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Policies & Practices > Revised Policy: The Great Courses and other lectures

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message 1: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 45482 comments Mod
Thanks to everyone for providing feedback and participating in an interesting discussion on the Great Courses question. As we do when these types of questions come up from our members and librarians, we reviewed our librarian policy that covers lectures like the Great Courses. We determined that it was time to update this policy. Here’s what we’re changing:


All recorded lectures such as The Great Courses may be added to the database provided they have an ISBN/ASIN, and if they are in the following formats:
* Audible
* Audio CD
* Audio book

Any related transcripts/coursebooks in hardcover or paperback format with their own ISBN/ASIN can also be listed in the database.

However, when it comes to DVDs, these will be suppressed. Any accompanying transcripts/coursebooks should not be listed either, as they’re an accessory to the DVD, unless they also accompany an audio version of the lectures that we accept.


We have updated the Librarian Manual with this information. Please keep in mind that there are millions of book records on Goodreads, and these changes will be made manually by volunteer librarians and our team. It may take some time for this new policy to be reflected in all affected records.

We are not planning to re-evaluate any other media at this time or as a result of this decision. However, we are more than happy to answer questions you may have, and please feel free to start a new thread or email us feedback about any areas of our current policies that may be unclear.


message 2: by Melanti (new)

Melanti | 761 comments Rivka,
Could we get the "Do not edit" flags posted by Goodreads removed from these?

And how do we handle the ones where there's a DVD edition combined with the audio editions?


message 3: by Melanti (new)

Melanti | 761 comments Also, could we get this announcement posted on the "Not a Book - But it is!" thread?

Lots of librarian notes are linking to that thread as a reason not to edit the Great Courses record, and it'd be good if that thread also contained this information for future reference.

I think all the people who protested in that thread would be glad to hear the policy has been changed.


message 4: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 45482 comments Mod
Melanti wrote: "Could we get the "Do not edit" flags posted by Goodreads removed from these?"

Sure. If you link them, I can take care of that. Alternately, you can send an email via the Contact link and one of our Experts can so so.


Melanti wrote: "And how do we handle the ones where there's a DVD edition combined with the audio editions?"

Separate the editions. The DVD edition can be NAB'd, and the others not.


Melanti wrote: "Also, could we get this announcement posted on the "Not a Book - But it is!" thread?"

Done.


message 5: by Laurel (new)

Laurel (laurelb) | 19 comments Very happy to hear this news. Thank you.


message 6: by Melanie (new)

Melanie (mvalente89) | 1770 comments rivka wrote: "Separate the editions. The DVD edition can be NAB'd, and the others not."

Should the DVD first be merged to transfer shelvings and reviews to a valid edition? Then the DVD ISBN gets readded as a separate work and NABed?


message 7: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 45482 comments Mod
That's certainly one option. But just separating them and dealing with each according to the new policy is also fine.


message 8: by AlegnaB † (new)

AlegnaB † (alegnab) | 33 comments Thank you. 🙂


message 9: by Sue (new)

Sue | 6 comments Thank you for adding the link to this thread into the prior discussion :)


message 10: by Clif (new)

Clif Hostetler (clif_) | 15 comments Thanks.


message 11: by Outdoors (new)

Outdoors Nerd (outdoorsnerd) | 5 comments Good news. I am assuming this means the NOT A BOOK text is going to be removed then?

Happy to help out btw.


message 12: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 45482 comments Mod
Outdoors wrote: "I am assuming this means the NOT A BOOK text is going to be removed then?"

Except from DVDs, yes. But as explained, it will take some time.

If you have specific ones you would like edited as per the revised policy, links here are the way to go.


message 13: by Outdoors (new)

Outdoors Nerd (outdoorsnerd) | 5 comments Thanks, the fact you listened means a lot.


message 14: by Magen (new)

Magen (magenknuth) I am currently listening to the audio CD Origins of Great Ancient Civilizations and was unable to find it in the Goodreads database. However, when I tried to add it, I received this message:

Isbn is taken by an existing book with the title "NOT A BOOK: Origins of Great Ancient Civilizations". Search for 1598031066 in the header to view it. If you believe this is an error please double-check your data, then check the Goodreads Librarians group. ISBNs are optional so you can also add this book without an ISBN.


I wasn't approved as a librarian and I can't look into this, nor can I find a link through the search. Can someone else look into this please?


message 15: by Jillian (new)

Jillian | 18 comments Maygin here is the link to the book https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5.... Hopefully it will get added back in soon.


message 16: by Michael (new)

Michael Korleone (michaelkorleone) | 3881 comments #14-15 I've removed NAB and added original author.


message 17: by Jillian (new)

Jillian | 18 comments I still have one Great Courses book that still needs to be added back.

link: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

title: Great Minds of the Eastern Intellectual Tradition

author: Grant Hardy

format: Audible Audio


message 18: by Jonathan (last edited May 28, 2018 09:39AM) (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments Yep, sorry about the double-post, I wasn't sure which was the right place to put it. Should I take one down?


message 19: by Jonathan (last edited May 28, 2018 03:43PM) (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments Hi Corrine,

I posted here only because it is what Rivka specifically said to do in message #12. If you are sure that Rivka is wrong on this, then I will take it down.

Thanks,

Jonathan


message 20: by Jonathan (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments One final policy question:

As I am going through all the NAB-ed Great Courses, I am still finding a few non-NAB-ed Great Courses that do NOT have an ASIN or ISBN associated. Should I report these to be marked as NAB, or report them to be merged with their ASIN/ISBN counterparts? (It seems to me that we could take this opportunity to remove these apocryphal versions.)

Thanks,

Jonathan


message 21: by Emy (new)

Emy (emypt) | 5038 comments No ISBNs/ASINs and non valid works per Policy should be merged. If there's a "placeholder" edition, then we'd usually merge those into the relevant ISBN-ed edition. If in doubt, add them to the list on Looking for a Project and then we can assess each individually.


message 22: by Jonathan (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments Thanks Emy, will do!


message 23: by Jonathan (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments No worries Corrine, I appreciate your taking the effort to look into it!


message 24: by Jillian (new)

Jillian | 18 comments I noticed message 17 has been fixed, thanks.


message 25: by Jonathan (last edited May 28, 2018 08:42PM) (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments It has, Jillian, thanks!


☕ Lachgas ♿  (lachgas) | 7260 comments Not that I'd be so crazy to work on this mess again but seeing that https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2... on the author page ... wouldn't it be more ... raters/reviewers friendly to merge the clearly invalid DVD edition with all its ratings into a meanwhile valid audio edition and then NAB the ISBN of the DVD to prevent the reimport? (having that as a general ruling)

Would be a lot of work for supers (for some reason these DVDs are shelved/rated quite often ...) but - hopefully - someone not understanding/knowing how NAB works wouldn't try to just change it to get rid of the all caps "author" then.


☕ Lachgas ♿  (lachgas) | 7260 comments rivka these have the staff note https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1... (that hasn't a format listed anymore so maybe it is just something to merge)


☕ Lachgas ♿  (lachgas) | 7260 comments and I'm pretty sure I NABed counterparts of this one https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4... so there should be some in the NAB profile...


☕ Lachgas ♿  (lachgas) | 7260 comments can you deNAB ISBN 1598031481 rivka? (Elements of Jazz) there is a duplicate it could be combined with.

and The Everyday Gourmet: Baking Pastries and Desserts with ISBN 1598039008 - according to Amazon that ISBN should belong to https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2... so that looks a bit tricky :)


message 30: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 45482 comments Mod
☕ Lachgas ♿ wrote: "rivka these have the staff note https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1... (that hasn't a format listed anymore so maybe it is j..."


Merges pending.


message 31: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 45482 comments Mod
☕ Lachgas ♿ wrote: "can you deNAB ISBN 1598031481 rivka? (Elements of Jazz)"

If you link it, sure.


☕ Lachgas ♿  (lachgas) | 7260 comments rivka wrote: "☕ Lachgas ♿ wrote: "can you deNAB ISBN 1598031481 rivka? (Elements of Jazz)"

If you link it, sure."


If I could find it (search within NOT A BOOK doesn't work on the combine page in general or am I doing something wrong?)...
Hoped you could search by ISBN or such.
Or am I missing a trick working in the NAB?

but I did find some others :)
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/edit/3...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/edit/2...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...


message 33: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 45482 comments Mod
Notes removed from those 4.


message 36: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (last edited May 30, 2018 11:08AM) (new)

rivka | 45482 comments Mod
Notes removed from those 6.

And those 2.


message 37: by Arenda (new)

Arenda | 22181 comments ☕ Lachgas ♿ wrote: "rivka wrote: "☕ Lachgas ♿ wrote: "can you deNAB ISBN 1598031481 rivka? (Elements of Jazz)"

If you link it, sure."

If I could find it (search within NOT A BOOK doesn't work on the combine page in ..."


https://www.goodreads.com/work/editio...


☕ Lachgas ♿  (lachgas) | 7260 comments Arenda wrote: "☕ Lachgas ♿ wrote: "rivka wrote: "☕ Lachgas ♿ wrote: "can you deNAB ISBN 1598031481 rivka? (Elements of Jazz)"

If you link it, sure."

If I could find it (search within NOT A BOOK doesn't work on ..."


Thanks a lot Arenda!!


☕ Lachgas ♿  (lachgas) | 7260 comments thanks rivka, reverted the removings and added missing info if neccessary


message 40: by Jonathan (last edited May 30, 2018 11:28PM) (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments Below is the first list of 5 Great Courses that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, Title (many of which need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed), Author, Format & ASIN.

1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: A History of Eastern Europe
AUTHOR: Vejas Gabriel Liulevicius
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B017J9H1FQ

2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: Classics of British Literature
AUTHOR: John Sutherland
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNWC7Y

3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: The Age of Pericles
AUTHOR: Jeremy McInerney
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNVL30

4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Classical Archaeology of Ancient Greece and Rome
AUTHOR: John R. Hale
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNWBG6

5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: The Dead Sea Scrolls
AUTHOR: Gary A. Rendsburg
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNWL6G

The damage is worse than I imagined. There are literally hundreds of titles, now lost in the unsearchable world of NAB. (If you try to add them again, thinking it is the first time, you get an error saying it already exists.)

What a nightmare.

Anyway, I spent some significant time trying to locate and cross-reference these titles that need to be repaired. Given the large number of them, I am starting with those Audible Audio format (since I think these are the ones most likely to GoodReads users are most likely to be blocked over).

I decided to apply for Librarian status, in the hopes that I could do this myself, without taking others offline. In the meantime, I will post my findings in this thread.

Thank.


message 41: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 45482 comments Mod
If you want to avoid scaring off librarians who might be willing to tackle that, I suggest either posting them in smaller chunks (say, 5 to a post) or at least numbering them.

And please avoid criticizing work done by librarians following what was the current policy.


message 42: by Jonathan (last edited May 30, 2018 11:48PM) (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments Understood. My apologies for any offense given.

If it is of any consolation, my criticisms were directed toward the policy itself, not toward the librarians who were acting in accordance with said policies.

I will edit my above post to enumerate them, five at a time.

Again, I am sorry if my words were harsh. My motivation in all this is to help restore the Great Courses items, back to where they were before all this happened. Researching this list, cross-referencing to get the Author's name, verifying ASIN, etc, did not come without great effort. And I put in this effort because I genuinely want to help right the situation.

Thanks again.


message 43: by Jonathan (last edited May 30, 2018 11:30PM) (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments Below is a list of 5 Great Courses that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, Title (many of which need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed), Author, Format & ASIN.

1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: Cycles of American Political Thought
AUTHOR: Joseph F. Kobylka
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNWE2W

2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: The History and Achievements of the Islamic Golden Age
AUTHOR: Eamonn Gearon
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B01MS6WAFX

3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Critical Business Skills for Success
AUTHOR: Clinton O. Longenecker
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00VSWXFB0

4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: Peoples and Cultures of the World
AUTHOR: Edward Fischer
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO45KK

5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: Big Questions of Philosophy
AUTHOR: David K. Johnson
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B01A1FG1ZQ


message 44: by Jonathan (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments Below is a list of 5 Great Courses that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, Title (many of which need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed), Author, Format & ASIN.

1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: The Ottoman Empire
AUTHOR: Kenneth W. Harl
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B0727YWTB5

2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: The Rise of Rome
AUTHOR: Gregory S. Aldrete
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B078HHNHL3

3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Great Battles of the Ancient World
AUTHOR: Garrett G. Fagan
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNVLTO

4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: Alexander the Great and the Macedonian Empire
AUTHOR: Kenneth W. Harl
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNVOGE

5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: A History of British India
AUTHOR: Hayden J. Bellenoit
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B01MSZKS0L


message 45: by Jonathan (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments Below is a list of 5 Great Courses that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, Title (many of which need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed), Author, Format & ASIN.

1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Biology and Human Behavior
AUTHOR: Robert Sapolsky
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNW6AC

2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Late Antiquity: Crisis and Transformation
AUTHOR: Thomas F. X. Noble
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO43VQ

3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: A Brief History of Holiday Music
AUTHOR: Robert Greenberg
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B018INQQ0I

4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK. Emperors of Rome
AUTHOR: Garrett G. Fagan
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNXPD4

5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: Great Utopian and Dystopian Works of Literature
AUTHOR: Pamela Bedore
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B01N9R5PHE


message 46: by Jonathan (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments Below is a list of 5 Great Courses that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, Title (many of which need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed), Author, Format & ASIN.

1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: The History of Spain: Land on a Crossroad
AUTHOR: Joyce E. Salisbury
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B073PHQ2S6

2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: Alexander the Great and the Hellenistic Age
AUTHOR: Jeremy McInerney
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNVNHE

3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: The Great Courses Transformational Leadership
AUTHOR: Michael A. Roberto
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO6I82

4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: The Era Of The Crusades
AUTHOR: Kenneth W. Harl
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNWPPS

5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Famous Romans
AUTHOR: J. Rufus Fears
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNVFX6


message 47: by Jonathan (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments Below is a list of 5 Great Courses that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, Title (many of which need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed), Author, Format & ASIN.

1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: The World Was Never the Same: Events that Changed History
AUTHOR: J. Rufus Fears
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO5K4K

2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Particle Physics For Non Physicists: A Tour Of The Microcosmos
AUTHOR: Steven Pollock
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO5HNO

3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: The Aeneid of Virgil (The Great Courses)
AUTHOR: Elizabeth Vandiver
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNVGLW

4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: Ancient Empires before Alexander
AUTHOR: Robert L. Dise Jr.
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO6JY0

5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: A History of India
AUTHOR: Michael H. Fisher
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B01F2BYNQI


message 48: by Jonathan (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments Below is a list of 5 Great Courses that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, Title (many of which need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed), Author, Format & ASIN.

1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: Greece and Rome: An Integrated History of the Ancient Mediterranean
AUTHOR: Robert Garland
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNY5ME

2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Great World Religions: Hinduism
AUTHOR: Mark W. Muesse
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNW17K

3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: The African Experience: From 'Lucy' to Mandela
AUTHOR: Kenneth P. Vickery
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTNVE3M

4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: The Catholic Church: A History
AUTHOR: William R. Cook
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO4T60

5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: Secrets of Sleep Science: From Dreams to Disorders
AUTHOR: Craig H. Heller
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO4G2C


message 49: by Jonathan (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments Below is a list of 5 Great Courses that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, Title (many of which need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed), Author, Format & ASIN.

1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Money Management Skills
AUTHOR: Michael Finke
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00QWMLDVU

2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
TITLE: Plato's Republic
AUTHOR: David Roochnik
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO5NFG

3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Turning Points in Middle Eastern History
AUTHOR: Eamonn Gearon
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B01AYGLCQ0

4.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: NOT A BOOK: Myth in Human History (Great Courses, #2332)
AUTHOR: Grant L. Voth
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO53VU

5.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Lost Worlds of South America
AUTHOR: Edwin Barnhart
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO4DUW


message 50: by Jonathan (last edited May 30, 2018 11:39PM) (new)

Jonathan Hoyle (jonhoyle) | 731 comments Below is a list of 3 Great Courses that need to be un-NAB-ed. To save time, I have included the GoodReads link, Title (many of which need to have the "NOT A BOOK:" prefix removed), Author, Format & ASIN.

1.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Maya to Aztec: Ancient Mesoamerica Revealed
AUTHOR: Edwin Barnhart
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00UBLM7D6

2.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: The Story of Medieval England from King Arthur to the Tudor Conquest
AUTHOR: Jennifer Paxton
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO6ADA

3.
LINK: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
TITLE: Origins of Life
AUTHOR: Robert M. Hazen
FORMAT: Audible Audio
ASIN: B00DTO5C98


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