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Post 1945 Conflicts
message 401:
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Mike, Assisting Moderator US Forces
(last edited Oct 08, 2020 06:01AM)
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Oct 08, 2020 05:59AM
Heard on the radio that Gail Halverson, The Candy Bomber, will turn 100 this coming Saturday. What a guy Happy Birthday!
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Watched, "Intimate Enemies" (2007), last night and it is a brutal French film that takes place during the late 50's in Algeria. A young officer is posted to a front line unit in a mountainous area and has conflicts with it's Indochina veteran platoon sergeant and the Intel office who was part of the French Resistance in WWII who both have their own methods of fighting the Algerian rebels. The more atrocities the young Lt. witnesses he slowly loses his ideals about how to fight the enemy by the rules of regular warfare. The cinematography and battle scenes are stunning and it was filmed in Morocco and France.
Doubledf99.99 wrote: "Watched, "Intimate Enemies" (2007), last night and it is a brutal French film that takes place during the late 50's in Algeria. A young officer is posted to a front line unit in a mountainous area ..."Its a great movie, I have a copy on DVD and have watched it a number of times. Glad to hear you enjoyed it as much as I did.
"L'ennemi intime":
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0825248/...
Jonny wrote: "Making a start on the immediately post-45
Savage Continent: Europe in the Aftermath of World War II"I hope it a good account as I think I have an unread copy somewhere :)
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Doubledf99.99 wrote: "Watched, "Intimate Enemies" (2007), last night and it is a brutal French film that takes place during the late 50's in Algeria. A young officer is posted to a front line unit ..."It's been shown a few time on the movie channel, and I watch it every time I get the chance. Great movie.
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Jonny wrote: "Making a start on the immediately post-45[book:Savage Continent: Europe in the Aftermath of World War II..."Me too.
Picked this up at the USO bookrack last fall, finally getting around to reading it. A Bright Shining Lie: John Paul Vann and America in Vietnam
Neil Sheehan
Doubledf99.99 wrote: "Picked this up at the USO bookrack last fall, finally getting around to reading it. A Bright Shining Lie: John Paul Vann and America in Vietnam [bookcover:A Bright Shining Lie: John P..."I hope you enjoy it as much as I did, I rate it as one of my favourite books on the Vietnam War.
I'm now about 75 some odd pages in and it's shaping up to be one of my favorites.
I found this to be an excellent book. So good that I’ve read it twice!
Bought today: "Leadership In The Crucible" by Kenneth Hamburger which discusses the U.S. 23rd Infantry and its attached French Battalion at the Battle of Twin Tunnels and Chipyong-ni in February, 1951.
Sounds like a pretty interesting book Lawrence, best let us all know how you go once you have finished reading it.
Leadership in the Crucible: The Korean War Battles of Twin Tunnels and Chipyong-ni by Kenneth Earl Hamburger
Falkland Islands Declared Mine-Free After 10-year Effort, Four Decades After End Of Warhttps://www.warhistoryonline.com/news...
Gregg wrote: "Falkland Islands Declared Mine-Free After 10-year Effort, Four Decades After End Of Warhttps://www.warhistoryonline.com/news......"
Very interesting news article Gregg, thanks for posting the link.
My copy of this book arrived today, don't think I will get around to reading it till sometime in 2021:
In the Year of the Tiger: The War for Cochinchina, 1945–1951 by William M. Waddell
WoW! Finished up with Sheehan's fine book, A Bright Shining Lie, and it was a great one. I must say the maps that came with book where top notch, I believe all the place's mentioned in the book where on the 4 pages of maps so it was easy to follow along with Vann's travels. My only quibble is I would've have liked to have seen along with the appendices at the back of the book a page of Acronyms for quick reference, there was a big bowl of alphabet cereal throughout this great read.
Doubledf99.99 wrote: "WoW! Finished up with Sheehan's fine book, A Bright Shining Lie, and it was a great one. I must say the maps that came with book where top notch, I believe all the place's mentioned in the book whe..."Really glad to hear you enjoyed the book, it has to rank as one of the classics on the Vietnam War.
Yea it is, here's a nice link to a series of interview's Sheehaan gave on C-Span detailing the book. https://www.c-span.org/video/?4281-1/...
A superb book when read with Tuchman just highlights the folly of the war. Vann certainly lived a number of lives
He sure did, one of his sayings was "Odds don't apply to me", or something along those lines.
Petty Officer Michael Thornton: Quite Possibly the Baddest Man in the Entire Worldhttps://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/pe...
Gregg wrote: "Petty Officer Michael Thornton: Quite Possibly the Baddest Man in the Entire Worldhttps://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/pe......"
Thornton lives near me. I heard him speak at a banquet a few years ago. Like most genuine heroes he was self-effacing, modest, not cocky, not a braggart. The host read Thornton's MOH citation as way of introduction. The man was one hell of a warrior.
Manray9 wrote: "Gregg wrote: "Petty Officer Michael Thornton: Quite Possibly the Baddest Man in the Entire Worldhttps://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/pe......"
If you ever get a chance to meet him again say, "Thank you for your service!" for me.
À propos the conversation above about 'A Bright Shining Lie'- if anyone would like more background & context for not only Mr. Sheehan's coverage of the war in Viet Nam, but also that of his friends & colleagues Malcolm W. Browne, David Halberstam and Peter Arnett, I highly recommend William Prochnau's extraordinarily well-written Once Upon a Distant War: Young War Correspondents And The Early Vietnam Battles. One of the best books I've ever read...
Private RobinsonI’m reading Breakout, The Chosin Reservoir Campaign Korea 1950 and I’m really enjoying it. It’s about time 1ST MARINE division commanding officer OP Smith, was awarded the MOH! His insubordination to the X Corps CO Ned Almond saved the 1st MAR DIV.
I love stories like this eye witness account of private Stanley Robinson of whom his Platoon Commander, lieutenant Yancy called the platoon delinquent. Stateside, Robbie had been AWOL repeatedly and was considered incorrigible. The Division was under strength when the war broke out so Robbie was offered the classic choice: The brig or the infantry.
“Talking with him at Hagaru I learned he went AWOL because he had this kid wife and they had a baby and there were problems. His first piece of good luck was getting assigned to Yancy’s Platoon. Yancy was about the toughest Marine you could find anywhere, but he was kindhearted to people that needed a bit of kindness. He talked with Robinson for about 5 minutes and got to know him better than all the all the Navy psychiatrists who had been trying to figure him out for months...it was the case of a
Lost soul finding something he was good at in a life that hadn’t had much purpose up to then; because the truth is, he wasn’t much good at anything else. I heard I later years he was killed in a shoot out with Colorado State troopers.
Robinson had already distinguished himself on hill 698. In fact shooting his BAR from the hip and throwing grenades. In fact, the Battalion commander came down to recruit Robinson as his bodyguard.
Yancy and his troops thought they had seen the last of Robinson and were sorry to see him go; but it turns out that Stanley Robinson would go AWOL one more time.
Corpsman James Claypool: “Yancy and I were wondering how private Stanley Robinson was doing back at Regiment as Litzenberg’s bodyguard. ...this youngster might be unable to restrain the wild streak in him. This was a kid that was considered such a badass he had to be brought on ship under guard...well guess who came toiling up the hill late that afternoon? We were glad to see him and his BAR but I noticed he was limping and I got him to sit down and take off his boots even before he reported to Mr. Yancy.
Robinson of course tried to give me a hard time. I looked him in the eye and said ‘are you going to argue with me?’ He thought it over and finally unlaced his boots. I was shocked by what I saw. The skin between his toes was raw and the skin on his ankles too. There was infection . He had the equivalent of second and third burns. He was virtually crippled with frostbite. ‘You’re going back down the hill’ I told him.
Robinson: “The hell I am.”
Corpsman: “Robinson ...”
Robinson: “Don’t fuck with me swabbie.”
In the end I had to go tell Yancy...I told Yancy that Robinson’s feet were beyond my resources to treat, that he would probably have to be evacuated....‘Robbie I’m glad to see you’ he said ‘but you’re going to have to go back down the hill and turn yourself into battalion Aid...’’Robinson was so angry he didn’t even say goodbye. We watched him limp down the back trail. We were all disappointed.”
Private Stanley Robinson lay disgruntled and footsore on a stretcher. Listening to the distant sound of battle
Wondering how Easy Company was doing.
An ambulance pulled up outside; litter bearers brought in a stretcher and put a wounded man down beside him.
Robinson: what outfit you with?
Wounded man: “Easy Company, 7th”
Robinson: “They got hit pretty good?”
Wounded man: “Clobbered...Mr Yancy’s been hit but he’s still going.”
Robinson sat up. In the darkness of the tent he began to pull on his boots, grunting with pain as he stuffed his swollen feet into the stiff show packs. It took several minutes to do the job. At last he stood up, pulled on his dirty parka and went stumbling through the tent flaps. Outside he snatched up a rifle and cartridge belt from the pile of discards. A corpsman appeared. “Where do you think your going Robinson.”
Robinson: “what does it look like, Doc?”
Corpsman: “Go back inside.”
Robinson: “Get the fuck out of my way.”
The scrawny youngster slung the rifle and tottered toward the big hill like an old man. An hour later, having been forced to crawl up the steeper portions of the path, he was asking for directions to 1st platoon.
Marine: “Top of the hill over there.”
Robinson: “Seen Mr. Yancy?”
Marine: “He’s been hit twice but still at it.”
Yancy was hunched beside a machine gunner. He felt a sharp slap on the bottom of his boot. I looked down and there he was, with his off kilter grin, looking sloppier and dirtier than ever.
Yancy: “What the hell are you doing here?”
Robinson: “ I heard you candyassed pogues needed help.’
Yancy: “I’ll be damned. “
Robinson: “You got any work for a BAR man?”
Yancy pointed to the right. “See those kids over there?” Go square them away.
Great post SW, that Robinson sounds like the bloke you need when you are in a tight situation!
Rick, I’m loving this book. The author, Martin Russ, is very pro-Marine and anti-Dog Face. I just checked to see that Martin Russ himself was a Marine and won a Purple Heart in Korea. I’m on page 360. The Breakout and Marine concentration at Hagaru just happened. The 5th and 7th Marines that fought their way down from Yudam-ni and Tektong pass have just marched south into Hagaru and Martin Russ explains it:Hagaru was not yet in site but the Marines at the head of the long column could now see the pillars of smoke from the smoldering fires there, evidence of the battle the night before.
It was close to 7pm the evening of December 3rd, when they came within sight of the of the checkpoint at the north end of the Hagaru perimeter. There was a feeling of tension and excitement in the air.
“They’re Coming”
General Smith: “From the command post I could clearly hear the noise of the approaching vehicles.”
At the very point of the long column walked two Lieutenant colonels, Davis and Dowsett. The latter had just received a radio message from the operations manager and Hagaru, stiffly warning him to halt outside the checkpoint and identify himself properly, giving the correct password and waiting to be properly recognized before advancing. Dowsett replied coldly, “I have no idea what the password is. We’re coming straight in. Don’t get in our way.”
As word of the imminent approach of the 5th and 7th Marines flashed around the perimeter, the remnant of the Royal Marine Commando darted out in perfect order to drive the Chinese off the hill nearest the checkpoint, lest the reunion be marred by by additional casualties....
Five hundred yards north of the perimeter, the trucks ground to a halt. Those of the frost bitten and wounded that could do so climbed down to the ground and formed up on the bleak, snow blown roadway.
“You people will now shape up and look sharp, “ Shouted Davis. “We’re going in like United States Marines.”
One of the sergeants began calling cadence in the distinctive Paris Island manner, a haunting, stirring sound to anyone who has been through Marine boot camp. There in the early dark began to march forward, haggard and hard, their shoe-pacs pounding in slow relentless rhythm.
Colonel Bowser stuck his head in the bungalow and invited General OP Smith to come outside. “It’s quite a site” he promised. A moment later Smith was standing on the step, puffing his pipe, watching the column approach.
Davis: “By the time we reached the checkpoint we were parade ground Marines - stepping smartly, backs strait, heads up, marching in perfect unison, singing the Marines’ Hymn.”
PFC George Crotts: “Later on a guy told me some of us looked like zombies. I told
Him that’s because some of us were zombies. The dead Marines on the trucks you see, when they heard the Marine drill sergeant calling cadence, they came to life and climbed down to join the ranks. Semper Fidelis is strong medicine; It means ‘Always Faithful.’ Tell you one thing: You could definitely feel the spirit of those that had gone ahead. As we like to say, they were there with us.”
Early in the morning of December 5th LT. Colonel Murray called a meeting of his battalion commanders and staff and delivered a stirring exhortation. “We’re going to hold our present position until the 7th Marines clear the road to Koto-ri. When the time comes for us to March, we’re coming out like Marines, not like stragglers. This is not a retreat. There are more Chinese between us and the sea than there are north of us. General Smith said it best; we’re attacking in a different direction. Any officer that doubts our ability to break out had better catch himself a case of frostbite and I’ll see that he’s evacuated. We’re coming out like Marines.”Later Murray was talking to a reporter: you should of been with us at Yudam-ni you would of gotten a hell of a story out there...”
“We got out of Yudam-ni didn’t we? If we get out of there we can get out of here.”
Murray than revealed something to the reporter he hadn’t mentioned to anyone else “I didn’t think we could do it,” he said, and he began to talk about the Yudam ni breakout, he wiped tears away with the dirty sleeve of his parka.
was almost dark, PFC James G Collins, Able/7 was trying to scrape out a foxhole for himself when he saw a young Marine carrying a sea bag and a brand new BAR up the hill. He stopped to ask Buddy Jameson a question and Jameson turned and pointed at Collins. “Up comes this clean shaven kid with a big grin and I nearly had a stroke because it was my own brother, Edmond. After we embraced and pounded each other on the back, he told me he was AWOL. Instead of reporting to Baker Company 1st Marines, he had climbed aboard a plane bound for Hagaru so he could be with me. I was very glad to see him, but this AWOL business worried me because he was serious trouble.”James took him over to his platoon leader, LT. Bobby Bradley. “This here’s my older brother, sir and he’s AWOL from the 1st Marines.
“Very good said The LT. “We need every man we can get. He’ll join your fire team, Collins. You’re short a man aren’t you?”
Collins asked the officer if he thought there was some kind of disciplinary action in store for Edmon.
“I doubt it,” said LT Bradley. “He didn’t go AWOL in the face of the enemy, after all - he went AWOL to face the enemy. Big difference.”
He didn’t wake his little brother up when it was his turn for watch. That was the kind of brother he was.
Note#. A few pages later the big brother is killed during the breakout from Hagaru shot by a sniper when he threw a can of C-Rats to a fellow Marine.
All great posts SW, really glad to hear you are enjoying the book. You will be happy to learn that I have an unread copy of "Breakout" by Martin Russ in my library. I will try and get around to reading it sometime soon.
Breakout is an easy read. I’m having more fun posting the interesting anecdotes to my friends that I can’t finish it. One thing: Martin Russ is awful hard on the Army. But the Marines do have a certain esprit de Corps that the Army simply doesn’t have and it was never more evident than in Korea in 1950.
The Breakout from Hagaru-ri to Koto-ri At daybreak on December 7 the column was abruptly halted by a concentration of enemy fire from the heights to the east. During a lull it became apparent that the Chinese were about to launch an infantry assault against a segment of the column occupied by the guns and crews of George and How Batteries. Major James Calender and Captains Ernest Payne and Benjamin Read lost no time unlimbering and preparing for action. Trucks were jockeyed back and forth so that the muzzles of the 9 howitzers could be thrust between them, while crewmen passed boxes of shells over the tail gates and others carried them to the guns. The stage was set for an unusual confrontation: a fight to the finish between an infantry battalion and two batteries of artillery.
Now that it was broad daylight, the men of sergeant Russell Runes Machine Gun section watched as Chinese troops began to mass on the other side of the railroad tracks. Captain Read ordered him to bring his troops back to the road where Captain Payne was organizing truck drivers into a firing line.
Major Francis Parry: “It was none too soon. Individual Chinese were already sticking their heads above the embankment embankment or jumping up for a better look.”
The gun crews began to fire shells straight across the railroad embankment, stopping the Chinese as they began to flow onto the tracks. There had been no time to dig in the gun trails, so the men of each howitzer crew braced themselves against the gun shield, absorbing part of the recoil with their bodies and helping to keep the guns in position for the next shot. After every 4th or 5th round the gunners would push the pieces forward again and resume blasting away at the oncoming troops. There was no time to sort ammunition; crewmen were shoving whatever variety of shell was at hand into the breeches - high explosive, armor piercing, white phosphorus, canister- firing at targets so close they were at time endangered by shrapnel from their own shells. Neither was their time to set fuses or count propellant charges; there was only time to shoot, clear, load, and shoot again. The scene was appallingly grim: a mass dismemberment or vaporization of human beings in padded quilt.
When it was all over the Marines counted more than 500 shattered corpses on the field of battle. How and George batteries had fired more than 600 rounds. Three Marine crewmen had been killed, thirty four wounded.
Major Parry: “Has field artillery ever had a grander hour?”
Another great post SW!
Thanks Rick. Writing up my review now. This one is a "can't miss" unless you are an Army dog face, Russ was a little tough on the Army but in this campaign they just weren't worth a darn.
Reading again Edward Wilson's powerful novel of Viet Nam, "A River in May". " The white phosphorus spewed plumes of white billows on and around the hill as they ran towards the bamboo thicket. He thought it oddly pretty: the barrage of white phosphorus was decorating the hill with white floss, like an insane wedding cake."Wilson, Edward. A River in May (p. 203). Arcadia Books Limited. Kindle Edition. A River in May
Edward Wilson
I wrote a review
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
But if you read all the excerpts you probably do not need to read the review because I was able to work in all them in the review. I loved the book. Get it and read it.
Great review SW, I will definitely try and read my copy sometime soon.
Hi AllI'm not sure if it fits into this topic or not but one book that I found fascinating is:
Armed Truce (The Beginnings of the Cold War 1945-46) by Hugh Thomas (Sceptre Books).
This is not so much conflict as the story of how WWII morphed into the Cold War so it's more political that military. It's pretty heavy going at times but it does throw light on why the USA became so 'Commie' paranoid in the 1950s, because the Comintern spent huge effort and resources infiltrating political movements, trade unions and governments all over Europe, as well as running disinformation campaigns on a huge scale.
It also discusses the West's responses to this silent infiltration the creation of NATO and the UN, or at least the germs of those concepts (from memory – it's a while since I read it).
The book was very extensively researched. It has 761 pages of narrative, 28 pages of appendices, 115 pages of notes and a further 45 pages of index!
If you're interested in how and why politics and conflicts in the second half of the 20th century developed, this goes a long way to explaining it.
Sounds like a very interesting book Gary, thanks for the information.
Armed Truce: The Beginnings of the Cold War, 1945-46 by Hugh Thomas
Similar ground was covered in Keith Lowe's Savage Continent: Europe in the Aftermath of World War II; with additional commentary on the mess Europe was kn at the start of the Cold War, and the unpreparedness of the Allies. There's also a more partisan effort with Anne Applebaum's Iron Curtain: The Crushing of Eastern Europe, 1944-56.
Jonny wrote: "Similar ground was covered in Keith Lowe's Savage Continent: Europe in the Aftermath of World War II; with additional commentary on the mess Europe was kn at the sta..."I've read Applebaum's book and have a copy of Lowe's unread.
message 444:
by
Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces
(new)
Thanks Gary, that's one for me - and my Olympus Mons size TBR!
Just finished reading The Regiments Depart.Here is my review:-
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Rupert wrote: "Just finished reading The Regiments Depart.Here is my review:-
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."
Nice review Rupert, thanks for sharing your thoughts with the group.
I've just started reading this book on the Algerian War; "Algeria: France's Undeclared War". It will be interesting to see how it compares to Alistair Horne's marvellous account; "A Savage War of Peace".
Algeria: France's Undeclared War by Martin Evans
Currently reading "The First Division and the US Army Transformed: Road To Victory in Desert Storm 1970-1991" by Col. Gregory Fontenot US Army (Ret).
This is a topic of interest. I’ll have to see what Horne had to say about it. I’m interested in what you have to say about this one.
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I've just started reading this book on the Algerian War; "Algeria: France's Undeclared War". It will be interesting to see how it compares to Alistair Horne's marvellous account; "A Savage War of P..."AR: I read Horne's book and look forward to your comments on Evans'.
THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP
Books mentioned in this topic
The Angel of Dien Bien Phu: The Lone French Woman at the Decisive Battle for Vietnam (other topics)The Korean War: 1945-1954 (other topics)
Korea: War Without End (other topics)
The Vietnam War: A Military History (other topics)
The Angel of Dien Bien Phu: The Lone French Woman at the Decisive Battle for Vietnam (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Allan Reed Millett (other topics)Allan Reed Millett (other topics)
Richard Dannatt (other topics)
Geoffrey Wawro (other topics)
David W. Cameron (other topics)
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