First Thoughts -- SPOILER SECTION

[Lucy]

Finished Wuthering Heights? Share your thoughts here!

Some questions to get you started:

* What was your favourite part of the book and who was your favourite character?
* What did you think of Heathcliff? Was the way he was portrayed how you expected him to be?
* How reliable are Nelly Dean and Lockwood as narrators?
* Did anything surprise you about the book?

[Amy]

I read Wuthering Heights at school and hated it. It has taken me over 10 years to feel like I could pick it up again without the associations from that time.
Having previously read and analysed it actually meant that I had a better understanding of the literary devices and plot, but I felt like I was remembering all the helpful stuff and it enabled me to enjoy the story more this time round.
I liked reading about the young first generation - Catherine and Heathcliff and Isabella and Linton, especially the night when Catherine and Heathcliff escape and run over to Thrushcross Grange. I don't think it is possible to have a favourite character. I dislike them all for some reason! If I had to pick it would be Hareton Earnshaw - a young man who overcomes his opressed and abuse filled youth with the good impulses fostered in him by Nelly and Catherine. I think he may be the most redeemed of them all...
Heathcliff is an excellent anti-hero. He is mostly a product of nurture, but his nature doesn't let him reflect and make 'moral' choices. He is so violent and cruel and tyrannical and scheming and marvellously Heathcliff.
Nelly and Lockwood's narration distances the reader from the story. Imagine if Catherine or Heathcliff had narrated the whole? Nelly's choices I find unusual. I want to read more about her and other people's opinions of her character. She has a motherly love for the children which taints her narration (see Lockwood's opinion of young Catherine vs Nelly's); yet she is less partial to Heathcliff as the book goes on. He always appears black in her telling, but his actions stop being excused as he grows from child to man.
I was surprised at how much I enjoyed reading it. I was pleased that I had to use my brain when reading to keep up with who was who and what was what. I don't often enjoy reading a book where I dislike ALL of the characters, yet this was oddly satisfying in Wuthering Heights.

[Ma]

I read Wuthering Heights like a blur. Doesn't mean I read fast, but that it was so passionate, full of anger and sadness and love but well mainly anger. I had always heard it mentioned as a great romance, a beautiful love story, and I really wasn't expecting that kind of love story. I enjoyed how harsh and savage it was, even tho, like Amy, I can't say I really liked any of the characters.
Nelly and Lockwood are ridiculously unreliable character, and that was so infuriating, as Nelly was aggravated by Catherine passion for an Heathcliff that she really doesn't like. And then you have Lockwood. It's also what is so brilliant about it all. Then I wonder why use such unreliable narrators? It helps the passion to be as intense as it is without being corny, as maybe you're taking some distance from it and we're not asked to identify so much with their slightly insane love. Also I remember in the BBC To Walk Invisible, that scene where Emily has the idea for the novel : it's hearsay, a local legend about two lovers, a murder, something like that. Maybe then she reproduces that mechanism of hearsay, emphasizing the pettiness of gossip?? I have no idea really, I have never studied it at school or anything, but I do wonder what's the official stance on this.
This book was such a powerful and surprising experience!!

[Louise]

Neither Nelly nor Lockwood is a reliable narrator. Lockwood hears things secondhand, so the best the reader will get from him is a third-hand account. He is also excitable, and casts the people involved into character-types (heroes, villains etc.)

Nelly is biased towards Cathy Earnshaw, and admits herself that she disliked Heathcliff from his arrival as a child. She is also melodramatic and prone to speculation. I wrote an essay about this during my degree, and it was one of the essays I most enjoyed. That is 3 or 4 years ago now, so I must revisit the book and revise my memory! I hope what I've learned about narrative in the intervening years will help me see more than I did as a student.

[Iris]

I have always loved Wuthering Heights! It's my favorite out of all the Bronte sister books.

I'm not sure if it's my favorite part, but the scene where Hareton is thrown off of the staircase by the drunken Hindley and Heathcliff catches him. It is one that has remained distinct in my memory. I've always wondered about this scene, if in some ways Heathcliff had always had a soft spot in his heart for Hareton.

I read this in high school, so I already knew the complexity of Heathcliff's character. But what surprised me was that this time around, I empathized with him. He's a man stripped and regained of his title. He's a man with false assumptions and loses the love of his life and his one true friend. Would I not want revenge? Although his actions are definitely extreme, I couldn't say that I wouldn't act similarly in those instances.

I love Hareton and Nelly. They're by far my favorite characters. Nelly always being the voice of reason, and Hareton always with a genuine and soft heart. I don't know if you could consider Nelly a reliable narrator as she does have biased feelings toward certain characters. But the tale she tales is definitely entertaining.

[Emma]

I've loved reading all these thoughts. I think that the fact we have two unreliable narrators is so fascinating. Our view of Heathcliff, Cathy and all the other characters is always second hand... through a biased lens.

I also wonder why Emily chose to tell the story in this way.

This is my fourth time reading the book, and it is one of my favourites. I discover new things each time.

[Jane]

Emma wrote: "I've loved reading all these thoughts. I think that the fact we have two unreliable narrators is so fascinating. Our view of Heathcliff, Cathy and all the other characters is always second hand... ..."

I wondered that too! I wasn't expecting the narration and it threw me off initially, I actually had to reread the first few chapters before moving forward. I remember being oddly disappointed - wasn't this supposed to be a passionate love story? what does Nelly know? I'm not sure where the misplaced idea of Heathcliff as a romantic hero came from, but it certainly stems from societal problems far beyond the binding of the book. As soon as that was clear to me, an understanding kind of clicked into place.

I'm still unsure if I like the biased lens or not but it undeniably adds something to the story. The distrust sets a lot up for the tone - it's deceptive, unpredictable, unsafe. Nelly's opinions aren't subtly influential, they're explicit and call us to question her. No one's ever thought she was reliable. Because we don't really know the inner-workings and heart of the story, we have to view it objectively.

We see that Heathcliff's actions are horrific, but if it were from his perspective, its possible he could justify his unjustifiable actions. Perspective is so important. There are countless stories where the hero we root for kills people and brutalizes in the name of revenge. I haven't read up on Emily Brontë from a literary theory perspective, so this could be completely wrong, but I think she might be criticizing the idea that literature is amoral and exists outside of society. At the very least, she doesn't want us to love Heathcliff lol.

[Jane]

Jane wrote: "Emma wrote: "I've loved reading all these thoughts. I think that the fact we have two unreliable narrators is so fascinating. Our view of Heathcliff, Cathy and all the other characters is always se..."

well shoot i thought replying to people's posts instead of making a new one addressing the questions would be shorter and more conversational but i got carried away

[Emily]

It was my first time reading Wuthering Heights (and now second Brontë novel!) and I absolutely loved it! It took me a while to get into it as I got quite confused at first at to who the characters were (two called Cathy threw me off instantly!) bare in mind I had very little knowledge of the story prior to going into it other than it was gothic literature and two of the characters were called Cathy and Heathcliff!

Was it just me or did anyone else skip over Joseph’s dialogue completely? I tried to read it but just couldn’t make sense of most of it so closer to the end I just skipped what he said and found I could just pick up what he said from the other characters.

[Kathleen]

Was it just me or did anyone else skip over Joseph’s dialogue completely? ."

Having an edition with good footnotes that provides a translation is really helpful here. Accidentally I realized my kindle version did.

[Kathleen]

One thing I admire about WH is how cleverly it is constructed. The use of narrators within narrators -- first the ridiculous Lockwood, then Nelly telling the story to Lockwood, then quoting various letters, long speeches by various people, etc -- is a radical choice that makes this crazy story work, in my view. It's almost like no one is telling the story -- it's just telling itself.

Also clever is the way everything doubles on itself, like the reuse of names, the way things are alike and yet unlike: the pairs of siblings, the contrasting houses, the way the families keep intermarrying.

The scene where Lockwood sees Cathy's ghost (or dreams it) is brilliant! Is it a dream or a ghost? Emily seems to point both ways in a way that sets up all the strangeness of the book.

I used to think no character was really likeable, but this time I found I was rooting for Hareton.

[Aldii - perfectioninbooks]

First time reading it and I have to say that I have so. many. mixed. feelings. I'm not even sure if I liked it or not. Sure thing is that my review of it must be one of the longest I have ever written, without doubt.

My favourite part? Did I even had a favourite part? I'm not sure... I don't know what to say, I literally just thought for five minutes and I. don't. know. It's so frustrating but this is what happened to me after reading it. I definitely liked seeing Catherine and Hareton, maybe that was my favourite part? But I don't think I can call it favourite. Maybe because when I say favourite I think of 'happy' or 'something I love' and the feelings this book created don't tend to be like that, neither their scenes.

I started reading this withouth knowing anything, I didn't know Wuthering Heights was even a place so...I didn't expect anything in specific about Heathcliff. However, having read only Austen's books and Little Women as previous classics definitely didn't prepare me for him. He was not what I would expect of a main male character when I think of classics. He definitely portrays some of the ugliest characteristics of human's character and I didn't have any good feelings toward him, despicing him most of the time. Even, with all that, when I read about his death (with the surprise that brought as I didn't think it would happen), I was kind of sad, maybe for the love he didn't live, or for that way of dying that I'm not sure if it was something mental, a kind of suicide (as he stopped eating and sleeping) but at the sametime there is this little doubt of something supernatural (like when he is about to eat and 'something' stops him). This might be just some crazy theories in my head, it's definitely possible, but something I wondered when I finished it. And, at the same time I was relieved that he was finally dead and wouldn't hurt people anymore.

Reading some of the comments above about the narrators was so interesting as it made me think of things I hadn't considered before. And now that I think of it, they're not reliable but I loved how the author used them to present the story. Like, Lockwood doesn't do anything other than listen, and while Nelly has more participation she is more of an intermediary.

I knew it would have gothic aspects but the ghosts things suprised me quite a bit. It also surprised me how I couldn't really have full good feelings towards any of the characters and while writing my review I was surprised by how much I liked Hareton (even with all his flaws) and while reading the whole book I wanted to read more of him. I really liked how he ended up with Catherine and was happy about that relationship!
Other thing that surprised me was the relationship between Heathcliff and Catherine E. and how even when I dislike it because it's not healthy, maybe a bit obsessive, it's raw love and that makes me like it in some way, admire it, or respect it, I haven't decided which adjective describes my feeling best (or if there's one that can do it).
The biggest surprise this book gave me are all my ambiguous thoughts, opposite feelings and how sad I felt because I ended it while reading it I had almost no good feelings nor for the story or characters.
Oh! And I almost forgot! I have this feeling that when I re-read it in the future I will see it in a different way, I will enjoy it in a different way (not that I can explain this feeling either)

[Aldii - perfectioninbooks]

Aldii - perfectioninbooks wrote: "First time reading it and I have to say that I have so. many. mixed. feelings. I'm not even sure if I liked it or not. Sure thing is that my review of it must be one of the longest I have ever writ..."

Woooow, that didn't feel like such a long comment while writing it...

[Rachel]

I finished Wuthering Heights last night and the whole reread just made me so happy! This was my fourth reread but as the last two were for college and university, this felt like the first reread I'd really done for myself.

My favourite part of this book has always been the representation of Heathcliff and Cathy's relationship. I like how transcendental their love is and how they cannot put those feelings into words at times. I always really adore how they go against religious expectations, like Cathy saying being with Heathcliff is preferable to heaven and Heathcliff not wanting Cathy to rest peacefully but to haunt him.

I also felt lots more love for the new generation this time round, especially Hareton and gained more dislike for Nelly, as I do with every reread.

[Alenka]

I have started only few days ago so my reading is progressing slowly. I have read the whole book before in my own language, and I have to say that

1) Heathcliff sounded much more menacing in Czech :D

2.) I have NO idea what Joseph says. Everytime he speaks I have to check my native-tongue edition to sort it out.

[Jane]

Ally wrote: "I have started only few days ago so my reading is progressing slowly. I have read the whole book before in my own language, and I have to say that

1) Heathcliff sounded much more menacing in Czech..."

lol even as a native english speaker, i had to skip over a lot of joseph's parts. i hope he didn't say anything too crucial lmao

[Kathleen]

hilarious, Ally, Czech and menacing are two words I seldom think of putting together. It must be all the Kundera.

[Lucy]

Hi everyone! My Wuthering Heights discussion has gone live on my channel, if you'd like to watch it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0-1Y...

I'm loving reading all your thoughts and will be dropping by to respond and chat over the next few weeks.
Also, Agnes Grey discussion posts are now up!

[Alenka]

I finished my re-read earlier today and it is time for Lucy´s original questions!

* What was your favourite part of the book and who was your favourite character?

My favourite part, the part I found the most interesting, was the chapter which has Catherine the Elder and Heathcliff meet for the last time. The passions are captured so vividly one almost aches for the characters. Almost. Because in the end I have a strong dislike to most of them, and because every pity I might have had for heathcliff and his doomed love just vanishes everytime he does anything. Because everything is awful, from taking advantage of a naive young girl to physical abuse and threats of death. A fascinating character to read about, but ultimately a horrible person, one I would dread to meet. Why anyone sees him as a romantic hero is beyond me. I think my favourite character was actually Hareton... or even Edgar Linton, who was really the most decent and devoted guy with no agenda but familial happiness.

* What did you think of Heathcliff? Was the way he was portrayed how you expected him to be?

For the first bit see above :D I admit that when I started the book the first time I expected a likeable hero, wronged by destiny and perhaps pushed by his desires to some dark places, but instead I got a devil´s minion. This was one of the reasons why, the first time I read the book, I only gave it 4 stars. I have since upped my rating, but the unpleasant feeling persists. The Wuthering Heights characters are not people I would like to hang out with.

* How reliable are Nelly Dean and Lockwood as narrators?

I have watched Lucy´s video and I must say that I have never questioned the narration before. I could see Nelly making herself look better (indeed in the book it is almost always she who seems to have a sound mind while everybody else is bonkers), but at the same time I would trust her, even if not word for word. Her story is full of emotions and her attachements make her voice realistic. As for Lockwood, I would think him reliable and unbiased.

* Did anything surprise you about the book?

Perhaps that some of the topics and things in it would scandalize many people even today. From hints of necrophilia (urgh) to domestic violence (though this is probably more shocking for us than the 19th century folk) and complete disregard of religion and God from the main characters. The book is wonderfully written and still as powerful as it once was.

[Grace]

I know, I'm terribly late to the party, but I've been wanting to talk about this book every since I read it back in December (sorry, Lucy, I couldn't wait for the New Year to delve into this classic!) But anyway, let's get into the discussion, shall we?

* What was your favourite part of the book and who was your favourite character?

My favorite part....hm... I think I would have to say that it's when Haerton and young Cathy form a friendship and eventual romance. I love these two characters so much because they show so much strength throughout the novel. Both have gone through some horrible things, but they manage to put the past behind and move on with hope for the future. These two young people decided that they will not be like their parents and changed for the better. That's probably what I love most about this book: we don't have to make the same mistakes as the people before us have, we can choose to do good.

* What did you think of Heathcliff? Was the way he was portrayed how you expected him to be?

Oh Heathcliff... he's... interesting. As a young boy, you can't help but feel sorry for him. He has to deal with so much abuse... you can't really blame him for who he becomes. However, I can't forgive him for the things he does either. No matter what his history, Heathcliff is a terrible person who borders on insanity. Going into the novel, I knew that Heathcliff was going to be unlikable (I actual expected myself to hate him as my past experience with a Bronte male character--Jane Eyre's Mr. Rochester--did not go so well for me), but I never could have imagined exactly how far Emily Bronte would dare go with the character! His role in the story is so fascinating as he seems to play three parts: at first it feels like he is our hero who must overcome his position in society (like Pip in Great Expectations) to get the girl of his dreams; but then he suddenly becomes a love interest for Catherine who takes center stage as her life comes to its tragic end; however, in the final third act of the novel, I no longer felt like Heathcliff was either the protagonist or love interest: he transformed into the antagonist of the novel's new protagonist--the young Catherine Linton. And that's my final taste of Heathcliff before his death: the tragic antagonist of Wuthering Heights.

* How reliable are Nelly Dean and Lockwood as narrators?

Honestly, I'm not sure. I don't think Lockwood would care to feed his journal any falsehoods, but he may be a bit biased on the beauty of young Cathy. Maybe she is not as lovely as he states, but I guess we'll never really know. Nelly ,however, could have exaggerated some of the points. I wouldn't put that below her.

* Did anything surprise you about the book?

Oh boy, plenty of things surprised me. From realizing midway that I dislike every character in the novel (only young Cathy and Haerton managed to steal my heart in the third act) to all the barriers Emily dared to break in writing this masterpiece, there are so many aspects of the novel that can leave the reader stunned. But for me, I'm most fascinated by how the authoress plays with the structure of the story and constantly switches up who is the protagonist and who is the antagonist. She seems to break every rule of her day in writing Wuthering Heights and I love her and her novel for it.

[Sotiris]

I read it again a few days ago and I think this time I paid more attention and I was able to find some things I had missed before.

My favorite piece, in a strange way, is where Catherine tries to become a friend with Hareton, it has a symbolism, learning to write in some way tames him, and removes him from the evil influence of Heathcliff.

Heathcliff is definitely one of the most distinguished characters in the history of literature, I do not think he's just an anti-hero or a typical Byronic hero, he is a character that symbolizes the wildness of nature, the animal passion that makes people lose themselves. In this capacity he does not harm people in his surrounding, he abolishes every concept of civilization and imposes a chaotic way of life. What I really like is that the writer is not looking for excuses, does not portray him as the victim of circumstances that he avenues to enforce justice, simply shows us that he lives as his nature imposes on him.

The narrators of the story obviously show us their subjective view on the part of civilized humanity that criticizes such behaviors.

The surprise when I first read about the book was the finding that the writer was not interested in writing a classic story about good people who are confronted with the bad guys, and in the end the law prevails. Almost all characters are grey, capable of anything, and in the end it is up to the reader to judge what's going on.

[Thia Reads A Lot]

I've meant to write my opinion of Wuthering Heights sooner, but here goes nothing.
(It was my first time reading it, and I didn't know anything about the story going in. I also haven't seen any adaptations, which is unusual for me.)

I didn't like this book. Here's a few reasons:
- Choice of narrator (Why have Lockwood repeating everything Nelly told him instead of simply having her tell the story? I'm not a fan of people who repeats whole conversations instead of paraphrasing. Also, it's all telling, telling, telling.)
- Heathcliff (simply horrible character, reminds me of Snape (which I also hate with a passion))
- Older Catherine (selfish, incorrigible)
- the boy Linton (pathetic, spineless)
- Joseph's interminable "sermons"
- Intermarrying so much (yes, I know these things happened, but I can't help it, it makes me feel queasy)
- Heathcliff's death (why then? simply for the plot to progress?)

If I had to pick one favourite part, it would be the father-daughter relationship between Edgar Linton and young Cathy. It was simply cruel of Heathcliff to keep Cathy from seeing him before he died.

Like I said, I didn't enjoy it at all. 1/5 stars.

[Grace]

Thia wrote: "I've meant to write my opinion of Wuthering Heights sooner, but here goes nothing.
(It was my first time reading it, and I didn't know anything about the story going in. I also haven't seen any ada..."

There are two kinds of people in the literary world: those that love Wuthering Heights and those that hate it. And there's no "I'm right" or "you're wrong". How you feel about this book simply depends on your taste in books. I personally loved Wuthering Heights. I love the fact that so many of the characters are despicable and I would have been content with finishing the book without a favorite character. I also find that the strange narration just makes it that much better! I think Emily's choice in how to tell the story is so creative and weird--I couldn't imagine any other narrative being more fitting! However, I think it's commonly agreed that Joseph's little speeches are intolerable and ,yes, the intermarrying does get weird when you focus on it (with these old books, I've learned to just separate the characters from their family ties and don't think too hard about it.) So yes, this book has a lot of dark, weird stuff in it and I don't blame you for disliking it!

But this is the first time I have ever heard anyone say they didn't see the point in Heathcliff's death. It's not something I really thought about. In fact, at the point of his death, I was relieved that he was gone! But I do think it's an interesting action to explore:

In my comment earlier I mentioned how I feel that the roles of characters are always changing. Maybe that's because who I rooted for constantly changes as the story progresses, but in that last act where Heathcliff dies, I view him as the villain. Therefore, it's almost like justice is served once he is dead for now our protagonist (the young Cathy) is free from his wicked vengeance that has plagued her. She, Thrushcross Grange, and Wuthering Heights are finally safe from his clutches. Now it is time to start over and make a better life. Perhaps this is why I love the book so much. Regardless if we're suppose to see the story this way or not, I find the true beauty of this book to be revealed as Heathcliff's life comes undone. I think his death makes the story that much better as that tiny little part of your heart that had felt sorry for him as a boy can feel a little comfort in knowing it's all over and he's with his Cathy, while the rest of your heart that has come to hate him may celebrate that he's dead and can't ruin anymore lives.
His death does move the story on: it moves it toward a happy ending.

[Erin]

Every book has people who love it, hate it or indifferent. If we all liked the same things it would be a boring world! 😊

All the characters are flawed, and that’s what I enjoyed about it. The narration has always felt untrustworthy to me. Nelly has her own biases and it could be like broken telephone where Lockwood misunderstands things (and he’s a bit ditzy in my opinion). But I always thought that Emily told it this way because she based the story on a piece of gossip she was told about a family. She heard it from someone who heard it from someone and she ran with that idea.

Intermarrying is creepy because we now know how wrong it is medically, but at that time period it was acceptable. People didn’t travel or meet other people outside family members and medical research hadn’t been done yet. So yes we cringe at the idea but it happened so often back then, look at the historic royal families!

As to the characters, I agree with you 100% but this is what made it realistic to me. People are cruel to one another, hold grudges, are selfish and are spineless and don’t always stand up for what’s right. With the narration we only hear Nelly’s portrayal of these people and whenever she speaks about herself she defends her actions as just, so again her biases might make these people extra horrible or selfish because that’s how she views them or she could be telling Lockwood a real juicy story and embellishing this to make it over the top.

[Thia Reads A Lot]

Grace wrote: "Thia wrote: "I've meant to write my opinion of Wuthering Heights sooner, but here goes nothing.
(It was my first time reading it, and I didn't know anything about the story going in. I also haven't..."

I see very well what the impact of Heathcliff's death was, my question was more, what did he die of? Broken heart? After years of tormenting everyone? I can't really believe that.
Shortly before he stops eating and sleeping and dies, he sees Cathy and Hareton getting closer. Does it have anything to do with his death? Was it just his time?
(It seems extremely convenient to me, or I might have missed something. I fell asleep I don't know how many times on this book, so it's possible I skipped the one page that mentioned it.)

[Daniela]

"Did I miss something here? Is this book beyond my literary capability? How did Emily turn a book that I thought it didn't made me feel anything made me feel an emotional bomb that explode in my face? I'm gonna have to read it again". It's still in the line for re-reading. I'm sorry for my weird way of writing, English is not my first language. :D

[Grace]

Thia wrote: "Grace wrote: "Thia wrote: "I've meant to write my opinion of Wuthering Heights sooner, but here goes nothing.
(It was my first time reading it, and I didn't know anything about the story going in. ..."

Personally, I believe that Heathcliff simply lost his will to live. Seeing that his plans to ruin Cathy and Haerton's lives are coming undone really just tips the iceberg for him. Since the death of the only person he ever truly loved, Heathcliff hasn't been living for anything except revenge on the Linton's. Literally, everything he does is to make Edgar and little Cathy miserable. So when Cathy and Haerton--the children of two men whom he despised with everything in him--manage to find happiness despite his cruelty, he sees no reason to go on. Heathcliff stops eating, stops sleeping: he stops living. Combining starvation, exhaustion, and a lack of will to live would, I personally believe, be enough to kill anyone (but there could have been some higher power at work here...I wouldn't be surprised if that's what Bronte intended.)