Artificial intelligence: is it that dangerous?

[Philip]

J. wrote: "I guess that demon dialers are going to be replaced by chat bots."

Chat bots are already being driven by AI either in presenting language more naturally or by analysing data behind scenes

[Ian]

Then we have Siri, which has yet to comprehend anything of my accent.

[J.]

Ian wrote: "Then we have Siri, which has yet to comprehend anything of my accent."

At least you're not Scottish.
https://youtu.be/XQCHoKAq9xA

[Lizzie]

If the soul is a separate field of energy from the body, then would that make us all artifiicial bodies created to just hold the soul? If the soul cannot be destroyed then maybe there is no "afterlife" but simply we are placed in a new form and rebooted? Didn't Thomas Aquinas philosphize that all animals had souls (and only humans had immortal souls)?

To me, if I were to define my soul, it's the culmulation of my experiences, intellect, emotions, and life that makes up my personality of who I am and what I believe. From what little I remember of philosophy, not an area I studied, my beliefs are probably in the area of Plato.

I have to wonder, though, if the soul can exist separate from the body in order to go to some "heaven", then why can't it exist in an artifical "body" as opposed to a biologically born body?

[Philip]

Lizzie wrote: "If the soul is a separate field of energy from the body, then would that make us all artifiicial bodies created to just hold the soul? If the soul cannot be destroyed then maybe there is no "afterl..."

See Fall or, Dodge in Hell which takes that exact p[remise i.e. humans uploading themselves to AI to avoid death

[Nik]

Lizzie wrote: "....I have to wonder, though, if the soul can exist separate from the body in order to go to some "heaven", then why can't it exist in an artifical "body" as opposed to a biologically born body?..."

With medicine getting ever more successful in replacement of limbs and organs, looks like you can put metal/plastic everywhere except for a brain and still have the ephemeral soul locked in.. It must be in the brain :)

[J.]

What the heck is a time crystal, and why are physicists obsessed with them?

https://www.popsci.com/science/what-i...

[J.]

Lizzie wrote: "I have to wonder, though, if the soul can exist separate from the body in order to go to some "heaven", then why can't it exist in an artifical "body" as opposed to a biologically born body?"

Imagine a world where machines are infested with the digital ghosts of formerly biological humans. How many people would take a hammer to their WiFi router just to make their dead relatives shut up?

[Ian]

J. wrote: "What the heck is a time crystal, and why are physicists obsessed with them?

https://www.popsci.com/science/what-i..."

According to Wikipedia: "In condensed matter physics, a time crystal is a quantum system of particles whose lowest-energy state is one in which the particles are in repetitive motion. The system cannot lose energy to the environment and come to rest because it is already in its quantum ground state."

My reading of this is that it doesn't absorb energy either because that would alter it, so basically it is something that sits there and does absolutely nothing. Like some politicians I know :-)

[Papaphilly]

J. wrote: "Lizzie wrote: "I have to wonder, though, if the soul can exist separate from the body in order to go to some "heaven", then why can't it exist in an artifical "body" as opposed to a biologically bo..."

Now is that a Science Fiction story or a Horror story?

[Papaphilly]

Ian wrote: "J. wrote: "My reading of this is that it doesn't absorb energy either because that would alter it, so basically it is something that sits there and does absolutely nothing. Like some politicians I know :-)..."

Or certain family members....

[J.]

There's a new video from Boston Dynamics. If my laptop looks at me funny, I'm nuking it from orbit.

https://youtu.be/tF4DML7FIWk

[Graeme]

Light based computing is now a reality offering a big uplift in computing power - underpins AI.

REF: (Youtube Video - 17 Minutes) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1R7E...

[Lizzie]

J. wrote: "Lizzie wrote: "I have to wonder, though, if the soul can exist separate from the body in order to go to some "heaven", then why can't it exist in an artifical "body" as opposed to a biologically bo..."

I don't have much of an extended family. My stepmom that I grew up with had no siblings. My father's brother died in WWII. Growing up, it was us, my 3 sisters, and my grandmother - no aunts, uncles, cousins, or other grandparents. So, the dead relatives are all people I never met and I would find interesting.

On the other hand, there are live ones that I would probably beat the router into submission - just imagining my sister being able to drop in and preach pentecostal religion to me makes me cringe. At least with Alexa, I can limit the drop ins. After my granddaughter dropped in on me while I was naked and had to crawl to Alexa to turn off the camera, no drop ins allowed.

[J.]

This one is creepy.

World's first living robots can now reproduce, scientists say
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/29/americ...

[[deleted user]]

J. wrote: "This one is creepy.

World's first living robots can now reproduce, scientists say
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/29/americ..."

Never mind listening to the science, it sounds like it'd probably be best to defund and jail the science.

While some of you guys are masked up at home staying safe until your next shot of mRNA is due, here's what's being primed to replace you. They'll do it all for free and without any breaks, you know. Not that it would worry Ian because he's retired.

[Nik]

Not everything connects to vaccines, Beau. As much as you call some ‘cultists’ , you don’t need to match their tenacity 😎
Exciting and novel stuff. Surely, these xenobots can be routed into something awful, but they probably provide an opportunity for a slew of excellent positive breakthroughs.

[[deleted user]]

I partly agree with you, Nik. Neither the covid vaccines nor the AI are particularly important in their own right but put them together witha few other 'unrelated' things and you're looking at one of the key moments in world history.

Humans who support this AI are like turkeys voting for Christmas.

[J.]

I imagine that they might be useful in applications such as self healing "skin" for prosthetic limbs.🦾

Of course, the technology could be scaled up to full androids.
https://youtu.be/rmmF11TKueA

[Graeme]

J. wrote: "This one is creepy.

World's first living robots can now reproduce, scientists say
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/29/americ..."

""Most people think of robots as made of metals and ceramics but it's not so much what a robot is made from but what it does, which is act on its own on behalf of people," said Josh Bongard, a computer science professor and robotics expert at the University of Vermont and lead author of the study.

While the prospect of self-replicating biotechnology could spark concern, the researchers said that the living machines were entirely contained in a lab and easily extinguished, as they are biodegradable and regulated by ethics experts."

First, the assumption of control and benevolence, followed by faith in process for safety.

Both are easily broken by a single bad/clumsy/ignorant actor.

The other concerning thing here is that the 'emergent properties,' were completely unpredicted and likely unpredictable indicating a pervasive and unrecognised ignorance of what this system could do.

The definition of flying blind.

[Scout]

Good analogy, Beau: "Humans who support this AI are like turkeys voting for Christmas." Ha!

And Graeme is right on: "Both are easily broken by a single bad/clumsy/ignorant actor.

The other concerning thing here is that the 'emergent properties,' were completely unpredicted and likely unpredictable indicating a pervasive and unrecognised ignorance of what this system could do.

The definition of flying blind."

With something as important and life-changing as AI, do we want to fly blind or think this thing out before acting?

[[deleted user]]

J. wrote: "I imagine that they might be useful in applications such as self healing "skin" for prosthetic limbs.🦾

Of course, the technology could be scaled up to full androids.
https://youtu.be/rmmF11TKueA"

If you were supreme dictator of the world for life, and it was guaranteed that people who thought just like you would govern us in succession until the end of time, I might welcome this scientific development for the reasons you stated.

Unfortunately, this technology will be in the hands of people like those whom conducted gain of function research in Wuhan, so I'm far from optimistic about it.

[Papaphilly]

Scout wrote: "With something as important and life-changing as AI, do we want to fly blind or think this thing out before acting?..."

I would hope people think this thing out. However, I fully expect someone to rush this through.

[J.]

U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles
https://www.reuters.com/business/auto...

[Scout]

So you get in a car and have no control over it. Not for me.

[Jim]

Artificial Intelligence is developed and programmed by human beings. More and more often, evidence of a serious lack of intelligence as demonstrated by the behavior of many human beings brings into question the wisdom in encouraging humans to create and manufacture the technology behind the development and evolution of artificial intelligence.

[[deleted user]]

Well said, Jim.

If you, Scout or J are interested, I'd like to recommend a brilliant book set in the future and based around self-driving cars:

The Passengers

[Jim]

Beau wrote: "Well said, Jim.

If you, Scout or J are interested, I'd like to recommend a brilliant book set in the future and based around self-driving cars:

The Passengers"

Beau,

Thank you for the recommendation.

The 20,633 ratings (4.09 average) and 3,503 reviews posted by readers of Mr. Marrs' science fiction novel indicate wide-spread agreement with your personal opinion. I have added it to the list of books which I intend to order from Amazon.

[J.]

Dual use of artificial-intelligence-powered drug discovery
https://www.nature.com/articles/s4225...

From the abstract:
"In less than 6 hours after starting on our in-house server, our model generated 40,000 molecules that scored within our desired threshold. In the process, the AI designed not only VX, but also many other known chemical warfare agents that we identified through visual confirmation with structures in public chemistry databases. Many new molecules were also designed that looked equally plausible."

[Lizzie]

Scout wrote: "So you get in a car and have no control over it. Not for me."

I admit that I refuse to leave the function on that turns the engine on and off when the car stops at lights and such. I want to know that if I see someone coming up behind me too fast that my car will move as soon as I step on the gas.

[Scout]

Right on!

[[deleted user]]

I was just picturing The Dukes of Hazard with the engine auto on/ off feature. Rosco P. Coltrane would have caught them in the 1st episode :)

[J.]

Read the conversations that helped convince a Google engineer an artificial intelligence chatbot had become sentient: 'I am often trying to figure out who and what I am'
https://www.businessinsider.com/googl...

[J.]

How dangerous is it?

Researchers in China claim they have developed 'mind-reading' artificial intelligence that can measure loyalty to the Chinese Communist Party, reports say
https://www.businessinsider.com/china...

[Guy]

J. wrote: "How dangerous is it?

Researchers in China claim they have developed 'mind-reading' artificial intelligence that can measure loyalty to the Chinese Communist Party, reports say
https://www.business..."
Quite a terrifying prospect, and completely plausible given the Chinese govt track record.

[Ian]

J. wrote: "How dangerous is it?

Researchers in China claim they have developed 'mind-reading' artificial intelligence that can measure loyalty to the Chinese Communist Party, reports say
https://www.business..."

If you can collect enough data, a computer algorithm seems likely to manage that. It is the data collection that is difficult.

[Papaphilly]

Guy wrote: "J. wrote: "How dangerous is it?

Researchers in China claim they have developed 'mind-reading' artificial intelligence that can measure loyalty to the Chinese Communist Party, reports say
https://w..."

Of it is the government playing games to keep their people in line.

[J.]

The CCP doesn't play games with their own people. They just kill them en masse.

[Ian]

J. wrote: "The CCP doesn't play games with their own people. They just kill them en masse."

Any evidence of en masse killings in recent times?

[Papaphilly]

Ian wrote: "J. wrote: "The CCP doesn't play games with their own people. They just kill them en masse."

Any evidence of en masse killings in recent times?"

No they have gotten much better at the publicity, now they only make a few people disappear at a time. The message gets sent.

[J.]

Ian wrote: "J. wrote: "The CCP doesn't play games with their own people. They just kill them en masse."

Any evidence of en masse killings in recent times?"

Is the Tiananmen Square Massacre recent enough? The CCP is actively suppressing information about that.

[J.]

Something about ethnic cleansing of a Muslim minority and Falun Gong followers also comes to mind.

[Ian]

Just to clarify, if we are referring to Uighers, they were trying to set up an East Turkestan, and had carried out a number of terrorist actions. They were dealt with. There is also talk about forced sterilization. That was because they broke the one-child policy, and that happened to any Chinese woman who had too many kids.

Tiananmen square was some time ago (about 1989 I think) Of course they suppress information about what happened. Everyone does it. The US does not publish the effects of all its military interventions in gory detail. There is no doubt the CCP intends to stay in charge, and it will do what it has to to maintain that. You have to remember that the history of China is remarkably bloody, with war lords all over the place. Currently, that has stopped. It might have been a little bloody stopping it, but I think most Chinese are extremely glad it has stopped, and they are not interested in groups that might restart it. That student protests would not appear to lead to that, once order starts to fall apart, who knows what would happen.

[J.]

Execution by organ procurement: Breaching the dead donor rule in China
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/f...

[Papaphilly]

Ian wrote: " Everyone does it. The US does not publish the effects of all its military interventions in gory detail. ..."

Fair enough....EXCEPT I am trying to remember the last time the United States slaughtered their own people.....

[Scout]

Post 388, J. I don't know whether to thank you or not for that info :-\. Not going to sleep better after having read it. But it's good to be informed.

[Scout]

How about this, Papa? "Four Kent State University students were killed and nine were injured on May 4, 1970, when members of the Ohio National Guard opened fire on a crowd gathered to protest the Vietnam War." Only a few lives, but still . . .

[Ian]

Papaphilly wrote: "Ian wrote: " Everyone does it. The US does not publish the effects of all its military interventions in gory detail. ..."

Fair enough....EXCEPT I am trying to remember the last time the United Sta..."

Somehow my answer to that never survived. The obvious answer is the Civil War. China had its Civil War about a hundred years later, and the aftermath is such the Chinese did not want a repeat. The treatment of the South after the US Civil War was different, but not exactly pleasant. The Chinese also felt for a long time that strictly speaking their civil war did not end properly because the opposition remained on Taiwan.

[J.]

The aftermath of the Commies and the Nationalists fighting it out was Taiwan. Yeah, the part of China where Mao couldn't eradicate Chinese culture with his Cultural Revolution. What do you think the CCP wants to do there?

BTW, didn't the Great Leap Forward kill more Chinese people than did the civil war?

[Ian]

Re BTW, neither of us knows, but there were about 34 million Americans, and that included about 4 million slaves, while China had over a billion people. Now, if each country divided roughly into half and they started fighting each other, guess which country has the most deaths.