Now You're Speakin' My Language (or Dialect)

[Anna]

lol, I’m the ”medium dirty chai with oat milk and two shots of espresso to go please, hold the cinnamon” and then they’ll ask me all the things anyway.

[Anna]

(I can’t f*cking wait to get to say that again!!!!)

[Anna]

Gabi 😄 I used to work with international colleagues, but they were also database nerds so I don’t think they thought I was rude? Maybe they just hid it well.

[Eva]

Gabi wrote: ":D This reminds me of the intern notice how to communicate with our US branch back in my office days. They told us that we should phrase everything so polite and overwhelming that we feel it was br..."

😂😂

@Anna: God, yes, the luxury of sitting in a nice cafe surrounded by people... looking forward to post-lockdown times!

[YouKneeK]

Anna wrote: "So people were talking about how some people say wala when they mean voilà. I used to know someone online who always said viola, and it took me a fair while to figure out what they were trying to s..."

Haha, I’ve never seen anybody spell it viola before. I have to admit though that I didn’t know it was spelled with an à instead of an a. I’ve always spelled it voila. I shall henceforth attempt to spell it properly! Although I rarely use it anyway.

I’ve seen rogue and rouge mixed up a lot. I also see definitely and defiantly mixed up so often, even by people whose English spelling and grammar are otherwise pretty good, that I’m starting to wonder if I’ve missed some shift in meaning in the English language.

I’m curious, in countries where “American politeness” is not normal or expected, do people send IMs to colleagues at work with nothing more than a “Hi” and wait for a response before they type what they actually want? THIS DRIVES ME NUTS! I think it's rude, not polite, although I assume people think they're being polite. Not only have I now been interrupted from whatever complex thought process I was working through, but I still don’t even know what they want. So I’m held hostage for a few minutes waiting for them to type up their actual question or request, because I can’t get my head back on what I was doing when I know I’m about to be interrupted again.

I could go on another tangent about my annoyance with people using IMs for non-urgent communication, but I'd settle for people putting their entire message ("Hi" included, if they feel it's necessary) in a single message.

[Anna]

lol @ defiantly!

I can’t remember anyone sending a hi IM unless they wanted to chat about non-work stuff, like lunch plans maybe? Also none of that endless chatter at the end, just the stuff and then maybe an ok and a thx. Unless it’s my brother who will only reply if he disagrees with what has been said. It’s very hard to know if he’ll come to a family event for example, as silence=agreement but also how do I know he got the msg and isn’t dead? Family stuff is in whatsapp now so at least we can tell he’s seen it 😄

[YouKneeK]

LOL, I would be very confused by somebody who didn’t reply at all unless they disagreed!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

YouKneeK that drives me up the wall! I work throughout Europe, Middleeast and Africa, and it's only my one American colleague who does the hi-pause. Everyone else might start with a "Hello Allison, how are you?" But then they're already typing their actual question so it doesn't slow me down very much.

[Eva]

YouKneeK wrote: "Anna wrote: "So people were talking about how some people say wala when they mean voilà. I used to know someone online who always said viola, and it took me a fair while to figure out what they wer..."

"Hi" is so awful! I've seen people from many countries do that, though.

Even worse: "Hi!" ...10 minute pause after my reply, then "How are you?" ...10 minute pause... "I hope the weather is nice in Germany today?".... when what they *want* to say is "I'm panicking! I have a deadline and need you to tell me ..., please hurry!!" And they always seem to start the drawn-out "Hi" dialogue at around 5pm, just to make absolutely sure that by the time I finally find out about their urgent problem, I'm already off the clock and hungry for dinner. 😅 Be more like Jack Bauer, everyone. (Just without the torture and stuff.) Jack Bauer would never PM a "Hi" to you.

[Jemppu]

YouKneeK wrote: "...I’m curious, in countries where “American politeness” is not normal or expected, do people send IMs to colleagues at work with nothing more than a “Hi” and wait for a response before they type what they actually want? THIS DRIVES ME NUTS! I think it's rude, not polite, although I assume people think they're being polite. Not only have I now been interrupted from whatever complex thought process I was working through, but I still don’t even know what they want. So I’m held hostage for a few minutes waiting for them to type up their actual question or request, because I can’t get my head back on what I was doing when I know I’m about to be interrupted again...."

This. Seems to be the exact habit at our office too, at least amongst certain someones. One has learned to ignore the first 'ding' that pops up, but it can indeed still interrupt a thought process and leave you preparing for the need to switch over to check what you are being hailed for.

I don't think it's necessarily rude, just somewhat telling of a kind of personality, perhaps. Personally, I don't even like to type messages on platforms, where I know people can see the process of me typing. A curious, mild form of 'stage fright'? To know people can be watching/waiting while you try to format a message. What if I decide midway through I have nothing to say after all... the typing has already left people expecting me to say something. If I have something to say, which needs more careful wording, I'll likely opt to typing it on Notepad (always open) and copy-pasting it to the messaging platform (Teams on office matters).

True, though, what Allison says, too: that the 'hi' folks are usually already typing the thing they have to say without waiting for a reply. But the way they approach indicates as if they are indeed seeking an active back-and-worth; an immediate conversation - which can be more of a bother when trying to stay concentrated, than answering a query 'on your own time' - minutes difference as there might be.

[Anna]

Definitely (and defiantly?) a personality thing, but I think also depends on their role in the company? IT nerds are always less likely to chat about trivial stuff, unless it’s a friend, in which case I can be very chatty. But someone closer to the customer interface is probably more used to exchanging pleasantries.

(Slow typers should always email.)

[Anna]

(re: Jack Bauer

My old office had the same phones and ring tones as 24 😄 My phone never rang, but I used to hear other people’s phones ringing and it was surreal. I didn’t have to kill anyone in the server room though.)

[Jemppu]

Anna wrote: "(re: Jack Bauer

My old office had the same phones and ring tones as 24 😄 My phone never rang, but I used to hear other people’s phones ringing and it was surreal. I didn’t have to kill anyone in t..."

*ha*

I've never had a distinct certainty what my ringtone is at any given phone I've had; they are always on silent/vibrate. My ringtone at my previous job was the sound of a Nokia 207 (??) buzzing against a desk (if anyone rarely dared call me).

[Anna]

Yeah I mean my mobile/cell did ring on occasion, but I don’t think I ever touched the phone-phone. I dunno what to call it, not a landline since it was VoIP. The oldtimey looking thing with a tail and a moving speaky part

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Handset is what we call the phone with push buttons and a cord

[Jemppu]

*falls into a rabbit hole*

But which ones, Anna? 8D

[Anna]

Oh no hahah the desk ones that make the sound that takes up like 80% of each episode!

Thanks for the English, Allison!

[Jemppu]

Allison wrote: "Handset is what we call the phone with push buttons and a cord"

...I haven't touched one in years. Decades even? ._.

(I did, incidentally, just dug out an old modem and some phone cord during a spring cleaning, though... and I've never even used such devices in this house).

Anna wrote: "Oh no hahah the desk ones that make the sound that takes up like 80% of each episode!..."

I have an obvious, gaping 24 sized hole in my general knowledge, which I have been occasionally made aware of, but never sought to remedy.

[Anna]

I don’t remember 24 or the old office well enough but it was a Cisco phone I’m pretty sure and if you google 24 phone ringtone or something like that you’ll surely hear a million hours of it!

I know I have a pic because my American friends laughed at the Finnish electrical sockets, but if I still have it I can’t get to it now because I DON’T HAVE MY LAPTOP 😠

[Emmett]

Allison wrote: "YouKneeK that drives me up the wall! I work throughout Europe, Middleeast and Africa, and it's only my one American colleague who does the hi-pause. Everyone else might start with a "Hello Allison,..."

This is blowing my mind, haha. It took me a bit to wrap my head around why, but then I realized I work with very few Americans... so I never get it from them (because they don't exist). Honestly, I even get annoyed at "Hi Emmett, how are you?" I have told teams I have worked with before to just message me with their needs and that I don't think it's rude if they leave off the greeting.

Like, it's work. I don't care how you are. Do your job 😂

Eva wrote: "Even worse: "Hi!" ...10 minute pause after my reply, then "How are you?" ...10 minute pause... "I hope the weather is nice in Germany today?""

This is absolutely hellish. I would die.

[Jemppu]

Anna wrote: "...I know I have a pic because my American friends laughed at the Finnish electrical sockets, but if I still have it I can’t get to it now because I DON’T HAVE MY LAPTOP 😠 "

Sockets... I have a grievance about the placement of sockets in this place: the central most one of them is a lone, completely useless phone socket. The one that would be perfectly situated for an electrical one to eliminate the need to haul the vacuum cleaner from room to room.

Wishing you a swift reunion with your laptop 🙏🏻

[DivaDiane]

Oh don’t get me started with sockets. Having lived in the US, Germany, France and Italy (sort of), it still blows my mind how different the plugs/sockets are, especially around Europe. I have appliances and gadgets of all types, except maybe French and for those I definitely have adapters. Ugh! And the Brits add a switch to every socket so if you just plug something in and forget to turn on the socket your phone stays uncharged. Arrrrrrgh!!!

Sorry, I started and it’s not even about language.

[Anna]

Diane I think this is the proper thread for sockets 😄

[CBRetriever]

On the other hand, I, an American, was lectured by a boos (Dutch) because I wasn't polite enough in emails... He wanted me to use a proper salutation and sign off like it was a formal letter. Myself, I often would reply to an email with the answer to a question w/o a salutation. And on top of that all, he wanted the message to be brief.

However, I did get to tell him that his salutation of Hey was considered kinda rude and quote the American saying that "Hey (hay) is for horses" I'd call it a draw.

[Anna]

I was once greeted by someone in a position of authority, in English, by the dude saying ”hey ho”, which I took as it was intended. But then a third party made it extremely awkward by asking him why he was calling me a ho 😐

[Mel]

Eva wrote: "Same with being "excited": e.g. an American colleague recently gave a presentation to European staff about new data entry conventions, enthusing endlessly about how excited she was to be talking about these new data entry rules, and people just sort of looked at her quizzically, and she asked us if we weren't excited about them."

I'm an American, but I also can't stand this sort of thing. I've worked my whole career with Japanese colleagues, or other nationalities, but a couple years ago tried working at an international school for the first time with Americans and MAN was it annoying! Even in the realm of working with small children, I'm against the artificial hyperactive excitement for each and every activity. Just... calm down.

[Beth]

Melissa wrote: "I'm against the artificial hyperactive excitement for each and every activity. Just... calm down."

Also American and agreed. We're capable of receiving information without a type-A go-getter veneer over everything.

Amazon customer service in the US is largely handled by robots these days. I've only had to deal with that kind of transaction once, and can't remember how much "please and thank you and I'm sorry" is baked into the bot.

It's interesting to see how obsequious we're perceived as being! There's a social strata thing going on at times, where "business class" types don't have to follow the hi and please and thank you rules, and in some cases, make a performance of doing the exact opposite, acting like complete jerks to service staff.

[YouKneeK]

I always have to work through the fun conversations. :) Catching up on a few replies…

Allison wrote: "YouKneeK that drives me up the wall! I work throughout Europe, Middleeast and Africa, and it's only my one American colleague who does the hi-pause. Everyone else might start with a "Hello Allison, how are you?" But then they're already typing their actual question so it doesn't slow me down very much."

I have a few European colleagues I have semi-regular IM conversations with (Germany most often, sometimes England, Poland, and France) and they all seem to do the Hi first thing. I never know if they think they’re just humoring the American or if that’s their usual practice. Sounds like they think they're humoring me! Almost all my U.S. colleagues do it. It actually still bugs me even if they start typing immediately after, because they tend to have a lot to say and/or they’re very slow to type it while I’m stuck there waiting. It is at least a little better than waiting for a reply to the “Hi” first, though!

Jemppu wrote: "True, though, what Allison says, too: that the 'hi' folks are usually already typing the thing they have to say without waiting for a reply. But the way they approach indicates as if they are indeed seeking an active back-and-worth; an immediate conversation - which can be more of a bother when trying to stay concentrated, than answering a query 'on your own time' - minutes difference as there might be."

Yes, even though I know a lot of people don’t think of IMs this way, I have trouble seeing them as anything but a request to “Drop what you’re doing and talk to me RIGHT NOW!”, similar to a phone call but slower. But I admittedly have the type of personality that hates to be interrupted in any case, especially if I’m deeply into reading/writing/debugging some complicated program. The IMs I receive can sometimes be urgent (“urgent” within the context of a business relying on its all-important IT systems), so I don’t feel like I can wait to read them at a more convenient time. I have to at least find out what they need, and by then the interruption damage has already been done so I might as well finish the conversation.

Anna wrote: "Definitely (and defiantly?) a personality thing, but I think also depends on their role in the company? IT nerds are always less likely to chat about trivial stuff, unless it’s a friend, in which case I can be very chatty. But someone closer to the customer interface is probably more used to exchanging pleasantries."

LOL about the defiantly :) That would make a lot of sense to me, I wish it were closer to the same here! Probably 75% or more of the people I get IMs from are in IT but most of them have to send the “niceties” before they’ll get around to what they really want.

Emmett wrote: "I have told teams I have worked with before to just message me with their needs and that I don't think it's rude if they leave off the greeting."

I’ve been tempted to do that, but then I’m afraid they’ll think I’m rude for not wanting to be greeted by them! :) I do tell the people I work most closely with, on my immediate team, that I prefer e-mails to IMs for non-emergencies though, and they mostly respect that, so that helps cut down on some of it.

Beth wrote: " Also American and agreed. We're capable of receiving information without a type-A go-getter veneer over everything."

Hear here! (I’m never quite sure if it’s hear hear or here here, and Google usually says both are acceptable whenever I look it up, so I’m mixing and matching today.)

Maybe 15 years ago I was in a “train the trainer” type class, where several of us were taught a new software tool that we would then be expected to teach to people in our local area. This only involved U.S. colleagues. The class included presentation tips, and one of the tips was to occasionally call something “really cool” or “exciting” or something along those lines. They claimed it would make people sit up and pay attention to find out what the cool thing was. I don’t know, maybe that works for other people, but I’m most motivated by clear, concise training that is relevant to my job. Now anytime I hear a trainer do something like that, I can barely keep a straight face.

[CBRetriever]

I read somewhere about how to tell if someone was a Westerner/Southerner vs an Easterner. The W/S person would open a phone call with chitchat before getting to the subject of the call whereas an Easterner would go straight to the subject of the call and then chat.

[Michelle]

I'm so sorry that I missed this!!!

[DivaDiane]

Mary Catelli made a really good point about American’s motivation for explicit politeness and smiling on the “What are you reading thread”. She pointed out that if you don’t understand the implicit politeness of a culture explicit politeness is what happens. Same with smiling, if you don’t understand the language well.

(We) Americans were once a wild bunch of immigrants and those markers have been engrained in our culture. For better or worse. This makes a lot of sense to me.

[The Joy of Erudition]

YouKneeK wrote: "Haha, I’ve never seen anybody spell it viola before."

I see it all the time. I coincidentally just saw it again today, in message #12 here:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/826630...

[CBRetriever]

The Joy of Erudition wrote: "YouKneeK wrote: "Haha, I’ve never seen anybody spell it viola before."

I see it all the time. I coincidentally just saw it again today, in message #12 here:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/826630/d..."

maybe the app produces viola sounds?
or spews viola blossoms?

or maybe they have dyslexia of the fingers? I often type

sicne
teh
custoemr

I think I can't sync my two hands any more and one gets ahead of the other. I knew a poster on another board whose name was Anti(something), I I finally apologized in advance for every time I called him Anit

[The Joy of Erudition]

I wouldn't know unless I could hear them pronounce it.

[CBRetriever]

Touché

[Cheryl]

DivaDiane wrote: "Mary Catelli made a really good point about American’s motivation for explicit politeness and smiling on the “What are you reading thread”. She pointed out that if you don’t understand the implicit..."

Yes to this whole post, thank you.

(Raised in rural Wisconsin 5 decades ago.)

[Hans]

Well, this is a cool threat. On the subject of voilà/viola: I've been noticing a language quirk among some of my fellow Germans for a while now. Ok...our language is full of quirks, but this one irritates me quite a bit.

So, here it is: "Halleluja" is often used as an outcry of relief or when you manage to accomplish something really hard. Germans use it quite often, but it's probably not an exclusively German thing.

Now, to the quirk: A lot of people actually say "halleJULIA" instead of "halleluja". It always irritates me and I never know if they twist this on purpose or whether they just don't know that they are spelling it wrong.

Maybe it's something along the lines of "Regisseur", which is the (French) word we use for "director/producer", as in director/producer of a movie. Many people just can't spell it, maybe due to its French origin.

And now, here is a funny question I came across recently in German comedy show: What do you call the end parts of a loaf of bread?

[Janelle]

In Australia we call them the crusts.

[Leonie]

Janelle wrote: "In Australia we call them the crusts."

And they're the best bit of the bread!

[Hans]

Janelle wrote: "In Australia we call them the crusts."

That's funny, I call it "Kruste", which translates to crust. But there's actually a huge number of colloquial terms for that in Germany, depending on the area. For example: Kante or Kanten , Scherzerl, Knäppchen, Kuppe, Rinde, Knäusle, Knerzel and so on.

So, yeah....bread linguistics, it's a thing!

[Jemppu]

Hans wrote: "That's funny, I call it "Kruste", which translates to crust. But there's actually a huge number of colloquial terms for that in Germany, depending on the area. For example: Kante or Kanten ..."

Ah, that's where our 'kantti' comes from? Those are the end pieces in Finnish, too. While the whole crust of the bread is 'kuori' (general term for the 'skin' of a lot of things like fruit, vegetables, and tree bark).

[Hans]

Jemppu wrote: "Ah, that's where our 'kantti' comes from?..."

It might be, I suppose it has a similar origin? German, especially Northern German dialects and Nordic languages share a number of loan words or at least similar sounding words, but I think those relate mostly to the Danish/Swedish/Norwegian languages. Maybe from there it swept to Finland? I admit that I lack the necessary knowledge of Nordic languages to do more than guesswork at this point ;).

[DivaDiane]

Hans wrote: "A lot of people actually say "halleJULIA" instead of "halleluja"."

Really? I never heard anyone say it that way.

It might be useful to clarify that the pronunciation of "halleluja" sounds like "Hallelu-ya" as you would expect (alleluia in English). The J in German sounding like a Y does in English. So Hallejulia sounds like "Halle-yul-ee-a". Which is just weird.

Hans wrote: "And now, here is a funny question I came across recently in German comedy show: What do you call the end parts of a loaf of bread?"

I grew up calling that bit of the bread the Heel. And yes, that's the best part.

[Mel]

In Japanese the crust is called bread "ears." ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

[Hans]

DivaDiane wrote: "Hans wrote: "A lot of people actually say "halleJULIA" instead of "halleluja"."

Really? I never heard anyone say it that way.

It might be useful to clarify that the pronunciation of "halleluja" ..."

Yeah, I know a scary amount of people who actually spell it like that and I agree, it is absolutely just weird^^.

[CBRetriever]

Hans wrote: "And now, here is a funny question I came across recently in German comedy show: What do you call the end parts of a loaf of bread?"

We call them the bread heels. The crust is the entire browned surface around the bread and a lot of parents cut the crusts off sliced of bread for their toddlers. One also cuts the crust off for tea sandwiches.

[Stephanie]

Melissa wrote: "In Japanese the crust is called bread "ears." ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ"
I love this!!

I call them ends, and I've heard heels, too, but I would probably understand what someone meant if they said crust? But to me every piece of bread has crust, it's the edge of the bread. (I'm from the US)
(I had to edit this because I realized I mistyped, and I'm still not sure if it entirely makes sense.)

More bread-related thoughts -
I live in Taiwan and the translation most places use for any thick bread is "toast" which always throws me off because to me, toast has to be toasted...otherwise it's just bread?

(It's also fresh in my mind because just this morning a new Toast Shop opened next to my school and they gave us free breakfast.)

[CBRetriever]

re the toast confusion: in France grapes are raisins and raisins are raisins sec (dry)

ditto for plums as they are called prunes in France and prunes are called prunes sec

[The Joy of Erudition]

Stephanie wrote: "I live in Taiwan and the translation most places use for any thick bread is "toast""

I'd guess the reasoning on that is that the thick-sliced bread is the kind used for Texas toast, and maybe French toast too.

[Leonie]

In Australia, you can get sliced bread in both normal and toast cut. Toast cut is thicker.

We also have several types of dried grapes: raisins, sultanas, and currants. It depends on the type of grape used. I'd put all three types in my Christmas Cake.