Year Two Rules

[Lena]

Oh man Virginie! I might be ready to join you.

[Lena]

Yeah, next year I’m going to focus on short stories and few big books. Plus smut, obviously.

[Virginie]

Lena wrote: "Oh man Virginie! I might be ready to join you."

Yaaaaay :)

[Diana Stormblessed]

Virginie wrote: "Charlie wrote: "I really like the page count rule! I find that GR usually has the American hardback as the default edition so that's the page count I've had to go by this year but I almost always r..."

I might join you. I need want to give it a redo. I wasn't into it the first time around but sometimes I just need s second start to get me hooked.

[Diana Stormblessed]

Lena wrote: "Yeah, next year I’m going to focus on short stories and few big books. Plus smut, obviously."

I'll join you on the smut reads. ;-)

[Virginie]

Diana Stormblessed wrote: "I might join you. I need want to give it a redo. I wasn't into it the first time around but sometimes I just need s second start to get me hooked."

YAAAAAY! :D

[Virginie]

Lena wrote: "Yeah, next year I’m going to focus on short stories and few big books. Plus smut, obviously."

Obviously. We need to deserve to be called Fluffers.

[Lena]

Would be nice to have a Fluffer to reread The Bonds Series by Christine D’Abo starts with - The Bond that Ties Us.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

New definition...

Fluffer = somone you rope into easy Buddy Read bonus points with a little 2man BR :D

Next year's point totals favors Buddy re-reads, I think, since there's less penalty for re-reads with the lowered challenge points... right now, the fact re-reads can't be used by the Incomplete series challenge disincentivizes them if you read as much as I do...

[Miche]

Scott wrote: "Rationale is there were some 300K word count books counting less than some a third of that size. It's imperfect but unless we had a word count for every book out there there isn't a better way. "

Tell me about it... Angela and I lost more than 700 pages with Reaper's Gale and Toll the Hounds (around 360 pages less per book).

[Lena]

Iain wrote: "New definition...

Fluffer = somone you rope into easy Buddy Read bonus points with a little 2man BR :D

Two handed😉

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Double fist them... books...

[Saar The Book owl]

I agree with the rules, certainly for the audio books and the BR's: I don't do audio and there was a bit of pressure to do many BR's, so I think that would put the steam of the kettle.

I also agree with the 5 most popular editions, but can a rule also be added that if you read the translation and it has more pages than the original, the translation can be added? This was now the case for this competition.

[Narilka]

Just to confirm... the challenge starts on Jan 1, 2019? Also, do the books need to be started and completed in 2019 or if I start something on 12/31 that carries over will it count?

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

I believe we'll be keeping it the same - only books started and finished will count. It makes you start strategizing right out of the gate lol.

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

And yes Jan 1st 2019

[Narilka]

Niki Hawkes wrote: "I believe we'll be keeping it the same - only books started and finished will count. It makes you start strategizing right out of the gate lol."

Yes it does :)

[Laura]

Sounds good to me too! And I'm looking forward to it. :)

[Zaara]

It is only July 😂😂😂
Still...the new rules are bee-yooo-ti-full. Sooooo...thank you, Parents!

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

I did a quick edit of my spreadsheet to compare the old rules vs the new for this year's points.

Year 1 rules: 862.8 current points.
Year 2 update: 660.7 current points.

Point Differential: -202.1
Percentage Differential: -23.4%

I think other than Iain who has more points and a higher percentage of audio I'm probably the hardest hit because I also have a really high percentage of BRs and Challenges.

Still this isn't as bad as I thought and I didn't go back and factor in updating page counts to the highest of the top 5 most popular versions which if I had to guess would get me back at least 50 points.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Scott wrote: "I did a quick edit of my spreadsheet to compare the old rules vs the new for this year's points.

Year 1 rules: 862.8 current points.
Year 2 update: 660.7 current points.

Point Differential: -202..."

Your formulas are wrong... I'm still working on mine, so I can't tell you how bad mine is going to be yet, but basically, you need to change your formulas in columns NO to use column M instead of G... right now you're getting BR & challenge bonus points from the physical read points instead of the audiobook points for audiobook reads...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I finished implementing the year 2 formulas into my sheet... (they are completely useable next year, except I need a better formula than IFS() for checking graphic novel / audiobook)

Anyway:

Current Year 1 score: 1,444.2
Year 2 score with same books: 906.2
LOSS = -538 (37%)

I've listened to 99% of my books this year, with the exception of 2 romances and a handful of short stories... and 2 DNF'd novels...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Actually, I just solved the formula problem:

=switch("y", E5 , D5*0.0025 , Q5, D5*0.0075, D5*0.01)

This will be useful for next year... it's basically a backwards formula... instead of checking a cell with possible results, you check a result with possible cells... this was the only formula I could find that function like an if/else if/else if/else statement, so if all cells are N, it just returns the full points for the book, and not the audiobook/graphic novel penalty... my current formula throws errors if there isn't a Y/N answer in a cell, so breaks in an empty sheet...

[Diana Stormblessed]

Scott wrote: "I did a quick edit of my spreadsheet to compare the old rules vs the new for this year's points.

Year 1 rules: 862.8 current points.
Year 2 update: 660.7 current points.

Point Differential: -202..."

I think it would hit me super hard. All my books are challenges and brs and most are audiobook.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

He probably lost another 50-100 points... look how hard I was hit...

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Iain wrote: "I finished implementing the year 2 formulas into my sheet... .."

You were correct I forgot to update the letter in the BR and Challenge columns. I'm doing it differently than you are but they both work.

Audio 75%
=if(K4="y",C4*0.0075,C4*0.01)

BR 33% bonus
=if(E4="y",L4/3,0)

Challenge 10% bonus
=if(F4="y",L4/10,0)

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Iain wrote: "He probably lost another 50-100 points... look how hard I was hit..."

No, only down to 639

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I was trying to figure out a formula that would work for checking graphic novels and audiobooks without needing a hidden column as a middle step... your formula works because I don't think you did any graphic novels... I did White Sands back in February...

I think the clear winners are going to be Julie and Choko... I don't think they do much audiobooking... Choko does some, I think, but nowhere near what I do... I assume she'll show back up eventually with 2-3 months of unrecorded books to add to her sheets, once the summer is over... I could be wrong, tho... and Julie will start reading heavily again, soon, as well...

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

I think it's going to affect me too. But on the bright side I've been needing an extra kick in the butt to sit and read physical copies more often.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Iain wrote: "I was trying to figure out a formula that would work for checking graphic novels and audiobooks without needing a hidden column as a middle step... your formula works because I don't think you did ..."

I never do GN's so you're correct.

[Lundos]

The rule changes looks good to me.

Decreasing Challenge to 1/10 might be a bit much, but compared to the BR and Audio reductions it makes sense.

I only read and never do audios, so it won't hurt me so badly.

With regards to next year and leaders I believe Julia is 13-14, so next year might be more about boys and that stuff than reading fantasy books.

The Milestone levels should be decreased accordingly.

[Lundos]

When is the deadline for signing up?

A new sheet should be set up to be ready.

[Jenna, I'd be free if not for Temper & Edgewalker]

Lundos wrote: "When is the deadline for signing up?

A new sheet should be set up to be ready."

A new sheet will be set up after we organize the teams. :)

[Silvana]

thank you mods, those are great rules. Love the change on challenge and BR points.

"We got new rules, we count 'em...."

[Seán]

I like the new rules! The weighting seems pretty good all-round. I'd support Audio going as low as 2/3, but 3/4 is still a good change.

Challenges at 1/10 is definitely fair - it's been pretty easy to just find a challenge that a book I'm reading fits into for some extra points.

All good signs though, thanks for the work you guys are putting in!

[Karishma]

Diana Stormblessed wrote: "Lena wrote: "Yeah, next year I’m going to focus on short stories and few big books. Plus smut, obviously."

I'll join you on the smut reads. ;-)"

Lena wrote: "Yeah, next year I’m going to focus on short stories and few big books. Plus smut, obviously."

Me too!

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Seán wrote: "I like the new rules! The weighting seems pretty good all-round. I'd support Audio going as low as 2/3, but 3/4 is still a good change.

Challenges at 1/10 is definitely fair - it's been pretty ea..."

Thanks alot, Sean... anything to take me out of the running :P
My point losses are compounded... first everything I read is audio, so 75%... THEN the lowered bonus points are calculated based on the 75% of pages total... I think, from me and Scott's tests using this year's sheet, I lose quite a bit of points on doorstopper books like Stormlight Archive... the shorter the book, the lesser the impact...

I'm not planning on worrying about it as much, in general... fitting every book into a challenge becomes tiresome... I'm about a month behind on doing that, at this point, and still earning decent points just from pages and buddy reads...

All in all, I'll earn 62% as many points next year if I do what I did this year... would drop from 1661 points right now to 1036...

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

Now might be a good time to mention that we are probably going to leave points for audio the same so no one has to dock anything, but then add bonus points for physical reads. Same effect, a lot more fun lol.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Niki Hawkes wrote: "Now might be a good time to mention that we are probably going to leave points for audio the same so no one has to dock anything, but then add bonus points for physical reads. Same effect, a lot mo..."

The science of positive reinforcement, versus negative reinforcement...

There are articles online about the gamer response to an XP penalty, versus "Rested XP" which accumulate while you are logged out, so you earn XP faster for awhile upon logging in... same effect, different reactions... also, everyone likes bigger numbers...

Just remember, FRACTIONS... giving physical readers 125% points isn't the same as giving audiobooks 75% points... it should actually be 133% points...

75% = 3/4
133% = 4/3

[Angela Jr.]

I'm not the best at math (i did almost fail my a-level...), but whether you dock a quarter for audiobooks or add a quarter for physical books should amount to the same thing right? 🤔

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Angela Jr. wrote: "I'm not the best at math (i did almost fail my a-level...), but whether you dock a quarter for audiobooks or add a quarter for physical books should amount to the same thing right? 🤔"

No actually... that's what I was pointing out...

75% x 133% = 100%

(3/4) x (4/3) = 12/12 = 1

I guess it comes down to whether you want the difference in points to be relative or absolute...

31/42/56/75/100/125/156/195 are all 25% apart, relative to 100...

but 33/50/75/100/133/177/236 are all 33% apart, relative to 75

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Put another way...

100 x 75% = 75
75 x 125% = 93.75
93.75 x 75% = 70.31
70.31 x 125% = 87.89

if you start in the other direction:

100 x 125% = 125
125 x 75% = 93.75
93.75 x 125% = 117.19
117.19 x 75% = 87.89

Basically... if physical books only get 25% more points instead of 33%, I'll come out ahead, because I'll be earning more points than I would have with the original rules... both numerically, since there won't be a penalty, and relatively to everyone else, because there will be a smaller penalty for listening to 200-300 books at work, like I do... this has all gotten very "mathy"

[Siobhan]

Whatever maths you just did is so beyond me it looks so wrong. I'll just have to take your word for it! 😂😂

[Siobhan]

I like the idea of switching it to a positive though, Niki! Bonus points for physical read is nicer than docking points for audio.

[Angela Jr.]

Siobhan wrote: "Whatever maths you just did is so beyond me it looks so wrong. I'll just have to take your word for it! 😂😂"

My thoughts exactly 😅

[Hailee]

Siobhan wrote: "Whatever maths you just did is so beyond me it looks so wrong. I'll just have to take your word for it! 😂😂"

Took the words right out of my mouth lol

[Hailee]

Siobhan wrote: "I like the idea of switching it to a positive though, Niki! Bonus points for physical read is nicer than docking points for audio."

Me to. Plus I only ever read physical books so this definately appeals to me.

[Zaara]

Siobhan wrote: "Whatever maths you just did is so beyond me it looks so wrong. I'll just have to take your word for it! 😂😂"

Ok my first and overriding thought was that this one's a natural at teaching And also helping the people bcuz...*koff koff* Peter...but where is the fun in being too nice?

So I TOTALLY choose the second thing I thought, which is...
Wtf is this?
😱
It is not just wrong, it is sick and it made me want to cry...esp the part where he said /75/ is 33% apart from :-O 75. I am sure he is right in some twisted sequential way but what is that long number with the /sectioms/ which looks like a cemtipede and why are we suddenly making percentages bcuz doesn't the existence of Rob and Virginie...ahem...I mean...the Google Sheet obviate the need for this?

Also the 2019 competition doesn't exist yet. In reality. It only exists in the Shadesmar.
😈
😈😈
😈😈😈
😈😈😈😈
😈😈😈😈😈
(Closest I could find to evilpatternbeads)

*sepulchral voice*
We all mourn the loss of the brilliant Professor Nash...he was a ...until he started listening to the voices from his headheadphones and went over to the dark side.
Now we just cut him dead if we meet him in the street and refer to him as Odium.
*KICK*

Don't worry @Angela Jr...Siobhan and I are here. We totally rescue you from this medieval torture...this is similarly what he did to a nameless fourteen year old girl...
Now she lost her mind and wanders the Cosmere...calling herself Lift, apparently...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

The much simpler way to explain this was to just say 75% and 133% are reciprocal, because 3/4 x 4/3 = 12/12 = 1

The reciprocal of any fraction is to just flip the top and bottom...

[Virginie]

Math! MATH EVERYWHERE! WEEEEEEEEEE :D :D :D