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MISCELLANEOUS TOPICS > The 5G network: Are safety concerns valid? And how will 5G change things? And what about 6G and 7G in future?

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message 1: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Can someone explain what 5G is, please.
I keep hearing about it but don't understand difference from 4G...
What is 5G in a nutshell?

I've come across various articles and videos like these lately:

"5G and What Really Makes it Disturbing" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq4wB...

Intel's 5G future can turn humans into IoT devices https://www.techradar.com/news/phone-...

5G is expected to start reaching US customers, and others in many developed nations, by the end of the year...

So now is not a bad to to ask what y'all think about 5G conspiracy theories...Are they just paranoia and the fear of new technology?
Or might there be cause for concern with this new technology?


message 2: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 598 comments I hadn't heard about any conspiracy theories until you posted this.

As a technical person, I am looking forward to wide availability of 5G. Assuming I can get sane data prices from my provider, I could finally kick my cable company to the curb.


message 3: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 598 comments I listened to a little over half of the linked video. He took his time getting to the point. He thinks Transhumanists will be able to achieve transcendence with 5G and leave everyone else behind. I very much doubt it.


message 4: by David (new)

David Elkin | 506 comments excellent point James-Tin foil hats are everywhere!


message 5: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Okay, I'm getting slightly more up to speed on this topic now. One thing I notice is China is ahead of the US and every other country in terms of its 5G equipment and infrastructure in place.

Not sure the concerns about 5G and its interrelated privacy/health/transhumanist issues are only coming from tinfoil hat-style conspiracy extremists...It appears there are individuals and groups in the middle ground who have concerns.

For example, I got an email from a British friend who works in the technology sector and here are some excerpts of his in reply to my questions:

"5G uses a different frequencies and wavelengths - the outcry comes from some about the spectrum range being bad for health due to this."

"The catch is that everything will be centralised and easily fine tuned. ALL your data and resource ability will be on the remote server, not stored locally on the hard-drive (although they'll provide facility for that). You could be locked down by identity at that pinpoint as you login to the ISP, so for dystopians think about that?"

"In relation to the rumours or theories that 5G will be where transhumanism kicks in, it's due to more bandwidth and faster speeds = more ability for humans and devices to be connected..."


message 6: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 598 comments The higher bandwidth from 5G will enable people so not need local storage. I see that as a benefit. If you don't want your data in the cloud, they aren't going to stop making hard drives any time soon.

As for tracking concerns, that ship has sailed. Google, Facebook, Amazon, and many others are constantly tracking web activity even if we don't use their services. Fingerprinting users by browser and activity has gotten scary good. That's already here and better bandwidth isn't really a factor.


message 7: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 598 comments Iain, those are some good points. I was thinking shorter term. We actually have all the pieces to move everything to the cloud now except for reliable bandwidth. It may become very appealing to end users at the expense of consumer hardware manufacturers. It will be interesting to see how long that sort of shift will take.


message 8: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Does this quote "90% reduced energy needs through new efficient micro base station technology" in following article mean 5G might reduce pollution and/or energy needs for the planet?

5G: what it means and why there will never be a 6G https://business.carphonewarehouse.co...


message 9: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Sounds like a Brave New World... Do you feel we have too many tech-heads (who always seem to only foresee utopian futures and technological wonderlands) making all these decisions for us? I'm pro new inventions and not a Luddite, but at same I'm just wondering if there are enough philosophical thinkers and humanitarians involved in these decision making process for the Earth's future? In other words, have we got the balance right?


message 10: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments That book is calling Silicon Valley a "social wrecking ball"... Sheesh


message 11: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments I might watch that film tonight. Quite like how the trailer begins as a techno utopia then veers sharply toward a dystopian reality by the end...

So given 5G will allow for the internet of things to become a reality, could it be that although 5G is benign or neutral in nature it could indirectly lead to many potential problems? Or ethical issues?

Or have I been watching too many Sci fi films?


message 12: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments What your implying reminds me of that old British TV series The Prisoner where the lead actor patrick mcgoohan's catch phrase of rebellion was "I am not a number!"


message 13: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments He was Number 6 in that series. As a random aside, Mcgoohan played the evil English king in Braveheart in case you don't know. Totally random, I know!


message 14: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 598 comments I loved The Prisoner. I am one of those weirdos that actually liked the ending. McGoohan was pretty far out, in a good way.


message 15: by Kathi (new)

Kathi Defranc (kathid) James wrote: "Sounds like a Brave New World... Do you feel we have too many tech-heads (who always seem to only foresee utopian futures and technological wonderlands) making all these decisions for us? I'm pro n..."I I totally agree with you James, I feel we are very unbalanced right now, too many tech thinkers with no down to earth, realistic humanitarians, so many look toward the future but do not live now, in the present!


message 16: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 598 comments I work as a software developer and I've been thinking about the lack of diversity in IT. My group has nine developers. Only two are women and all of us are white. We maxed out at three women with one being South Asian. I've been hearing that IT generally is not very welcoming of diversity. I work at a major university that emphasizes inclusiveness so I'm not sure why we have the demographics we do.

My image of places like Silicon Valley is that it's a bro culture. I wonder how much that permeates the rest of the country.


message 17: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 598 comments My main languages are Java, Ruby/Rails and Bash shell scripting.

I've been keeping an eye on Go and Rust. One of the sysadmins here was using Go.

I'm also interested in Elixir, a Ruby looking language built on top of Erlang. I think the future is programming for concurrent processing even though most of my current stuff doesn't need it.


message 18: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 598 comments Returning to the 5G topic, this news was everywhere yesterday.

Qualcomm Announces Their First 5G mmWave Antenna Module: QTM052, Coming This Year
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13106/...


message 19: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 598 comments Presumably there's a minimum size for an effective antenna. Because the waves are tiny, the antenna can also be. This looks like something for shorter distances so there will need to be more repeaters and whatnot.


message 20: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments First 2 minutes of this video (before it turns weird) are perhaps worth a look...

Testing New 5G Router for EMF Radiation, Dangerous Levels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQhg_...


message 21: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Not sure at all if any of these health concerns are true or not, but just trying to balance out you tech boys promoting utopia in this thread :)

Jon Rappoport Report On 5G Roll-out, Internet Of Things & Implications For Humanity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrURS...


message 22: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments I also wonder if it's not so much that 5G has health implications, but more that 5G will be the point where a Brave New World kicks in and our lives start reflecting sci-fi movies of yesteryear with driverless cars, every electric device you can talk to, etc, etc?
And so 5G will be the point where all the ethical questions will become very pertinent, especially with spying on citizens...

Just a thought.


message 23: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Iain wrote: ""Can't wait for all those 'terms and conditions' caveats that will accompany as well . . . . ..."

Meaning if we drop dead by being 5G guinea pigs, our loved ones won't get a penny?


message 24: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Iain wrote: "Eh?

I was meaning, on the surface it will look like there's protections in place to stop that sort of intrusion just to placate us and allay any fears, and then you'll find that the 'small print'..."


Oh yeah...that too!


message 25: by Glen (new)

Glen Tucker (tommytucker) | 55 comments That would be fine if the individual made the agreement, but 5G has to be distributed via direct line of sight transmission. 5G is basically radar, and towards the microwave spectrum of electromagnetic radiation, acknowledge as dangerous to human beings.
Wholesale installation of 5G in cities is currently underway and cities are surreptitiously preparing by cutting down all the trees to enable this criterion to be met. No one is admitting how dangerous or foolhardy this is!


message 26: by Glen (new)

Glen Tucker (tommytucker) | 55 comments More important is the undemocratic nature of the behavior of the ”authorities”


message 27: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Agreed, Iain.
You think maybe it's a case where the right sort of govt can be helpful in protecting citizens, but the wrong type of govt (one that has conflicts of interest and is in bed with tech companies) can cause double trouble for citizens?


message 28: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Glen wrote: "More important is the undemocratic nature of the behavior of the ”authorities”"

Yes. That is a major worry.

But what about the concept of Little Brother in this regard?

Can Little Brother (and Little Sister) overthrow Big Brother? https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...?


message 29: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Yeah and it's almost moving so fast. For example, when you say "With A.I., IoT, Big Data and all the rest, the danger of dual-use(protection, intrusion) goes through the roof", my first thought was "are we as a civilization adequately prepared for all the ethical issues relating to this new tech?"


message 30: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 598 comments James, I think that's an easy no. We aren't prepared and can't be. We often don't know how technologies will be used until people actually use them.


message 31: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments 5G DANGER WARNING GOES MAINSTREAM: PC MAGAZINE https://www.pcmag.com/article/345387/...

Is this a case of paranoia? Or is it legit "underground knowledge" crossing over into the mainstream? Or a bit of both?


Highly respected tech authority PC Magazine warns of the health risks in their August 22, 2018 issue titled, THE PROBLEM WITH 5G:

“The technology might be the problem, but even worse for the companies behind it is the perception that 5G is already unsafe before they even get it on a single pole.

Because the industry is too cheap to study the health effects of the technology itself, it lets this sort of product out the door despite the fact that it has already been weaponized by the military. These frequencies are so poor at travelling long distances, they need a transmitter on nearly every telephone pole and light pole to make 5G work.

As usual, the mostly arrogant (or naïve) technology industry is caught flat-footed at the negative reaction. It always figures that the stupid public will buy into anything new and jazzy if it makes their handheld phone seem a little faster, and even pay more for the privilege of the upgrade.

One of the ways the industry has made this all work in the past is by quick implementation followed by a “Hey look it works! Nobody was killed” approach. That cannot happen with true 5G, which needs all these mini-towers all over the place. That leaves plenty more time for the public to get a clue and be freaked out.”

FULL ARTICLE: https://www.pcmag.com/article/345387/...

Another article I read stated this: "What makes 5G different is that it’s a shorter range focused microwave transmission. 5G is rolling out rapidly as a dubious ‘federal infrastructure improvement’ project. The Telecommunications Act of 1986 protects telcomm companies from liability for health effects from waves that fall into the prescribed ‘safe range’ that is not being health tested to verify it is safe. Yes–that’s the protection the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) gave to the telcomm corporations."


message 32: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 1360 comments Horrors! Going mainstream with your ideas, James. I can see this could be a problem!

What I notice is that here (a) 5G comes with your new modems, like it or not, and (b) it does not really get down to the other end of the house, so it is a nuisance. Ooops - that is hardly worthy of underground info is it? Sorry. (But I am still going to hit"post")


message 33: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments 5G EXPERIMENT IN THE NETHERLANDS IS A RESOUNDING… FAILURE https://gizadeathstar.com/2018/11/5g-...

HUNDREDS OF BIRDS DEAD DURING 5G EXPERIMENT IN THE HAGUE, NETHERLANDS https://www.sagaciousnewsnetwork.com/...


message 34: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments 5G And The IOT: Scientific Overview Of Human Health Risks https://ehtrust.org/key-issues/cell-p...


message 35: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments The dawn of the 5G world https://www.washingtonpost.com/brand-...
How 5G technology will ultimately alter the DNA of the digital experience


Yusuf_BigfootHunter (yusufii_king_bigfoothunter_) | 23 comments I've heard of people who became internet sensitive from using too much time on the phone and internet. These people could die if internet is put everywhere. Those people, if we are not being careful around this 5G thing we could become internet sensitive.


Yusuf_BigfootHunter (yusufii_king_bigfoothunter_) | 23 comments Also it is not changed at all! The internet speed is the same! It is just used as a weapon! As you heard someone said, maybe Bush or the guy who made Microsoft said that the "useless consumers" must be gotten rid of. He did not say it publicly but somehow it got into the public and maybe this 5G thing is the plan for New World Order. Be prepared.


Yusuf_BigfootHunter (yusufii_king_bigfoothunter_) | 23 comments Fine. I am not sure about the new world order part but I am pretty sure that a plan is going on. There are not much people that take action or protest or say something because they all end up quitting or are scared. Someone needs to stand up and say enough is enough. I hope y'all agree.


Yusuf_BigfootHunter (yusufii_king_bigfoothunter_) | 23 comments No I never disagreed but there are things you are not sure of these days. There are more truthful people but the liars are all in charge.
And when you ask for justice all you get is a Facebook. Go see what jimmy is saying etc. Like you said people are trying to maintain a media ego. That is what keeps them online and thus 5G.


message 40: by James, Group Founder (last edited Jan 24, 2019 08:12AM) (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments 5G is old school...

6G will achieve terabits-per-second speeds | Network World https://www.networkworld.com/article/...
Initial, upcoming 5G is going to be a disappointment, a University of Oulu researcher says. 6G, with frequencies up to terahertz, will be needed for true microsecond latency and unlimited bandwidth.


Yusuf_BigfootHunter (yusufii_king_bigfoothunter_) | 23 comments 5G is already here in Qatar. No difference whatsoever. Well for me that is...


Yusuf_BigfootHunter (yusufii_king_bigfoothunter_) | 23 comments 6G will be here within a decade. Like the time ago between the creation of 4G and 5G but maybe a decade or two. There probably won't be anyone else to use it.


message 43: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Iain wrote: "Sonic Weapons Technology Exposed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLeOQ...

A bit out there: but is there potential overlap or dual-use with 5G?"


Have you read anyone else saying sonic weapons could work via 5G?


message 44: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments I'm not sure, but let's test it out (Little Brother style) and beam those sonic weapons into Westminster and Capitol Hill :)


message 45: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Iain wrote: "UN Secretary General Confesses Ignorance on Known 5G Dangers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bard..."


You think even if they proved that 5G is a very dangerous technology (whether health risks or other risks), they won't be able to stop 5G? As governments, or their associates, have too much invested in it?


message 46: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Iain wrote: "Senator Patrick Colbeck Testifies Against 5G: Hearing 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-UEu..."


Bit of a worry there as that Senator said he's an engineer I think.


message 47: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Concerns Over 5G Tech https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2...

During the first half of the show, guest host Richard Syrett welcomed Magda Havas, Associate Professor of Environmental & Resource Studies at Trent University and an expert in electromagnetic pollution, for a discussion on the hazards of 5G wireless technology. The industry claims users are demanding faster download speeds and an effort to accelerate the rollout, scheduled for 2020, has already begun, Havas explained. In order for 5G to be fast it will have to utilize a higher frequency (between 30 and 300 GHz) which does not penetrate buildings well, so it would require numerous antennas for coverage, she continued, noting it will not be possible to avoid this type of radiation.

"I personally believe that 5G is going to be harmful... and to expose the entire planet to this radiation just doesn't make any sense to me without the proper testing," Havas said. The World Health Organization declared radio-frequency radiation (RFR) a possible carcinogen, as evidence from human epidemiological studies seems to show cell phone users have a greater risk of certain kinds of tumors associated with the head, she reported. "There is no longer any debate except if you bring scientists who work for the industry together with scientists who are independently funded," Havas disclosed. A recent peer-reviewed animal study demonstrated an increase in two tumor types associated with cell phone use for rats exposed to RFR. Scientific evidence is showing 5G is carcinogenic to humans, Havas asserted.


message 48: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 10924 comments Iain wrote: "Rare or 'hard to get a hold of' book that claims there has been a suppression, since the 1920s, of the evidence on the detrimental impact of wireless technology on health.

Microwaving Our Planet: ..."


Microwaving Our Planet...Sounds upbeat!


message 49: by Harry (new)

Harry Whitewolf | 1745 comments "5G will increase the current 700 to 5.8 billion microwaves per second for cell phone and Wi-Fi data to tablets and laptops to pulsed microwaves of 24 to 90 billion microwaves per second. Frequency Armageddon, therefore, is no exaggeration"

David Icke on 5G "Frequency Armageddon": https://www.davidicke.com/article/467...


message 50: by Harry (new)

Harry Whitewolf | 1745 comments Sounds like Skynet to me:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Qlp...


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