Audiobooks discussion
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Great Courses are not books
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There's a lot of audio content from Audible that Goodreads doesn't count as "books." For instance, some stand up routines and some of the radio dramas. Though it's sad to see the Great Courses go too. I agree it's pretty arbitrary at times.
For instance, by Goodreads rules, A Doll's House is technically not a book, since it's a recording of a performance, but it never gets deleted since there's other editions in print.
So, if you got the actors all sitting around in studios recording together, it'd be a book. But since you have the actors walking around the stage while the recording is going on, then it's technically not a book, even though the content would be similar.
Faith wrote: "Goodreads has decided that the Great Courses audiobooks are not books. Since Audible and GR are sister companies you would think that they would get their act together and treat the courses as book..."Does that mean that listening to a course does not count as a book read? The counting does not matter to me, but I do want them listed as a Goodreads item I can select. In the last few years I've used Goodreads to keep track of my reading and listening.
Kathleen wrote: "Faith wrote: "Goodreads has decided that the Great Courses audiobooks are not books. Since Audible and GR are sister companies you would think that they would get their act together and treat the c..."The Great Courses still seem to be listed, but in place of an author name it says "Not a Book" i don't know whether they count in the challenge.
Kathleen wrote: "Does that mean that listening to a course does not count as a book read? ..."In the short term, the author gets changed to "Not a Book" and the title either gets altered to either include "Not a Book" or to be just that. It makes it harder to find the books without ISBN/ASIN.
Often, manually entered editions (which Audible editions usually are) can get deleted altogether, since there's no fear of them being re-imported.
So, while there're still here (for now), I wouldn't count on them for long term record keeping.
Melanti wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "Does that mean that listening to a course does not count as a book read? ..."In the short term, the author gets changed to "Not a Book" and the title either gets altered to eithe..."
This is arbitrary. I don't much mind if GR thinks one of these is a book or not, for purposes of my own reading totals. But it's quite arrogant to delete the author's/narrator's name from the attribution. FWIW, for the few of these Courses that I own, I just now made a comment to list the name/author in the review segment. If this gets deleted, as I have read that has happened to some reviews (no, not going into that mess!) then so will my GR account and info, by me, permanently.
I have posted on the Liberians thread at the top. Several members have asked where GR has come up with this new policy. This question has been ignored. I’m trying to message GR support since that thread seems pointless to try and find clarification. Perhaps, if GRs receives enough feedback they will reverse this new unexplained policy.
Does this mean Shakespeare will be deleted because they are "performances"?Book burning may have returned in electronic form.
Richard wrote: "Does this mean Shakespeare will be deleted because they are "performances"?Book burning may have returned in electronic form."
If it's a recording of a live stage performance, theoretically, yes. If the actors sit in a sound booth recording the lines, then no.
That's theoretically, of course. In practice, there's so many editions of Romeo & Juliet that one more probably won't get noticed.
Isn't calling it book burning going a bit far though? They're not getting rid of the books from Audible. They're still available and can be reviewed elsewhere. Just not (easily) on Goodreads.
Melanti wrote: "Richard wrote: "Does this mean Shakespeare will be deleted because they are "performances"?Book burning may have returned in electronic form."
If it's a recording of a live stage performance, the..."
Book Banning then.
Why does Goodreads have a stake in not allowing people to track plays or Great Courses? Like why would they care? I'm bummed because I like to track them. But why would anyone want to prevent me from doing that?
Emily wrote: "Why does Goodreads have a stake in not allowing people to track plays or Great Courses? Like why would they care? I'm bummed because I like to track them. But why would anyone want to prevent me fr..."Could it be corporate influence on what was once a user driven website?
Richard wrote: "Book Banning then. ..."It's not banning either. This has no impact on whether or not you can purchase it or listen to it. You can even talk about them... Just not in the review space.
Richard wrote: "Could it be corporate influence on what was once a user driven website?..."
Logically, if this were corporate influence, it would be counted as a book, because they'd want to drive sales on Audible and Amazon.
Emily wrote: "Why does Goodreads have a stake in not allowing people to track plays or Great Courses? Like why would they care? I'm bummed because I like to track them. But why would anyone want to prevent me fr..."
Goodreads admittedly does have to draw the line somewhere -- for instance, I've seen people enter 1 page blog posts into the system! Those are hardly books!
Regardless, there's something pretty crazy about a system in which coloring books are considered books but audio lectures sold as audiobooks are not. I mean, the coloring books don't even have to have words!
Melanti wrote: "Richard wrote: "Book Banning then. ..."It's not banning either. This has no impact on whether or not you can purchase it or listen to it. You can even talk about them... Just not in the review space..."
What? So now, not only are the authors' names disappearing, we are constrained against posting about these NOT A BOOK items? I think it's time for GR to post its new rules about Great Courses and any other audio items they deem NOT A BOOK, so we have access to the 'real' rules and can evaluate our response based on that information.
And if Great Courses are not books, then coloring books, no matter how pricey (and some are!!), are NOT A BOOK either.
It actually is difficult to discuss the books now. Since, they are marked as Not a Book they don’t show up when the title is searched. The last one I read I had to go on amazon, search under books then find the asin number and type that into the search feature. It also makes no sense that they decided Great Courses are only lectures therefore not books since the main format is audio. When a search of lectures is done over 100 pages come up. This means that the GR staff has decided print bound lectures count as books but audiobooks don’t.
I would have thought that, given this audiobook group is the fastest growing and most active on GR, they would have consulted with this group to see how we need information presented on the site about the medium we use. I get it that not all things in print or audio are "books", and some standards have to be set, but this one seems not to take into account the needs of the users... and what is the GR mission if not to serve readers in whatever format they use?And coloring books? Not my idea of a "book", but I would never lobby GR to remove it as a category since it obviously serves a particular segment of GR users. It's not like such pages cost GR extra.
CatBookMom wrote: "What? So now, not only are the authors' names disappearing, we are constrained against posting about these NOT A BOOK items? ..."What I meant is that if book records don't exist, (or are hard to find) you won't be able to leave reviews for them.
Just an FYI, I noticed today that Hoopla recently added a lot of the Great Courses. Not sure how many they carried previously but I’m happy to see it as I don’t much care to “own” them and Hoopla has generous borrowing privileges.
Melanti wrote: "CatBookMom wrote: "What? So now, not only are the authors' names disappearing, we are constrained against posting about these NOT A BOOK items? ..."What I meant is that if book records don't exis..."
Ooops. My bad. Apparently I'm more annoyed about this change than I think I am. Sorry for the crankiness.
I noticed yesterday that at least one of my Great Courses is now "NOT A BOOK - The Vikings.....", as well as authored by "NOT A BOOK."
Wonder what you'd get by searching on NOT A BOOK?
CatBookMom wrote: "Melanti wrote: "CatBookMom wrote: "What? So now, not only are the authors' names disappearing, we are constrained against posting about these NOT A BOOK items? ..."What I meant is that if book re..."
Here is the URL you get if you click the author of "NOT A BOOK"
https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...
There appear to be 3000 entries. (Go to "more books".
CatBookMom, I don't think you are alone in feeling cranky over this change.I'm adding the book's title and author's name to my reviews.
Someone at Goodreads has a bug up the butt. A few years ago, I remember a comment from the Internet (may not have been Goodreads) where it was claimed audiobooks were NOT BOOKS and more like watching movies. The same person would probably also claim ebooks were not books too.
Some people want to believe in a limited definition of what a book should be.
I hope the high muckamucks reverse this decision
Greg wrote: "Someone at Goodreads has a bug up the butt. A few years ago, I remember a comment from the Internet (may not have been Goodreads) where it was claimed audiobooks were NOT BOOKS and more like watc..."
The site is NOT called Goodbooks, it is called Goodreads.
I am offended that audio presentations are discriminated against.
Many of the Great Courses have pdf materials which are largely the transcripts of the lectures, so there is a printed form.
NOT A BOOK!
Robin wrote: "Many of the Great Courses have pdf materials which are largely the transcripts of the lectures, so there is a printed form."It makes no sense to me but GRs is saying the transcripts also don’t count as books.
I had to laugh about GR recommending Great Courses that are "NOT A BOOK."
Here is a copy of a new message from rivka in the librarians group"Thanks to everyone for providing feedback and participating in an interesting discussion on the Great Courses question. As we do when these types of questions come up from our members and librarians, we reviewed our librarian policy that covers lectures like the Great Courses. We determined that it was time to update this policy. Here’s what we’re changing:
All recorded lectures such as The Great Courses may be added to the database provided they have an ISBN/ASIN, and if they are in the following formats:
* Audible
* Audio CD
* Audio book
Any related transcripts/coursebooks in hardcover or paperback format with their own ISBN/ASIN can also be listed in the database.
However, when it comes to DVDs, these will be suppressed. Any accompanying transcripts/coursebooks should not be listed either, as they’re an accessory to the DVD, unless they also accompany an audio version of the lectures that we accept.
We have updated the Librarian Manual with this information. Please keep in mind that there are millions of book records on Goodreads, and these changes will be made manually by volunteer librarians and our team. It may take some time for this new policy to be reflected in all affected records.
We are not planning to re-evaluate any other media at this time or as a result of this decision. However, we are more than happy to answer questions you may have, and please feel free to start a new thread or email us feedback about any areas of our current policies that may be unclear. "
Well, I think they made the right decision. However, since someone went through the list and wantonly marked the Great Books as "not a book" I can't feel too sorry for them having to fix it now.
Faith wrote: "Well, I think they made the right decision. However, since someone went through the list and wantonly marked the Great Books as "not a book" I can't feel too sorry for them having to fix it now."Did they fix it? I still see my Great Courses in my book list as NOT A BOOK. They said they can be added to the database, but apparently WE have to fix them all ourselves? I think Goodreads librarians made the changes so they should be the ones to change them all back.
Faith wrote: " I can't feel too sorry for them having to fix it now. "Sigh. No. What's going to most likely happen is that librarians will have to manually fix it as they come across it. I highly doubt the librarians who did it in the first place will actually reverse their edits.
Melanti wrote: "Faith wrote: " I can't feel too sorry for them having to fix it now. "Sigh. No. What's going to most likely happen is that librarians will have to manually fix it as they come across it. I highly..."
They are unlikely to "come across" these books since the GC books are no longer searchable in the database. They stupidly created a mess.
I started changing back some of the ones people here have shelved, but started running into issues. I'll have to wait for Rivka to answer a couple of questions before I can do much more.(You can't search for Great Books in the GR database, but what you can do is search individual people's bookshelves for Not A Book.)
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...