"The Ophiuchi Hotline" by John Varley (BR)

[Anthony]

Who’s in for this buddy read? As always, please include in your posts chapters and spoiler tags so we can follow along with one another’s progress.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

I'm in! But likely late. Perpetually.

[Anthony]

Necroposting FTW as per usual! 💀👻💀

[Jemppu]

Hey! Thank you for the thread. Have been expecting this BR keenly, and am currently 50 pages or so in... but as it is bed time now, will have to leave commenting till later (earlier?).

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Does no one in Finland sleep??

[Jemppu]

Allison wrote: "Does no one in Finland sleep??"

Currently 04:06 AM, I must conclude: no. I'd so love to blame the ass backwards seasons screwing up sleep patterns: other half of the year near complete darkness, the other light months on end... buut, it's likely just lack of self discipline X)

(though, I've always been a night owl - much more pleasantly calm right now)

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

It was very easy not to sleep when the sun never set, I'd buy that! Gotta watch you all, apparently you don't sleep and sharpen knives at odd hours. ;)

[Wen]

I am in but later this week. Hmm, apparently all of you go to bed so Late! I go to bed so early I don’t even want to talk about it:)

[Anthony]

Read the first chapter and I feel like I’m in very good hands with Varley’s energetic, muscular prose. He dives right into the deep end with this one and I’m here for it.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Supremely curious to learn what muscular prose is.

[Anthony]

I guess I think of muscular prose as having the qualities of being clear, lean, supple, and strong. You know, like a muscle. 💪🏻

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

It makes sense and is a delightful adjective to use about writing! I'm eager to have an example.

[Anthony]

I’ll be curious to see whether you agree with my assessment of Varley’s prose.

[Anthony]

After chapter 6, I’m struck by (view spoiler)[ a similarly out-there, gonzo approach to the sexual mores and physical augmentations found in the future society of Babel-17. I wonder whether Varley was inspired by that book.

The implications of multiple clones of yourself running around the galaxy is very very interesting, as is the knowledge that your cloned self may or may nor behave in ways you’d like to think tiy would... (hide spoiler)]

[Oleksandr]

Anthony wrote: "Who’s in for this buddy read? As always, please include in your posts chapters and spoiler tags so we can follow along with one another’s progress."

I'm in, plan to start it today or tomorrow. It seems quite short

[Dawn F]

Goddammit, you guys, you can’t pick a book that sounds uninteresting, can you? *adds to reading list*

[Alec]

Oh, I really want to join in on this one as it's also really little and seems incredibly interesting. But it'll be a bit late... Because, apparently, it's absolutely impossible to track down in Australia (eBook and physical) so it looks like I have to ship it in from overseas... lol. I have so many questions from the synopsis - I need to know what happens and how!

[Anthony]

It’s all good, necroposting is warmly welcomed around these parts!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

So, I TBRed this book initially because the opener for the second book's very...assertive (muscular, maybe??) and then the book blurb sounded cool to me.

I will say that I'd completely forgotten what both the blurb was and what the opener to book 2 was. I just went to find it again and cracked up. If anyone else wants to see it, here's the first line in Steel Beach.

(view spoiler)["In five years the penis will be obsolete," said the salesman." (hide spoiler)]

[Jemppu]

I've let this play out in my ears the whole day while running errands, without taking notes at exactly which points along the line things got introduced. But I'll attempt to figure that out - where these few random instances took place... currently at chapter 13.

Complete agreement with Anthony's assessment of the lean muscularity of the prose. 100% carb free: could pass as an Olympian. Varley wastes no words, gets a thing explained and moves on, providing good, even flow to whole of the narration. He also perfectly balances the thought-to-action ratio, knowing well when to describe happenings in movement and when to reflect them through the character's thoughts, giving us not only the appearance of things, but inside to the character's mind as well - firmer connection to the story.


Of legs, in chapter 1
(view spoiler)[Random, but the added length to legs immediately reminded me of one of my long time SciFi faves: Gattaca (the film). There though, the procedure was done not for vanity, but (view spoiler)[to aid mimic another person's ID records (hide spoiler)]. (hide spoiler)]

...and more over in chapter 6
(view spoiler)[Introduction of the notion of legs being useless/hazardous in zero-G environment and their possible replacement with extra pair of hands harkened to Quadies in Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan Saga. Though, this of course came a decade earlier. Did this influence the other, did these two come up with the same notion by themselves? Or is there perhaps some outside source for such thoughts? Either from elsewhere within the genre or actual studies / hypothesis? Or some degree of a trope already even?

Anthony wrote: "a similarly out-there, gonzo approach to the sexual mores and physical augmentations found in the future society of Babel-17. I wonder whether Varley was inspired by that book...."

Indeed, another very possible influence.


Anthony wrote: "The implications of multiple clones of yourself running around the galaxy is very very interesting..."

And quite terrifying. Personally, I can hardly imagine people having the same name as me. So, with this current mindset this idea sounds a violation of disturbing proportions. I suppose if one had grown up in this world however, it might be a bit more familiar an idea - an unfortunate possibility. Though hardly right still (without consent). (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 7
(view spoiler)[The initial conversation between Lilo and Cathay (what a lovable character!) was truly captivating to follow. And it was very satisfying to see the bond starting to form between the two. Having just read Varley's shortstory "Press Enter []" this was what I was very much hoping to encounter here as well: relaxed, casual interaction between self-aware, well fleshed out characters with stories to tell - sense of real history of lives lived about them. The kind of characters that can ground you to anything, no matter how fantastical a setting.

I'm also surprised how instantly I fell for Vejay too. Like, half a sentence instantly. The scene describing him hanging at the ceiling, rummaging through stuff, gave such a vivid mental image of the fellow and the scene, and the couple following sentences confirmed and sealed it. Leaving my mind rapidly blinking it's inspiration lights (nuisance I'll simply have to ignore for now). Possibly a kinda trope-y character then though? The stereotypical geek / whizz-kid. But oh, well. Adorable anyway. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 9
(view spoiler)[More on the sexual mores. Such an inspiringly unbiased and matter-of-factly look on the subject, from this era. Definitely one of the highlights. (hide spoiler)]

In chapter 10 (view spoiler)[ a good old regular sunburn? *haha* I love how the narration approaches this rather mundane to us occurrence, introducing it just as astonishing to Lilo as anything she has experienced anew during the course of the story - or in fact even more sensational -, from backing up minds to replacing limbs and organs. But yes, radiation poisoning it is. Puts a bit of an emphasis on the seriousness of it too though. Somehow even more, than burning one's skin off every other year. Gotta watch out for them space rays.

The roots of the language Lilo uses was a nice little 'homage-y' detail. Even if potentially quite dated a notion already by now. (hide spoiler)]

In chapter 13 (view spoiler)[Haa! In the future they'll use marks again for currency? Guess those who resisted the idea of us here switching Marks to Euros at the turn of the millennium, can rejoice again *haha* (hide spoiler)]

Listening to the audiobook, there is no telling that the character isn't in fact named "Leeloo".

[Jemppu]

Allison wrote: "...If anyone else wants to see it, here's the first line in Steel Beach..."

Nice! :,D Definitely going on the list of favorite opening lines.

[Dawn F]

@Allison Hahahaha I’ll be reading it just for that opener!

[Oleksandr]

I'm four chapters in, looks promising

[Anthony]

Just finished chapter 17: (view spoiler)[ I love Javelin and her ship and her use of the archaic word “fucking." She and everything she’s about are examples of why I enjoy Varley when he’s really cooking in his writing. He seems to allow himself wonderful flights of fancy, and he seems to love creating brilliant, eccentric people. (hide spoiler)]

[Wen]

Finished chapter 1 and I am not sure did this muscular prose escape my notice>_< But it's an interesting start.

[Travis]

Just through chapter 8

(view spoiler)[The scale of this world is really wonderful: a space opera as big and as small as our very own solar system. I'm getting clear Expanse vibes from the political intrigue and the subterrenean worlds in the outer planets, and now I'm really curious if this was one of the motivations. (hide spoiler)]

[Jemppu]

Finished, but found these few notes jotted down in my notes:

This I left unmentioned from chapter 6 (view spoiler)[The details on bureaucracies involving customs and interplanetary traffic control are the kind of things that make this world feel so real, rich and lived in (hide spoiler)]...

chapter 13 (view spoiler)[...and by the equally world building descriptions on fashion, regional trends, advertisements. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 16 (view spoiler)["It's okay. I have an adapter"
Captain Kirk might've had to have one of these as well. Seeing his interplanetary reputation with what must have been various kinds of sockets. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 17 (view spoiler)[First woman on Mars? Nice to know Elma York is still alive after all the centuries.

Such a great character, Javelin.

I wonder what that magazine cover might be, which her spaceship is based upon. I'm almost certain the author must've had one in mind. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 18 (view spoiler)[This is where I realize, that this, just like Varley's shortstory "Press Enter []" both include the theme of wariness for being screwed over by marketers, and sentiments on detachment from commercialism (not because of it's possible corruptness or some such, but rather of sheer annoyance). (hide spoiler)]

[Wen]

Chapter 6: (view spoiler)[With multiple clones in the same galaxy sounds like grouping a multiuniverse... I am not sure it’s a good thing or not. But also sounds like a whole bunch of puppies, it’s kind of cute(what?). And since they are clones, they might do things slightly differently? I mean even for me, sometimes I don’t even want the thing as yesterday... (hide spoiler)]

[Wen]

Chapter 10 (view spoiler)[It’s a tiny thing but I love the idea that Lilo woke up on a beach with this beautiful sunset view. (hide spoiler)]

[Travis]

ch. 9

(view spoiler)[I love finding this in a novel from 1977: "She was a female-stable personality--though not to the degree that Cathay was male-stable--and had spent only three of her fifty-seven years as a male. Jasmine was a member of the no-preference majority." (hide spoiler)]

[Wen]

Finished. (view spoiler)[Overall the multi-clones thing is very interesting:) I felt a bit tired after reading it. It’s sad that human race is so vulnerable. I guess it’s because my stupid 5 star standard so Bulter’s Dawn can be a five and this one is a two, aw. (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Ch 2.

(view spoiler)[ Hang on, are we all just glossing over the medic who was like "Just took your arm off, wanna screw?" And then it was called getting points??

Ohhh, 70s scifi, you always make things weird. (hide spoiler)]

[Jemppu]

Allison wrote: "Ch 2. "

*hah* Yeaaah... "Hang on", might just do it. Dunno if it's 70s scifi or the future state our Sol system (view spoiler)[(wait till you get to Pluto) (hide spoiler)].

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Oh... something to look forward to! Haha

[Oleksandr]

Is it only me or others also see several allusions on other SF works? Like in Ch. 5 (view spoiler)[Think of it in four dimensions. Think of the long worm with arms and legs that’s used in school to illustrate the idea. Picture an infant as one end of the worm, emerging from Mother’s vagina or the placentary, depending on how mother likes to do it. On the other end is death. Make marks on the worm each time a person’s memories are recorded. Each mark is a potential branch (hide spoiler)] is very similar to Slaughterhouse-Five

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

It sounds like folks are seeing lots of connections to other SF works!

I'm in Chapter 11 (view spoiler)[ I see the muscular nature of the prose! I think the word that came to mind early on for me was kinesthetic. It's always moving, always shifting from action to reaction.

I'm fairly allergic to a lot of this stuff, I must admit! 60s and 70s free love inspired relationships that always seem to have men who only sleep with women and women who sleep with whomever is grating. I liked the nod to trans folks! But also it sort of solidifies for me why so many of that generation have difficulty with the reality of trans people. It just keeps tripping over the signs of the times that persist in so many ways that bump up against my real life experiences negatively.

I also seem to have lost thread of the story. There was a lot of build up that something was being planned by Tweed (okay...) but it turns out that was just weapons and he's making a sort of disneyland (okay, I like this borrowed word) of convicts and illegal clones (how does he keep getting clones?!?! If it is that easy with a few connections and some cash, don't you think everyone with those resources would have a stable of similar slaves?). So then the enslaved people want freedom to...leave known society because they'd all die if not in hiding, like they're presently hiding. And then they make all these plans, discard all of them, overpower only 1 or 2 Vaffas (I do like the Vaffa phenomenon, actually), send a black hole through Jupiter and end up on Earth? I'm sure this will be better explained but for something as athletic as this book makes itself out to be, I am confused how it became so anemic plot-wise.

(hide spoiler)]

[Oleksandr]

Allison wrote: "I'm in Chapter 11"

(view spoiler)[
1. Tweed wants to get back the Earth, thus he needs 'singularity level' weapons, b/c it was noted that nuclear weapons hadn't worked. Disneylands are to keep humans aware about Earth diverse environments.
2. for clones you need 2 things here: bio-lab for body and brain-reader/writer for consciousness. As I understand, both are available for people w/ resources, e.g. our protagonist had her clone in the asteroid belt. It is possible others have it too.
3. "the enslaved people want freedom to...leave known society because they'd all die if not in hiding" - dura lex sad lex, they want to break free to quote a song
4. people on the asteroid didn't end up on Earth

(hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

I understood all of these points, I don't understand how they make a plot. What is the central driving tension or desire in this book?

(view spoiler)[ For example, I could understand a book about wanting to reclaim Earth, but it seems most humans don't really care to do this--they're largely not affected by the Invaders, except for folks like Tweed. So this isn't the central tension. I could understand if this was about escaping the machinations of corrupt gov't officials and being free in a hostile universe...except that the characters we meet all seem to have different opinions of what that means, so there's not a central desire, and their plan is ultimately "let's wing it" followed by a predictable "and now basically everyone's gonna die." So we do not have tension. (Or, I should say, I feel no tension).

Now she's on Earth, so I assume something Invader-related is about to happen, but her plans have all been utter crap so far, and her motivations have seemed at odds with everyone else we've met so far, which makes it hard to anticipate how this will benefit anyone, and also has my allegiances all turned about. I don't really want someone selfish to win and subject everyone to a different variation of a life they didn't want. What's in it for us? (hide spoiler)]

I'm led to conclude that the actual plot is about to start, and I've just read ~100 pages of prologue.

[Wen]

@Allison (view spoiler)[”For example, I could understand a book about wanting to reclaim Earth, but it seems most humans don't really care to do this” I felt everyone was just doing what he/she wanted at the moment. :) (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

That's sort of my feeling too, Wen!

Think I'm gonna take a break and read something else until I'm less surly, provided that surliness passes in the next 6 weeks, when I have to return this book for real for real.