World, Writing, Wealth discussion
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Artificial intelligence: is it that dangerous?
Returning to 30 years ago, when they held those chess competitions btw Karpov or Kasparov vs a computer and when they still had a chance (long lost since), would humans still have a chance vs an AI, like the latter would have to follow some rules, while humans - not necessarily, or would machines always be intelligently superior, if allowed some sort of self-determination?
I am reasonably confident you could, with proper effort, program AI so it would not be harmful. However, I am far from confident the proper effort would be made, and in the rush to do something, mistakes would be inevitable. I am also depressingly fearful that as the militaries got their hands on this, really bad things would happen. Successful coding would involve very limited objectives for the AI that had to be safe and useful. Exactly the opposite of what a military would want.
I agree with you on that point about the military. They have so much in the way of financial resources, and their focus isn't on developing AI that will make our daily lives better.
Ian wrote: "I am reasonably confident you could, with proper effort, program AI so it would not be harmful. However, I am far from confident the proper effort would be made, and in the rush to do something, mi..."All software is delivered with some level of defects.
Perhaps, Graeme, but it should be possible to keep the defects out of the critical parts. Also, some of these defects arise because developers prefer to fix the problems as they arise rather than find them in the initial code. With something this serious fixing on the run is not a permissible option, at least hopefully it isn't.
Ian wrote: "I am reasonably confident you could, with proper effort, program AI so it would not be harmful. However, I am far from confident the proper effort would be made, and in the rush to do something, mi..."I could paint several very real scenarios, developed by US think tank orgs regarding how AI could be used to spoof, set up or malfunction a response to a nuclear or missile threat. AI could be used to develop a virus that could break down current cyber defenses or like the recent Russia hack, lay dormant until needed by a larger app. My point is that while I am not sure that I agree with the premise that we can keep ahead of post-singularity AI developments when we cannot even track how the current AI reprogram themselves, but one of the clearest dangers of AI is to enhance existing weapons or otherwise weaponize our infrastructure. IMHO.
I said it would be possible, not that perforce it would happen. Some time before, the discussion was about self-aware AI, and I was thinking along those lines. You can't stop military guys programming missiles, say, but it is imperative you take steps to stop the missiles deciding to go off and kill some third parties. It is bad enough drone operators/commanders apparently occasionally doing that right now, more from ignorance, without machines doing it at random, or even worse sending all loaded missiles on their way to wherever.
Ian wrote: "Perhaps, Graeme, but it should be possible to keep the defects out of the critical parts. Also, some of these defects arise because developers prefer to fix the problems as they arise rather than f..."F-22 Deemed Too Expensive to Fix for 6 Years Finally Ready to Fly
https://www.military.com/defensetech/...
From the article:
""This was a gainfully employed airplane when she was working," said Steve Rainey, Lockheed Martin F-22 chief test pilot and member of the F-22 Combined Test Force at Edwards."
That is a military contactor lying out of their a**. The US has been at war during the F22's entire operational life, and we have kept them at home.
NEVER TRUST A MILITARY CONTRACTOR!
No disagreement with your last line J. However, if we cannot overcome that sort of aberrant behaviour we should most certainly avoid sentient AI
Ian wrote: "No disagreement with your last line J. However, if we cannot overcome that sort of aberrant behaviour we should most certainly avoid sentient AI"I have posted as much several times in this thread.
Me, too. But who you gonna call? That's always the question with no answer.
The Air Force Flew an AI Copilot on a U-2. Now, the Algorithm Has a New Mission.https://www.popularmechanics.com/mili...
Game developers will soon be conscripted :-(
Boston Dynamics has released a half hour sales video for Spot, on their YouTube channel.https://youtu.be/WvTdNwyADZc
There are some interesting insights into how the interface, and therefore the AI, works. I am impressed by the range of motion in Spot.
That's creepy. It looks like it has a snake's head
Ian wrote: "Game developers will soon be conscripted :-("Already happened, a whole heap were recruited in early 90s a start of programme before games sales became bigger than movies. They helped develop flight simulators and now pilots use MS Flight Sim or X-Plane to achieve professional qualifications on the route to professional piloting. Hijackers included.
Philip wrote: "Ian wrote: "Game developers will soon be conscripted :-("Already happened, a whole heap were recruited in early 90s a start of programme before games sales became bigger than movies. They helped ..."
At the Port, they use them to train new crane operators.
Facebook has been busy.Facebook shows off how you’ll use its neural wristbands with AR glasses
https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/18/22...
Amazon built an AI tool to hire people but had to shut it down because it was discriminating against womenhttps://www.businessinsider.com/amazo...
Among the claims made by the article is the assertion that the AI could pick up on unconscious biases. How? All that the AI knows is the resumé data. It doesn't know that the word, "woman" or that historically women's schools mean anything other than what they correlate to in the data set. Was the data set rigged? Were highly qualified women less likely to submit resumés to Amazon than their male counterparts were? Were women who graduated from Harvard less likely to apply at Amazon than women who graduated from Vassar?
If the applicants had to fill in a questionnaire the questions may have been biased/loaded.
Having read the article, it cites the things that first came to my mind. Prior resumes that it reviewed were weighted towards coming from men and prior lack of hiring of women affecting the alogorithms. Is it even possible for humans to program these things without bias being introduced, because we all have biases.
Lizzie wrote: "Having read the article, it cites the things that first came to my mind. Prior resumes that it reviewed were weighted towards coming from men and prior lack of hiring of women affecting the alogori..."The only way it could work is if all candidates had similar experience and backgrounds. For better or worse, women tend to have thinner resumes due to children, marriage, later starts, different choices... It does not mean there is an inherent bias against/for one type of candidate. I wonder if the job search was for teachers, nurses, admin, would it bias toward women.
Selecting one from a few or few from many is intrinsically biased: young/old, overqualified/underqualified, smart/stupid. Not sure artificial auto-correcting lest be suspected discriminating is a solution. Better make sure you pay the same for the same job to both genders. Specifically regarding Amazon, drivers that need to urinate in bottles seems a graver problem than AI: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-can...
If you want the best candidate, it is also subjectively biased due to the employer's concept of "best". Having previously hired for a small company, I can assure you oit is a difficult decision because getting it wrong can be expensive.
Nik wrote: "Specifically regarding Amazon, drivers that need to urinate in bottles seems a graver problem than AI: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-can......"In all fairness to Amazon, it is a problem for trucking in general. Every driver has a pee bottle and I did too when I drove.
Ian wrote: "If you want the best candidate, it is also subjectively biased due to the employer's concept of "best". Having previously hired for a small company, I can assure you oit is a difficult decision bec..."In more way than one. My department is extraordinarily bad at hiring. If there is a good one and a not so good one, guess which one they hire? It has caused so many problem that HR came back to the group and told them to quit calling in complaints because that they stopped answering our calls.
Go figure
Papaphilly wrote: "In all fairness to Amazon, it is a problem for trucking in general. Every driver has a pee bottle and I did too when I drove...."I can imagine, but the cutting edge tiny firm like Amazon, can surely solve it with one hand tied behind the back, instead of denying that it happens :) Should be easier than AI.
Don't know whether it was Natural or Artificial, but there was very little intelligence behind their service per my last experience with them
Nik wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "In all fairness to Amazon, it is a problem for trucking in general. Every driver has a pee bottle and I did too when I drove...."I can imagine, but the cutting edge tiny firm l..."
When it comes to trucking, some problems are intractable and this is oddly one of them. What you have to understand is that drivers are behind the eight ball from the moment they start to the moment the leave the truck at the end of the day. They are behind schedule all the time and corners get cut to try and catch up.
Papaphilly wrote: "....When it comes to trucking, some problems are intractable and this is oddly one of them...."Since you have the first hand experience, you should know better, of course. Maybe they are also thinking that soon they'd be able to replace many bottle peeing truck drivers by fewer drone operators, so why bother. Automating everything, Jeff might remain the only one there with a bunch of joysticks and truckloads of cash :)
Hmm, long distance drone operator leaves room to pee, drone crashes. That would be an original excuse for goods failing to arrive :-)
Nik wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "....When it comes to trucking, some problems are intractable and this is oddly one of them...."Since you have the first hand experience, you should know better, of course. Mayb..."
My only answer to this is I am still waiting for my jet pack I was promised as a kid in 1970. Automated trucks over the road is much more complicated than one supposes.
Papaphilly wrote: "...My only answer to this is I am still waiting for my jet pack I was promised as a kid in 1970. Automated trucks over the road is much more complicated than one supposes."I want my Food-a-Rac-a-Cycle.
It's not 2062 yet - so we have to keep waiting.
The Weekly Reader in sixth grade proposed a helicopter car that could fly over traffic jams. I want one of those. And a Star Trek transporter, while I'm dreaming.
Scout, I want the Star Trek replicator. it may be that being exposed to these things as a kid, it was all about food that impressed upon my memory.As an adult, I want The Doctor. He was definitely an AI. I have faith that he could cure me, unlike modern medicine.
Papaphilly wrote: "Nik wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "In all fairness to Amazon, it is a problem for trucking in general. Every driver has a pee bottle and I did too when I drove...."I can imagine, but the cutting edge..."
My ex spouse person tried the OTR driving for a while at which time I learned they all seem to have pee bottles. I also know of people who have had to drive long distances in a short time using a pee bottle. My nephew has 3 boys and so to avoid stopping for each of them at different times, he taught them all to use pee bottles.
It appears to be one of those things I never considered, but which is commonplace, especially in some industries.
Better the bottle than no alternative :-)
There is only one grand promise of technology which has ever enthralled me. The dream which has ensnared the human mind since the first of us stared into that eternal ebon sea, bejeweled with titanic nuclear furnaces, and felt those uniquely human emotions, awe and wonder.https://youtu.be/gU41J86Rrg8
J. wrote: "There is only one grand promise of technology which has ever enthralled me. The dream which has ensnared the human mind since the first of us stared into that eternal ebon sea, bejeweled with titan..."Precisely - we have all our eggs in one basket.
Graeme wrote: "Precisely - we have all our eggs in one basket."When my mother was a child, a young charismatic President set the tone for the coming decade.
https://youtu.be/C6-pxKOnvyo
When I was a child, another charismatic President defined the coming years with a eulogy for the crew of STS-51-L.
https://youtu.be/Qa7icmqgsow
A glimmer came as a mission, a few months my junior, turned its eye homeward and showed us how small we truly are.
https://youtu.be/EWPFmdAWRZ0
Then the original payload of STS-52 was brought fully on line. And it showed us just how vast the Universe is.
https://youtu.be/WRHIGuoH6ic
Our posterity could stride the stars as the founders of worlds. Or we could become just another bit of organic chemistry splattered across the Great Filter.
Brilliant. I'm onboard.My number one wish growing up was to colonise another world.
Born too early to do that.
Graeme wrote: "Brilliant. I'm onboard.My number one wish growing up was to colonise another world.
Born too early to do that."
So far all of us have been. I suppose we could hope for reincarnation.
https://youtu.be/aFkcAH-m9W0
J. wrote: "There is only one grand promise of technology which has ever enthralled me. The dream which has ensnared the human mind since the first of us stared into that eternal ebon sea, bejeweled with titan..."B5 is in my top 3. A lot of great quotes in that show.
Lizzie wrote: "B5 is in my top 3. A lot of great quotes in that show."So many sci-fi fans of about my age have seen and liked Babylon 5 that I have been able to use it as a kind of shorthand to describe other IPs.
Once, I was describing Old Man's War to a friend. To explain the Consu, all that I had to say was, "The Shadows." He got it instantly.
Lizzie wrote: "SAs an adult, I want The Doctor. He was definitely an AI. I have faith that he could cure me, unlike modern medicine...."Would the Doctor be modern medicine?...8^)
Graeme wrote: "Brilliant. I'm onboard.My number one wish growing up was to colonise another world.
Born too early to do that."
I wanted to walk on the moon. Now I want to live to see us walk on Mars. A 7 year old boy would be very happy in an old man's body if that happens.
Men have pee bottles, but do you remember the nutty astronaut, Lisa Nowak, who drove across the country wearing diapers? https://www.houstoniamag.com/news-and...
From nine years ago:TEDX New Wall Street - Sean Gourley - High frequency trading and the new algorithmic ecosystem
https://youtu.be/V43a-KxLFcg
The markets have laid men and nations low. They create kings and paupers. Now they are the province of, so far, mindless programs reacting to data faster than we can think. For the moment, those programs are beholding to their creators. If AI is introduced, who's world will this really be?
World, Writing, Wealth
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And then Asimov's robots created the Zeroth Law which pretty much ended human control over our own destiny, in his Robots/Foundation Universe anyway.