Year Two Rules

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

1. These may not be popular with everybody but we decided that rather than open it up to discussion we're just going to roll with them. Sorry to be so autocratic but sometimes it's easier from an admin perspective to just make decisions.

2. 10 month season ending on Halloween. Rationale is we need an off season and the holidays works out best for everybody.

3. Page count top 5 English versions , unless you're actually reading the non-English version. . We'll be posting some screenshots for directions on this to ease confusion. Rationale is there were some 300K word count books counting less than some a third of that size. It's imperfect but unless we had a word count for every book out there there isn't a better way.

4. New point system:

Read: 1:1 - no change

Audio 3/4 - The feeling was the charts were dominated by audio book readers, myself included, and that it was a bit unfair to those reading. I sometimes pump out an audio book in a day that takes people a couple to read.

Graphic: 1/4 - no change

BR: 1/3 bonus - This was a 1/2 bonus. A lot of people thought it was too much and put a lot of pressure on people to do BRs and cause burnout. Being the main purpose is participation we don't want to eliminate it either.

Challenge 1/10 bonus - This was 1/4, same rationale as the BR bonus.

5. Draft - Will be a mod skype event, not broadcast, that we are looking forward to. It will be a snake draft starting with this years lowest scoring mod to the highest in odd rounds and reverse in even.

So

R1: Niki, Jenna/Angela, Margret, Scott
R2 Scott, Margret, J/A, Niki

And so on.

6. New people joining 100 post minimum.


I may update this periodically but this is the basis.

[Diana Stormblessed]

*Gulps loudly* I'll be in trouble with the audiobooks counting for less, but I agree that it's easier to listen than read and I support the decision.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Diana Stormblessed wrote: "*Gulps loudly* I'll be in trouble with the audiobooks counting for less, but I agree that it's easier to listen than read and I support the decision."

It hurts me a lot too. I'm about 60/40 audio for titles read but about 50/50 for page count. Generally I read longer and/or complicated books and do fluff or historical documentary type books on audio.

This was my suggestion knowing it would affect my numbers nearly as much as anybody but it was the fair thing to do.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

message 35: by Scott , The Tauntasauras 1 hour, 55 min ago
Scott Hitchcock (Lostinthewarrenofchaos) | 570 comments
Mod
OK I'll post one thead about us ending November 30th.

A second one detailing:

1. 10 months next year as well.

2. Highest page total for top 5 versions, I'll work on a screenshot for this.

I don't think this was meant to be part of the post...

Question: Do mods get secret, behind-the-scenes titles?... I still see you as open bathrobe guy here, not Tauntasaurus...

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Iain wrote: "Question: Do mods get secret, behind-the-scenes titles?... I still see you as open bathrobe guy here, not Tauntasaurus... ."

We have a separate private forum so we can discuss things such as this challenge. I didn't realize my copy and paste included that. So that's my secret title over there.

[Lena]

Sounds good and fair.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I'm intrigued by the changes... the audio nerf alone would knock me down from 1400 points to 1050... BR/Challenge changes drop me further to around 800-900... basically a pretty flat 1:1 pages read to points since I'm 95% audio... but the rest of the top 10-20 would take similar hits (except maybe Julia... I think she reads everything, they're just YA for the most part and go quick... but me Julia and Arkaden have all read 83,000 to 87,000 and I have a 300-400 point lead)

Like I said... intriguing changes... these changes would definitely make a Top 10 vs the Bottom 50 competition pointless...

[Bill]

Yeah outside of graphic novels I’m like 99% audio. Between that and the challenges I’m going to be way down.

[[deleted user]]

I only read physical books so this will even in out.

[Rob]

Yes Julia is 100% print or kindle. Her reading is way to down over the summer, not coming home from camp until 5. But we're going on vacation soon.....1;)

I like these rules - far less intense and the overall standings may be much closer. I don't mind it going the full twelve months, but then again having Thanksgiving and through the end of the year off would take off the pressure.

I tend to whyspersync a fair amount of my stuff or library and audiobook simultaneously. Mostly read, but fill in the blanks to pick up my pace when I'm out and about on audio. How would I count those?

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

Perhaps percentage read? 50%+ audio counts as audio? I do that occasionally too, but mine is usually only about 10% audio.

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

Although the rule is not indented to screw up your reading habits. Just input what you think is fair on a case by case basis.

[Rob]

Niki Hawkes wrote: "Although the rule is not indented to screw up your reading habits. Just input what you think is fair on a case by case basis."

Actually, the rule changes may save me money. if I'm getting more points for reading, I'll be less inclined to jump in for the audio too or in lieu of. The current system just pushes getting it done however you can.

[C.P.]

I do think that the lower points for audio makes sense. It's less effort for me to get through those, since I can listen while I commute. I'm about 50/50 audio and physical this year. I've never listened to that much audio in the past.

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

That's an awesome way to think about it. :)

Actually, it also supports my Overflowing Bookshelf Challenge and general desire to read more from my collection. Nice. :)

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Don't a couple people read along on their kindle while the narrator reads to them aloud?...

Rob wrote: "Niki Hawkes wrote: "Although the rule is not indented to screw up your reading habits. Just input what you think is fair on a case by case basis."

Actually, the rule changes may save me money. if ..."

Maybe just break the book into 2 entries... an estimate of how much of the book you listened to, and the rest in reading pages...

[Siobhan]

I think graphic novels are currently 1/4.

But I think new rule of 1/2 is actually better. I read two this year and took a lot more effort than I thought to take in the content. :)

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

That would be more precise for sure, but I think that level of detail is beyond the scope of how we want to run it.

[Siobhan]

Also really agree with the audio reduction. I think it evens it out about for print readers.

Also great plan for page count.

EDIT. I know the rules aren't up for debate anyway, just giving my two cents :)

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

Oh yeah I think that's a typo - it will remain at 1/4. 😬😁

[C.P.]

Siobhan wrote: "I think graphic novels are currently 1/4.

But I think new rule of 1/2 is actually better. I read two this year and took a lot more effort than I thought to take in the content. :)"

I don't read many graphic novels and they always take me a long time to read. If I actually want to remember anything from them, at least.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

It'll push me to read more physical books... I've been trying to make progress on that, but it's been sporadic this year... I need to really like the book to do it...

[C.P.]

Most of my fantasy I actually do physically. I don't like long audio books. And my overdrive usually doesn't have them anyway.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Siobhan wrote: "Also really agree with the audio reduction. I think it evens it out about for print readers.

Also great plan for page count.

EDIT. I know the rules aren't up for debate anyway, just giving my t..."

You can really feel page count discrepancies on audio... Wolfsong is a 400pg book, 18hrs audio...

Changes, the Dresden Files book is 450 pages and only 15hrs audio...

Generally, I expect a narrator to read 30 pages per hour at 1x speed..

[Virginie]

Niki Hawkes wrote: "Oh yeah I think that's a typo - it will remain at 1/4. 😬😁"

Oh, so it's a typo. I was kind of hoping it wasn't. I think I'm the team player that reads the most graphic novels... That would up my points a lot :D

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

Siobhan - thoughts and comments are always welcome. :) We'll definitely take everything into account. I think it was more of a "these are them until further notice" rather than a "hey! Let's try to coordinate new rules with a hundred people" type of thing, if that makes sense.

[Virginie]

Niki Hawkes wrote: "Siobhan - thoughts and comments are always welcome. :) We'll definitely take everything into account. I think it was more of a "these are them until further notice" rather than a "hey! Let's try to..."

Ha! That would be so chaotic!

I would be right there, on the sidelines, watching it unfold and eating popcorn :D

[Anni]

Virginie wrote: "Niki Hawkes wrote: "Siobhan - thoughts and comments are always welcome. :) We'll definitely take everything into account. I think it was more of a "these are them until further notice" rather than ..."

Salted Popcorn? :)

[Virginie]

Of course :p

[Rob]

I think we need commentators on the skype event.....Mel Kiper's mock draft, etc, just sayin'.

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

Lol popcorn indeed.

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

Or at the very least someone there to post updates in the feed live. :)

[Siobhan]

Makes sense, Niki! It would definitely be chaotic.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Rob wrote: "I think we need commentators on the skype event.....Mel Kiper's mock draft, etc, just sayin'."

I'm going to be trading all over the place!

[Tammie]

I read almost exclusively print and Kindle books so I agree with all the changes, except for maybe the challenges. I'm disappointed the challenges are going to count for so little now. The majority of the books I've read haven't been buddy reads. I didn't overload myself with them, I just kept it the way I always have, but every one of my reads except one have fit into a challenge and that helped me with points where the buddy reads didn't. But I support whatever decisions are made. I know it can't be easy to try and get this all on as even a playing field as possible.

[Yanique, Thread Master]

Niki Hawkes wrote: "Oh yeah I think that's a typo - it will remain at 1/4. 😬😁"

That's kinda sad, I got so excited because I definitely think this extreme penalty really discourages my graphic novel reading.

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

... or maybe encourages you to read more novels? ;)

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

Not that you aren't already.

[Ann]

Different perspective on the audio book thing (not meant as a request to change anything):

When I do audio, I often get distracted and end up reading many chapters twice. I've never felt this should count as re-read, because I wan't following closely enough the first time.

When I do print, I'm generally completely focused on it. Never a need to rewind. The real difference is the available time to be completely focused on reading.

If I'm having a book read to me while I'm reading a kindle version, I need to do 2x audio to keep up with my reading speed. If I'm not reading words, I hate having it go that fast, almost always 1x. I read much faster than I enjoy listening.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

We'll stick with 1/4 for graphic. Honestly I can do probably 8:1 ratio on a comparable book such as TWoK.

Tammie and Ann, I'm one of the biggest losers in this. I get a ton of BR, challenge and audio points and I'm losing in all three categories. The good news is we'll reevaluate again and take everybody's suggestions and incorporate them into the mod discussions.

[Miche]

Scott wrote: "We'll stick with 1/4 for graphic. Honestly I can do probably 8:1 ratio on a comparable book such as TWoK.

Tammie and Ann, I'm one of the biggest losers in this. I get a ton of BR, challenge and a..."

You might want to edit your first post, Scott, the typo at the graphic novels rule is still confusing people. :)

[Tammie]

Scott wrote: " Tammie and Ann, I'm one of the biggest losers in this. I get a ton of BR, challenge and a..."

Yes I realize that and I hope I did not come off as complaining. I am happy to participate and it's just for fun so it's all good. I think you all are doing a great job and it's hard to make everyone happy.

[Charlie]

I really like the page count rule! I find that GR usually has the American hardback as the default edition so that's the page count I've had to go by this year but I almost always read the UK paperback edition of things (since I'm in the UK) and this usually has a higher page count so I've often felt like I've been robbed of pages when I've read a 700 page book and only got points for 500 for example.

[Bea]

Charlie wrote: "I really like the page count rule! I find that GR usually has the American hardback as the default edition so that's the page count I've had to go by this year but I almost always read the UK paper..."

I agree!

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Miche wrote: "You might want to edit your first post, Scott, the typo at the graphic novels rule is still confusing people. :)"

Will do thanks.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Charlie wrote: "I really like the page count rule! I find that GR usually has the American hardback as the default edition so that's the page count I've had to go by this year but I almost always read the UK paper..."

Same here.

[Olivia]

Sounds good to me. Thank you for organising all of this.

[Jenna, I'd be free if not for Temper & Edgewalker]

Thanks for setting this up, Scott. Glad to see a lot of positive feedback from everyone!

[[deleted user]]

I tend to have the same or larger page count with the most read edition. Also, I’m definitely losing on challenges because every book
Fits one

[Virginie]

Charlie wrote: "I really like the page count rule! I find that GR usually has the American hardback as the default edition so that's the page count I've had to go by this year but I almost always read the UK paper..."

I'm really happy about that change, but for a very simple reason: I'm going to start Malazan in 2019 :D :D :D