Outlander Series discussion
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Least Favorite Character?
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Rachel
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Feb 04, 2010 10:49AM
Yes I completely agree! I always have put myself in Claire's shoes, so I just can't see it...I mean, I understand - yes, doctors are know it alls, and yes, there are some times you get frustrated with her (the biggest for me was with LJG), but to hate her so much that you can hardly read the book? And what boggles me is that she's still reading them! But, she really likes the way Diana brings out passion in her - even if it is through hating Claire. And she loves the other characters. So yea, I was just curious about what other people thought. But let me impress, again, how much she hates Claire. I mean, really, really, can't stand her...it's quite funny, actually. I think Claire is sassy, witty, quite funny, and intelligent. Love her!
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Never even crossed my mind, I love Claire's character, just as much as Jamie. She is a 20th century, strong willed woman, stuck in the 18th century. As far as her knowledge goes, She does know most things. I adore her, adaptability, and her passion, as well as her knowledge.
I completely agree with all of that. I'm really interested to see if someone comments back that really doesn't like her..because like I said, my friend is the only person I've ever met who feels this way.
Sometimes I've felt that Claire was too headstrong. She bullies her way around situations. If you think about it though, she's a brilliant, modern woman in a dirty, poorly educated era and all she wants is to ensure the health and safety of those around her...well not all she wants, but when she's a biatch it seems to be because everyone else is persistent about refraining from maintaining their best interests. And with her education, she pretty much is the smartest person in “her” world, at the time.BTW, didn't I mention I hate Lord John? Why hasn't anyone else jumped on my bandwagon here?
Leslie wrote: "Man, all of you make some great points. I have to say, that because we have all spent so much time with these charaters, at one time or another, I have hated and loved all of them. Examples of ..."
Brianna isn't actually a beauty. Roger says that her nose is a little too long for her face, but it's her eyes, hair and height that make her striking. She's definitely got presence, but she's no great beauty.
Rachel wrote: "Ok everyone. I have a question for you. I absolutely LOVE this series, as all of you do. Couldn't put it down for anything..and am dying in agony because we have to wait 3 years for the next boo..."I think that anyone who travels 200 years into the past would come off as a bit of a know-it-all. We've come along way with regards to hygiene, nutrition and medicine and I'm sure we wouldn't be able to hold our tongues if we were to see how things were done back then.
I don't find Claire selfish though, so I'm not sure how your friend came to that conclusion about her.
I don't really care for William all that much. He seems to run around Echo for most of the book lost and confused (at least that is my impression). Which sucks because I know there is more to the story than that but its hard to get past. I guess I want him to be strong and capable as both Jaime and LJG (and heck even Ian) are and he just isn't the same. Echo was hard for me to read because frankly, it was boring and it was William that made it boring.
I liked William quite a bit and found that his journey through Echo was integral to the story as a whole.His getting lost in the swamp leads to Ian and Rachel getting together.
The swamp scene also gives us the knowledge that William heard talking stones and the voice of his dead mother as a boy.
His time spent with the British troops leads to us news of Denis Randall-Isaacs, who appears to be just as untrustworthy as all of the other Randall men we've met.
And we have to remember that he is very young, so to compare him to Jamie, LJG and Ian is a bit unfair. All of those men have had far more life experience than he has.
Got to say I hate lord John Grey soooooo much I can't stand reading parts that involve him. I think it's because he's in love with Jamie and it drives me crazy!!! I'm half way thru Echo and I know what's coming and don't know if I can take them apart. Has anyone read the LJG books?? What did u think??
I've read the LJG books and quite enjoyed them, but, then again, I've always liked his character.I find the hatred some people have for him amusing because I can't think of a single thing he's done to warrant such strong reactions and feelings.
I agree with you Lori, that William's running around is integral to the story, I just found it boring I guess. I've been reading Outlander since it came out in the 90's and I was in high school. Echo is just my least favorite. It was a difficult book to get through and I don't even remember much of it. Mostly just how I wished Willie would quit getting lost! :)
Echo was definitely a far more difficult read than the previous books.I felt like Diana tried to put way too much into it and, as a result, it was choppy and slightly confusing at certain points. I can also understand many people getting bored with all of the facts regarding the war. My ancestors happened to be loyalists though, so I found those sections interesting(even if it's all fiction). :)
Lori wrote: "I've read the LJG books and quite enjoyed them, but, then again, I've always liked his character.I find the hatred some people have for him amusing because I can't think of a single thing he's don..."
I agree as well. I have always liked Lord John Grey.
Heather wrote: "My least favourite character is Lord John. I really don't like him."I'm with you Heather...I _just _don't_ like Lord John at all! I bought the LJG series after Echo and I can't even finish one of them!
That's a great way of looking at it.It's funny though when I read the series, I read it like a sister or clair's best friend watching the heartbreak, not like I was her in the story. Totally gives a differn't perspective though. I have never not liked Clair,I have always adored her and Jamie,and Ya she's a little bossy but I think that's what first attracted Jaime to her. Remember when she says to Dougal my names Clair Beauchamp Who the hell are you. Do you think any of those guys back then would have ever been talked to like that buy a women they were basiclly interigating. I love the size of her balls it's what makes her so endearing to me and to Jamie. He told her he knew she was the one before he even saw her, just when he herd her speak the first time it rang true to him and he knew she was the one he'd been waiting for. Love them both Rachael tell your friend she's clearly an idiot as Clair would probably say lol
I love Claire too - Rhonda you put it very well, and you made a good point. I don’t put myself into Claire’s shoes either.. and not sure why. I can relate, but I’m reading it as an observer who loves these people, not like it’s happening to me.I also like LJG (so far) … he hasn’t given me any reason not to, and he’s been more than honourable and respectful … now, if I was Claire, I’d hate him too for lusting after my man!
I'm still stuck on hatin' Brianna. I'm at the part in DOA where she's living at the cabin with C&J and she's bonding with Jamie (they just hunted some bees). I hoped I would warm up to her, but she is so secretive and elusive about things.... she hides her feelings and does not speak her mind. I wish she was bold and honest like C&J… maybe then I could muster some respect for her. I DO know the general idea of what’s coming in the story, and I’m sure she won’t be growing on me anytime soon. Oh weeeeeeeell….
Here's my two cents about Claire. I like her, but don't LOVE her, when she is alone. I LOVE LOVE LOVE her with Jamie. Their connection, their banter, their sex, etc. That's not to say that she needs to be with a man, but for me, her character works better when she's with Jamie.
Eva wrote: "I love Claire too - Rhonda you put it very well, and you made a good point. I don’t put myself into Claire’s shoes either.. and not sure why. I can relate, but I’m reading it as an observer who lov..."I felt that way abour Bree too Eva, until Rhonda and I were doing our weekly disection of the series, and it dawned on me. Who raised Bree? Yes she shares some characteristics of Jamie, and some of Claire..But who were her influences growing up? Claire, who was grieving the love of her life, and remained in a loveless marraige for the sake of Bree. Who followed her heart and immediatly dove into school, then her career, and Frank.. Oh Frank! Obviously angry, and faithless.. (Which as much as we all want to dislike him, and do for the most part, can you really blame him?!?)..Her visions of love, marraige and affection were nothing like what Claire and Jamie share. It was tension, and secrets, anger, and hurt. Claire's avoidance with her work, Frank's avoidance with his, and women. I don't believe Bree knows how to be open, and overtly affectionate.... But she does love Roger, and she slowly comes around...
I don't really like Roger. I just do not find him to be an interesting character at all. I do not think Jamie was deceitful to L. And I don't think he led her on. They were young in the before-Claire phase. Then, for all purposes Claire was dead. He had no hope of ever being reuinted. I understand why he didn't tell Claire at first -- he feared to lose her. He had nothing in his life and he wanted to preserve the little he had -- Claire returning -- to any extreme.
Jamie is not perfect. He is a real person - that is one reason I like him. Sometimes I think the other paranormal urban fantasty books that have romance thrown in are not particular healthy for a woman's image of a man - you know they are not too realistic. And I don't mean just physically. :) But while Jamie is a hero and physically unique ;), he is also flawedd (remember what he does to his Aunt Jocasta's lover -- why? it wasn't his place; remember what he thinks of and says to his sister when he returns home for the first time in Outlander -- what a jerk!) But Jamie is real. We can see him in the men in our lives -- at least I can. :) So I don't judge him for those bad decisions, I understand why he made them -- he was desparete and alone.
I don't dislike Laoghire (spelling?). I understand her actions and she is necessary to the plot. But really Roger -- can we have a better character?! Sure he is a good guy but soooooo not interesting.
I feel so bad for Malva. She was sexually abused (over an extremely long period of time) and controlled by her brother. She had nobody in her life who loved her (and in fact had people in her life who hated her) and she did love Claire. Even Claire forgave her and understood this. :(
Who said Jamie was deceitful? I looked, but couldn't see a post on here. Also... How can you not LOVE Roger... Lol, Poor Roger... He's a 20th century man, thrust into a life among 18th century highlanders, for the sake of the woman he loves beyond reasoning. He can't live up to the likes of Jamie, Ian, even Fergus...And he is always struggling to do so. No man in our time could live up to their examples. They simply don't make 'em like they used to, you know? Lol. I Love Roger's heart. For me, his character is essential to show the major gap between men of their time, and the men of ours. Both great in there own ways, just completely polarized from one another. I've always liked Roger, from the very beginning when he helped Claire discover Jamie was/is still alive, to when he follows Bree thru the stones, and all his struggles since then.
Now That I think on it, I have a hard time saying that there is any character(s) in this series that I actually dislike... All of them are amazing, and intricately woven into the story. From Geillie, and Jack to Frank, Loaighaire and Malva, LJG and William, Bree and Roger.. Master Raymond, Stephan Bonnet, Phaedra and Jocasta.. Dougal and Collum... as you all know the list goes on and on. I don't dislike any of them really... Strange huh?
Shell wrote: " Who said Jamie was deceitful? I looked, but couldn't see a post on here. Also... How can you not LOVE Roger... Lol, Poor Roger... He's a 20th century man, thrust into a life among 18th century hig..."Totally agree Shell! I love Roger too (maybe that's partly why I'm so frustrated with Bree.... WHY could she not have just called him MacKEnzie instead of Wakefield??????)... Because (as my friend says) Diana wanted it that way!
Eva wrote: "Shell wrote: " Who said Jamie was deceitful? I looked, but couldn't see a post on here. Also... How can you not LOVE Roger... Lol, Poor Roger... He's a 20th century man, thrust into a life among 18..."Lol.. So True...
Shell wrote: "Now That I think on it, I have a hard time saying that there is any character(s) in this series that I actually dislike... All of them are amazing, and intricately woven into the story. From Geilli..."I'm totally with you here. I think all the characters are essential to the story DG is trying to tell. There are times when I feel some strong animosity towards a character but once I see how they fit into the grand scheme of things, I tend to lighten up on them. On the other extreme, I have a difficult time choosing a favorite character. There are so many of them that have touched me in one way or another and several that endear themselves over and over...
Leea wrote: "Got to say I hate lord John Grey soooooo much I can't stand reading parts that involve him. I think it's because he's in love with Jamie and it drives me crazy!!! I'm half way thru Echo and I know ..."I have read the Lord John books. I like Lord John because he has a great, dry sense of humor and is incredibly logical. I agree with you and think the reason most readers don't like him is because of the affection he has for Jamie. I enjoy his character and the Lord John books.
Leea wrote: "Got to say I hate lord John Grey soooooo much I can't stand reading parts that involve him. I think it's because he's in love with Jamie and it drives me crazy!!! I'm half way thru Echo and I know ..."I'm in the same boat as you, but for different reasons. Hate LJG. Read his books, didn't like them either, but I think I might not have given them much of a chance because of my feelings towards their main character.
Shell wrote: " Who said Jamie was deceitful? I looked, but couldn't see a post on here. Also... How can you not LOVE Roger... Lol, Poor Roger... He's a 20th century man, thrust into a life among 18th century hig..."Sometimes I feel like I'm not even reading the same books as you guys.
I love Roger and Bree. I think he compared to Jamie, Ian, etc. perfectly well. Did I miss something? He's defended his family just as much as the others, hasn't he? He’s hunted, gathered and killed just as much as the others, hasn’t he?
Bree; I think she's fantastic. She doesn't fawn all over her man, but it works and he doesn't seem to mind so I don't see what the big deal is. She’s smart, she contributes to the well-being of her community, she’s a terrific mother and she loves her family...what more can she do?
As far as my disliking LJG, which apparently is comical to some, I don't dislike him because of his sexual inclinations, the way he looks, smells, walks, whatever, I dislike him because I don't find him trustworthy (unless it's trust involving Jamie) and I think if given the opportunity (regardless of his newly founded relationship with Claire) he'd throw her to the wolves without a backward glance if it meant he could have Jamie.
Heather wrote: "Shell wrote: " Who said Jamie was deceitful? I looked, but couldn't see a post on here. Also... How can you not LOVE Roger... Lol, Poor Roger... He's a 20th century man, thrust into a life among 18..."I think you have LJG all wrong, Heather.
He WAS jealous of Claire for awhile there, but he has truly liked her for a very long time and he knows damn well he can never have Jamie.
And why do you feel he is untrustworthy? I'd have to say that next to Jamie, he is the most trustworthy character in the series. Quite frankly, I view him as the gay version OF Jamie.
The dislike that some have for Bree makes me chuckle.
The traits that everyone seems to find fault with in her are the ones she inherited from Jamie...stubborn, mind of her own, likes to be in charge, doesn't like to talk about feelings and such.
So, I guess some of you think those are admirable traits in a man, but deplorable in a woman(?).
Heather wrote: "Sometimes I've felt that Claire was too headstrong. She bullies her way around situations. If you think about it though, she's a brilliant, modern woman in a dirty, poorly educated era and all sh..."Thanks heather, I was feeling the only one. No desire to read Lord John books and I think it's great that you gave them a try even with your dislike for him. I can't believe how people hate Bree she is just like Jamie and I love that about her. I think rog & Bree were a great addition to the books. I guess without all these flawed characters we would not be so in love with DGs book. Just a thought!!
I think this is exactly why I love this group – we all have such diverse opinions and insights but are free to share them and to expect that they will be respected (even if no one else agrees with them)! I agree with you Lori, about LJG. I just haven’t found any reason to dislike him, and think he is a good man – I am also of the opinion that people hate him because of how he feels about J&C, how he makes Claire feel, and because he wishes he could have Jamie (so do I!).
Bree on the other hand, has no balance to her character in my opinion. She is very much like Jamie in some ways, but Jamie balances his more ‘frustrating’ characteristics with other redeeming qualities. It’s easy to forgive him. Bree just seems impatient, spoiled, impulsive and stubborn without the self-confidence, and inner strength that Jamie has (yes, I realize she is young). I love that Jamie is honest with himself and tells it like it is – she seems to, but most of the time it is misplaced anger, and confusion about her feelings. I find her exhausting. And it has nothing to do with the fact that she is female. I just finished DOA, so my opinion may change later but probably not. What Roger did for her was amazing (coming through the stones, and then returning to her after the Mohawks released him) and she is just not getting it. She acted like a he was to blame and he had to make it up to her somehow when he came back - he deserved more from her. I also see a lot of Jamie’s traits in Roger, so don’t understand why people dislike him?!? He is one of my favourite characters!
Thanks for letting me rant….
Eva wrote: "I think this is exactly why I love this group – we all have such diverse opinions and insights but are free to share them and to expect that they will be respected (even if no one else agrees with ..."I'm not sure when it happens, if it hasn't allready. But she tells Roger why, she wasn't thrilled when he came for her. It'll make perfect sense when you read it. And I still maintain that she is who she is, due to her circumastances growing up. Yes she is alot like Jamie, but she is alot like Frank too. She grows on ya. I noticed a huge difference in her in ABOSAA. I admit up until then, she wasn't my favorite. But she has most definatly grown on me.
Shell wrote: "Eva wrote: "I think this is exactly why I love this group – we all have such diverse opinions and insights but are free to share them and to expect that they will be respected (even if no one else ..."I'm holding out hope that she will grow on me too... I'm still waiting for her to prove herself, and I'll reserve final judgement until I finish Echo.
Ooh!! I have a couple, that I have a hard time even getting through too much.1) I can't stand Stephen Bonnet, it was too much for me. Again, a rapist who can't be killed. When he didn't turn him in I saw all the B.S. coming. Although, I did have a small like for his character in ABOSAA. I think he liked Bree... saw a softer side to him. (that's a new topic)
2) Mr. Bug - I understand... but, seriously!
3) Mr. Willoughby... I don't get it, besides him introducing acupuncture.
That's all for now! :-)
Wendy wrote: "I too have had my problems with Bree. I love her on one hand but on the other I think that she is really insensitive toward Roger. She expects so much from him and he is in a completely foreign wor..."I agree, Bree has been getting on my nerves. She comes off cold and seems insensitive to Roger's torment of whether he is Jem's father or not. Roger and Bree's relationship to me does not come off as being a deep one. I think Roger deserves better.
Elizabeth wrote: "I agree, Bree has been getting on my nerves. She comes off cold and seems insensitive to Roger's torment of whether he is Jem's father or not. Roger and Bree's relationship to me does not come off as being a deep one. I think Roger deserves better..."High-five, sister!
I don't like Laoghaire or, lately, Jenny that much.. but I kind of go up and down with Bree and Roger. I really WANT to like Roger- and I do most of the time. My problem with them comes from THEM as a unit- they have very little of the warmth and near-psychic closeness that I've come to expect- Jamie and Claire, for example.
I LOVE Young Ian, Ian, usually Fergus and his family (especially Gerome!! haha!) and also Lizzy and the Beardsly's- now, I didn't enjoy Lizzie by HERSELF, but once she pulled her little trick and figured out how to marry both the boys, i really quite enjoyed them! They just seem sort of endearing, in an odd way.
I LOVE Young Ian, Ian, usually Fergus and his family (especially Gerome!! haha!) and also Lizzy and the Beardsly's- now, I didn't enjoy Lizzie by HERSELF, but once she pulled her little trick and figured out how to marry both the boys, i really quite enjoyed them! They just seem sort of endearing, in an odd way.
I loved Lizzie and the Beardsleys too! There was something that was just so perfect about it.
Wendy wrote: "I loved Lizzie and the Beardsleys too! There was something that was just so perfect about it."Me too. The situation just amused me. Their "Bigamy" status may be strange to us now in the 21st Century but for backwoodsmen and uneducated servant girl from 18the century, it makes perfect sense. :-)
And it was cute, haha. The Beardsley twins were in my top fav characters from the beginning.
The three of them are like innocent & ignorance at the same time. It makes me laught when I think of their kids - how do you know which one is which. Ha ha.
Honestly, I resented the fact that the Beardsley twins disregarded Jamie’s direct order, after everything Jamie did for them. I don’t love them as much as everyone else, and it’s basically for that reason. I also think it’s a little disturbing in twin culture when both twins dress the same in person, therefor losing their own individual identities (and when people stop trying to separate them into two different human beings). I think back to poor Sam & Eric in Lord of the Flies and am grateful that Jamie & Claire et al at least TRIED to identify them as two distinct people.As far as Logobitch--err Loaghaire, she is most definitely my least favorite character. I don’t think Jamie was actually feeling the need to please her or like he was attracted to her or had feelings for her. I think Jamie’s reaction to Loaghaire (in the last two books) had everything to do with him being a cocky man thinking he can attract and please any woman he wants. He tried everything he knew to please the woman, and it still wasn’t good enough, even though she professed to have been in love with him since she was 16. I think that is where his frustration stemmed from.
Other than the obvious, I think that Malva is my least favorite, along with Geillis. They were just so conniving! But I guess if there wasn't any drama it wouldn't keep us as riveted as were are! God, I LOVE these books!
I ended up feeling sympathy for Malva. I thought that her and Claire had a good relationship and I was glad that she was going to confess because it broke her heart to hurt Claire.
Compassion is a better word; I ended up feeling compassion for Malva.
My least favorite is Laoghaire. I cannot for the life of me understand why Jamie had to go see her when she was humping her gardener or whatever he is/was. That just doesn't make sense to me. If I had been Claire (and this is a trait in Claire that really really irritates me), I'd have grabbed him by the ballocks and said "no, you aren't going to see her..how'd you feel if I wanted to go visit Louis to see why he didn't want me in his bed perpetually???? and while we're at it...why did you allow that woman and her children to call me a whore????" Then I'd twist those ballocks til his face turned blue and he'd have the answer to whether she'd let him go see Leghair or not. Doesn't make any sense why he wanted to go....none at all....at least to me. :)
Sharonh wrote: "My least favorite is Laoghaire. I cannot for the life of me understand why Jamie had to go see her when she was humping her gardener or whatever he is/was. That just doesn't make sense to me. If..."I'd have to agree,guess I wasn't thinking of Laoghaire, but she is definetly near the top of my "most despised characters" list.
I know this has been said a million times but I must say it anyway...Laoghaire, Leghaire, interferring biotch...however you wanna say it. She's #1 on my do-not-like list. And Gellis Duncan is #2. Oooh, and Melva Christie is #3, but she's dead now so not sure that counts!
I agree with all 3! But Leghair is at the top of the list. I really like Marsali though!
I love Lord John... he is one of my favorite characters and I was impressed by him even at Ardsmuir (sp). I, too, dislike Bree and Roger. I am much happier now that they are back in their time because they fit well there and I like them better for it. They were just out of place in the 18th century IMO. And I got VERY tired of reading their parts in the books.
I actually like Lizzie for standing up and refusing to pick between the twins. I think she actually has a lot of strength that she doesn't show when she is first introduced.
I don't hate Laoghaire as much as I used to :) This board has given me a lot of different thoughts towards her and upon further reflection I don't actually despise her.
I don't hate Frank either, I just think he is grossly wrong for Claire and the contrast between their relationship and Claire's relationship with Jamie is so huge that I think it can make people dislike Frank.
I am not a fan of William... I know it is stupid but I feel like he is Jamie's son so he should show a little but of the Fraser qualities and he doesn't, even though I know that he was raised by Lord John so he wouldn't have those qualities... I just still think he should ;) Jamie is so amazing that I can't believe his son is such a dope.
