World, Writing, Wealth discussion
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Artificial intelligence: is it that dangerous?
The EU link is interesting, but where's the enforcement element for regulations like these? "Additionally, artificial or manipulated images, audio or video content (“deepfakes”) need to be clearly labelled as such." I'll look for that podcast, J. Sounds interesting.
If you thought that the MSM's TDS was already completely off the reservation, prepare for a new level of unreality.School principal was framed using AI-generated racist rant, police say. A co-worker is now charged.
https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/new...
J. wrote: "If you thought that the MSM's TDS was already completely off the reservation, prepare for a new level of unreality.School principal was framed using AI-generated racist rant, police say. A co-wor..."
And so it begins.
Our online presence is set to be exploited against us by anyone with the motivation to do so.
Graeme wrote: "J. wrote: "If you thought that the MSM's TDS was already completely off the reservation, prepare for a new level of unreality.School principal was framed using AI-generated racist rant, police sa..."
Hoo boy
An AI-controlled fighter jet took the Air Force leader for a historic ride. What that means for warhttps://www.yahoo.com/tech/ai-powered...
Is it odd that I have this scene stuck in my head?
https://youtu.be/4DQsG3TKQ0I?si=xfSOp...
Indeed, J.And without the need to build planes suitable for human pilots, they can build planes that can routinely pull 15 gees, etc... with longer range, or more armament...
We'd be outclassed.
Somebody, call Kristi Noem!https://youtu.be/MG4PPkCyJig?si=Zn809...
I know what you're thinking. But, it is not cute. I know what is under that sparkly fake fur.
https://youtu.be/G5SKCBNpAlM?si=0gNfw...
https://youtu.be/rj9JSkSpRlM?si=1yoO_...
Predictions:Due to military competition (first-movers will be advantaged), and the breakdown of international agreements (lack of global policy to stop it) as the world becomes multi-polar.
[1] Autonomous robots/drones will be armed with weapons, and
[1.a] Used in military conflict, and
[1.b] Deployed and used against civilian populations.
Under the principle that all military systems (sooner or later*) get used domestically.
[2] Autonomous robots/drones will be armed with weapons and used by police forces against domestic populations to maintain order.
*Noting that no one has yet nuked their own people yet, but I don't rule it out.
Graeme wrote: "*Noting that no one has yet nuked their own people yet, but I don't rule it out."1.) The US government has nuked its own people.
https://www.theatlantic.com/video/ind....
2.) Didn't the UK test their nukes on Australia?
Do you think robots 🤖 would’ve handled better people’s visit to the Capitol, for example?Liquidation of bin laden?
Hope robots won’t be programmed to have a party affiliation 👹
I brought up the topic of drones becoming a problem here a couple of years ago and no one wanted to talk about it. I think they will be a threat, and who wants to worry about what's coming at you from the sky? Not a happy thought.
J. wrote: "Graeme wrote: "*Noting that no one has yet nuked their own people yet, but I don't rule it out."1.) The US government has nuked its own people.
https://www.theatlantic.com/video/ind......"
Absolutely.
Lot's of Aussie 'test subjects,' consequently died young of cancer....
We're just expendables...
Rifle-Armed Robot Dogs Now Being Tested By Marine Special Operators (Updated)https://www.twz.com/sea/rifle-armed-r...
J. wrote: "Rifle-Armed Robot Dogs Now Being Tested By Marine Special Operators (Updated)https://www.twz.com/sea/rifle-armed-r..."
Predictable.
First movers have an advantage.
I expect the same equipment will be used against domestic populations in the near future.
Graeme wrote: "J. wrote: "Rifle-Armed Robot Dogs Now Being Tested By Marine Special Operators (Updated)https://www.twz.com/sea/rifle-armed-r..."
Predictable.
..."
Unfurtunately, I think you are right.
Papaphilly wrote: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvcCK...This is scary and even I am saying this!"
The movie Gattica deals with this too.
Graeme wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvcCK...This is scary and even I am saying this!"
The movie Gattica deals with this too."
Great film.
Papaphilly wrote: "Unfurtunately, I think you are right...."
Just like a broken clock .... 😁😉😎
You're afraid of rifle-armed robot dogs, but not drones? For heaven's sake, drones attack from above without warning. At least you see a robot dog coming.
An AI driven swarm of drones would be horrifying.Even without AI, drones are highly dangerous.
[1] They are fast and maneuverable.
REF (Racing Drones): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C2C1...
[2] Easily built and armed.
REF (Short Movie) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlO2g...
In one of my novels I had the bad guys remotely take over the AI of cars with AI driving control and change the instructions from "avoid collisions" to "collide with as much speed as possible".Do you think any vehicle system will be impossible to hack over the life of the vehicle, given it gets external feed from GPS?
Have you ever seen Screamers?https://youtu.be/qrgAvr0TIr4?si=0WSJy...
Why does Philip K. Dick keep showing up in my nightmares?
Maybe you have read too many of his books?That trailer does not seem to be something to encourage you to watch the end-product if you keep bringing up the images in your sleep.
J. wrote: "Have you ever seen Screamers?https://youtu.be/qrgAvr0TIr4?si=0WSJy...
Why does Philip K. Dick keep showing up in my nightmares?"
Maybe because his stories seem too real?
Scout wrote: "You're afraid of rifle-armed robot dogs, but not drones? For heaven's sake, drones attack from above without warning. At least you see a robot dog coming."It is more about allowing control to slip away without the understanding of the unforeseen consequences.
I don't get your meaning. Can you explain further?
First: let me clarify. I did not catch your comment about the drone dogs, I thought it was about The Why Files I posted. Sorry about that because I did not mean to confuse you. Second: I am not nearly as worried about flying drones as I am about the dogs. Flying drones have a superior capability, but do have their limits and they can be quite stark. You know, I am a professional drone pilot as part of my job. I see the limits and carrying capacity is a big one and flight time is the other. They are very limited, so the drone can cover quite a large territory, but start adding weight and it becomes even further limited and the territory shrinks. They cannot fly in weather well or handle the hot weather well either.
Now having said that I am only talking about quad copter or six prop drones and not the military raptors or predators. Drones can be very good for surveillance and are very maneuverable, but easily can be taken down and it would not take much.
Once you try to add weapons, there are other considerations due to kickback or other control issues. These can all be worked out, but not today or soon.
The dogs on the other hand are built to handle rough terrain and are robust. They are built to go where people go now and would not need much engineering to carry heavier weights including weapons. They can work in bad weather and will not need to worry about rain or winds. Heat will still be a problem. The dogs can be designed like tanks and be unfitted with armor. Flying drones will not be so much. Drones would not do well in forests or buildings, but the dogs can and will.
Papaphilly, we differ on our assessments of the risks of flying drones as anti-armor and anti-armor systems. Your comment about "kickback" (recoil?) leads me to think that you are envisioning the drones as transport for the weapons. To my way of thinking, the drone is the munition.To be sure, Ukraine's early success with drones was from using them as improvised bombers. Their success was enhanced by poorly trained Russian troops who left trails of trash back to their redoubts and Russian tankers who left hatches open.while those gen one systems are still operating in theater, the trend is towards suicide drones.
So far, we have mostly seen explosive based warheads, either fragmentation (anti-personnel) or HEAT (anti-armor). Given Russian proclivities, I'm anticipating the use of suicide drones sporting thermobaric warheads in the near future.
https://youtube.com/shorts/XgklwhdUo4...
As nightmarish as the thought of being burned alive in your foxhole is, there are worse possibilities. Trenches have one horrible downside. They are beneath ground level. This means any heavier than air gas or aerosol will settle into them. This includes fairly light chemical agents like Sarin and VX.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti....
Yeah, I grew up reading old issues of Proceedings. This left me with a particular view of the human race.
J. wrote: "Papaphilly, we differ on our assessments of the risks of flying drones as anti-armor and anti-armor systems. Your comment about "kickback" (recoil?) leads me to think that you are envisioning the d..."Fair enough. I am looking at the quad copters and not the predator style. As for the drones being used in Ukraine, it is a direct development of war and that is fine, it works in this theater because the defenses are so bad. When I talk about kick back I am looking the drones as the weapons being reused and using a gun type of firing. As a flying bomb, we already have better versions than currently being used in Ukraine. Think about it this way, the Ukraine drone is like an IED used in Afghanistan. Crude, but effective.
I am thinking of drones in combat as well as crowd control or rescue. Lots of overlap, except with different focus. I do not worry about drones i combat because they are already here and being developed fast. It is another version of a weapon. What I worry about is when it is used against the populace in a totalitarian setting of overused as a police crowd control that goes too far.
Now remember, the very uses of drones as weapons can be used in rescue of life safety situations with the very same fundementals. As in all things, a Pandoras box.
Papa, I was thinking about military drones that can take out enemies with no warning. If we can use them against our enemies, why couldn't they be used against us? It's already scary enough to deal with threats on ground level. But also from above?
People from the frontline (which can be easily discerned by their hands - those of miners from constant digging) tell that the entire routine is to dig a trench, be motionless so drones won’t spot you (they mostly spot motion) , fire when russian storm groups appear and quickly move to another position, for from the moment you’ve exposed yourself to the moment the position is being shelled passes very little time. They say russian drones hover all the time above them. They have an anti drone rifle, but wouldn’t shoot not to get exposed
Papaphilly, thinking of suicide drones as low cost cruise missiles or IEDs lacks nuance and imagination. Think of them as mines that can move and actively hunt. A normal Bouncing Betty can be laid in a likely spot, and IF a target trips it, a fragmentation grenade will pop off at chest height regardless of target ID or size. A small quadcopter could be loaded out with the same frag charge and sent out to hunt. If it doesn't find the enemy quickly, it could be set down and go passive. If something with a human face walks within sight, it could ping home for confirmation. Then the dying starts.
Likewise, cruise missiles don't actively hunt their targets. They are targeted by their sources and sent. If the target is gone or incorrect when they get there, they blow up anyway. That drone will hunt. It its primary target is gone, incorrect, or destroyed, the drone can find something or someone else to kill.
For now, the biggest limiting factor is the size and weight of the power source. I can imagine a few ways this might be addressed. What matters is that it will be addressed. With each new generation, they will last longer in the field. How long before drones become a new part of the Iron Harvest. A part that doesn't just kill by accident, but is still hunting long after the war is done?
J. wrote: "Papaphilly, thinking of suicide drones as low cost cruise missiles or IEDs lacks nuance and imagination. Think of them as mines that can move and actively hunt. A normal Bouncing Betty can be lai..."
Scout wrote: "Papa, I was thinking about military drones that can take out enemies with no warning. If we can use them against our enemies, why couldn't they be used against us? It's already scary enough to deal..."
As I have noted, I am not nearly as worried about drones as compared to the ground robot dogs. I am NOT addressing war type drones such as predators and the like. These are killing machines without a doubt. But as noted, you need either programing of a stationary target or a live body remote pilot or even a spotter on site. Regardless of programming a face to kill on site, drones are not great hunters on their own, but heavily rely on human intelligence.
Now lets apply this to finding any given person. let us assume I am being hunted by the police and they decide to use drones searching for me. I can be anywhere in the country or even planet. That is a ton of area to find just me. Even if you program drones to watch for me only, there are tons of misidentifications and they all take time to run down. BTW, drones still have to follow all of the rules that ALL aircraft must follow. Starting to see the problem?
Now to answer the idea of a rogue government, can drones be weaponized against the populace? Sure, but it still will not be easy. Even if you turn the drones into flying land mines, they still will have all of the problems I have mentioned. Think about it this way, your Bouncing Betty is a good example, if you want to booby trap an area, why not just use a booby trap? Remember, drones draw on power and run down fast.
Predator style drones can certainly be used against the populace. However, if you worry about the United States, I would not at all. The military is not like other less inclined countries toward civil liberties. It is both who we are as a nation, but also baked in the military both as an idea, but also it is the citizen soldier.
Ultimately, it is a combination of size, and battery life that limits the quad copters. It is the lack of maneuverability for the Predator style that limits their tracking use.
Quad copters will be great at short term intelligence gathering and I fully expect them to used as such in the future. I am involved with a project with this in mind now and for search and rescue.
So while I cannot dispel your fears, I do want to temper them. It is possible, but highly unlikely for the government to use it against us as a weapon of terror.
Maybe not the US military against its citizens, but what about all the enemies of our state who have crossed the border and have no qualms about harming our citizens. Maybe not with drones, but with other means. It's happened before, and now we have many more enemies within our borders. Can you temper those fears?
Scout wrote: "Maybe not the US military against its citizens, but what about all the enemies of our state who have crossed the border and have no qualms about harming our citizens. Maybe not with drones, but wit..."We have been getting illegal crossings for our entire history. The vast majority want nothing more than work and to become American. We have also been getting those that will harm us for our entire history too. Some have been extremely good at harming us. Yet, it is still human intelligence that pulls these groups down. Someone always speaks. Mostly they cannot help themselves. Unless they are extremely disciplined, it slips out.
Remember what I always say about weapons, they are tools nothing more. Whether they are guns, knives, bombs or drones, it is the actor behind them, not the weapons itself that matters.
If you do. not want to be tempered, I cannot temper you. However, think about how rare these attacks are and the vast majority of them are domestic attackers. Yet, even they are rare too. I know, I know, if you watch the news, it looks like it is happening all of the time. Yet it is still a rare event for shootings that are not gang related, drug related, suicide, or familial murder. Yet the news sells papers and if it bleeds, it leads.
Do not get me wrong, I am not against rooting out the bad guys. I am very far right when it comes to illegal aliens, they all need to go back. I do not reward cheating and if it was up to me, I would hunt them all down and remove them. This is acknowledging the vast majority do not cause harm and do contribute to society. I am also fully aware that we may cause more harm than good in doing so, but I do not reward cheating especially when some have to wait up to 20 years legally.
One last thought, terrorists could get their hand on a nuclear bomb, but I do not worry at all about it. It does not mean we should not prevent it from happening, but the chances from happening is so low, it is almost mathematically impossible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXdVD...an interesting TED talk. I do not watch them much anymore because they have become so self-congratulating and this one suffers from that too, but it is good thinking about AI.
You're my favorite optimist, yet you do admit that you're against illegal border crossings, and I agree with you. But just because the odds are against something mathematically impossible happening (such as 9-11) that doesn't mean it won't happen again, and having so many enemies crossing our border only increases the chances of something like that happening again. I wish I had your optimism, but I think it's irrational.
Scout wrote: "You're my favorite optimist, yet you do admit that you're against illegal border crossings, and I agree with you. But just because the odds are against something mathematically impossible happening..."I guess you and I agree on the irrationality. Worry about the terrorists within the larger group is OK, but the numbers work against it. To me it is like worry about lightning striking on a clear day.
US political consultant indicted over AI-generated Biden robocallshttps://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-p...
J. wrote: "To my way of thinking, the drone is the munition...."Me too.
Flying drones: Cheap, fast, disposable, single-use maneuverable weapons that can hunt down specific targets based on facial recognition.
Papaphilly wrote: "As I have noted, I am not nearly as worried about drones as compared to the ground robot dogs. .."Me too. Killer robots on any ground platform are a very-real problem.
REF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTI5c...
J. wrote: "US political consultant indicted over AI-generated Biden robocallshttps://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-p..."
OK this does bother me. I am no fan of Biden as all understand. However, that is just not right to do what has been done here either.
Oh, this is the AI thread. Sorry Papa!
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