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Circe
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Buddy Read in November for Circe by Madeline Miller
I realized after seeing Amy's review that I did not put it here as well. Here it is...
I am one of the few that did not enjoy Circe. It became a chore to finish it. What I enjoyed about Circe is that the writing was beautiful and enchanting. For this reason, only I held on. Everything in this story was so vividly described I felt like I was a part of this ancient world and this is the one thing I loved about this book. I also enjoyed the mythology. I have always enjoyed stories of gods and goddesses and Circe was no exception. I recognized so many of the characters in this book from high school.
But I did not enjoy the story. I liked the idea of a story about Circe, but nothing was happening with the plot. Nothing that helped to move the story forward. There were many descriptions, which I loved, but little action to pair with them. When big action points would start to happen, they would suddenly fizzle out before anything would happen. Sometimes something exciting did happen, but I was left unsatisfied because the action occurred so quickly and there was no depth to what was happening.
While I enjoyed the idea of having a book, full of ancient gods and goddesses I never truly cared about any of them. It didn't matter to me when Circe would continue to live on while the mortals around her withered. It didn't matter to me whether Circe would ever find a way out of her exile. I never felt attached to the characters as I do in so many other books and this made reading this book difficult.
Finally, I did not like the ending. The story ended in a cliffhanger in a sense. What happens? I don’t like implications, and while this has happened in other books that I have rated higher, this is what solidified it for me. I just did not like this book.
I am one of the few that did not enjoy Circe. It became a chore to finish it. What I enjoyed about Circe is that the writing was beautiful and enchanting. For this reason, only I held on. Everything in this story was so vividly described I felt like I was a part of this ancient world and this is the one thing I loved about this book. I also enjoyed the mythology. I have always enjoyed stories of gods and goddesses and Circe was no exception. I recognized so many of the characters in this book from high school.
But I did not enjoy the story. I liked the idea of a story about Circe, but nothing was happening with the plot. Nothing that helped to move the story forward. There were many descriptions, which I loved, but little action to pair with them. When big action points would start to happen, they would suddenly fizzle out before anything would happen. Sometimes something exciting did happen, but I was left unsatisfied because the action occurred so quickly and there was no depth to what was happening.
While I enjoyed the idea of having a book, full of ancient gods and goddesses I never truly cared about any of them. It didn't matter to me when Circe would continue to live on while the mortals around her withered. It didn't matter to me whether Circe would ever find a way out of her exile. I never felt attached to the characters as I do in so many other books and this made reading this book difficult.
Finally, I did not like the ending. The story ended in a cliffhanger in a sense. What happens? I don’t like implications, and while this has happened in other books that I have rated higher, this is what solidified it for me. I just did not like this book.
Amy wrote: "*Tagged as a classic only as it refers heavily to and interweaves with the Oddessey - which clearly is a classic in its own right.
I actually knew very little about Greek mythology, and most what ..."
Amy, I still am feeling this. Immortality and exile. For me, exile is far worse than death.
I actually knew very little about Greek mythology, and most what ..."
Amy, I still am feeling this. Immortality and exile. For me, exile is far worse than death.
I am so confused / torn by this book... I burned through over 100 pages yesterday. When I am gripped, I am gripped, and as I mentioned there are pockets of what seems to me to be (beautiful) filler. It is really epic and covers so many aspects of life that are universal, as Amy and I believe someone else mentioned - seeking approval and acceptance from parents, trying to find ones true self, searching for love, motherhood, various forms of sibling conflict and rivalry...
There are even times when I think I could pick this up again later to try and read it more patiently and with new perspective.
And still yet, at time reading this book seems like a chore. Why!?
I just can't put my finger on it.
You guys, you're not encouraging me! I've only finished chapter 1, and am being distracted by other books, so I haven't been able to make progress on this...LOL I may not finish it, I don't like my reading to be a chore! My book for the tag of the month is covered because I'm reading Things Fall Apart with my son, who has it assigned for school.
My son just wrote an essay on Things Fall Apart. I love that these newer titles are 10th grade fare. As far as Circe goes, people appear to be all over the Map, Anna. I'd say if you're going to read it, do it now, because we are all in it together.
annapi wrote: "You guys, you're not encouraging me! I've only finished chapter 1, and am being distracted by other books, so I haven't been able to make progress on this...LOL I may not finish it, I don't like my..."I loved the book. I know Susie did too. I didn't think it was perfect, but I gave it a solid 4 stars. So, don't let this cluster of negative reviews get you down, the book may be suffering from how much other PBTers loved it! lol
I finally wrote a review.. still feeling kind of meh about it:I finished this two days ago and have been trying to wrap my arms around what I thought about it ever since. I was disappointed. I do not think it lived up to the hype. I don't think it was bad per se but it had flaws.
It didn't hold my attention. I got bored in several places. I could definitely put it down and walk away at any time. I think there were parts of the story that were good. And some pages did fly by. The writing was easy to consume. Part of me feels like the author was trying to accomplish too much with the book. She wanted to get all these things in there, stories relating to myths, morals, etc... and then needed a way to stretch in between. It was the stretches between the things that she was trying to accomplish that she lost me.
I'm glad I read it but it definitely is not a favorite and I don't know if I would recommend it to anyone.
Anna, if it helps at all, I’m over half way and really enjoying it so far! I just don’t have much reading time at the moment - am impatient to get on with it.
Anna, I am also enjoying it-gotten up to chapter 8, I also have a few other books going right now, so I don't see me finishing it this week.
I’m so sad about this thread because I LOVED it! I’m at work but I’ll come back later to elaborate.
I really like it too! It might just end up being my favorite book I've read this year! I just haven't had time to read it, I'm participating in NaNoWriMo and it's really cutting into my reading time.
I just finished. Wow, that ending! Much to settle in my mind before I write my review. And it is very late at night so ... later.For those not 'feeling it' - persevere. The whole once you have finished and look back, may just change your reaction.
This is one of those books when I wish GR star rating system did fractions.
Ok, so as I mentioned earlier, I LOVED this book. It has gone straight to the pool room for me (a reference to an iconic Australian film called The Castle!). What elevated my experience was that it really tapped in to my feminist core. Circe decided to change the course of her destiny. She rewrote her narrative. She unapologetically unleashed her strength against the odds. She was a woman in a man's world. She wasn't beautiful. She wasn't adored. She was second rate, and yet she was BAD ASS!
I think that’s an important perspective, Susie. Thinking of it from the therapy point of view, what would what make up a second rate goddess?
Susie wrote: "Ok, so as I mentioned earlier, I LOVED this book. It has gone straight to the pool room for me (a reference to an iconic Australian film called The Castle!). What elevated my experience was that it..."Although I am only half way through, I am on team 'bad-ass"-I am making notes as I go along so I can truly contribute some time soon!
Add me to Team Badass! I completely agree with Susie that I loved the feminist aspects of the retelling. She was a second rate goddess but she totally controlled her own destiny. Or did she...?!? I did think there was still a healthy does of Greek fatalism as well. Amy, I would consider her "second rate" because her mother was a lowly nymph and so Circe was always viewed as less-than by the other gods. They considered her "ugly" and not worthy of them. She was discriminated against, treated unfairly, and forged her own way. Sometimes she took the path of compassion and sometimes the path of wrath, but I enjoyed each of them.
I loved how she was a figure figure in so many Greek myths, all of these other more famous gods and heroes weaved around her while she was stuck in exile on her island.
As others have pointed out, it was a bit of a slow start for me and I thought the "love story" could have been improved, but I found it a gripping story overall.
I finished last night and I loved the ending. It was very fitting for the origin of Circe and the course of her life.
(view spoiler)
I am on team BAD ASS for sure!
There were just many times I would lose interest.
Overall, it was a really great story and I love Circe as a feminist rewriting her own story as Susie mentioned.
I am still trying to digest to determine my final star rating and organize my thoughts but I am leaning toward 4.
Question for any Greek mythology experts or enthusiasts: how much of the framework of this story was already established for Miller? I don't know much about this characters, just a cursory understanding, so I was curious how much she built on the characters and their world.
It's really interesting to see everyone's thoughts as they finish the book. I find it fascinating how different we've all felt as we finished. I wish I saw Circe as a bad ass but really it was bad writing choices for me. I literally rolled my eyes during a couple of the scenes... (I think there are a couple of people still reading so just in case) (view spoiler)
There were other scenes that annoyed me too. I didn't connect well with Circe and I struggled with her character
My telephone sometimes makes choices that keeps me from expressing myself as I wish. I guess I had the other thought, about sitting across from someone in therapy who was a goddess, but felt or was considered second rate. What that has to do to a person, and how they construct themselves psychologically and then act must be incredibly complex. I guess my question for the group would be that in addition to being a bad ass, when she vulnerable? Did she exhibits depth of understanding? Which I guess if I’m honest, that kind of courage is my version of bad ass. The courage to deeply live out the fullest life given one’s conflicts and vulnerabilities. I guess that’s why to me the story finally made sense, and why I’m gonna argue the ending was indeed fitting. I think it was the best possible choice and and for her to live most fully and truly take her power and agency on her own terms. I do think the ending raised the book. But I don’t think I would have felt that way if I wasn’t reading it with you fifteen. It wouldn’t have hit me as per family if I were reading this alone, and not with 14 other profoundly strong and thoughtful women.
Charlotte wrote: "It's really interesting to see everyone's thoughts as they finish the book. I find it fascinating how different we've all felt as we finished. I wish I saw Circe as a bad ass but really it was ba..."
Let me ask you this... (view spoiler)
I thought Circe was almost always vulnerable until close to the end of the book. For the most part she is consistently wavering on whether she is happy in exile or miserable or wants more, but doesn't really know what that more is...
(view spoiler)
And to Amy's point - agreed on all counts regarding the ending. Fitting and elevated the story as a whole.
I feel like the more we talk about this book the more I like it :)
I think she was vulnerable a lot. Vulnerable doesn't mean she still wasn't badass.She showed compassion to prometheus. She guardedly let in Hermes. She less guardedly let in Odysseus. And I think she was completely vulnerable when it came to her son.
She questioned herself over and over. Questioned her actions. Had regrets. And other things she did not regret at all.
And the "second rate" is not meant to be a personal slam. That is more of a throw back to how the Greek mythology portrayed her. Maybe "second tier" would be a more accurate description.
And I agree with every word stated about her vulnerability. Makes her unusual for a goddess. Like as compared with both of her parents and her brothers and sister. What an awful lot they were! I was sad for her constantly.
Speaking of being "second rate," I kept wondering if in the original mythology she was actually unattractive. Were the Gods just feeding on her own insecurities, and thus making her question herself, or was she different from the other Gods physically? We know personality wise she was definitely different... So much to unpack for all the complaining I did :-/
Meli wrote: "Let me ask you this..."I've been thinking about this for days and I don't know what the answer is... but here are questions I've been thinking... (view spoiler)
And maybe it's not that but her vulnerability that makes me uncomfortable with her character. I am horrible when it comes to vulnerability. I've never felt I've been "allowed" to show it and when I see it in others or when I attempt to show it now, I get SUPER uncomfortable. Which in that case, then I agree with Amy and Nicole and that in showing vulnerability is showing a huge amount of strength. I'm in awe of people that are able to show vulnerability especially in the face of rejection and mocking like Circe.
Charlotte wrote: "Meli wrote: "Let me ask you this..."I've been thinking about this for days and I don't know what the answer is... but here are questions I've been thinking... [spoilers removed]
And maybe it's n..."
I understand your point, but I also think (view spoiler)
Meli wrote: "Speaking of being "second rate," I kept wondering if in the original mythology she was actually unattractive. Were the Gods just feeding on her own insecurities, and thus making her question hersel..."I think the book mentioned that she was "ugly" to the gods and I remember them making a lot of the tone of their voice. And her "ugliness" was do to the attributes she got from her nymph mother.
I don't know that she was "ugly" as we would classify it, but ugly to the gods.
Okay, I've had a chance to digest it after finishing it late last night. And I now have time to write my review. At first, seems to be the story of Circe - goddess, witch, daughter of Helios, the Titan Sun God - a simple retelling of Greek myth and lore. Most of us know Circe from Homer's The Odyssey, where Odysseus encounters her and her penchant for turning sailors into pigs during his long effort to return home after the Trojan War. The gods and the mortals of Greek myth are humanized, brought to earth so to speak, and their stories are told from Circe's POV, as she saw and heard them in her time. All that and more can be found in this novel.
But I hazard to suggest that this is actually the story of a woman who is neglected, tormented, abused, and exiled. It is about a woman who constantly doubts herself, her strength and her abilities, and one who believes she deserves all that befalls her. This is a woman whose inability to conform to expectations leads first to isolation and ridicule within her family and social milieu, then repudiation and banishment. She is socially awkward, non-conformist, plain, and believes she is powerless. This is a book that is also about exile, the deep, unmitigated, relentless loneliness and isolation of exile, and how exile is a crucible for all who are exiles. And, ultimately, this is a book about a woman who finally finds and becomes her true self within the crucible of exile.
This was not as engaging to read as I had expected, and I'm not really sure why. The strengths include the writing which is absolutely gorgeous - Miller uses a vocabulary rich in nature and the earth which suits Circe, who is so very grounded in the earth and at one with nature. Each character you meet comes to life as an individual with strengths and weaknesses, from Helios the Titan God of the Sun to Hermes the Messenger, to Penelope the patient mortal wife of Odysseus, and many more. They are not necessarily the same as in the familiar myths, but that's a good thing for those of us who are perhaps too familiar with Greek myths, lore, history, and literature. In fact, that's why I think I found this not as compelling or engaging a read - I'm too familiar with the core subject.
But, the final 2 chapters absolutely blew me away. It was a bit unexpected but felt so right. It made me reconsider the entire experience of reading the novel; that is not something a writer easily accomplishes! I am very glad I persevered.
I ultimately gave it a high rating even though I was not loving it the entire time reading it, and in fact avoided reading it at times. I found it best to read in short bursts - it was a perfect commuting read for me, and when I was reading it during my commute, I loved it. I loved the writing, the language, the way Circe and her story was so very bound to the earth. Earlier this year I read another book about exile, Call Me Zebra, which was also a difficult book to read and become engaged with, but was still amazing, funny, and even outrageous, yet touching. Perhaps the theme of exile is one that makes us uncomfortable? Something to think about.
Meli wrote: "Question for any Greek mythology experts or enthusiasts: how much of the framework of this story was already established for Miller? I don't know much about this characters, just a cursory understanding, so I was curious how much she built on the characters and their world.."I would say that the outline of the stories told existed already either in Greek myth, literature, drama, lore and other classical treatments - I'm thinking of the playwrights and librettists who took the basic story and retold it in some fashion - Racine, Strauss. But there are many variations, and every author who chooses to use one of these stories picks a particular one to use as their base. That is not necessarily a weakness, especially given how Miller adds significantly to the portrayal of each character encountered - such as Odysseus. And she does stray significantly at times, especially at the end.
I've had a pretty decent classical education, plus when much younger worked for a few years with a theater group that put on the Greek Plays in Ancient Greek, and another theater group that performed classic French plays like Phaedra which were based on the Greek myths. Yeah, I was one of those nerds.
Think of what Miller wrote as the same way an actor and a director will interpret Euripedes' 'Medea' for the stage. You may or may not agree with it, and it may or may not succeed completely.
I may be rehashing some of my review but I want to specifically address some of the recent discussion more specifically.Vulnerability is a good description. But also Circe's perception of herself affects everything being told. Isn't a woman usually the harshest critic of herself? In our own eyes, we are never pretty enough, smart enough, thin enough, strong enough, talented enough, etc. Isn't Circe just reflecting what every woman experiences? And doesn't it all start from the words and actions of those around us who are for the most part acting out of their own vulnerabilities and reassure themselves that they are better.
I agree that (view spoiler) IMHO, substitute something else or ignore it completely is not addressing it but letting it lurk in the dark.
I'm also not so sure that moment was her lowest moment, the one that brought her to rock bottom. I suggest that (view spoiler)
In my opinion, this is as much a story of exile - and what exile means if you are a woman alone - as it is about Circe coming into her own as a woman. Her entire evolution needs to be filtered through the prism of exile. Of banishment, isolation, loneliness. With the added lovely bit that since she is a goddess, thus it is for eternity. Exile from all she knew, from her family, society, home - even if they were less than ideal -- isn't that what really made her so incredibly vulnerable? And isn't strength and confidence and knowledge of oneself learned through exposure to society, others? Of course it is going to take Circe a long time to find herself and her strength and decide what she truly wants.
Also, think about what a person first experiences when exiled -- fear, hope, despair, resignation, struggle to adapt, ultimately wisdom and peace, strength to take advantage of opportunity. It's like the movie Castaway with Tom Hanks.
(view spoiler)
Beautiful review Theresa, and I loved all the thoughts.
Thanks, Amy. You flatter me!
Charlotte wrote: "I finally wrote a review.. still feeling kind of meh about it:
I finished this two days ago and have been trying to wrap my arms around what I thought about it ever since. I was disappointed. I do..."
Charlotte this is how I felt too often reading the book...meh. And bored. And could easily put it down with so many other books I have to put them down because of life.
I finished this two days ago and have been trying to wrap my arms around what I thought about it ever since. I was disappointed. I do..."
Charlotte this is how I felt too often reading the book...meh. And bored. And could easily put it down with so many other books I have to put them down because of life.
Charlotte wrote: "It's really interesting to see everyone's thoughts as they finish the book. I find it fascinating how different we've all felt as we finished.
I wish I saw Circe as a bad ass but really it was ba..."
Ugh Charlotte, I felt the same way right here. I actually rolled my eyes and mumbled, "really? Are you kidding me?" And I don't have a problem with this being used in a plot but it didn't need to be used in this book at all. That aspect actually just irritated me and was one of the times I almost put the book down for good.
I wish I saw Circe as a bad ass but really it was ba..."
Ugh Charlotte, I felt the same way right here. I actually rolled my eyes and mumbled, "really? Are you kidding me?" And I don't have a problem with this being used in a plot but it didn't need to be used in this book at all. That aspect actually just irritated me and was one of the times I almost put the book down for good.
I have had days to think about Circe and the one element that stands out for me is how aware she was of herself and how she was willing to do what she wanted, regardless of the consequences. Even though she was immortal she saw her own vulnerability and that is what I loved about this character.
Theresa - great observation of Circe's lowest point being (view spoiler). I hadn't considered that but now that you mention it that makes perfect sense because (view spoiler)
Hopefully I can get my thoughts together for a review this weekend.
Rachel wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "It's really interesting to see everyone's thoughts as they finish the book. I find it fascinating how different we've all felt as we finished. I wish I saw Circe as a bad ass bu..."
Whew... I'm so glad that you had the same feeling here. I've been trying to put my finger on why (as you can see in my last post). I feel like the author was trying to drive home a point that she had already made. I don't get annoyed every time an author uses it but when they use it without needing to.
Meli wrote: "Theresa - great observation of Circe's lowest point beingHopefully I..."
Yes plus (view spoiler)
Fun story... I was unpacking a box of my mom's books to add to my collection and in it happened to be the book Myths of Greece and Rome by Thomas BulfinchI looked up Circe and the first think I found was the myth of Glaucus and Scylla... Glaucus got changed, but not by Circe, it didn't say who, and was swimming along and saw Scylla who he instantly fell in love with but she rejected him. Glaucus went to Circe because she is a known enchantress for her help. She basically told him, don't waste your time on someone that isn't willing to meet you half way. If she rejects you then you should reject her. Glaucus didn't want to listen and said he would only ever love Scylla, which annoyed Circe so she mixed a potion and changed Scylla.
The book also goes over Circe and Odysseus meeting and it's fairly similar but there are some differences. Like Odysseus only sends half his crew because he had been warned about Circe's strengths as a magician. All of the animals are former men, not just the swine. It says she had a lovely singing voice. Once they finally went to leave, Circe directed them how to get past various obstacles like the Sirens, Scylla/Charybdis, and the cattle.
Charlotte - thanks for sharing! I was thinking of searching for my copy of Bullfinch! I do have more than one translation of The Odyssey which I want to consult for that version of their meeting. Perhaps this weekend.
Charlotte wrote: "Fun story... I was unpacking a box of my mom's books to add to my collection and in it happened to be the book Myths of Greece and Rome by Thomas BulfinchI looked up ..."
Great that you found a book! I have been Googling as I read...which is probably why I am still reading........................
I HATE that you can’t see spoilers on the app. :-(
I'm making progress - I'm up to around 38%, I'm just past the part where she finds out about Icarus and Daedelus, and I'm enjoying it so far!
Susie wrote: "I HATE that you can’t see spoilers on the app. :-("Once it seems everyone has finished, I will edit and remove my spoilers.
Same @spoilers. I’ve finished - and really liked it. Review time is non existent that’s all ...
I'm up it 51% and really enjoying it, although the pig thing is odd. Was that from the original myths?
When we all finish I could also change the title of the thread to warn future browsers that there are spoilers and to beware. On a side note, I was jotting down all the quotes I collected in this book and there are sooooo many beautiful lines and phrases and expressions. It is one of the things I love about this book.
Example:
"I quivered at the sound of his displeasure, Aeetes' face was calm, as if my father's anger were only another thing in the room, a table, a stool."
And,
"It was a trick of his, to set a sentence out like a plate on a table and see what you would put on it."
I felt like they capture a feeling in these moments beyond what a simple description of the situation would, like "Aeetes was nonplussed by father's anger," or "he spoke, waiting for my reaction."
The pig thing is from book 10 of the Odyssey, yes. I agree about the language, Meli. It’s like a shaft of sunlight at times - you can exactly see what she’s picked out.
As others have said, exile is such a strong theme. It’s not just about the physical exile on the island either - Circe is in exile from the start, just by being different among beings who do not tolerate differences. In fact mental or social exile can be worse. Her experience really reflects that of many ‘outsiders’, I think - it’s one of the reasons it resonated so strongly - there’s a hefty dose of human condition in there.
KateNZ wrote: "The pig thing is from book 10 of the Odyssey, yes. I agree about the language, Meli. It’s like a shaft of sunlight at times - you can exactly see what she’s picked out.
As others have said, exi..."
Exactly what I am getting from it Kate....1/2 way done
The language... so beautiful! But also the 'small' descriptive moments, such as Helios obsessively playing himself at draughts, which means he is not challenged and always wins, was such a little gem. I knew exactly who he was!
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The Silence of the Girls (other topics)Circe (other topics)
The Silence of the Girls (other topics)
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Thomas Bulfinch (other topics)Thomas Bulfinch (other topics)
I actually knew very little about Greek mythology, and most what ..."
Amy - great pools of thought. And you brought to the fore something so obvious - that this is a story of exile, what it means to be an exile - that I totally have been ignoring as I puzzle through why I have found reading this so lacking. As I read the last 50 pages I will have quite a bit to consider.
Earlier this year I read another book written in the first person about a young Iranian exile, a young woman, set in contemporary times: Call Me Zebra. The book is not an easy read in any way. But it was still funny, brilliant, stimulating, and brought home just how terrible - and terribly hard - exile is. Circe treads a similar path in her own way as Zebra does.