winnow out the bad ones, no matter how much you may want to support indies. I never buy, sell, or trade reviews, and as a result the reviews of my books are honest (as far as I can tell)--no 5-star reviews, but no 1-star reviews either (so far). Always be leery of 5-stars reviews on the book of a new author; they could be true, but most likely they're not.
"BTW, whatever your policy on accepting a free copy to review is, when you write a review for a book received as a freebie you MUST acknowledge this. It's an FTC regulation."The way I understand it, FTC Guidelines exist to protect consumers from fraudulent business practices that pertain to advertising claims and endorsements (by publishers, bloggers, paid reviewers, etc.). A consumer that gives an opinion about a book they’ve read is not breaking the law (which the Guidelines are not BTW) by not stating where/how they procured said book. (I don’t even remember how I received most of my books by the time I get to them!)
I’m pretty sure the key phrase is “advertising claims”, but please correct me if I’m wrong.
I can recommend two goodreads groups that provide authors with the opportunity to give/receive book reviews in a process that is moderated and avoids conflict of interest.Review Group: https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...
The Source:
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...
I've not had a review swap offer, but if an author reads my work and reviews it, I will be curious and will read one of their books. I enjoy most genre's so will read nearly everything. If I review another authors work, I do not expect them to review mine in return.My book reviews are my honest opinions and are based on how much I enjoyed the book and what feelings it gave me at the time of reading. If I received a book for free (such as with the Goodreads, firstreads programme)I will state it at the start of the review.
If a review swap was arranged between two authors, then it should be stated in the subsequent reviews. It is like radio stations and TV shows having to state before hand that they are getting a financial or service benefit from a company/organisation before they spruik for them.
-HMC
Reviews should always be honest. Full stop! I have very catholic taste and will read many things. I don't generally read books I am not interested in and I don't review everything I read but just because someone is a fellow author who might read my work does not mean I won't review their book. If it looks interesting, I will read and I usually review unless desperately short of time (which reminds me, Martyn, that you are definitely on my to read list. Now I have figured out how to transfer things to my Kindle that is). I don't usually do reciprocal reviews, but if the book interests me enough I might. If a review is honest, why not? Surely authors have as much right to review as any other GR member? To be honest I find genuine and honest author reviews are often the most detailed and informative. The reviews we REALLY NEED to lose are the bought reviews!
Rion wrote: ""BTW, whatever your policy on accepting a free copy to review is, when you write a review for a book received as a freebie you MUST acknowledge this. It's an FTC regulation."The way I understand ..."
Without actually looking it up, I'm pretty sure both Goodreads and Amazon interpret FTC rules that way, and it is definitely common practice. All book blogs do so, and any R4R programs I'm aware of require it.
Make a note, if you think you're likely to forget if it was free or not. And if you're not sure, I don't think anyone's going to get upset if you said something was free when you actually paid for it.
E.G. wrote: "I can recommend two goodreads groups that provide authors with the opportunity to give/receive book reviews in a process that is moderated and avoids conflict of interest.Review Group: https://..."
Well said E.G., they are both very honest groups and certainly not Circle Jerk places!
Linda wrote: "I just received one this morning, the first direct solicitation of a 5-star for 5-star rating on Amazon I've ever received.I not only turned it down firmly, but I flagged the PM -- which came fro..."
It sounds like the one I got today as well - poor English but offering a 5-star review. Do we name and shame?
Obviously a foreign language book and equally obviously somebody with more desperation than sense. Sad but also very irritating.
Shirley wrote: "I guess as they say, to each his own. I respectfully disagree with you because what I have to say should not be any less important than what anyone else has to say. I'm honest and I'm open and abov..."So I assume in your review you disclose that you have a connection with the author and swapped reviews of each other's books?
No offense intended toward any particular author and/or their right to have an opinion, but readers want to hear opinions of other readers. Not book blurb circles, not review circles from other authors, they want honest reader opinions. If I recognize an author reviewing another author in the same genre, they share the same agent/publishing house, that review has little or no value to me as a reader.
PS. If readers spot you or any author review swapping it's an instant turn off to readers. You know, those folks you want to sell books to.
Linda wrote: "For the benefit of those who don't read/understand Spanish, the title is "Things You Shouldn't Do If You Want to Be A Writer."No, I'm not kidding."
Unreal...
This isn't an official GR Feedback thread, so I guess we aren't preve..."Lisa wrote: "Obviously a foreign language book and equally obviously somebody with more desperation than sense. Sad but also very irritating."
You would think that they would check before 'bribing' people that they actually read in Spanish...
Earlier this week I posted this message on my Linkedin page-If you want me to review your book, review mine first. then we'll talk.
And that's how I feel about all new/indie authors out here & I apply this to myself. Should anyone take me up on this, I would either reciprocate or--if I just can't read their subject matter- I'd give them some love out here via their site or...a recommendation to one of my peeps who might like their book...
Too many of us out here and too much draft writing for me to get behind any new author whose work hasn't been vetted in some way. Hook me first...then we'll discuss. That's just doing business based on win/win model which i have always aspired to.
Misfit wrote: "Shirley wrote: "I guess as they say, to each his own. I respectfully disagree with you because what I have to say should not be any less important than what anyone else has to say. I'm honest and I..."You seem to be disregarding the fact that authors are readers as well. If an author reviews a book, their review should not be ignored just because they are an author. A author's genuine opinion is the same as any other persons.
Now, as I said in a previous comment, if a commitment has been made between two parties for reciprocal reviews, then it should be boldly stated at the start of the review.
I am an author, but I am also a reader - I buy books just like everyone else. I write reviews on books that are my genuine opinion. The fact that I am an author, should not bar my opinion from being heard.
As a reader, I don't really care what a reviewer does for a living, as long as their review is honest and states any obligations they have to the book they are reviewing.
-HMC
I agree, but with all the horrible Fiverr gigs and Facebook swap groups it is obvious a lot of authors think honesty won't help them. I find that very sad to be honest, Linda. Authors and readers have one common trait (or at least the good ones do) which is reading and enjoying good books. If you don't read, how can you know how to write? Review swaps that bypass both reading and common decency do none of us any service at all.
As most discriminating readers look at the blurb and the Look Inside before they even set eyes on any reviews the only thing they are gaming is the Amazon algorhythm for visibility. It is very wrong.
A author's genuine opinion is the same as any other persons.@HM. Let's try this another way. As a reader I can choose whose opinions I consider when deciding on a book. It is my opinion not to give as much consideration to a review written by an author. I choose not to pay attention to reviewers like Harriet Klausner who are known shills for book review websites and never have anything bad to say about a book. I choose to disregard reviews by bloggers who like to be author's pet and never give a critical review ever. I choose to pay more attention to the opinions of my friends here at Goodreads, and rarely look at the community reviews.
You can certainly state your opinion about a book you enjoyed by an author you're friendly with, but you cannot demand that I must give the same value to your opinion that I give to reviewers I know and trust. Just like there are folks who don't care for my reviews, especially when the snark is turned on. Don't like the way I write it, don't read it.
I think one of the worst consequences is the devaluation of reviews in general. And I disagree with Marla's LinkedIn message. I don't think people should review my work so I'd review theirs. If someone wants me to review their work, send me a link to the Amazon sample.
If I read the sample and tell the author that I'm not interested to review the book, that's final. The only thing that persuades me to read/review someone's work is the work itself. Not whether the author worked really hard on it, or needs the money to feed an orphanage.
I don't flog my book on reviewers. I offer GR friends one of my books (their choice, no strings attached) as a welcome present. Should they choose to review it, my prospective readers would probably appreciate their efforts. I don't seek out more reviews, because I rather have five real reviews from interested readers than fifty fake reviews that will end up disappointing readers.
And that's why I still don't get why 'authors' would buy reviews, or Facebook Likes, or Twitter Followers. If someone has three hundred followers, I know they've been working on being interesting. If they have thirty thousand followers and every other message is 'Buy My Book', I know where the followers came from.
Very true Martyn until you get to the very last bit which devalues anyone who builds a following by just being social. I have 11.6K followers and have never ever bought one. I have posted on Twitter for years about music, jokes, animal rights, funny memes, political peeves, poetry and just chatted with friends using the @ function and hashtags. I have had hundreds of obnoxious follows from corrupt "follower sellers" and I never, ever follow them back. I do not buy anything.
Lisa wrote: "I agree, but with all the horrible Fiverr gigs and Facebook swap groups it is obvious a lot of authors think honesty won't help them. I find that very sad to be honest, Linda. Authors and readers h..."Maybe more than thinking their own work isn't good enough, they've come to the conclusion that the book marketplace is like everything else, putting out a good product doesn't bring much guarantee of success — or even being noticed.
It's numbers, smoke and mirrors. Whatever gets the consumer to notice the product, and, if you look at many of the blockbuster best sellers, it sure as hell isn't necessarily the quality of the writing.
I'm not sure how I feel about all the FB and other reciprocals, but I can see where it comes from, having to play that numbers game.
And yes, there's always going to be an underlying current of doubt that your book is good enough, that's one of the pitfalls of writing.
Lisa wrote: "Very true Martyn until you get to the very last bit which devalues anyone who builds a following by just being social. I have 11.6K followers and have never ever bought one. I have posted on Twitte..."Lisa, I'm talking about an enormous amount of followers for people who are only flogging their books. I have nothing but respect for those who build an audience over years by engaging with other people.
The problem is that it is a little like athletes taking steroids Renee. They are medically inadvisable, so drug checks operate and cost a lot of money. If they were allowed by some, then every sportsman or sportswoman would need to take them just to be able to compete. If that were allowed there would be so many torn muscles, sex changes, heart attacks and psychotic breakdowns that nobody would want to be an athlete. So steroid use is banned and heavily policed. What we have now is a similar situation with writers. Some writers feel they have to cheat because the result of not cheating is to remain invisible. What they fail to see is that readers now distrust all writers they don't know personally. It is a very sad and sick situation.
An adage commonly utilized within management circles may be applied to authors seeking to "game" the system."Your work speaks for itself. Don't interrupt!"
Martyn V. (aka Baron Sang Froid) wrote: "Lisa, I'm talking about an enormous amount of followers for people who are only flogging their books. I have nothing but respect for those who build an audience over years by engaging with other people."Thanks Martyn. I have a lot of author followers too and to be honest, apart from the famous ones, the average number of followers is likely to be between 500 and 3000 followers. I would love to see them interact more because shouting "Buy my book" over and over to a load of other authors is pretty stupid as well as boring. Social Media should be primarily social. If you tweet 20 times a day and only a couple of those are promotional you are doing it right, if all 20 are "Buy Me" tweets you will lose followers. That's how it works. :)
Linda wrote: "@Lisa -- Excellent analogy!"Thank you Linda. That analogy is something that has been going through my mind for some time. The situation is just so frustrating for writers who don't "game the system" as well as for readers who want good quality books.
H.M. wrote: "Misfit wrote: "Shirley wrote: "I guess as they say, to each his own. I respectfully disagree with you because what I have to say should not be any less important than what anyone else has to say. I..."well said
Lisa wrote: "I agree, but with all the horrible Fiverr gigs and Facebook swap groups it is obvious a lot of authors think honesty won't help them. I find that very sad to be honest, Linda. Authors and readers h..."Hi Lisa, because I am an author why would you not think that I read the books I review. I love to read and I give an honest review.
Rion wrote: ""BTW, whatever your policy on accepting a free copy to review is, when you write a review for a book received as a freebie you MUST acknowledge this. It's an FTC regulation."The way I understand ..."
JFTR
As per GRs Review Guidelines
"Commercial reviews are not allowed and will be deleted. If you received a free copy of the book, you are required to disclose that in your review in compliance with federal law."
As far as one author reviewing another, I've read and reviewed quite a few new indie authors and so far have given only one 5-star review. That was for a wonderful Historical Fiction novel I read earlier this year; I loved it, and thought it deserved 4 1/2 stars, but you can't rate a half star so I rounded up. That's one author (me) reviewing another and giving an honest review. The author of that book doesn't read Science Fiction, so she hasn't read my book and I would never ask her to. I've also given some 1- and 2-star reviews to fellow writers. Authors can give honest reviews to another author. I certainly do.
I was told that Amazon deletes the review if you state the book was free. It needs to be reworded. Has anyone else heard this?
Misfit wrote: "@HM. Let's try this another way. As a reader I can choose whose opinions I consider when deciding on a book. It is my opinion not to give as much consideration to a review written by an author..."I'm not disagreeing with that. I just object to your (admittedly inferred) blanket statement that ALL readers disregard reviews made by authors.
-->on reading the comment again, I think I may have misinterpreted your meaning. The statement read (to me) that you were talking on behalf of all readers, not giving your individual opinion.
Misfit wrote: "A author's genuine opinion is the same as any other persons.@HM. Let's try this another way. As a reader I can choose whose opinions I consider when deciding on a book. It is my opinion not to gi..."
I agree, Misfit. I'm the same way. I do have author friends whose opinions I respect and trust but I will disregard any review by an author who is involved in reciprocal reviewing or one that only posts positive reviews. Same with bloggers or regular readers.
Shirley wrote: "I was told that Amazon deletes the review if you state the book was free. It needs to be reworded. Has anyone else heard this?"No, and I know that I have reviews by people who have received review copies (and said so). Amazon will sometimes delete reviews where they believe the review is not objective, but in that case I would think the failure to state that it's a free copy would be more likely to get you into trouble. I also think they may get cranky if you say you got it free off another site.
Shirley wrote: "I was told that Amazon deletes the review if you state the book was free. It needs to be reworded. Has anyone else heard this?"That's not even remotely true.
As per Amazons Review Guidelines
"• Full disclosure: If you received a free product in exchange for your review, please clearly and conspicuously disclose that that you received the product free of charge. Reviews from the Amazon Vine™ program are already labeled, so additional disclosure is not necessary. "
I buy the books I review. I must be very naive. None of what you said even crossed my mind. I just know I was told that I needed reviews. Dishonesty was not the motive for me at all.
Here'san old discussion on Amazon. See comment #2: I'm keeping an open mind, based on the author's reviews. Some respected historical fiction writers - India Edgehill, Michelle Moran, Diane Haegar - have liked this book, and as I've liked their books, I will be more inclined to want to read this book also. At least one of those three authors named is the queen of historical fiction book blurbs. What do you think potential readers (people who buy books) would think after a few duds based upon that author's recommendations?
Or another example, a friend of mine purchased and read a book based on the glowing Amazon reviews. She hated it, and was very disappointed finding out afterwards that the majority of those glowing Amazon reviews were written by fellow authors, and authors who all participated in a book review blog. A blog that never ever gives out a critical word. My friend felt cheated. Yes, those authors probably felt they were being honest in their reviews, but my friend would have given those reviews less "weight" in making a book purchasing decision.
Oh, and for the record the owner of that review blog giving gushies to all those self-published authors posts those reviews of her friend's books to Amazon under a not-her-real-name account. Doesn't disclose book source or relationships either.
Linda wrote: "It's not because you're an author, Shirley. But this is the current paradigm with self- and indie-published authors from the readers' perspective.
They see a review, and note that the review is..."
This.
Well said, Linda. As usual. ♥
Shirley wrote: "I have no problem with book swaps for reviews. I have did it a few times and it worked out well. I try to be as honest as I can be. Luckily I've not had a book that I disliked so I didn't have to ..."I hope you disclose this arrangement in the review.
"I'm honest and I'm open and above board about what I do or say."
I'm hopeful you are also honest and above board about what you have received, or expect to receive, in exchange for your review.
Otherwise it's just wrong.
I do like your analogy, Lisa! I was a bodybuilder (totally natural, no crap) for years (still a gym rat) and that's how it was. The same places that came out with the tests to detect the substances they'd developed were releasing the next, for-the-moment-undetectable PE drug right behind the test for the last one. The same thing is going on with publishing/book marketing — at every level as far as I can see. Any of us who thinks that we're going to get rich off of our writing . . . Yeah. Right. Sure. And you can't possibly get pregnant the first time you have sex . . .
While I do love Jim's sentence, "Your work speaks for itself. Don't interrupt!" , in the real world, whether it's writing or digging ditches, it's purest fantasy the majority of the time. That's a tragedy.
Right now we seem to have come to a Nadir of Daylight of literature, where it's possible — proven — that you're more likely to hit with 49 1/2 hues of poorly written Twat-tle bodice-ripped, unimaginatively, from someone else's unimaginative and poorly executed mash-up of teen-angst meets the supernatural Hatfields and McCoys.
I don't know what the answer is, other than to write something you can be proud of and put it out there as best and as ethically as you can. And don't quit your day job.
Linda wrote: "Shirley wrote: "I buy the books I review. I must be very naive. None of what you said even crossed my mind. I just know I was told that I needed reviews. Dishonesty was not the motive for me at al..."Because reviews help to sell books. I buy the books I review so I can help the author and I hope that someone does that for me. Do you not think that if Mrs Jones sees a review on Goodreads or Amazon that she thinks sounds great that it wouldn't have any influence on her buying the book. Reviews influence me.
Linda wrote: "Reviews are not for authors; they're for readers. IMHO, if you want to give the author a critique, fine, do so privately, but sparing the author's feelings has no place in a review that's intended for readers. If all you're trying to do is help the author sell books, then you're writing ad copy, not a consumer review."You always say things so perfectly, Linda :D
Exaggerated or blatantly false 5-star ratings and raving reviews, which some indies and SPA's routinely award eachother's books, regardless of the quality of the techinical writing or narration, have resulted in most serious readers ignoring reviews altogether, which is a disservice to those reviewers who make an honest effort to write as unbiased a review as is humanly possible.Many independently and self-published books are as well-written and entertaining as those released by a mainline publisher. Unfortunately, many are not.
If all indies and SPA's would spend as much effort and time obtaining the knowledge and skills necessary to produce a technically well-written and skillfully narrated work, as some do hawking mediocre books, the stigma, often attached to independently and self-published books, will disappear. If they don't, it won't.
Shirley wrote: "Hi Lisa, because I am an author why would you not think that I read the books I review. I love to read and I give an honest review."I have no reason to assume that you wouldn't read and then review a book honestly because you loved it. That is how reviews should work. My problem isn't with you or any other author reviewing books they have read. I am a reader and a musician but I am also a writer myself and when I see all SPAs getting a bad rap because a few use Fiverr or Facebook exchanges it upsets me.
We Brits have a saying that bad behaviour "lets the side down" and another that states "it's simply not cricket!" That is where I am coming from. If enough people buy reviews it devalues all good books with good reviews.
As a reader, book reviews are the very last thing I consider before buying because frankly the 5* and the 1* reviews often have an agenda. That agenda is either promotional or anti-promotional. I read the blurb and the sample to see if the book might interest me, then I generally look at the best written 2* and the best written 4* reviews. Those are the reviews I trust for objectivity.
Doesn't it sadden anyone that 5* reviews are so often taken to be fake? It does me, but I can fully understand why some readers might feel that way.
Frankly, I just review what I like to read. If someone reviewed my work and they're authors themselves, I might be tempted to see what they write and even review their work, but the blatant 'I scratch your back, you scratch mine' is repulsive to me. It smacks of 'gaming the system' and I doubt if the resulting reviews are honest.
I won't use the word 'unbiased', because my reviews are my opinions and my opinions are always biased by what I read, my experiences, my knowledge, et cetera. But my reviews are my honest opinions on the book, without taking the feelings of the author into account. The author might be a swell person, but his/her book can still be crap. And history is full of excellent novels written by assholes, so the author's character has little or none to bear on the quality of their prose. Or their ability to tell a story.
So, how do you handle request for review swaps or other reciprocal promotional suggestions?