What Is The Oldest Book You've Read In 2018 & How Does It Compare To More Contemporary Works? (10/21/18)

[Marc]

We're not looking for exactness here--just choose one of the older books you've read this year and share with us what it was and how it compares to some of the more recently-published works you've read. Are there distinct differences in terms of tone, subject matter, voice, style, etc.? Is it typical for you to read works from whatever era the one you're sharing is from? Are there aspects of literature from that time you're glad are no longer in use or are there features you wish still played a prominent role in today's literature?

[Hugh]

The oldest book I read this year is Moby-Dick, but that is not a typical 19th century novel either, and comparing it to most modern literature seems impossible. I don't read enough classics, perhaps because my reading agenda is becoming too dominated by GR peer pressure - in fact I read Moby-Dick because another group selected it as a group read. I have only read three other books published before the Second World War so far this year, and I don't have any on the to-read shelf.

[Neil]

The oldest book I have read is Don Quixote. It stacks up well against the modern stuff I read as it seems to do a lot of experimental stuff.

[Ellen]

I haven't really read any old books at all this year: it's shocking to me since I used to read "old" books (classics) almost exclusively. It seems I've lost the knack of reading older prose.

Last year, I read The Brothers Karamazov. It took me a long time but I loved it. I think I'll now try to read something old--maybe Little Dorrit, one of the few Dickens I've never read. It will be interesting to me to see if I can do it.

[Daniel]

I read The Small House at Allington by Anthony Trollope which is the fifth in the Barsetshire Chronicles. It's a delicious Victorian novel that moves the Chronicles away from the countryside for the first time and considers London life and the influence of political life. One more of these to go and then I will tackle the Palliser novels.

I also read My Ántonia which I'm embarrassed to admit was my first Willa Cather. It was glorious and I will definitely read more.

[David]

I read Rudolf Erich Raspe's Baron Munchausen's Narrative of his Marvellous Travels and Campaigns in Russia (1786). It was ok, but seemed to follow a bit of a repetitive formula after a few of the adventures. The reason I read it was in preparation for the second oldest book I read so far this year, Sigizmund Krzhizhanovsky's The Return Of Munchausen (1928). I had previously read Krzhizhanovsky's short story collection Memories Of The Future. While his Munchausen book was not quite at the same level, both books are fantastic reads (in both senses of the word) and I would highly recommend him.

[Whitney]

The oldest book I read this year was Paradise Lost. You just don't see a lot of lengthy modern works written in blank verse, so hard to compare. Satan certainly holds up as a great character, though.

I listened to the Audiobook read by Simon Vance, highly recommended.

[Lark]

I re-read The Brothers Karamazov and The Magic Mountain and War and Peace this year. It's hard not to think that we've lost something precious when we turned away from big social novels, and/or novels with the philosophical depth that these novels have.

I think we're still affected by the shattering horrors of the 20th century. We're still trying to figure out whether it's possible to believe in the unifying idea of humanity and humaneness that the great 19th century novels reflected.

Un the upside we're in a period where it's far easier to explore our differences. We can read and hear from radically different voices. That is all to the good but I wonder whether we can grow through the age of exploring differences and get back to a place where writers of any background and heritage are allowed to write about all of us.

[Marc]

Thanks to a literary treasure hunt, I ended up reading The Epic of Gilgamesh earlier this year. That's probably the oldest book I've ever read (c. 2100 BC; the closest runners-up in 2018 were a couple from early- or mid-1900s). The story telling seems much more rudimentary, but perhaps struggling with larger, universal issues. Well, it is an "epic," afterall. Actually makes me think that other than writers like Neil Gaiman, perhaps we've almost completely turned away from myth as a way of coming to grips with mortality and that which we don't understand, but story telling still remains an integral part of fostering culture, understanding, and compassion. Part of me is thinking the gods no longer like to walk among us, and part of me thinks Loki has inserted himself at the top of American politics...

[LindaJ^]

The two oldest books I've read in 2018, both audiobooks, are among the "classics" that I've never read. The were Tess of the D'Urbervilles (1891) and Wuthering Heights (1847). I loved Tess but found the characters in Wuthering Heights quite distasteful, although the book was well-written. I don't read a lot of books from the 19th century. At least as audiobooks, they did not seem that different in style from many from the 20th and 21st centuries. They are, of course, set in the social culture of the time they were written so certainly the role of and expectations of women were much different. I might see more differences if I had read them in print.

[Doug]

Oldest book, so far, this year was Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk, which I read after seeing the recent film semi-adapted from it. It was a fairly typical Russian novella of the period, but was a fast and fun read.

[Laurie]

My oldest book was The Art of War circa 500 BCE. The ways of warfare are dated, of course, but strategies such as know your enemy and don't get into a battle without an exit plan are still valid today.

[Pam]

The oldest book I read this year was Buddenbrooks by Thomas Mann, published in 1901. The main differences between it and more contemporary novels: 1) No profanity or if there was I didn’t notice it! 2) No changing timelines or narrators. I like reading older books for these reasons! It seems like contemporary authors think their work won’t feel authentic without lots of cursing. I’m getting used to alternating timelines but, unless it’s a time travel story, I usually prefer a sequential timeline.

[David]

Marc wrote: "Thanks to a literary treasure hunt, I ended up reading The Epic of Gilgamesh earlier this year. That's probably the oldest book I've ever read (c. 2100 BC..."

Well, now you're just showing off!

:-)

[David]

Doug wrote: "Oldest book, so far, this year was Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk, which I read after seeing the recent film semi-adapted from it. It was a fairly typical Russian novella of the period, but w..."

Saw the film. Meant to read the story but have not gotten around to it ... yet.

[Marc]

Ha! I actually thought I read that in 2017, so I didn't actually know what my answer was going to be for 2018.

[Lia]

I was so sure I could beat this game, but then Marc's is hard to top.

I think Homer's Odyssey is the oldest I've read this year, I've also read some fragments of Hesiod and Parmenides, I think Hesiod is maybe contemporary to Homer but I'm not sure. Either way, Gilgamesh wins.

For me, the most fruitful thing is discovering literature can be so many things, depending on its audiences, readers, and interpretive community. They may be inked on dead trees, but reader expectations and social environment do shape what kind of books get written, and once written, how they get interpreted.

I've been trying to learn Ancient Greek and memorize the first 5 lines of the Iliad, I've read multiple translations of the Iliad before, I've even read a few academic articles debating its details. But trying to listen to, recite, parse the text in Greek changes everything, the tone and the pacing and the length of the vowels completely dominated my mood before I even figured out what each word means. In English, it just reads like a catalogue of senseless violence; in Greek, you really feel the language groans and sighs with the epic, I don't feel nearly as detached. I haven't encountered many English works (especially contemporary ones) that do that.

Also, it amuses me to realize some big names in philosophy (e.g. Plato) actually had really, really limited mental concepts, so that coming up with the idea of "an idea" was supposedly profound. I keep thinking I'm not smart enough to understand what they're actually saying, maybe THEY weren't smart enough to get their ideas across with complex languages and vocabularies. (J/k!)

[Bryan--The Bee’s Knees]

About 5% of the books I read this year were published in 2000 or later, so the overwhelming majority were 'older'. It seems to me that older books operate under a lot of assumptions about common goals or ideas, and that often, their framework is about finding some kind of resolution within that commonality. Oddly enough, I read Lady Macbeth of Mtinsk as well this year--that's a good example really. The title character, Katerina, goes against community standards--she's punished for it, yes, but yet there is a sense that here was a strong personality who worked out her own (tragic) destiny within the structure of society she lived in.

Some of us here read The Nix, also with a woman who broke with convention (abandoning her child). What's interesting to me is the way authors in general chose to attack these kinds of problems today. In a case like The Nix, I don't think the author was particularly successful, but that doesn't mean other contemporary authors aren't. (It just happens to be one of the few I read.) In The NIx, the mother breaking with convention was treated very lightly. The focus was, rather, on how she became the person that she was. People may take away different messages from this, but it seemed to me as if the idea was that conventional boundaries are not important, it is only the fulfillment of the individual that matters.

[Whitney]

Lia's post made me realize the oldest book I read this year was not Paradise Lost, but The Golden Ass. So much depends on the the translator for how contemporary books like this feel. Like so many other old titles, I'm always impressed by how well some humor holds up through the ages.

[Lia]

Whitney wrote: "Lia's post made me realize the oldest book I read this year was not Paradise Lost, but The Golden Ass. So much depends on the the translator for how contemporary books like this feel. ..."

I completely agree. It seems more honest to compare the year of publication of that particular translation: a contemporary translation of Gilgamesh is much more reader-friendly than Pope's translation of the Odyssey, for example.

Obviously we still find their beliefs and values and attitudes and social relations and judgments very strange, but in terms of reading experience, so much depends upon (the red wheelbarrow ...) the translator, yet she is (almost) invisible to us!

[Whitney]

Hee hee. Couldn't resist, could you?

[Robert]

Night of the hunter by davis grubb. Could have beennwritten in 2018

[Robert]

Sorry for typo. I'm abroad (Rome) and using the mobile

[Lia]

I was going to pun redneck-translator and red wheelbarrow, but then I thought I might offend both the rednecks and the translators. Unless he’s Cory O’Brien:



[TL;DR: so much depends upon the translator, redneck or otherwise]

Aphrodite is the goddess of boning EVERYONE

ALL THE TIME

so it’s not like she’s gonna actually be faithful or anything

and in fact she is sort of making a habit of boning Ares the god of war

who is like the quarterback to her slutty cheerleader.

She is actually doing this IN HEPHAESTUS’S BED when he is out working at the forge

probably making armor for Ares even.

But Hephaestus gets wise to their crafty scheme

mainly because the Sun is a gossipy bitch

and he decides to show his cheating whore of a wife what’s what

WITH SCIENCE.

So he melts down the armor he was making for Ares

and he uses all the metal to make some chains

and then he uses his mad skills to turn these chains into a giant indestructible net

that is also invisible somehow

and then he hangs the net over his bed like a canopy

and the next time Aphrodite and Ares hop in there for a little bit of wango bango

Hephaestus leaps into the room all like

“SURPRISE, BITCH!”

Except he can’t leap because he has a gimp leg

but anyway he drops the net on them

and it traps them on his bed

BUT THE JOKE’S ON HIM because they had no intention of leaving the bed

and they’re both like “Welp

we’re caught.

Might as well continue our boner fiesta in plain view.”

BUT THE JOKE’S ON THEM

because Hephaestus invited all the other gods to come hang out in his bedroom today.

So they all start rolling in

and Dionysus is laughing his ass off

because he can totally see nipple

and Poseidon pokes Zeus and says “Would you tap that?”

and Zeus says “Probably I already have.”

(I am not making that up.

That shit is in The Odyssey.)

But really the joke is still on Hephaestus

because his wife is boning another man right in front of him

and even the best blacksmith cannot repair a broken relationship.

And Emily Wilson translating the "same" event:

The poet strummed and sang a charming song
about the love of fair-crowned Aphrodite
for Ares, who gave lavish gifts to her
and shamed the bed of Lord Hephaestus, where
they secretly had sex. The Sun God saw them,
and told Hephaestus—bitter news for him. 270
He marched into his forge to get revenge,
and set the mighty anvil on its block,
and hammered chains so strong that they could never
be broken or undone. He was so angry
at Ares. When his trap was made, he went
inside the room of his beloved bed,
and twined the mass of cables all around
the bedposts, and then hung them from the ceiling,
like slender spiderwebs, so finely made
that nobody could see them, even gods: 280
the craftsmanship was so ingenious.
When he had set that trap across the bed,
he traveled to the cultured town of Lemnos,
which was his favorite place in all the world.
Ares the golden rider had kept watch.
He saw Hephaestus, famous wonder-worker,
leaving his house, and went inside himself;
he wanted to make love with Aphrodite.
She had returned from visiting her father,
the mighty son of Cronus; there she sat. 290
Then Ares took her hand and said to her,
“My darling, let us go to bed. Hephaestus
is out of town; he must have gone to Lemnos
to see the Sintians whose speech is strange.”
She was excited to lie down with him;
they went to bed together. But the chains
ingenious Hephaestus had created
wrapped tight around them, so they could not move
or get up. Then they knew that they were trapped.
The limping god drew near—before he reached 300
the land of Lemnos, he had turned back home.
Troubled at heart, he came towards his house.
Standing there in the doorway, he was seized
by savage rage. He gave a mighty shout,
calling to all the gods,
“O Father Zeus,
and all you blessed gods who live forever,
look! You may laugh, but it is hard to bear.
See how my Aphrodite, child of Zeus,
is disrespecting me for being lame.
She loves destructive Ares, who is strong 310
and handsome. I am weak. I blame my parents.
If only I had not been born! But come,
see where those two are sleeping in my bed,
as lovers. I am horrified to see it.
But I predict they will not want to lie
longer like that, however great their love.
Soon they will want to wake up, but my trap
and chains will hold them fast, until her father
pays back the price I gave him for his daughter.
Her eyes stare at me like a dog. She is 320
so beautiful, but lacking self-control.”
The gods assembled at his house: Poseidon,
Earth-Shaker, helpful Hermes, and Apollo.
The goddesses stayed home, from modesty.
The blessed gods who give good things were standing
inside the doorway, and they burst out laughing,
at what a clever trap Hephaestus set.
And as they looked, they said to one another,

“Crime does not pay! The slow can beat the quick,
as now Hephaestus, who is lame and slow, 330
has used his skill to catch the fastest sprinter
of all those on Olympus. Ares owes
the price for his adultery.” They gossiped.
Apollo, son of Zeus, then said to Hermes,
“Hermes my brother, would you like to sleep
with golden Aphrodite, in her bed,
even weighed down by mighty chains?”
And Hermes
the sharp-eyed messenger replied, “Ah, brother,
Apollo lord of archery: if only!
I would be bound three times as tight or more 340
and let you gods and all your wives look on,
if only I could sleep with Aphrodite.”
Then laughter rose among the deathless gods.
Only Poseidon did not laugh. He begged
and pleaded with Hephaestus to release
Ares. He told the wonder-working god,
“Now let him go! I promise he will pay
the penalty in full among the gods,
just as you ask.”
The famous limping god
replied, “Poseidon, do not ask me this. 350
It is disgusting, bailing scoundrels out.
How could I bind you, while the gods look on,
if Ares should escape his bonds and debts?”

Poseidon, Lord of Earthquakes, answered him,
“Hephaestus, if he tries to dodge this debt,
I promise I will pay.”
The limping god
said, “Then, in courtesy to you, I must
do as you ask.” So using all his strength,
Hephaestus loosed the chains. The pair of lovers
were free from their constraints, and both jumped up. 360
Ares went off to Thrace, while Aphrodite
smiled as she went to Cyprus, to the island
of Paphos, where she had a fragrant altar
and sanctuary. The Graces washed her there,
and rubbed her with the magic oil that glows
upon immortals, and they dressed her up
in gorgeous clothes. She looked astonishing.

[Lia]

Robert wrote: "Sorry for typo. I'm abroad (Rome) and using the mobile"

So THAT'S what the Romans do!

[Drew]

This summer I read Winter Wheat by Mildred Walker which was originally published in 1944. The writing style is deceptively simple, the plot a straightforward coming-of-age story set mostly in the dry land wheat country of Montana. I was completely unprepared for the strong emotions this book evoked! The protagonist experiences heartbreak and career setbacks, learns the truth of her parents' lives, and grows so much emotionally.

[Jess]

I am actually currently reading my oldest book of the year War and Peace. I like classics because you can really see how literature has evolved and the birth of particular genres.

[Maggie]

I love listening to "classics" read by just the right voice. This summer it was Daniel Deronda with Nadia May and Barnaby Ridge with Simon Vance. I'm old. Books of the past have anyways been part of my life and are like comfortable old shoes, a favorite chair. John Irving said he rationed his reading of Dickens so that there would always be one more to look forward to. Well done audio books double the pool - or more, considering that multiple readers have read each book.

[Donna]

I'm currently reading Frankenstein in this, the year of it's 200th anniversary. It's language and the level of melodrama are very much reflective of the time in which it was written.

[Paul]

Neil wrote: "The oldest book I have read is Don Quixote. It stacks up well against the modern stuff I read as it seems to do a lot of experimental stuff."

Definitely! - Cervantes was post modern before there was a modern to be post of. My two favourite books on the art of the novel - by Kundera and Javier Cercas - both start from the premise that pretty much everything post Don Quixote is working through the different possibilities he explored.

My oldest this year isn't very old - The Waves from 1931. Although I don't think any British author since Woolf has come close to approaching what she did in her extraordinary series of novels.

[Whitney]

Paul wrote: "Definitely! - Cervantes was post modern before there was a modern to be post of. ..."

Cervantes went even more post modern in addressing unauthorized sequels to his book. He wrote his own sequel, in which Don Quixote finds out about the false stories being circulated about him - i.e. the unofficial sequel - and proceeds to mock it endlessly. This article discusses;

https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2015/...

[Pam]

Paul wrote: "Neil wrote: "The oldest book I have read is Don Quixote. It stacks up well against the modern stuff I read as it seems to do a lot of experimental stuff."

Definitely! - Cervantes was post modern b..."

I am currently reading Don Quixote but haven't gotten very far yet! I also started a The Man Who Invented Fiction: How Cervantes Ushered in the Modern World, which I'm hoping will keep me motivated to read DQ.

[LindaJ^]

I read the Don Quixote in my 4th year of high school Spanish -- 4 years, 4 different Spanish teachers! I many just have to reread it!

[Marc]

I don't know what I was expecting when I read Don Quixote but I wasn't expecting to love it so much from start to finish. I read Edith Grossman's translation.

[Kathleen]

I read some pretty old stuff this year: The Odyssey (Wilson's new translation), The Iliad, Romeo and Juliet, Mansfield Park and Great Expectations were the oldest. All fabulous.

When I read a classic it's like visiting a country for the first time. How did I live before without knowing what it's like to experience this? And once I've been to that place, all the references to it that I hear turn from grey to bright colors. Now I understand! So exciting. Same with classics.

Most of the classic books I read are of such solid quality, that I never used to compare them to newer ones, but (with the help of this group and other resources) now that I am more discriminating in the newer books I read, the gap between the two is shrinking a little.

[Peter]

The oldest book I read this year was the rendition of the Tao Te Ching that Ursula K. Le Guin prepared and commented. It really isn't anything I can compare to anything else. I read it twice in a row, and I still don't know what to think about it.