Outlander Series discussion
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Least Favorite Character?
I agree! I loved the Daddy Chapter in Voyager. and It wouldn't have been without Loaghaire!
You know, Kelly, I don't think you're far from the truth. Women are so hard on women.--
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I'm not overly excited about Fergus and Marsali. Fergus has had a lot of things happen to him, but we haven't really see him do anything, I really hope that he redeems himself in the future. I would love to see him do something noble.
Shay wrote: "I'm not overly excited about Fergus and Marsali. "I agree with you, Shay. I don't dislike Fergus. I'm just not overly excited by him.
I was so upset when DG made Fergus into a wife beater. Fergus and Marsali seemed so in love when we first become aware of the relationship. Then they fade into the background popping out kids. He suddenly becomes a wife beater and is shipped off to be a printer? Hmmm? Will we see him in Echo? Will Marsali ever see her Mum again?
I don't think you could call him a 'wife-beater', she only had bruises from when Fergus was holding her back from bashing him! and we could call Jamie a wife-beater too! I thought that Marsali was going to be really fiery and passionate after the way she and Fergus married, but then ... nothing! It would be interesting to see how she interacts with her mother now that she's gotten close to Claire.
Renee wrote: "Of course her scheming to have Claire killed was wrong. I just marvel at the extra hate that L gets from Outlander readers. What about Dougal? He KNEW that Colum meant to kill Gellis and that was f..."I might be mistaken, but I thought that it was definately Dougal that set Geillie up to be burned as a witch. He didn't want anyone to know that he had been with her, and wanted to get rid of the baby.
???
No. Dougal told Colum about Gellie being pregnant and Colum said that he'd take care of her. Remember the conversation that Claire overheard and Claire thought it was L that Dougal was talking about?--
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I love Fergus. He did so much when Jamie first found him! He's managed to go from a child in a brothel to the proprieter of a print shop. Let's not forget that he earned that by losing his hand in Jamie's service. He had plenty of things going on and happening to him when he was a boy. I think he's earned some time to just be happy being a printer with all his family around him, and Marsali to keep him out of trouble.I find Fergus endlessly amusing. Quite a character. And Germaine is very much like his father was as a boy.
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I agree, Fergus is such an interesting character. I like his French snobbiness :o) I remember being displeased and frustrated with him in book 6 though - I hope he has more a redemption storyline in #7!
I love the courtroom scene when Fergus is interjecting his own opinions of his accuser. Well, I was vexed with Fergus as well. But then when Marsali said the 'wee French gomeral' was blaming himself for the attack on her, I felt differently. Up until then I just took it for granted that Fergus was coping well with not having his hand. Obviously he wasn't. Too many things happening at once to remind him.
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Fergus does have amusing moments, and a lot of stuff has happened to him, but that's just it, it's happened to him, I'd like to see him make something happen!
Part of me definitely feels bad for Fergus, because it must be hard not having a hand and not feeling like a big tough guy because he can't do any real manual labor. But at the same time the self-pity is just annoying, and I want to tell him to man up and just be happy with what he is lucky enough to have.
Well, but Shay Fergus does make things happen. He went from a parentless child living in a brothel to Jamie's right hand man. With his wits he set himself up nicely with Jamie. Jamie DID agree to care for him for life if he was maimed in service to Jamie. And he did some very, very dangerous pilfering of letters. He's been tuned to serving Jamie since he was a child and he never let Jamie down. Remember it was Fergus who got the deed of sassine back to Lallybroch before Culloden.I don't think he's spent much time in self-pity. Just ABOSAA. As more children came along he realized how incapable he was of what it took to support a family. That got him down. I'll give him that time. But, as we left him, he was very happy running his print shop and taking care of his family. And if it wasn't for his print shop they might not have found Bree.
I would personally love a sequel some day with Germain and Jemmy. Jemmy goes back through the stones and trouble follows. They could devil Uncle Ian as a nice revenge for Jamie.
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I like the idea of a book with Germain and Jem!
I love Fergus and even though his behaviour slipped at bit at times, I think he exhibits true human struggles. He seems to have worked through his issues and found his happy place as a printer.I love your idea of a book with Germain and Jem!
Maybe if Jamie goes back to printing in Scotland and Fergus continues in America they will establish a global publishing company!
Wendy wrote: "I think you say her name as LaGeery. It said it a couple of times in the books somewhere."According to the audio books it is pronounced Leerah. I know, totally not what you would think, lol
Hehehe, Diana talks about L.http://community.netscape.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=59953.503&nav=messages&webtag=ws-books
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Man, all of you make some great points. I have to say, that because we have all spent so much time with these charaters, at one time or another, I have hated and loved all of them. Examples of things that I have hated: Jamie being jealous and insecure about Loaghaire.
Claire always thinking that she is so hot. (even though she is)
DG for always talking about how huge Bree is. (it really makes it hard to picture her as such a beauty)
Roger and Bree for never saying what needs to be said.
Lord John for not really understanding what he is after with the Fraser Family.
Black Jack for raping Jamie. And then telling Claire all the sick details. Was he in love with his brother Alex?
I could go on and on.
Sarah wrote: "We all know who the characters are that we're crazy about. That's easy. But I was wondering who your least favorite characters are?For me, Bree is one of them. I like her independence and stren..."
Sarah, great idea for a post!
Leslie wrote: "Lizzie is the character I like the least as well. She always seemed a little too helpless and naive. I also thought it was just plain creepy that she married both the feral twin brothers. "I agree, i liked her so much up until that point, and then she kind of became selfish and unreasonable, and i would have never thought she would be stupid enough to keep having sex with both twins at the same time knowing the risks of getting pregnant. She was so sweet at first and now i can't think of her like that, she just seems stupid to me now.
Let's remind ourselves also that Jaime was about 22 and still a virgin at the time when he and Claire married and L Freaked out. He's a man, not superman. He didn't mean to hurt anyone, and yeah he may have led her on but not in a malicious way. But he loved Claire more right from the getco and that was it for him. He was young, not naive, but inexperienced with the intrigues of romance and how young women can be when their hearts are broken and their pride is smashed. L didn't love Jaime, and he didn't love her. So i say that yes, L's behavior was pretty despicable considering she was acting out of hurt pride and spite, and not a broken heart.
And as for what he did when Claire came back, he was scared. Trapped in a bad marriage with no way out, and then BAM!, here comes Claire back from the future after 20 years! The wife he still mourned for and loved all of the sudden back in his arms. He should have told her when she asked if he had other ties, but i can see why he didn't. He was just scared. If i've learned anything about him in these books, he's not really scared of much, not even death. But he is scared of losing Claire, to ANYTHING. Be it the future, death, or because he was married to someone else, even though that marriage was basically obsolete.
I don't care for Brianna. Mind, I've just recently finished Dragonfly but read Voyager and part of Fiery Cross. She just seems too my-way-or-no-way to me.And, I really don't care for Jenny. Not sure of any particulars but I just don't care for her.
Thanks Leslie!I did like Jenny... up until Echo. Now, I'm just not so sure. She was really frustrating to me.
Sarah wrote: "Thanks Leslie!I did like Jenny... up until Echo. Now, I'm just not so sure. She was really frustrating to me. "
I agree. I really liked her to begin with, but now i think she's grown much more bitter and just tired. You know, with worry for Ian and Young Ian as well. She treats Claire like everything is her fault. Not really fair.
Yes, I used to really like her but the way she treated Claire in Echo was uncalled for. I am afraid that she will really cause some trouble in the future being in America. She will be like the typical meddling, crazy in-law that you wish would go away but you have to put up with. It may make for some interesting story lines. I think it will be a big adjustment for Ian suddenly having his mom around to watch what he is doing.
Leslie wrote: "Yes, I used to really like her but the way she treated Claire in Echo was uncalled for. I am afraid that she will really cause some trouble in the future being in America. She will be like the t..."Yes and I also think that is another reason not to like Claire. Claire has been like a mother of sorts to young Ian.
I also wonder how Jenny will treat Rachel.
Yea, she might be a bit resentful to Claire because Claire's grown close to Young Ian. But I also think that she should be a bit grateful as well, to know that someone was looking after Ian and caring for him when he came back. If she's going to resent someone for being close to Young Ian, she should feel the same towards Jamie.I liked Jenny because she loves her family so fiercely, but her reasons for being mad at Claire are pretty thin. Claire's been back for a long time, and she and Jamie have both tried to explain that she left after Culloden because she thought he was dead. His marriage to Laoghaire was Jenny's own orchestrating, and she knew as soon as it happened that it wasn't a good idea. So her only reason to be angry at Claire is over Ian - which Jamie and Claire tried to explain that she couldn't do anything to heal him. Ugh.
I'm also disappointed that she left her home - she still has children there, whether they're grown or not, and I'm sure she could have been a help to them.
Leslie wrote: "I also wonder how Jenny will treat Rachel."LOL I would think that after his time with the Indians, Rachel should seem a blessing.
I agree that Jenny has been 'difficult' since Claire's return. However, if you think about her own psychic experience during Jamie and Laoghaire's wedding, and her subsequent guilt when Claire returns--It makes sense. I think Jenny has been underestimated, and that she would understand about Claire, given the chance. Ian suspects, Young Ian knows, and there is a lot of hiding information from Jenny. No wonder she is angry! She's working in the dark. (She knows something from Claire pre-Culloden, when she is told to plant potatoes.) I am hopeful that when they are all in America, that this relationship will be resolved with Jenny in on the story of Claire.
Also, with Jamie 'dreaming' about his grandchildren in the 20th century, and Jenny's psychic experience, maybe she also has 'heard' the stones...
Hmmm. Jenny as a time-traveler. That'd be interesting!
I don't know about that, Jenny as a time-traveler just doesn't really make sense or feel right to me. Because she would be at such a disadvantage you know, just like Jaime would be. Can you imagine Jaime in the 20th century? i surely can't, his skills and bravery and integrity, not to mention his intensity and fierceness, would not have much use or place in the 20th century. It's very sad, i think that those traits in men have been lost and it's really a bummer. Mens original role and value as the protector and provider had merit in the 18th century, but now that role has become under-valued and useless, being that women are much more able to take care of themselves and do what they want. I'm not saying thats a bad thing, but it really is too bad that there aren't men like Jaime walking around the 20th century. I wish there were.
Roles have definitely shifted but I don't think they are deemed as undervalued and useless...not everyone believes being independent means abandoning being feminine or masculine. On a superficial level it is easy to say men like Jamie don't exist but on a more intimate level,there are A LOT of men like Jamie walking around. They may not have that Scottish growl and they may not call you lassie when they are grabbing your buttocks and burning you with their fiery sword but be damn sure they are just as intense and fierce and still value integrity and bravery. Isn't that part of the draw of these books? Surely some of you see traits of Jamie in your men??? They may brandish a power tool and a tool belt instead of a dirk or shield, but the essential raw qualities that make Jamie so attractive are definitely still there. Many men are mighty protective and still value the differences between masculine and feminine. In the Voyager, Claire had this conversation with Jamie when discussing Bree's independence vs a need of a man. Bree doesn't need a man to pay her bills but she still has a need and a want. Roger is not a warrior but he still possesses those masculine traits. A man like Jamie is gonna be walking around looking for his Claire. We all have or can find a little wee bit of Claire in us, no?
Susan wrote: "Roles have definitely shifted but I don't think they are deemed as undervalued and useless...not everyone believes being independent means abandoning being feminine or masculine. On a superficial l..."You know what, you're right. That;s very true. i guess it's just not so obvious as it was back in the day.
Carol wrote: "Also, with Jamie 'dreaming' about his grandchildren in the 20th century, and Jenny's psychic experience, maybe she also has 'heard' the stones..."
I don't think I meant that Jenny'd be a time traveler, but that she may have more knowledge and understanding of those that do, do to her apparant psychic ability. Once she has had some time to grieve for Ian, I think that she may be more receptive to Claire, and interested in having some experience of the world. She talks wistfully about not having been farther than 5 miles from Lallybroch in one of the earlier books, and I think she is looking for some adventure in her life now that her children are grown and she does not have to be tied to the farm.
I agree with Susan whole-heartedly about the roles concept. My husband is a "suit" by day, but is an avid hunter, rugby player and outdoor enthusiast. I LOVE that "man" side to him, even when it infuriates me (as it did Claire from time to time). And the fact that my guy seems to be as loyal and dedicated as Jamie (well, almost - who REALLY is?), makes Jamie and my husband that much sexier to me. Good stuff!
Kelly wrote: "I think the main thing is she has slept with Jamie and we are all jealous!! I am !!!"Oh yeah. Totally jealous! The same reason I dislike that twit Geneva. Silly undeserving girl.
Carol wrote: "Carol wrote: "Also, with Jamie 'dreaming' about his grandchildren in the 20th century, and Jenny's psychic experience, maybe she also has 'heard' the stones..."
I don't think I meant that Jenny'..."
I agree. Jenny's kids are grown and now it's her chance to finally get out and see the world.
When she and Jamie are in Paris, she can't contain her excitement.
I also think that while the Frasers(Jenny and Jamie) are undoubtedly psychic, they are not time travelers.
Brianna is definitely my least favourite, for all the reasons listed here and also because she just annoys me all around.... the way large groups of teenage girls at the mall annoy me. She's indirect, aloof, insincere, and just silly. I realize she's young and she does have her good qualities, but it does not make up for it. I hate the way she treats Roger, and I have no idea what he sees in her - even I knew what a good man was at that age, and she actually likes him!?! She does not deserve him. I am only reading DOA - he just went though the stones and the next chapter focuses on her – so I’m putting it aside for the night. I am just not interested in her, and would rather watch the episode of Heroes that I missed yesterday (because Jamie was in the woods with William and I was loving every page of it). I have a sneaking suspicion that she is not one of Diana's favourite characters even though she would never admit to such a thing (she does say that she conjured up because of necessity to the story, not one who just “was” like some other main characters)…... and I think I can tell. Her character could have been much more likeable if she wasn't such a twit (sorry, I know I keep using that word, but that sums it up for me). Thanks for letting me vent
Eva wrote: "Brianna is definitely my least favourite, for all the reasons listed here and also because she just annoys me all around.... the way large groups of teenage girls at the mall annoy me. She's indire..."I've never admitted this until now, but I don't like Brianna. It's selfish, but I don't like any characters that take the focus off of Jamie and Claire. I can't explain why; I'm not sure I even have a reason.
Scare wrote: "Eva wrote: "Brianna is definitely my least favourite, for all the reasons listed here and also because she just annoys me all around.... the way large groups of teenage girls at the mall annoy me. ..."I'm having a hard time with Bree as well.. I wouldn't say I hate her, but she certainly isn't my fave. I love Roger though...
I love Roger! That's partly why I'm annoyed with her. She leads him on, keeps him hanging, and then leaves through the stones without saying a word. She knows he loves her... c'mon how selfish can you get? I realize she was trying to "protect" him by not saying anything but it just doesn't fly with me. I'll take him.... she does not deserve him.I did love it when she told leghair off!
Eva wrote: "Brianna is definitely my least favourite, for all the reasons listed here and also because she just annoys me all around.... the way large groups of teenage girls at the mall annoy me. She's indire..."At first I didn't like Bree as much either but I have grown to like her because her strong will reminds me of Jaime. I think her character has developed quite a bit now that she is no longer an afterthought but a main character.
I'd have to say Roger was my least favourite for a long time. He seemed like such a wimp. He couldn't quite do right by anything. I like him more now because he seems to have developed a back bone.
My least favourite character is Lord John. I really don't like him.
Yes, I'm told that Bree develops later.. but I am half way through DOA, and so far, I'm not impressed. Diana calls her the "hard nut" character because it took her a lot longer to 'crack' and for Diana to figure her out.
Ok everyone. I have a question for you. I absolutely LOVE this series, as all of you do. Couldn't put it down for anything..and am dying in agony because we have to wait 3 years for the next book to come out. So, because of my love, I have suggested the books to many of my friends, one of which has been reading the series. She just finished DOA. She absolutely LOATHES Claire and has since book #1. I mean, really and truly hates her. Can't stand her thoughts, can't stand anything about her. My friend thinks she's selfish, a no-it-all, and always getting in everyone's business. Now, I've never heard of anyone hating Claire...so I'm curious if anyone here doesn't like her, or had moments when they didn't like her. I'm blinded by how much I adore her, and her relationship with Jamie, so every time my friend speaks badly of her, I get into defensive mode! HA! Anyway, just wanted your thoughts....
Rachel, thats a hard question to answer... because sometimes, to me, Claire is annoying and does come off as a bit of know it all. But then I kinda wonder, am I just being jealous??? ( i mean dont we all kinda wish we were Claire??) and honestly, how many doctors have you met that didnt think they knew it all? Another thing to consider, in these books I put myself as Claire, so I guess I never considered whether or not I should dislike Claire. I mean, do we ever consider whether we like ourselves??? we just assume we do (for the most part anyways.)
LOL Kelly, good point!
No matter what, Loaghaire isn't one of my least favorite characters- mainly because she's someone that I enjoy disliking. The chapters with her in them are never dull, and I can marvel at her madness. However, she falls into the same category as other baddies to me, like the French Comte guy, or Bonnet - hating them just goes without saying.